Birthing at Home: A Podcast

Second generation homebirth, first time mum has a homebirth || Amy's birth of Elliot at home (Queensland)

Elsie Season 2 Episode 71

This is the 71st episode and is shared by Amy living on Turrbul &  Yugara country in QLD.

As you’ll hear more of in this episode, Amy herself is a fraternal twin and was born at home many moons ago. So in a way, she was born to homebirth! Which she did and shares in this episode, with the birth story of  her first baby, Elliot. 

Amy shares with us her pregnancy journey, a bit about her own birth story and of course the beautiful birth of Elliot. 

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www.birthingathome.com.au

@birthingathome_apodcast
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Welcome to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys, a doula in Melbourne supporting birth at home. I'm a mental health nurse and the co-creator of Home Birth Victoria. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast, or my work, check out www.birthingathome.com.au. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Ngaam, Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. This is the 71st episode and it's shared by Amy living on terrible and Yagara country. As you'll hear more of in this episode, Amy herself is a twin and was born at home many moons ago. So in a way she was born to birth at home. which she did and she shares in this episode with the birth story of her first baby, Elliot. Amy shares with us her pregnancy journey, a bit about her own birth story and of course the beautiful birth of Elliot. Enjoy. Welcome Amy to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for joining me very last minute. um I feel like honored with how you found out about this recording that your friend like said you a screenshot and was like, you should do it. Obviously it's the very last minute recording. So I'm very grateful that you're here. Can you start off by introducing yourself to the listeners a little bit about who you are, where you're located, who's in your family, that type of thing? Yeah, cool. So I'm Amy. I have my husband Nathan and we have our little boy Elliot who was born nine months ago. born at home. and yeah, we live in Slex Creek in Queensland. Yeah. Cool. I was looking, when you said Slex Creek, was like, where is that? But it's kind of like north of Brisbane? Yeah. Yeah. Kinda? Yeah. Sure. Location. Yeah. Just pausing here because if you are from Brisbane, you will know that Slex Creek is not. North of Brisbane, it is in South Brisbane. So apologies for anyone there. We know that this was an error. Now you can continue with the rest of the episode. Yeah, cool. And yeah, I supposed to start off with, I usually ask everybody this, but like, how did you find out find out about Home Birth? Like, did you know about it growing up? Like, what was that journey like for you? I did. um I was actually a home birth baby myself. what? That's very cool. Yeah. So I'm actually, think it's paternal. I always get mixed up. Paternal twin. Oh, okay. So twin birth, this is going back because I'm 28. So I'm going back almost 30 years. um The twin birth at home sort of rules and things were a little bit different back then, I guess. Yes. Yeah, my mom and my dad, at the time we're living in Binnebara, at the top of Beechmont. Okay, it's a big mountain. It takes a while to get up to the top. So she kind of figured with two of my older siblings or three technically at home, that it would just be a bit easier with appointments and things like that to have us at home. wow. Yeah. So she had a private midwife who would come and do the home visits with her. yeah, it was a pretty crazy story actually, out of my birth. Yeah. So it depends on how much time we have. Yeah, please tell me, tell me. So my brother was born first. And mum said that she sort of got those labor pains that just came on pretty quickly with him and she sort of looked at my dad and said like, he's coming and you're going to have to catch him. Wow. Yeah. The story goes that it was a cricket dive to save him. To catch. Oh my gosh. His umbilical cord was like a bungee jump cord. Wow. That's how fast he came out. um But probably because I was actually forcing him out, I was a surprise breach. Oh wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, it can happen. It's quite common in second twins. Yeah. So I pretty much forced him out and then it was about 20 minutes between the time that he was born and I was born. Yeah. Which is really crazy because it was actually February the 28th. So my brother was born before midnight. Wow. after midnight. Oh my gosh. So we have different birthdays, technically. What? That is crazy. So I'm March the 1st and he's February 28th. Oh my gosh. So we're a day apart. What? Oh my gosh, that is so weird. Oh my goodness. So what the heck? Like, what did you do for birthdays? We actually don't celebrate them. Okay. don't celebrate them, but yeah, it's been funny. You know, you get those texts from your mom on the day like, I remember this day. What? Like, which day do I tell them? When do I send the text? my gosh. They always accepted that we were born on different days. And so it was like, we each got our own day and what certificates they kind of even refuted it at the hospital. put both of us down for March 1st and they said no, it's like, change it please. It's actually yeah. the first year that literally has given me chills. That is so cool. What the hell, I was not expecting you to tell that story. So twins at home and then like, wow, oh my gosh. What? then so it was like a little bit more because it did start to get a little bit hairy. I swallowed a bit of like fluid on my way out and they had the oxygen tank and everything like that to sort of pump the fluid out, but I wasn't taking over like manually breathing by myself. So they called a care flight helicopter to come to the top of mountain and airlift me to hospital that was going be the closest way. they knew all of this because down the road from us there lived an ambulance officer. He heard that mom was in labor, they're all close up there, know. So he had come to check out how the birth was going and when it started, when the complications arose with me, being breach, he sort of stepped in and uh he actually, it's so crazy. the weeks before or something had had a refresher course on how to dislodge the shoulder of a breach baby. He stepped in and he delivered me. And that was just the craziest thing. And then yeah, and then I was airlifted because I hadn't taken over the breathing room. Yeah. But Yeah, and they had like a whole newspaper article dedicated to like they honored him. fire department honored him. And then it's so funny, his wife like literally like a week or so ago reached out to me to sort of just ask how I was and sent me like the newspaper clipping and that like It's so cool. So cool. haven't gotten a chance to like thank him in person, but I told her I would really love to. Yeah. Oh my gosh. What a story. That's not even, that's not even, um, like your own like labor birth story. Holy moly. is so cool. What? And like, it's funny because I think some people would think that that is a reason not to give birth at home is because that crazy. that's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But to me, that's just what birth sounded like was just you did it at home and it all worked out okay. And I'm very fortunate that it did obviously. I'm still here. Yeah. Almost 30 years later, but that is wild because like, yeah, 30 years ago. I mean, that's like, um, you know, if you go back, say, m a hundred years, I don't know what it actually is, but say a hundred years, like hospital births were not like, like everyone, like 99 % of women are having hospital births these days, but like a hundred years ago, those stats would have been so significantly different. But now, you know, 2025, like home birth is kind of this like thing that only like hippies or like very rich people do. It's, know, one or the other. It's kind of, yeah, at the extremes. Yeah. Holy moly. What a story. Wow. So home birth, like, did you ever think that you would give birth in a hospital or did you just grow up thinking that if everything's going fine, I'll give birth at home? Yeah. Yeah, no, I just yeah, healthy mom, healthy baby. I just yeah, that's what I believed. You just gave birth at home. Yeah. My mom had had all the four brothers total three who were separate births, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah, All born in hospitals. And she sort of had that gateway experience of like each birth, she got closer and closer to being she was all natural births. But um the doctor that she had with my my slightly older brothers was a bit closer to home birth. Yeah, quite like he advocated a lot for Yeah, like undisturbed births. Yeah. And so yeah, I think she kind of did go well, I probably could do this unassisted sort of at home. Yeah. But yeah, no, it is really cool that that was my introduction to it. And yeah, just to be able to grow up my whole life sort of thinking that that's how babies are brought into the world. And yeah, talking about it with, you know, friends as we grow up and the friend who recommended the me coming on here. Yeah, she she is very familiar with home births. A lot of her siblings are home births. She is 11. Wow, Yeah, really cool. And so we would often discuss what future births would look like at home. And yeah, yeah. I did probably as well, like I had this sort of moment of like you talked about like, millionaires are the only ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was probably that moment where I just sort of discovered how sort of expensive birthing at home with a private life was going to be. And I maybe started to sort of doubt that experience and whether I was going to be able to. it. And I really felt it slipping through my fingers. Because I just hadn't even really talked about cost with my husband. So it's really scared to bring it up once I did find out. Yeah. And right around that sort of time, the same friend who names a wish, by the way, she had told me about Born at Home, film. Yeah. ah And it hadn't quite been released yet. but very fortunately for us, the release was happening in New Farm, which is pretty close to me. So um yeah, she said, well, let's go. Wow. Her and my mum and I, we all went to that. That was the premiere. Yeah. And I walked out of it just like, I'm giving birth at home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the empowerment I needed and it was just so awesome. And so like, it gives me goosebumps to think, but my, my home birthing midwife was actually there at that point. What? my gosh. Hadn't started quite just looking into it yet because I was pregnant. Yeah. Pretty early. m And I think I even remember seeing her and just sort of thinking like, she's got such a kind face. Yeah. And then to like it, the stars aligned when I actually got onto her one of her sort of like her second midwife that she often calls on. got onto her first literally just by like looking at the born at home tagged photos. I think I found Rachel was the the other midwife. Yeah, and I messaged her through her like email contact. And I didn't get a reply. And so I'm like, here's this midwife who isn't replying to me like that doesn't look very good. In her tagged photos was my my midwife, Charmaine Dixon from flourish midwifery. Nice. And I contacted her and she messaged me straight away and Yeah, we just like sort of clicked right off the bat. And we met up at one of my favorite cafes and it's just sort of, yeah, got to chatting. got to tell, got my, my mom came with me to meet Charmaine and we got to tell her the crazy birth story of myself and yeah, and she was just blown away. that's how I feel. Wow. It's just such a funny happenings of events. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you were literally born into the home birth world. Like that's amazing. because not the case for a lot of people and for most people. Yeah. For most. And when you tell people like, I'm actually going to be giving birth at home, like you're met with like shock and horror and what if something goes wrong and You know, you probably, you do, get to this point where you sort of stop telling people. Yes. That's what you're going to do because you're met with like all the questions under the sun and especially once you actually are pregnant and it's reality. It's not just this mythical thing that you're going to maybe try and do. Like, I'm going to do it and I have my private midwife. Yeah. stopping me by telling me that you think that it's kind of dangerous. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And did your husband have like any like, what was his knowledge of home? Did you have to like win him over or what was that like for him? you know? Yeah, he was, he was very, he's such a reasonable person. You know, like if you just sort of explain like why it's important to you, he just kind of was like, okay. Like, yeah. And his understanding of birth was that it happens in hospitals and things like that. But yeah, I like. came to him with my knowledge of home birth, the fact that I was birthed at home myself, that made sense to him. I would want to try and emulate, you know, not the same birth, but being born at home. then, yeah, and what was I going to say? Did he ever see born at home? He did not. oh I asked, I asked if he would, he was not very interested in like watching it on the off chance that he changed his mind or he didn't want to have to see other people giving birth. He loved the idea of watching me give birth. And he was more than happy to listen to me just recite the podcasts that I was listening And I listened to you so much. Oh, really? that's so cool. It's so weird to hear your voice now just being in conversation with me. I'm like, is this real? Is this actually happening? Oh, there's so full circle. That's amazing. crazy. Yeah, especially when I was pregnant. I was listening to the episodes when I would drive to work. I had a really long commute, so I on your episodes. Oh, what? Oh my gosh, that is so cool. Yeah, I feel... I always forget like how long I've been doing the podcast and being, actually, yeah, like nine months ago, I had heaps of episodes out. So yeah, um that is very, very cool. so, so you were messaging to connect with like the midwives. Do you remember how many weeks you were roughly? Maybe like 18 or so maybe. Okay. I think it could have been earlier than that. Yeah. Everything's such a blur when you're. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. And, did you do like any, I feel like at this point, like Home Birth is literally like in your, I don't know, DNA or something, but like, did you do, um, like any particular like courses or like, like apart from. this amazing podcast, of course. Did you, did you like access any other resources to prepare you for, you know, that journey or, you know, for home birth? Yeah, I say the Born at Home film to me was like research in itself. Yeah, sort of like then got connected to all these different midwives, like the Home Birth Australia, like the website there and all of those sort of articles that you can then read. any questions that like, yeah, my husband had or I had for myself, I could look there. I didn't do any courses. I did a lot of my own research and watched a lot of like YouTube videos. People's personal experiences with home birth. I really just tried to sort of surround myself with positive experiences and sort of, yeah, I did a lot of that like mental prep. for putting yourself in that position of like protecting your birth space and only listening to, you know, the stories that emulated sort of what I want. So I did that pretty early on. But yeah, no courses, but yeah. Yeah, cool. Yeah. mean, like I said, it's like essentially in your DNA at this point. if anyone's got it, you do. Yeah, cool. And like, how did you find pregnancy in general? I had a really easy pregnancy. I loved being pregnant. um I know that some of your friends that I had who were pregnant around the same time did not have that experience. Yeah. They wished a painful birth upon me. Oh, gosh. That's so mean. HG, the really bad nausea vomiting. My friend had that for both of my Here I was who had like, I probably had a couple of weeks of nausea and could still count on one hand how many times I actually vomited. uh And I just, it breezed through it really. It a lovely experience. I just loved bonding with my baby. Yeah, beautiful. And like in the lead up to um going into labor and you know, that last trimester kind of preparation, did you do anything in particular to like prepare your body or prayer mentally or even for your husband to prepare to like enter that space? I think prepping the space was like my sort of, yeah, like calm. is I like to have control. Yeah. And so that was how I could have control because the birth could have gotten how it was going to go. Yeah. And so I had a really beautiful space set up with you know, like lovely, curtains and affirmations and, you know, it's like just fairy lights and everything to make it just this dream space. Yeah. We sort of even rearranged like our couch and everything so that we knew I'd have like a mattress on the floor in the lounge so that could go there and, you know, have another spot to, to labor if I needed. And, you know, I think it was just a lot of, yeah, mental prep of, of getting the space ready. And then, yeah, like really sort of going inward and trying to see if there were any sort of doubts or fears that I had, especially because my, my own birth had a a bit of sort of trauma surrounding it and yeah, I sort of tried to work through anything that was there and a lot more uh yeah, like of that personal sort of research as long as I knew I was like really prepared. That was what was going to keep me calm, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's all but yeah, I think for my husband I um got really sort of funny. wrote a list of like do's and don'ts for labor for him. uh I would chat to him a lot about different positions he could help me get into and yeah, and we would chat about all that sort of stuff as well. In our midwife appointments, he was there for pretty much every single one. So supportive. yeah, he would ask any questions he sort of had um through my midwife and yeah. I think that's about it. Yeah. Sweet. And so you're obviously going to have your husband and your, I guess, two midwives. Were you inviting anyone else into that space? My mum, she came along. I always wanted her there and she was so funny when I said like, of course you're going to be there. And she was like, you don't have to help me. What do you mean? She's so funny. but yeah, she was like, no, no, no, you'll have your husband. And, you know, I don't want to invade on that sort of space. And I'm like, he's not going to know what I mean. You've at least done this before. Yeah. wow. That's so special. Um, my friend, um, did sort of say like, you should get a birth photographer, but I just. I could never figure out like the logistics of that. I, I don't know, I just, the idea of having someone else there that you maybe didn't know so well as well that you played into, yeah. Inviting anyone else into that space. It's pretty sacred space. Yeah. So yeah, I knew I wanted to keep it small. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Um, how many weeks were you roughly when you went into labor with Elliot? I was 39 to the day. Wow. Okay. And in those weeks leading up to 39 weeks, did you like get any signs that labor was coming or what was that like? I had had like, I think I had like gone to the bathroom and noticed like a bit of like my mucus plug or what I thought was my mucus plug and just sort of, I think I texted my midwife and sort of said, Yeah, I think that was my mucus plug, but I can't be sure. Yeah. It wasn't like a lot. so I wasn't, and I had done that bit of research for myself to know that that doesn't necessarily mean that labor is coming. Like it could reseal and then it could be weeks and weeks away. was preparing myself to go to 42 plus. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's probably a good approach for everyone. Yeah. First time everyone. Yeah. and so that had happened and I'd obviously had a lot of like Braxton Hicks, um but it's nothing like crazy, no sort of like big shift did I notice or anything like that. um I still mentally was like, we've got at least, you know, two more weeks of this or whatever it was and yeah, four, you know, it could be anything from here. um Yeah. So for it to happen at 39 to the day, I was pretty grateful for it though, you know, you got that sciatic pain that's like really flaring up and rolling in bed is just, you feel like you have a bowling ball strapped to I literally feel like a whale. Like, you know, you're kind of just like stuck. My husband and I, I like vividly remember. My husband and I like laying in bed. I don't know how many weeks I was, but I get very big. So it could have been any point really. But I remember like laying in bed, probably like not fully on my back, but like maybe with my hip like raised under a pillow or something and just like reaching. We have like a king bed. So he was like on one, like the one side and I was on the other side and just like touching hands. like, this is all I can do because I can't move. And we're going to, I remember like saying, feel like we're like otters because like otters when they swim, they like hold on so they don't like get like going, I don't know. And we plan to get like otter tattoos because it's just like, yeah, like that feeling of, yeah, I'm just, I'm stuck. uh I do not miss that feeling. Yeah, I'm fully prepared to go through it again because we are not one and done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's just that vivid memory of sort of being on your back and mentally preparing to like shift to the other Yes. Yeah. And having to let be mindful. I think I got out of, got out of a car the other day. I don't know which car, but I just had like this random memory of like, oh, like when you're like so pregnant, having to like really like twist, yeah. And twist like fully 90 degrees and yeah, both feet planted on the ground and like using your quads, really have to think about it. Oh gosh. Amazing. And so do you want to walk us through like the labor birth of Elliot then? I sure do. I, oh, that was one other thing that I would say that I did a lot, um, prepping for Birth of Us. Um, I really envisioned what it would look like and, you know, down to the last detail of like what lights I would have on and off in my house, what music I would have playing, the fact that I wanted it to be at nighttime. Cause I thought people who labeled in the day were weird. As if you have a choice. But visualization is very powerful. Yes. Yes. But my midwife was such an advocate for that. And I told her every detail, like it was going to happen at night time and, you know, it was going to look like this. And I'd probably labor a little bit to start, you know, like on a mattress or something like that. And then I'd probably hop in the pool and just stay there until I had to give birth. it's almost exactly how it happened. Wow. So it's crazy. So my husband and I were religious and we had gone to our church in the evening. And I remember sitting and in church and feeling this big movement from Elliot. And I just sort of thought like, uh like Could he be moving into the optimal position for birth? Like, oh, just put it out in your brain. Like, who knows? And it's so weird to have had that conscious thought, but you know, like, who's to say? Like, and who's to say that that was his optimal position and then it was going to be two more weeks before he his arrival? But it was this really big, like, honestly, if you were looking at my belly, it would have shifted to one side. Wow. huge. And yeah, I remember it so funny. I had all these people saying to me like, any day now and all the typical sort of and I'm just like, I was so annoyed. Yeah, unlike me. And so that probably could have even been like that first little sign in hindsight, was yes. Yeah, thing was happening. And yeah, a friend of mine sort of said like, wow, this is so crazy to think you could give birth to nine and you could you know, go home and have a baby or you could be three weeks from now. And I'm like, let's hope for sooner. Yeah, yeah, And we got home. And we just were always on such a high from from going to our church. So like, everyone's so upbeat and happy. And, and it really just, you know, you exude that when you're in your own space then. Yeah, of course. We were just chatting in bed, just making it to the laugh, telling these swapping stories about funny times that we've vomited. random. I think it was just an oxytocin release that maybe just sort of helped everything go along. Yeah. I'd always sort of, he would go, all right, well, I'm going to head to head to sleep now. And I'd go, okay, well, I'm going to go do my nightly stretches and get comfortable. Yeah. I'd always sort of head into the nursery and I'd get down on the ground and I'd do these sort of like hip flex sort of stretches and things and um I would finish it off by sort of like rolling onto my knees and doing a bit of cat cow stretching and just some breath work and I remember this night I rolled over onto my hands and knees and I felt a pop like Like I could have sworn it was an audible like, yeah, felt a warm gush in between. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I did not just pee myself short in the nursery. I was like, had to be my waters. Yeah. And so I got up and I sort of went to the bathroom and I'm sitting there in disbelief, just like, my goodness, is this it? I think I'm sort of like shaking with adrenaline and like, no, maybe not. And don't don't get too excited, you know. And I stood up and more gushed out. And I sort of sat back down and I was thinking in my head, like, do I wake my husband? Or do I just, you know, let him keep sleeping because like, we could be hours days away. Yeah. m want to disturb him if I don't have to, he should rest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I should rest. I should try and go back to sleep. And I knew that that's what my midwife's advice would be. And but I sat there and I think when, when more sort of gushed out, that's when I was like, oh, maybe I should just let him know. m Bathroom is right across from uh our bedroom. And I just sort of tried to really peacefully rouse him like, honey, babe. He's out. He's out cold. Yeah. I got to a point where I'm just like, hang on. What up? And he's like, oh, what? And I'm like, I don't want to alarm you, but I think my water's just broke. And he sits bolt upright. Like part of my French because we don't typically swear. Yeah, yeah, Shit. It was oh was amazing, it was just Kodak moment and I was like, I know but just remember to stay calm, we want this to be really peaceful, you know, and he said should we be like letting the midwife know and I'm like probably, maybe just give her a call and so yeah he... and gives her a call or sends a text I can't remember and her advice, of course, is go to sleep. Yeah, try and rest. You know, for you know, a lot. Yeah. So I go Yeah, that's great. Um, but I just had like a couple more things that I needed to do like the birthing pool just needs to be like topped up a little bit on pumping and you know, we have the fitting on the tap yet maybe you want to do that and I'll just bring that mattress down. And I mean, hindsight is I heard in like a recent podcast that like the more that you move, the more you're gonna sort of kickstart the labor. Yeah, I'm gonna it's to me. But I will just do this one last thing. We'll we'll move the mattress onto that floor in the lounge room. And just from the spare room, we've got this mattress. And I'm like, okay, and we'll just put the mattress protector on it. Because and then we'll go to bed. Yeah. And literally as we're pulling that last corner onto the mattress, I just like got the first contraction just starting in right in that front in the uterus and I just like keeled over onto the mattress. Wow. And he's like, what's happening? In labor. This is it. Yeah, I think I used to say like, it's happening. This is it. And he was just like, Oh my God, what do I do? You just you just go be here and just Yeah, let it happen. Yeah, tell her that it's it's on. And yeah, so he calls her and he's to let her know, hey, Amy's sort of saying that it's starting and she's like, you know, like, I'll give a little bit. I might, you know, try and go back to bed. And then she could hear me in the background, sort of really starting to get into that like primal. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Because it really just sort of starts out almost like period cramps. Yeah. And just intensifies from there. Yeah. How many how many hours or like how long had it been since like that initial pop to when you called the midwife roughly. think it's only been about an hour, hour and a half. Well, yeah. the time we sort of were, yeah, like moving everything around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so I guess she sort of was like, time, you know, like it could take a little while. But yeah, it wasn't until she sort of could hear me in the background. And plus, I guess. for midwives, the fact that like you're getting the husband to call as well as a sort of tip for them that maybe you're getting into that label. yeah, um But I had hired a tens machine and was really keen to sort of give that a go. And so I got my husband to sort of strap that on for me. um And I liked it. I really liked it. I'd heard mixed reviews, but I felt like it did a lot for the pain, especially like the pulse when you were having like an active sort of contraction. And I think part of that is just, yeah, like the distraction that it gives you for that second to kind of like feel like you've got a bit of control maybe as well. Yeah. Like clicking that button and seeing that light come on and just knowing that a bit of relief was coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I really, really went. inward from the jump. I like tried to not speak as much as I could. When even when it just initially sort of started like my husband would just be like, Do you need anything like to should I be doing this? I'm just like, Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Remember that do and do not list go and refer to it. I had it printed and everything. And The one saving grace was, you know, he sort of said, Do you think that you need like a heat pack? And I was like, Yeah, actually, like, yes. And one of my things was asked me yes or no questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Get that. Nice. That actually really helped. Because it felt like it was a lot in the front. Like the pain that I was experiencing. So that really brought a lot of relief as well as the TENS machine. unison together. Yeah. We also obviously called my mom to let her know. And it's so funny, like laying there and hearing people on the phone and like, so calm and relaxed. Like, I think I'll just have a quick shower and then I'll head over and I'm like, it's happening. Like, I don't know why these people are being so Why are they so slow? Yeah. And because I was like, I'll be giving birth by then. time they arrive. yeah, yeah. These thoughts that run through your head. And yeah, so I think my mom just beat the midwife here. um And it was so funny, the entrance into the space, you know, I had, my husband had started my playlist, my nature sound playlist. I actually chose my playlist was Tony O'Connor's Rainforest Magic and is so peaceful and it has like a special place for me because that's the kind of music my mum, it's the album she used to play for us em just to keep us like nice and calm or chill. She was like trying to wake us up really gently in the morning for school or something like that. wow. music and so just had this really lovely sort of space for me. um And yesterday he'd had my playlist started and all the lights dimmed and everything was perfect. He was filling the pool already, you know. And she sort of she came in and I had this huge blanket wrapped around me because he was born in August. So it was this like freezing cold weather, know. And our house is particularly cold. uh Just a typical old Queenslander house that's all built to withstand any kind of weather except hot. And so we had like the heater going and I had this huge blanket, but of course you're getting hot and cold when the contractions are coming and going. And so I just remember like I had these thick socks on as well, but I'd already sort of gotten into, you know, like what I wanted to be wearing in the birth pool and everything. just like a sports bra and whatever was Yeah, yeah. And I had this blanket that I'd like, sort of tossed off of me because I was so hot. And my mom walks into the space or calm and tucks the blanket back over me and goes to start sort of like, you know, petting me and I like it off and I'm I'm Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, darling, like whatever you need. And I'm like, stop touching me. You also read that list. Of course, of course. I'm just like, stop talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. ah I was in it. Unfiltered, Labourland. Unfiltered, Labourland and my husband was just sort of sitting off to the side giggling a little bit like I knew not to do any of those things. Yes or no questions from him. I think she sort of gave him that look of like, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To take that back seat and this was. like my lane. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, my midwife arrived and I think she sort of just did the sweep of the room and was just like, let's get this pool ready. yeah, yeah, Checked in with me and it's so funny because a lot of your birth you aren't maybe like overly conscious of, right? Like it's happening and you're inward and... you're going through all your sensations and so you're maybe not always so aware of what's going on around you. So it's really fun to reflect and hear everyone else's sides of the story. Yeah. I really enjoyed that because quite a lot of like my memories of it. I remember what I was thinking internally. um But yeah, they were able to sort of fill in these blanks of like, do you remember when this happened and this and I feel like no, actually. Yeah, now that you say that, Yeah. So that was really cool. But yeah, I remember um her offering for me to hop into the pool and yeah, had to take off the Tens Machine patches. I remember sort of being a little bit like, but like, what if I don't like the pool? Because I'd heard mixed reviews about the pool. Yeah. but I got that instant relief that they talk about. Like I loved, loved being in the water. um Yeah, it just was like instant sort of pain relief. What they call it? Like uh the home birth epidural or something? Yeah. Yeah. And I had my friend again, my dear friend had gifted me birth in combs and cool. Yeah, so um that I just switched positions in the pool, whatever felt sort of comfortable, but I loved that sensation of just, I was in my zone alone, essentially untouched. Like I could do what felt natural to me and my baby. And I just sort of like hung over the edge of the pool or sat with my back against the edge of the pool. You know, they'd only sort of come and offer you, you know, like words of encouragement if they felt like you sort of needed it. And um affirmations up on my wall, like I said, and my husband um would come and sort of whisper those affirmations to me. beautiful. And it really helped. And I think he even spoke to that being a male. in this female dominated space where, you know, all of those women had given birth before and like he just, he felt like he sort of served no real purpose in that room to himself just quietly. felt like that. And it wasn't until he would sort of like, you know, he got that encouragement from, you know, the midwives, my mom like going, maybe just like touch her hair, maybe just like her forehead a little bit of a stroke or just maybe offer her some water. And he'd over and he'd do all of those things and I would just like, you know, melt and just be like, oh, thank you. like, you know, just, that's all I need. just having him by me, I felt his presence and, you know, he'd come over and he'd whisper like, you know, like, you're doing so well. you know, H contractions bringing you closer, meeting our baby. And it was just like all the buzzwords. It was exactly what I needed. And when I would sort of like emphatically like nod, like, oh, she does like need me here. Like, my presence is helping me here. Yeah. Yeah. I loved that. And yeah, I remember at one point it was so funny. I could hear everyone was sort of like whispering around and yeah, she's doing really well. And I just remember thinking like, am I doing? Am I doing well? And at one point, I could hear we have a laundry cupboard up in our bathroom. And I heard like the familiar sort of like sound of it being opened. And I was like, who's that? What are they looking for? Like, what do they need? And then just ignore it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They know what they're doing and it turned out to be my beautiful mom looking for towels because she had spilled she's in the midst of like boiling jugs and pots of While filling the pool. Yeah, she's getting all this hot water. I still remember like, you know, bits of her like coming up and she'd say like, I'm just pouring it some hot water. some water coming sweetheart, just be careful. And I do kind of remember instinctively, I just sort of sway and just like move my hands and just sort of mix the water. Yeah. And she was like, was like watching you just dance through this birth. It was so cool to see. Yeah. Wow. So yeah, I actually hadn't said yet, but The whole thing from start to finish was six hours. So I was a superhuman. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I stayed in the pool for quite a while. I had probably like one little stall in the labor, like the contractions started to slow down. And my midwife suggested that we go up to the toilet. you know, maybe you need to do a wee. And I just sort of was like, yeah, like, okay, I think I do. I think I'm like in my head thinking, yeah, like, something's feeling like it needs to happen first. I don't know. And so yeah, my husband and her sort of helped me out of the pool and dragged me off a little bit. And they walked me up. We've got like a split level house. uh couple stairs to go up to the bathroom and they got me to sit like reverse, arms up on like the back of the system with my birthing combs and that is like... It's like the classic. like literally that's what it's called. Yeah. My midwife, my beautiful midwife gave me amazing like counter pressure on my hips. And I let out some Tarzan yells there, like primal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She said to me, you can feel him moving down, can't you? And I said, yeah. Yeah. She was like, yeah, OK, good. Like, do you want to head back to the pool? And I'm just, yeah, definitely. I want to head back to the pool. She said, you are not putting any pressure on your own legs. Like Nathan and I are going to carry you back to the essentially and they did and I could have sworn my baby's head was like, wow. Wow. uh And like getting back into the pool like it's so tall these barrels grazing a little bit across it being like I'm gonna push him back. Yeah, it on the edge. And yeah, and then it was like really, really on then. um I remember sort of like leaning over the pool again, the hanging over it and just having those like thoughts of like, probably transition then at that point of like. ring, the ring of fire, I started to feel like that real burning sort of sensation. And I, I think my midwife even sort of sensed it, like there's sort of like some like, sharp intakes of like pain. she'd be like, just like, you've got this and like, no, no, no, don't freak out, like lean into that. And I just remember thinking in my head like, oh, you've never given birth and you aren't gonna know what this feels like. Yeah. And that's okay. You know, like I sort of really coached myself through it and yeah, it just was like, it's gonna hurt, but you can do it. Yeah. You've got this and it was so cool. Like being your own sort of cheerleader in that moment. And yeah. I remember having also the conscious thought of like, you could feel my baby's feet like kicking and sort of doing whatever he needed to do, like the maneuvers and stuff that they had to do to work their way down there. And I remember consciously thinking like, this is the last time I'm ever going to feel him like kick in my belly. my gosh, that's such a weird thing to think about. Crazy. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I... I think essentially I sort of gave birth on like hands and knees in the pool. Yeah. And I, my, the second midwife I think did reach in at one point to sort of give me a bit of like counter pressure against like my perineum. I think they, they were telling me to slow down, but I just was like, I'm getting this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I'm done. Yeah, was getting so tired at that point, you know, because I hadn't had any sleep since the previous night and it's coming up on like 4am. Wow. And yeah, it felt like two sort of fluid pushes of like head came out, then the shoulders and everything else just sort of like slipped out and it's just the biggest relief to have it all just sort of like amount to that moment. Yeah. And my midwife was like, lean back. pick up your baby. And I just like remember opening my eyes and looking into the pool and they're lighting it up with like torches and flashlights and things and I just like came back to earth. It was such a weird feeling. Like, I felt like I hadn't opened my eyes the entire time. And so to just like come back and the first image I saw was just my baby like floating in the Wow. Magical. Magic. Yeah. And I did, I got to pick him up and like put him onto my chest. That was such a surreal feeling. yeah, it did not feel real. My cord ended up being quite short. Okay. So my midwife just had to kind of tell me to just adjust and just hold it a little bit lower and yeah. sort of just with like the amount of like color change in the water and everything, I guess she just sort of asked like, do you want to just hop out and we'll get you guys all snowed and get you nice and dry and everything. And I think that they're really good at like, even if there were things that maybe they were like curious about, like if I've torn and all of those sorts of things or like the amount of blood that was in there, I don't think was like an enormous amount. Like it wasn't anything beyond usual, but like they still like to get you out, but they don't ever want to panic you, is so lovely. yeah. at that like stage, like panic is like counterproductive to what still needs to happen. Like you still need some sort of oxytocin to get that placenta out. And if you're saying, my gosh, there's blood. Then that's going to, you know, spike your adrenaline even more and cancel that out. it's. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, like, I mean, that's so horrible if you're like in that magic space and then somebody's like making you panic. It's kind of like, well, somebody's like just popped your bubble, really. So that's yeah, that's beautiful. And so did you birth your placenta then out of the pool? Yeah, out of the pool. I feel like I got a bit stubborn. I just was like, done. And both midwives separately sort of came up and were like, you know, like after the delayed cord clamping and all the rest of it, do you think like, you getting any kind of urges? Like, is it, you know, and I was just like, like nothing. And I really didn't get any more contractions or anything. um they sort of, yeah, they said, there's both separately. They, you know, there's no bones in this one. like. one push and you'll probably get it out and be the artist. And I just silently was like, no, I'm not doing it. And they sort of often, oh, do you want to finally try and do that we and let's see if that's what's stopping us. And so obviously, to have that happen, they separated me and baby. Yeah. And they had the little um like, with like a crocheted sort of handmade cord. Oh, beautiful. My husband got to choose from a few which one. So sweet. Yeah. And so he got to do the tying and he got to do the cutting. And that was really, really cool. Just up in our bedroom, you know, like we've just sort of been into that space. And I think it's literally the only evidence that like home birth sort of happened here is like a tiny blood stain from the cord on the carpet in our room. Other than that, like you would not have known. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so once we were sort of detached and Nathan got to have some, yeah, some bonding time with Elliot, I went to the bathroom and I've recently tears to my eyes, my midwife and I had this really beautiful moment. Sitting on the toilet and full places and, and she just was sort of like, you know, like rubbing my knees and, and sort of, and she did offer the, so the pitocin shot to get the synthetic. Yeah. So, yeah, um she. sort of offered that to me. And I did take that just because I was sort of eager to get things moving along. Yeah. Yeah, just this beautiful moment of her just sort of like, my God, like, you just had your baby. And I just like looked at her and she looked at me and we just burst into tears and just hugged each other. And like, it was this journey that we'd been on together that was now at an end. Yeah. Yes, you still see her for your like the postpartum checkups and things, but it was just like, that's the peak initiation into like, oh motherhood. Yeah, it's just, it was really, really sweet. But yeah, I had the the old like, just cough and we'll pull the placenta out for you. So that was, that was my placenta delivery. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure it's a very common story. Yeah, it's so funny. Like it's so me. I just like silently and stubbornly was like, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No one else did I utter the words no, but I just was like, mm Yeah. I listened to the Great Birth Rebellion today. The newest episode. I think it's like episode 150 or something, but it's like about considering home birth or something in their interview, um a home birth mum and yeah, they were talking about how like cruel or how rude is that, you know, you literally give birth to a whole human and then you also have to give birth to the placenta and it might not have bones, but it's still like a decent size thing that has to fit through and sure it can fold and it can squish. But it's still soft. I feel like yeah, maybe I'm because I hadn't even considered that in my like mental preparation. Yeah, there you go. My body and brain vision just stopped. Yeah, vision stopped. so therefore, all over. Such a funny way to put that. Yeah, tell my midwife that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Vision stopped. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And so that was like at roughly like 4 a.m. ish. Yeah, I he was born exactly 4 15. Wow. Wow. Yeah, that's beautiful. I just I was thinking about a post I saw today in the Home Birth Victoria group and a mum. I guess different circumstances, because obviously by a lot of pressure. And I mean, I'm sure there's lots of people can relate, you know, when you reach that up to 42 weeks and like every publicly funded home birth program, you know, the cutoff is like 41 plus six and often it's like at midnight on the sixth day or whatever. And you know, she was talking about like, you know, how can I, how can I get myself into labor and whatnot? And I just think it's so funny because yeah, you can feel nothing and nothing and nothing. And then it just takes one cat cow. you know, and that's it. That that's the spark. That's it. It doesn't, you know, once it like when it happens, it's going to happen. It's just, yeah, you don't know when exactly that specific moment it's going to be. then, yeah, like what? Like six hours later, you got a baby. That's like, you know, that's nothing. Six hours is nothing in comparison to a day. Like uh things can happen so quick. Yes, yeah, six hours, like, I've had, like, shifts at work that have way longer than that, you know, like, so crazy to think. Yeah. It's like, what would you normally do in that amount of time? Yeah. Well, like, yeah, now I think about it, like, uh my eldest Murphy, he just started, I don't know what they call it in other states, but they started, he started prep, like he started primary school this year and like, Yeah, the day of school is six and a half hours. So that would be like, you know, going, dropping your child off at school, going into labor. And then by the time they finished school, you got a baby. Like, that's wild. Ideal, honestly, like, yeah, people give like a way smaller number, you know, like, oh, birth crazy fast and I had like a three hour labor. Yeah, that's too fast. Yeah. Well, I have had quite a few people on here that have had like extraordinarily quick labors and it's actually not all that it's, you know, I think people think that it's going to be because it's like, yeah, a shock, like uh very fast. your skin doesn't have maybe as much time to sort of stretch and Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. I had a sort of like very mild second degree tear. And so I can't imagine it going like any faster than that. Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And then um what did you do? Did you like get tucked up into bed or like what were those initial hours or was that first day like? Yeah. I initially like straight after when we were sort of moved from the pool onto we had our mattress on the floor in the lounge room. My beautiful mum offered us cups of tea and she made some like tea cake. beautifully. Eating cake. We have these funny like sort of pictures of me just like asleep like shoving cake in my mouth. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, and I just had a on my chest and then yeah, moved up to the bedroom. I think, yeah, when I went up to the bathroom and I had that um time alone for a second as well after my midwife and I had that beautiful moment and just got left alone for a sec to try and finally do that wee. I longest wee I've ever done in my life. and just had that sort of like, oh my god moment of like, I birthed a baby. So strange. yeah, just the serenity of just being in your own space, being able to just jump into my own bed, like I got to change into, you know, different pajamas, whatever, was comfortable and just being alone in and it was so strange because the um you could see that the sun was coming up through the peak in like our blinds in our room. And I just was like, what time even is it? Like, how long was it? then you start to get all of the like, the answers to these questions that you're like, wait, like, what day is it? Like, was that hours I was in labor? Was it two? Like, yeah. And, and, yeah, just like laying in bed. so peacefully with my husband and I like my mum and the midwives just were down here just packing everything up and like you came downstairs for the first time. And after a couple hours of just laying in bed, and it was you wouldn't have known that a birth happened. Yeah, yeah. packed away and like the pool got drained and everything and I think there was like one remnant of like oh a placenta or blood clot or something on the lawn that my husband found the next day. It's just like, there's proof that it happened. that it happened. Yeah. Oh, so good. Yeah, I couldn't speak to an experience of being in a hospital beyond like visiting friends there. One of my friends who gave birth. uh about two months after I gave birth to Elliot, she had her second bubba and we came to introduce them both and just being in that environment felt so wrong. And even my husband felt the same like, was like, it's so loud in here and you know, yeah, this lighting is so stark and like, you're separated by curtains that are paper thin. The woman in the next room to you is like, know, crying or like, you know, talking to her husband. then, like, there's all of this stuff happening, beeping machines. And I just immediately was just like even more grateful for the experience that I got to have at home. And so was he, which was, yeah, was really nice. It reaffirmed it all for us, into the hospital setting. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Whenever I hear a story about hospital birth, I just can't, yeah, I can't believe like how different, especially, that shared room situation or like even, yeah, as simple as like having the curtains closed and seeing that peak of like sunlight, like, you know, when you're in a shared room like that, which is most places, I think. Like you don't have control over, you know, the curtains or the air conditioner or the heater or the settings of your, of the, not the settings, the sheets on your bed, you know, you don't, you don't have control about who comes in and who comes out. Like at some point nurses or midwives, they do have to come like it's. They have to. Yeah. And yeah, like even when we were there, like they came in just to sort of do a little checkup and talk to or just delivering meals and things like that. Picking the trays up or, you know, the everything like every, yeah. It's still a disruption and yeah, I just, oh gosh, I was so grateful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, I would. I think I am done having babies, although hearing I don't like being pregnant, but uh the birth part I could definitely do again. And especially that initial like oxytocin high, like it's so addictive and just yeah, I would yeah, like I'm going through um all the photos on my all the photos on my phone at the moment. because I have like, I don't know, 20,000 photos on my phone. So many. Too many. Too many. And I have this idea that I'm going to create like for Murphy every year, like a uh photo album or something, you know, a physical photo album. like a copy table book. Yeah. And so I'm going back through, you know, like month one, month two, month three, I think I'm up to like six months now. And I mean, this is like five years ago. Um, and yeah, just being like, holy moly. I'm like even seeing myself and how young I look and like, oh my gosh, like what a, what a time. Like that was like, like obviously, you know, with Frankie, it's like going from one to two, that's life changing, but like your first baby, that's like. I don't even know. Like that's, that's such a wild experience. You're learning everything from the, like for the very first time. know, like looking back at these photos, I'm just like, Holy moly. yeah, it's so beautiful and just, yeah. So special. And I still remember like, yeah, eating peanut butter toast. Like that was my first meal after Murphy. Yeah. So cool. It's completely different to being a motherhood related, but I think that I do slightly regret not having someone professional to sort of take some photos or even just for myself to have like some raw video footage. Yeah, sure. Yeah. My husband picked up his phone like maybe once or twice to take a couple of videos for me and I'm so grateful I have those. Yeah. Just, my God, like hearing the audio of yourself like going through a contraction that breathing that like, oh, like, yeah, I'm giving birth again. that visualisation. Yeah. Feel that contraction. uh And, you know, it's sort like panning down to the mirror reflecting like his head crowning. Wow. I'm so lucky to have that. uh And my mom, who cannot take a stable photo to save herself like any other day, took the most stunning picture of me holding my baby Elliot for the first time. Wow. It's my favorite picture ever. And I have it in like black and white. And that's what I show people because it sort of blocks out any of the... Yeah, yeah, yeah. bloody water. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. But like... Gosh, just so beautiful and it's so lovely to have the memories, but I know that they'll fade, which is why this is kind of such a beautiful thing to have this podcast, you know? I get so nervous that I'm like not adding details that I'm going to want to remember. Yeah. Because I didn't even say, know, like my husband, when Elliot first sort of came out and I brought it to my chest, everyone cried, like there was not a dry eye. You know, my husband sort of barely cries. He wept a little bit, you know, like, and it was just so beautiful. Like, and that's what he was saying. Like, he's so beautiful. It was so sweet. Yeah. I think when you described that moment, I already had like everybody crying in my mind. So that makes sense. It sounded really beautiful. my goodness. Wow. And so future babies, home birth? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There definitely is that element of like costs that always sort of like niggles in the back of your mind because yeah, I guess it was a lot more than maybe I was initially sort of expecting pre-pregnancy. I hadn't really done too much research into that sort of thing myself, but yeah. It was worth it. Ten times over, I would pay that, you know? Yeah. My husband feels the exact same. That, yeah, it was just incomparable to the experiences that we had both heard from close friends, family, their experiences. That's what I came out of the Born at Home film feeling like was essentially this is an investment into myself. my husband and my baby's experience of coming into this world and becoming parents and becoming like, and like, I couldn't justify any kind of like dollar sign value to like taking that away. and I for sure like there are people who just could not make it work even if they really wanted to. And my heart goes out to them. um But yeah, and there are so many different advances happening with home birth and everything that is so awesome. I think there's some developments in Queensland with having a lot more like home birth programs opening up. The closest hospital to me is Logan Hospital, and they like had a full edition of like birthing suites and all different things. And now I think they do offer like a like the midwife based care. Yeah, midwifery group practice. Yeah. I believe they've started offering that. But nothing compares to like Charmaine, my midwife. I would birth with her again and again and again. Yeah. love her so much. Like that bond that you form with your midwife is just comparable to none. Yeah. She's... She's a mom of nine. um She had nine babies. What? my gosh. Like a real professional if you could. my gosh. And so, uh yeah, just knowing that you had someone on your team who had been through it nine times themselves. Yeah. That gives you a lot of confidence, think. Yeah. I do want to be to her like after the birth. um one of like maybe the first sort of like postpartum visits and I said to her that transition like thought that popped into my brain I didn't say but I remember thinking I'm gonna like keep pushing and I'm like just gonna tear and I'm just gonna keep splitting and I'm gonna like split in two like I'm just gonna like rip up the middle and just keep going And she was like, yeah, she was like, I once had the thought that I was just gonna, yeah, like fold and flip with the banana peel. And I was just like, you're telling me this now? She was like, yeah, you have to do the work first. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, both times, I think I can't quite remember the difference, but the same kind of thing. Yeah, both times I remember being like, Next time, C-section. Next time, 100%. I can't believe I'm doing this without an epidural. That's so stupid. But like, would never, you could never pay me enough money to like, you know, elect or like voluntarily have a C-section or voluntarily have an epidural. I that I liked what you said earlier about that you knew it was going to hurt. Yeah. I mean, there's lots of people out there that say that they have like pain free births that's amazing. Personally, my births were not pain free. But like I accept that it's you're pushing an actual human out of your vagina. that's gonna hurt. But like I would yeah, like I mean, the I think the payoff is like, yeah, like worth it, you know, the physiological undisturbed birth is like I mean, if you could bottle it up and sell that, um you'd be a very rich person, I think. 100%. I could not agree more. The amount of friends who go, I could never do what you did. And I'm like, you could. um I advocate for the fact that every woman, healthy mom, healthy baby, could give birth at home and should give it a go if they can. Yeah. Because it is... It's just the most amazing feeling. that high that you talked about, I felt like I could conquer the world. Like, I'm saying like, I'm a rock star. Yeah. My midwife is like, you are. Yeah. Pamper me now. Bring me that tea and cake because I just gave birth to a human. Yeah. That's badass. Yeah. For that, like, yeah, that oxytocin. high was yeah, if you could bottle that and sell it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be, I'd buy it. Um, yeah. Well, it's been amazing to chat with you, Amy. Like the story, especially your twin, your own birth story. I was not expecting that. That's like a wild bonus, but yeah, so beautiful. And it's always so special, um, to like here and share like a first time mom choosing home birth because yeah, like most people, like I've said before, most people are choosing home birth or finding home birth after they've already had some sort of other experience, whether it's positive or negative or traumatic. 100%. Whatever. um And yeah, like, I think that's amazing. You're amazing. Thank you. I think it's as well like it's it was not hard necessarily because my mind was so made up but when you're met with any kind of like negative sort of response to like, I'm actually gonna be having a home birth. Like, that safe? Like, you know, or if my baby wasn't born in a hospital, they would have died. Like there's the conditioning that a lot of people have that a hospital is the only place or the safest place to give birth to a baby. To feel like you're sort of not eating from that same pie is just so like, yeah, it felt like I was this like sort of hippie with really alternative views, to find podcasts and like communities of people who are really normalizing home birth was really, really cool. especially like I said, the Born at Home film coming out like right at that time was so like, yeah, it felt all like it just sort of like was meant to be. Yeah, almost personally sort of came out for me and helped me. Yeah, yeah, absolutely meant to be. Yeah, strong in that decision. But yeah, I think that there's a lot of that fear mongering that babies need to be born in a hospital. just in case, know, or that sort of opinion of like, don't you want to have your first baby at a hospital just to see how you birth? Like, yeah. And I know you don't need to have a trial run birth. Why don't you birth at home first and then see if you need the hospital? Because like my sister-in-law is just in awe of me and like her delivery of her only baby was so traumatic for her and she's like, I wish I had like spoken to you and maybe my birth would have been different, you know? And yeah, it breaks my heart like that. There are so many women who have that negative experience and yeah, cascade of intervention is real for some. There are some lucky few who go by unscathed in the hospital setting. for those who didn't have such a fortunate experience, she wishes that she had the same sort of experience I had. yeah, that thought that you have to give birth once to know how you birth, but do it under safe conditions in a hospital. Because of course, like you're going to opt for, you know, epidurals and things like that, because it's like, you know, offered to you. Yeah. Well, I stories where they do this. So people like pester you as well. And like that's happening in 2025 where they're like, do you want one? Do you want one? Do you want one? It's like, at some point you're going to say, yes. Yeah. Yeah. This is your last chance because yeah, otherwise there's not going to be somebody for X amount of hours or they're going to another birth or something. Yeah, that's horrible. um Yeah. Well, again, thank you so much for last minute sharing your story. I really, really appreciate it. Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for having me. This has been really, really fun. I do hope that I got everything out that I want to. I'm sure I'll probably think like, I should have said this, but that's mum brain for you. Indeed, indeed.