2 homebirths - homebirth after 42 weeks, ECV for breech baby, the power of positive birth, accidental freebirth || Amber's birth of Delilah (2022) & Bette (2024) at home (Victoria)

Episode 64 is shared by Amber who is a mum to two homebirth babies. 

Today she shares the fantastic story of the birth of Delilah at 42 + 5 weeks at home, and then the birth of Bette, who was a planned homebirth with midwives, but ended up being an accidental freebirth at home  as the midwives didn’t make it in time! 

We also chat about family centred birth and changing the narrative around homebirth and birth. 

Resources

• Evidence on post dates baby written by Dr Rachel Reed
• OP baby written by Dr Rachel Reed
• A survey of Australian women’s digital media usage in pregnancy and labour and birth (2023, journal article) 
• ECV (external cephalic version) for breech baby
• Just Another Day in a Woman’s Life?Women’s Long-Term Perceptions of Their FirstBirth Experience. Part I (older article from 1991 but still relevent I think) - click on the PDF download for the full text 
• The meaning of a very positive birth experience: focus groups discussions with women (2015)

Transcript

0:02

Welcome to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys, a doula in Melbourne supporting birth at home. I'm a mental health nurse and the co-creator of Home Birth Victoria. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast, or my work, check out www.birthingathome.com.au. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Ngaam, Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. Episode 64 is shared by Amber, who is a mum to two home birth babies. Today she shares the fantastic story of the birth of Delilah at 42 plus five weeks at home. And then the birth of Betty, who was a planned home birth with midwives, but ended up being an accidental free birth at home because the midwives didn't make it in time. We also chat about family centered birth and changing the narrative around home birth and birth. Enjoy. Welcome Amber to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Hello, how are you? Well, thank you. Thank you so much for joining me tonight. We were just catching up because you first reached out to a post I put on Instagram for post date stories back in July 2024. And this is the second time we're attempting to do this. So I'm really glad to finally be able to hear and share your stories. And you've also had a second home birth in that time. So even more story to tell. if you would be able to give a bit of backstory to who you are, where you're located and who's in your family, that would be awesome. Yes, yep, Amber is my name. I live in Springvale currently and I've got Delilah who is two, she was born November 2022 and I've got Betty who was born last year, 5th of October, so that makes her like three and half months I think if I can do the math correctly. something like that you must be very very busy with yeah basically to take like yeah under two almost. We're 22 or 23 months apart, so pretty close. I'm expecting it to be that close, but that's how things happened. Yep. Here we are. so Delilah was born at 42 plus five. Yeah. Yes, yeah, 42 plus five at home. She was born on the same day as my mom and the same day as my doula. So that was pretty crazy. Having the three of them all in the room together. Yeah, so my midwives even were mentioning it. My husband said they looked like a couple of witches standing over the placenta discussing. how magical it was, three women in the same room, all born on the same day. Yeah, that is very freaky. That's quite special. Yeah, I don't know what the chances of that are, but. No, especially because she was late, know, 42 plus 5. Well, I don't want to use the term late because I don't necessarily think that's correct. But she waited. Yeah. Yeah, that's the day she- Yeah. like her grandma, her shasha as she calls her. That is very, cool. And we were also reflecting as well that, yeah, it's very cool that you've had two home births. guess, how did you even learn about home birth? Do you remember like how you came across it? Well, I was going to go through the hospital system and I was, I assumed that you could like choose basically, I was naive, I didn't know any any differently, but I thought you could choose your own hospital that you would have your baby at. I was like, well, I'd like to go if I went anywhere, I was going to go to Sandringham just because that's where my mum went for three. all three of her kids. I basically was just at the start of pregnancy, needed a referral for all of that. And I found out that no, that's not how it works. And the hospital closest to you will contact you. And they never contacted me. So I was like, okay. And then I was left following it up. And in the meantime, I just by chance came across just home birth, must, I think on Instagram, I just started to just go down that rabbit hole. And I just just something flipped and I was like, No, this is what I am going to do. I'm going to have a home birth. And my husband was on board. His auntie had a home birth a long time ago. So wasn't anything that he was concerned about. I did get a lot of backlash from family and just like other people in my life about how unsafe it is. because I guess that's just ingrained in them to believe and think that. So I just stood my ground because that's who I am and if someone tells me I can't do something it's like I think I can. I can do what I want. So but also it comes down to like that safety factor people just have this assumption that it's not a safe thing to birth at home and you need the hospital. So yeah anyway I just decided no I'm gonna do this at home and I got my doctor to give me a referral to organic midwifery and that You like so you feel like you probably came across home birth on Instagram. Like, how did that? Do you remember growing up or anything like hearing about having any preconceived ideas about it? No, nothing whatsoever. I mean, apart from my husband is, Auntie had a home birth. He's spoken about that before that might have maybe played a role or the reason why things came up on Instagram. I can't remember exactly how I even how I came across it. But as soon as I did, I was like, yeah, this is what what I'm going to do. Yeah. And I also find I've got bit of white coat syndrome. So my, blood pressure gets really extremely high as soon as I walk into the like a doctor or anywhere that has that, that smell, you know, like dentists have it as well. They've got that weird, that just had smell and it just gets to me and I've got just like low blood pressure. So my blood pressure to go as high as it does that every time they're always really concerned and I'm like, please give me five minutes. just relax. So I just kind of knew that it wouldn't be it wouldn't be the safe option for me. And the longer I was in that process of once I chose a home birth, and then I met with the midwives and spoke about all of this, the more I was like, Yep, this is 100 % the correct direction for me and would be the safest. for me and for the baby. Yeah. Did you or like, do you remember between, you know, deciding and then choosing organic midwifery? Do you remember like doing like any sort of deep dives or any like any sort of of your own research into home birth to overcome like any of those initial questions that you might have had? Yeah, well, just I found sorry, my daughter. I found just all the information that I needed. But through Instagram, it's insane how much is just in that platform, like everything's right at your fingertips. And just following lots of different pages, a lot of like, American pages, I seem to have followed as well in the process. was reading other people's stories, you know, the good and the bad. And yeah, nothing really like deterred me from like wanting me to change my mind or anything that because there's a hell of a lot of people, like you said, who have like, like their second or their third or their fourth will be a home birth because of how negative their first experience was in the hospital system. I just, I didn't, I didn't want to do that. And I didn't like the idea that you have like a different midwife every time you go to the hospital for your appointment. It's no, it's no real quality of care. You know, it's a different person that you have to then like, yeah. You build a relationship with somebody over the appointment and then you never see them again, or you might by chance see them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or, you know, like you're birthing in hospital and the midwife goes, oh, that's my shift over. And they walk out the door and you're halfway through pushing a baby out. I just, yeah, it's just not what I wanted. I didn't want a whole town in my pregnancy and in my labor. Yeah, yeah, of course. And I think to be fair, like, I feel like most people would. Yeah, I feel like most people can think about an experience that they've had in the health care system or just, I don't know, like really any situation. And when you have to like re-explain your story about why you're there or your history or your fears or your current situation. it's, yeah, I mean, I know, who had hyperemesis. And so she, every week she was going in having to get IV fluids and every week there would be like a different nurse and they'd say, how are you? And she'd say, well, actually I'm not that great. And they'd be like, well, hopefully the medication like helps. And then every week be a different nurse asking the same question, giving the same like, commentary bag. Just you know, she said that, you know, eventually she just started to say, No, I'm fine. I just want to get this done. And like, that's a lie. Like, yeah, that's, that's not very safe. But that's amazing that you were able to yet, like linking with private midwifery and especially, I guess to point out before we get into the pregnancy story with Delilah, like in the context of like, Delilah's pregnancy going over over, you know, that that 42 weeks having a private midwife means that you can be supported past that because you're here in Victoria and across Australia with the the publicly funded home birth programs. That is one of the big big draw cards is that yet you can't go over 42 weeks otherwise they won't support you. So that's Yeah, really amazing that you were able to like choose a private midwife. Yeah, well it's good that, you know, I did go down that path because, otherwise it could have ended in, you know, just an induction and just a domino effect. After that, which is not what I wanted, I didn't want a medicalised birth. didn't. Yeah, didn't want anyone to touch me. And I definitely didn't want to be at home, you know, having the contractions going through the whole labor, early labor process, and then getting in the car, driving into some foreign place, just because that's how things work. I was like, yeah, and then you have the baby. And then you put the baby in the car. And then you drive home. And it's It's like, why not just skip all those steps and just stay at home? I don't know why more people. Yeah, I think like a lot of it is, yeah, the the negative stories or the misinformation and the fear mongering, I think. Yeah. And especially, I mean, social media is obviously very helpful, but I can also, you know, if you end up on the wrong algorithm, then it's a slippery slope and then you're seeing completely the opposite. yeah, I've had some, some full on comments when you know, when I've commented on people asking like, how far along were you and I've got I was 42 and five and the comments I get back from some people are just it's it's yeah, it's insane. They they would even think that's appropriate to write to somebody and you know, you've got no no idea what they're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of the time as well, not on the podcast, obviously, but, you know, just amongst like colleagues or like just, I don't know, out there in the world, you hear and read stories and you think, did it actually happen like that? Like, you know, I feel like there's always so many stories out there. that, if I wasn't in the hospital, or if I had have gone past 42 weeks, then somebody would have died. Or if I hadn't done this, then you know, this would have happened. if this, if that, but that didn't happen. My mum has said that, you know, if I wasn't in the hospital, I would have died. I just think, no, the hospital is what caused the problem. hate to, you know, be the bearer of bad news, but that's what that sounds like is what happened. Yeah, exactly. And so with organic midwifery did, I don't know, do they have like a clinic or did they do the home visits or? All home All of them were home visits. I originally contacted, I think it was like Mom and Toto. Are they the ones in queue? I can't remember off the top of my Yeah, so I contacted somebody else first, but I didn't I still felt like it was a little bit too medicalised, even though it was going to be a planned home birth. They had other, you know, just things they stipulated. And I was like, Okay, I didn't get the right feeling from them. Yeah. So I got in contact with Mal from Organic Midwifery. I had Ramona as my backup and I used them for both my pregnancies. wow. That's very, cool. Excellent. And so they did all home visits. Yes, all home visits. then I delighted with breach as well. So malorganized an ECV with Ravi at Monarch. And that was more painful than childbirth. Having a flipped. Yeah, a lot of people say that it doesn't hurt but like a full, she was fully breached, like right up, right in my ribs. Yeah. So to have her flipped was like somebody flipping your stomach. It weirdest feeling but also excruciatingly painful. And I don't want people to not be aware that it is really painful. But they give you like an injection to, I think it's to relax your cervix. I think it's to relax maybe like the muscles in your tummy so that they can. something else. It's not your service. Sorry. don't even know. That's alright. Not very good. That's alright. So that was successful. I didn't I didn't realize that either. was like, tell me any of this. But it was successful. Yeah. So my mom was there with me and she was talking about it last night. She goes, you could actually just hear like this plop like when she turned she went straight, went straight into the pelvis like head down ready to go. my gosh. but that was at 38 weeks and then I was still going for four or five days. basically six weeks. Yeah, five weeks. Yeah. she breach, like for the majority or your pregnancy or what was your pregnancy like? Pregnancy, yeah, she was breached. then so we tried moxibustion, tried doing all the exercise, you know, like the spinning babies stuff. And I was like lying on an ironing board at one stage. None of it worked. I was so hopeful that it was and then every time they checked, they're like, no, sorry. So yeah, 38 weeks we decided to have her flipped because Mel and Ramona weren't. comfortable with the breach pregnancy because it was just prior to a lot of midwives doing the breach without borders. So they've both done that now. I'm pretty certain that they're more comfortable and better trained in that. Yeah, yeah, that's it was meant that's happening at the moment. which is awesome. good. Because a lot of people, yeah, they just go, I'm just going to go for it and have this baby. If baby comes breach, then that's just how it is. But it was like a mutual decision between Mal and myself that it was probably the best option to have her flipped. Yeah. But obviously, like if you don't have like an ultrasound to check all of that, then there's not really anything they can do. But if it was confirmed via ultrasound, I would have had to go to the hospital. So no, I'm 100 % made the right decision for myself because it's like I had a eight hour labor all up. No, sorry, six hours with Delilah, six hours all up. and the night hours with Betty. Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah, that's yeah, that's really cool that. Yeah, you then the fact that like she stayed head down as well, but if she was like, if she was fully locked and loaded. Yeah, even Ravi said like, she she's not turning like she's yeah, bam in there. And I don't know why she just didn't. Yeah, didn't do it herself. Maybe she possibly could have if I just wrote it out a bit longer, but she was pretty stubborn. I did try a few things beforehand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool. like during, you because, you know, you saw on Instagram about home birth and then you chose private midwives, like in terms of like learning about, you know, what happens in home birth and about your body and like how like physiological birth works and everything like that. Did you mostly get information or education or whatever from? like organic midwifery or did you like do your own kind of stuff or what was that like? you. It was a bit of both. Mal sent me lot of information. And then a lot of information I found, like on Instagram, just, I just started to get a real interest in like home birth and like physiological birth and no, you know, like unmedicated births all of that. And I was adamant that I didn't want any pain medication. So I am yet didn't have any didn't have anything with any of that. And I don't I'm not the type person to take anything generally anyway, unless like, am in excruciating pain. I like to just kind of just be left alone. Like, was like, I just have to go into my own like cocoon, like, just leave me alone. This is my my space. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And your partner, did you have to do like any, like, did he have to like work through anything, any fears or anything like that? I know he was really good. We did do like a birthing class. Neither of us liked it. They wanted us like, you know, enact things. And we just like, it was just not it was so not us. And it was funny because the things they were kind of teaching for the males to do, you know, massage the back and hip squeezes and all of that. I didn't want any of that like When I was in labor, was like, please, nobody touch me. I don't want to be touched. Just let me just lie down and deal with it myself. It worked out quite well. He just did like the filling up of the pool and all that. But we went out that night. as well. well, well. Before Labour, like I had my show and then we decided that we were just going to continue with our plans and just go out. Because what was the point in sitting around the home and watching, you know, watching the clock. So we went to a charity event that my sister was playing tennis at. then we left as soon as I felt like I couldn't sit down because I was sitting on her head. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good time to go. think I'm sitting on a hilt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you had a doula as well. Yeah, had Amanda down as my doula. And she's now a really good friend as well. Amazing. How did you or like, do you remember like what led you to choosing a doula? Like making the decision to like seek out a doula for home birth? just from seeing other people's birth stories on Instagram and just what they shared. And I was like, okay, what's a doula? And then I searched what it was. And I was like, that sounds like something that would be really beneficial for me. Even though like, it's funny, because I'm not Not like a... I'm not like, like, I don't like being like, all touched or anything like that. Or I didn't necessarily feel like I needed emotional support, or even really like physical support through it. I was like, okay, great. She can like make food and, and I was like, maybe like, you know, just somebody, somebody to talk to. Yeah. And it's, you know, they obviously you're a doula, know, like you just help out and just doing stuff. I was like, yep, I think I could benefit from somebody just helping out someone who's not my mom, somebody who's not related to me. That's what I liked about it. was like, yep, it's somebody that I that I don't know somebody knew who knows about birth and who can come in and just be another set of hands. Great. Yeah. And now we're the very close friends. it's worked really well. had a for Betty as well. Yeah. Yeah, like very, very, very special. And was she so I think like originally when I put that post out in July or whatever last year, it must have been like. Well, I mean, I think we both have probably seen and I know people listen to this and, you know, room. remember other posts and stuff that they've seen about people, you know, going like, you know, post dates and like the emotional sort of roller coaster that that can have like what like once you were approaching that 42 weeks and then going over the 42 weeks, did you have like any of those concerns or did you feel like any pressure placed upon you or were you like worried about anything in particular or No, think the best thing for some for some reason, I just didn't have that. I wasn't stressed about going over. I was more like, Oh, wonder how far this can take me. I was like, my challenge. Yeah, if I got to 43 weeks, like what would people be saying or people be thinking? know, I people ask me, they're like, Oh, when were you Jew? I was like, Oh, I was Jew. I was doing like the, I think the first of November or something. And then look then like, but it's the 15th of November. It was funny the morning before I went into labour, so the 19th of November, somewhat this lady in a shop said, Oh, when were you doing? was like, Oh, you know, earlier in the month. And she's like, what do you mean? Like you could just see the shock in her face. Like how, why, how are you allowed? And it's like, what do you mean how am I allowed? Yeah, right. I think it's only my decision. Yeah, it's literally your body. Yeah. So and they're they're the ones who have like this, you know, they're so scared. And my husband's mom, she was quite scared through the whole process. And she would always message him being like, Oh, the baby come yet? He's like, I will tell you as soon as your grandchild arrives. And they tell me now, you know, we were so scared for you. Yeah, his mom and his aunties. That's why there's no I wasn't sick. There was nothing to be scared about. It's funny that everyone else was, you know, you know, frantic about it. But I just thought, like, I was almost, I'd never really had that feeling like, my god, I'm pregnant. my god, I'm going to have a baby. like I'm going to have to have this little person to look after. I never really had any of those thoughts. when she did come out, I just looked down and she's floating in the water. And I look up at everybody and I go, what do I do? I'm gonna go. kick her up. Okay, but she's like, really slimy and gross. I was never I think I was a little bit almost eluded. I just it just never it just kind of all just flowed really not like not natural, but like it just flowed for me that I never had that like, my god, my god, my god, like these big moments. It was just I just wrote it out and then I had a baby and I'm pretty sure it was Mal. She said that, you know, you just kind of just picked it up so easily. know, motherhood just gone straight, straight into it. It's like, yeah, it's so it's yeah, been like, it's been a pretty easy ride throughout for me. And I feel makes me feel bad saying that because of other people have had. you know, lots of ups and downs and they've had negative birth experiences. So I don't always talk about how mine just went really smoothly. But obviously at the end of the day, it's my story and I can't. Yeah, you don't need to censor it for other people. Yeah. And I think like realistically, you know, I still tell people that the four months postpartum with Frankie, who I had in June, 2023, that four months postpartum was the best four months of like probably my entire life. Like if I could just relive that four months, you know, granted newborn granted, you know, going one to two, sure there's challenges. But I felt so amazing. I felt so good. I was so energetic and like happy and just everything was amazing. And like for most people, that is absolutely not the story they hear about postpartum. I feel, you know, you know, there's definitely some things that you have to be you know, or consider like to be realistic about it and consider the possibility of, you know, X, Y, Z, but also consider like, what if it just goes well and what if it's actually completely fine and it's really enjoyable and you actually don't struggle like, cause that's possible too. Yeah, yeah. that should, I mean, that should be the norm with all. you, shouldn't be just talking about all the negatives and I need to remember that. Yes, obviously don't censor my positive experience. because I might feel that somebody feels, you know, it's like almost, yeah, jealousy or something over, how my experience went, but yeah. it's I mean, it's hard. It's hard to feel for other women and want them to have had that really great experience. they just haven't been able to get it. But obviously, by not talking about my great experience, then it's just one less good experience. that's so true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So was the first sign of labor the... Did say you had like a bloody show or something? Did you have like any other signs in the lead up to that? No. Yeah, well, yeah. so the morning before, after the 19th, my mum was like, you gotta get this baby out of you. Like, this is getting ridiculous now. So going for a big walk. So we walked from like one end of Hampton Street to the other end and then back. And it was like six kilometer walk. Wow. And I'm like, not even fit at all. So I don't even know how I managed. I was like, okay, the only way I'm walking all the way up there with my thing. It's going to be dead at the end. And then, yeah, just got on with my day. And then that night we went, yeah, we went to watch my sister play tennis. We were doing a 24 hour tennis tournament. Yeah. So we went along to that, had some, had some food, just, I think I just ate like kebab, meat or something. And then I said to my husband, all right. We got to go because I am sitting on a head. He had to drive home because I had to hold myself up in the car seat. I'm really uncomfortable. I got home hungry again. I was like, all I can think about is kebab meat. Do not recommend at all. Like it's, it wasn't a good choice because it all comes back up again. If you're in labour, don't think about me. It's actually really funny because I'm pretty sure in the episode that was released this, this week, the mum shares that that was the common denominator in her, like three births. so she was recommending. Maybe like something a little bit more plain. Like, you could probably still go and meet but yeah, I don't know where the boys got on Uber eight. So maybe she made her own. It was a bit full on. So yeah, and then I just get labored at home and just doing that. Everyone keeps telling you, if you're first, just be aware, you'll be in labor for a really long time. So then I'm umming and ah-ing, like, am I in labor? is, like, my contractions were so random as well. But my doula, Amanda, she said, but if you kind of like average them out, like, you know, you're really close together. so thank gosh for her because yeah, I wouldn't have been able to do it without it. Like she was the best person at my birth, you know, far better than my husband, far better than my mom. She's my favourite person. Yeah, I just remember just in meeting the most was Amanda. And yeah, so I made a great choice with her. Yeah. I was like, I'm sorry. I know it's your birthday. Can you come to my house with a baby? But I mean, what like for her, she even said like, a great experience, you know, that she was born on her birthday. mean, no better birthday present for both Amanda and my mom. I very lucky. I decided on that day. Yeah, she was the gift. Yeah, so my mum was there as well. And she was great, like, my whole pregnancy and she was great whilst I was in labour as well. She wasn't on board at the start though, when I told her about the home birth. Yeah, said some not great things, but... I think it came more from, yeah, from just fear than anything else. How did did you like did she meet with the midwives or with your doula or like how did she come around? came to my birth plan meeting, which was really great. I basically just said, look, you've got to be on board with me with this, if you want to be there. And yeah, then I send her some information about home birth. And all of a sudden, she's the biggest advocate. And she's telling everyone, oh, my daughter's having a home birth. And then afterwards, like after it was like, you know, really positive experience, she tells everybody, you know, oh my god, I I was there, I helped, all of this, you know, I could be a midwife. That's really it. Yeah, that's so good. Because now, because everything happens so fast as well. Yeah. So. So you get home, you get home in the evening from the tennis thing. PM. And then it just kicked off from there. I tried like the shower and everything and tried a tens machine tens machine. I just not a fan. Yeah. If you hate the feeling of pins and needles is exactly what it felt like to me. So I was like, No, I can't can't do this. So I basically just like laid on the bed. And Amanda, Amanda got there. Delilah was born at 318 am. Amanda got there not like maybe I think I think I said 45 minutes maybe like an hour before but I could be wrong could have been a little bit more than that. She just said oh can I just you know can I just have a look and I was like yeah go for it and she's like okay we need to get you in the water because I was like I was involuntarily pushing on the bed and then my water on the bed. And I remember like, I don't remember which midwife was but they were telling me like, no, it wasn't no different birth. My mom was saying, no, you're not ready to push. Amanda was like, no, we need to get the midwives here. We need to get them here right now because she's ready to push. So she's involuntarily pushing the phone from my mom was like, get here. get here now. baby is coming. they got here, Mal and Ramona got here with about 18 minutes before Delilah was born. And they said, they just said, you need to push her out and you need to push her up right now. So I pushed her out and out she flew into the water. was a slimy alien thing. was so foreign to me. You know, no matter how many like you watch all these videos, but your own experience is just is something else like how you're going to react to it. You never know until you're there in the moment. and I just, I just, I didn't have that like, my God, this is beautiful. I just had this like, it's just, yeah, slimy and like the holding her up to me and she's just, yeah, she's slimy and they're saying, they're going low in her face, you know, talk to her like you want to like kind of shock them to take that breath. So you had to push her out quite fast. they're like, and Matt, he passed out because he was like, thinking she's not breathing, but she was obviously still connected to the center and everything. And there was like a little like a little bit of like, they were thinking they might have had to give you a little bit of oxygen. But that all that set up. But no, she was fine. I was just needed to be a bit more like a bit more rough. You don't realize you've got to actually like really kind of get in there and get them to just take that breath. But I had absolutely no idea. And I don't think I don't think my midwives knew that I would have zero idea as soon as she came out. They probably thought that I would have somewhat of that kind of like maternal instinct just to know what to do. But I didn't. have a vivid memory of just seeing her in the water and looking up at me. And she was just like, yeah, like purple. Like that purple-ish. Um, and just looking up at all these people standing at the pool as I'm just kind of sitting there, I was like, what do I do? It's like, pick her up. It's like, Oh, okay. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have heard that quite a few times with quick births that like, sort of like, well, like, you know, because you're also, you know, you generally like... You know, you've been in labor land and then just before the baby is born, then like your adrenaline goes up because yeah, you need to like, your body has to like prime itself to like get out of labor land to actually, yeah, pick the baby up and that like transition, especially if it's like happened so quick can be like quite, yeah, like, there's a baby in like, I've got to pick it up and my gosh, what just happened? Yeah, it was really, it was really fast. then, you know, I'm holding her and my dad, because it was actually so fast, he basically dropped my mom off, then drove home. And then she's like, Oh, you might as well just come back. Baby's gonna be here any moment. So he like came back. He had like 15 minute power nap. He came back. And it was really special because he like came to the room and I was still like in the water. holding Delilah. got the placenta just like sitting like in this bowl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a really nice photo of the two of us just talking. Yeah. And he's like, this is such a beautiful photo. Like, can I post it? But I've cropped out the bloody bagpipes. my Yeah, that's fine, Dad. Like, yeah, you can, you can post that. But it's a really beautiful photo that Amanda took of the two of us. So she took some photos, which was really nice. I just said Please, just, I don't want any photos of my bumhole, please. Like that was just off-bounds. To be honest, that's where I personally draw the line as well. Yeah, I was like, please just yeah, you can all you can all look at it if you think or if it's just there and you've got nowhere else to look. But please no photos. Yeah. My mom was actually standing behind like, yeah, behind the whole time. So she got like that back view. And I'm just thinking, I don't know why anyone would choose that view. But okay, mom, like, she was just She was having a great time. It was such a great experience for her to be there. Absolutely. Yeah. And I feel like that's, you know, I feel like in, in home birth, like, because you can have whoever you want there, that the power that that could have like generationally, like that exposure and the changing of the narrative of what physiological birth looks like, I feel like that ripples, you know, because yeah, like your mom's going to tell a heap of other people. And then maybe like when, like one of their family members or friends like is thinking about home birth, then maybe instead of like all the fear mongering, maybe they're like, well, I know somebody whose daughter had a home birth and she had a really good experience. like, you know, copy and paste like many, many times. And hopefully like, yeah, hopefully we can find our way back to Yeah, appreciating and respecting birth in that physiological way. Yeah, well, yeah, 100%. Because it all just comes down to word of mouth a lot of the time. As well when other people hear about yeah, how great experience it was, like as somebody who's not actually the birthing mother. Someone who's just yeah, gets me there to experience you know, their firstborn daughter and have her firstborn daughter. mean, it's a pretty, pretty special experience. And then yeah, and then she got You've got to have it again as well. Wow. So, so Delilah, how old did you say Delilah was when Betty was born? So she was Yeah, yeah, cool. And what was your pregnancy like with Betty? Was it like just a given that you were going like once you found out you were pregnant that you were going to have a home birth again? yeah, yeah. And I got in contact with the same girl, so organic midwifery. Unfortunately, like when it came around to it, it was Mel's scheduled weekend off. Ramona became my primary and then she brought Helen along with her, who they worked with as well. However, they didn't get there until I think 30 or 40 minutes after Betty was born. Wow. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So what was, what was your pregnancy like with Betty in comparison to Delilah? Yeah, it was relatively the same. She wasn't breech. Her bum was just causing me so much pain. And then I got a little bit sick. And when I was coughing, I had to push her bum down so I could cough because of the positioning that she was in. Her bum was just sticking right up the top of my stomach. But it was... I had that same, like metallic taste in my mouth that I had with Delilah. I thought it was going to be different because I was eating differently. so was vegan with Delilah, still halfway through Delilah, my pregnancy with Delilah. and then, yeah, obviously not being vegan like at all with Betty. but no, they were, yeah, pretty much the same, everything tasted. terrible and tired, sore back, know, just the usual pregnancy stuff. I didn't have like, some people have terrible pregnancies, and I really feel for them. I didn't have a terrible pregnancy. I just had just an alright pregnancy. Yeah. Yeah. How did you find being pregnant with like Delilah? Because like, guess, yeah, I reflect on Frankie, who's 19 months now. And thankfully, when I had Frankie Murphy was three. But if I can imagine Frankie right now and if I was pregnant, like, my gosh. Like, how did you find that experience? Like being pregnant, chasing after, you know, That's whole lot I guess. that was fun because um, like I couldn't fit to like get in little places and stuff that let you get stuck in um, you know, go to the play center and then she climbs all the way up to the top and you can't get, I couldn't fit through certain areas that I have to send my brother. I mean and he could barely fit through certain areas but at least his was just, you know, he could move his his stomach a bit easier than I could move mine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a bit of a hard lump where his ears were a soft. Yeah, it was, but it was also just like, you have no choice. It's good. just gotta get it. Yeah. And I would have like naps with her when she would have her naps, which was just great. So that was a positive. And also you kind of just, you don't have that like huge amount of time in between to, like get back to like, like any type of I didn't really get into any like routine or anything like that. was just like a wham, bam, like, here we go. My life is chaotic, you know, as per usual. So no, but it was just funny, like, we should have like tantrums. I went to the shopping center, have tantrums. And I'm like, almost, you know, like, I'm almost ready to pop and I'm to carry this kid out of the supermarket while I'm wishing me a tantrum. and people would just look at me and I'd be like, I am too pregnant to deal with this and to deal with your looks and you know, whatever. Look at me. Yeah. I was just, yeah, I was in a state. It was, it was a much quicker pregnancy than with Delilah. I felt like I was pregnant forever with Delilah. Whereas Betty just yeah went A lot more distracted, right? yeah, well, I was sitting with my friend and was like, where'd that whole year go? And she's like, yeah, she's like, were pregnant at same time. She goes, we were just trying to survive. But yeah, oh yeah. Were you did Delilah? Was she at the birth of Betty or was she? She was asleep. Yeah. So she was awake at the start as I was having contractions and I would photo of her and she's sitting on top of me. I'm lying on the bed in the middle of the contraction. She's just bouncing on me. that was great. then my mom was like timing the contractions and she fell asleep. My mom's next to me snoring. my goodness. just like trying to be quiet while having contractions. I'm generally quiet anyway. when like I'm in pain, kind of just like, yeah, go into myself. Yeah. I never like, it's funny, because like, swear constantly, like, much as surprised I haven't tonight. But I'm just, yeah, I swear, and yell and all of that. But yeah, when I was in labor, I'm just really quiet and really reserved. I was saying like, you know, please and thank you. Yeah, even yeah, my Amanda, she was like, she's like, it was just not like you at all. Like you didn't even swear. she said, your mom like went to rub your back at one stage and you just said, oh, please don't, please don't touch me. And she said, I was expecting you be like. Don't ever touch me. But she was like, could you please do this for me? you can you please do it? thank you. She's like, were so quiet. Yeah. I didn't have a primal kind of roaring or anything. just, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Went inside yourself. And how many weeks were you with Betty when you went into labor? 41 and 5. Yeah, so a week difference. Yeah. Yeah. And did you have any signs of labor in the lead up to that? just the day before like before the evening of going into labor, I wasn't feeling very well. And my mom came over. And she was like, your stomach is really soft. Whereas I didn't have that with Delilah. Basically, it just it was almost like it half deflated. Well, and I was like, Yeah, well, it is really soft. So she must have like just dropped posterior. Okay, well. So they did say that you're most likely going to have a longer labor because it takes a while for the baby to come around and then come down and all of that. no, that is not what happened. She came out so fast. Yeah. And so how many hours was the label with Betty? I think it was about eight hours. Yeah. So a little bit longer with a little bit longer than. A little bit longer and different as well. I felt that it was a bit harder. I don't know if it was like mentally harder or... Yeah, because I didn't really remember like any of the discomfort or pain that was associated with Delilah's birth. It's almost like that's just kind of like gone from my memory and it was just... like a really, I think it's because I was also like, maybe there was like more, more going on, like more people were kind of around. with, with Betty, like my mom, my mom fell asleep for a bit. My husband, he was asleep on the couch. Delilah was asleep as well. So it was a bit more quiet and I was a bit just more on my own. And then I was kind of getting like really uncomfortable. And that's when my mom decided to get me into the water. And yeah, thinking that it was going to be like, longer as posterior usually is. But no, because I knew she was going to be born before the midwives could get here as well. but Amanda was here and that didn't concern me in the slightest. I just knew like in the back of my head, you know. And Amanda's on the phone to Ramona just saying, yeah, like you're on your way cool. And she was saying like, if you know, basically, don't don't push. And I was like, No, that's, that's not gonna happen. this baby is coming out and this baby's coming out right now. And I just changed positions. And the head just went straight down. So she just kind of just must have just done it like one of the it's very like rare apparently that that happens when they go when they're posterior they just kind of just do it really quick. And then I was like no I just have to push and basically I think I pushed once or twice and she was out. Yeah, my husband was like, her head came down he's like. her head came down and he's like your vagina was like this big. My mum's like yeah like what the size of a baby's head? Yeah! A literal human, like, came out of there. Like, then she went back up and then that's when I was like, no. And then I pushed her out. Yeah. I think it was two pushes. And then she was out. The cord was around her neck. And I remembered all the stuff from Delilah. You unwrap the cord, pat them, blow on their face. I was much more like, I know what I'm doing. I could hear my mom going to court and I'm just like in my, I am like in the zone and just, I've ignored everybody. I've ignored everything that's going on around me. I know what I'm doing. And yeah, so that was incredible because it was pretty much like an accidental rebirth. mean, yeah, that was that's exactly what was. Yeah. And so how, how long after Betty was born? Did the midwives arrive roughly? I think it was about 30 to 40 minutes. my. So did the placenta come in that time? Yeah, they're like, get her out of the water, just, you know, for blood, but they want to just want to say how obviously how much blood there is and because they weren't there, they couldn't they couldn't see. my Amanda said, so Amanda my daughter, she said, I've got to call. I've got to call the ambulance, I think just by by law, if there's no midwives presence, they have to call non ambulance, like just call paramedics. Okay, yeah. Um, and she was just saying that she was on the phone to Ramona at the time. She was just saying to Ramona, that's what she needs to do. Ramona's like, that's all right, I'll talk you through everything that needs to be done. So Ramona said on the phone to Amanda and they just talked it through. And I didn't even that her having, making that comment, like it concerned my mum, but it didn't concern me because I like, I completely trust Amanda. Like I know what she's doing and yeah. I was like, but she she knows like, she, said to her afterwards, like, you don't have to underestimate yourself. Like, you know, what you're doing. Like, know, yeah, because she's like, didn't want to didn't want to alarm you or anything. I said, No, no, I, I trust that you Yeah, we're doing the right thing. Yeah. And they're like, basically said, okay, you've been in the water for probably long enough. Like, let's get you up, get you out to the couch and have the have the placenta. out on just yeah out on the couch anyway I stood up and I was like and I'm holding Betty and everyone's like holding on to me to get me out of the pool I was like sorry and I just like fell out and then a man was having to search for it I'm like sorry about that and she's like no no this is the fun part searching through the water for it Look at jellyfish. my goodness. that I just basically yeah, sat on the couch and just waited waited for Ramona and Helen to come around. They did all the weighing and all of that as well. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and so what time was Betty born roughly? Tink it for something, 401. Yeah. Yeah. And when did when did Delilah get to meet her baby sister? Pretty much as soon as I like got onto the couch she came out and she was just had no idea what was going on. Yeah, there's like photos and she's just absolutely exhausted and she's kind of got this like half smile half like just terrified look on her face. Because you know you'd say to her like oh what's in mommy's tummy? She'd say oh baby baby, but she didn't really have much of a concept. Yeah, because she's still quite young. Yeah, because you'd say, Oh, what's in pops is Tommy, she got a baby. So everyone had a baby in there, Tommy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's so sweet. but she's much better with her now. Took a while. But no, now she likes her. We've gotten past the pinching and throwing stage and all of that. But it was very special just having everybody at home and then just being able to get into bed with everybody. it's such a nice experience, then going somewhere and having to organize somebody to look after your kid and all the rest. My sister just in case she had we need an extra set of hands. Because my parents, they were in the US, I think until my due date they were still going to be away so it was good that she was also yeah she was one week five days not as as not as much as Delilah but yes my mum yeah only got home from the US like a couple of days before wow yeah so she was was like Betty chose her timing as well. Yes, yep. That's why I let her have a nap as I'm having interactions. She'll lie next to me snoring. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so special that she was able to be there and like so amazing that, yeah, you had the same doula and like, yeah, that's, yeah, that's brilliant. That's, yeah, you don't really hear that happening too often. So yeah, I think that's a really special story that even that's, you know, possible as well. Yeah, well, it's like, obviously, didn't intentionally mean to have like a free birth. I guess it was an accidental one. But even then, you know, was, there was never any fear involved in any of it. I had a very straightforward birth with Delilah. I just trusted that this is, yeah, you can't, once that you've once you need to push you need to push like there's no there is no stopping that especially with a second and yeah it all worked out my mum is you know she likes to call herself a midwife now she delivered yeah to home birth. midwives haven't even seen one, so you see two. That's pretty incredible. And you know, like with with Delilah being 42 weeks, five days, I see a lot of people, know, getting to like their past their due date and they start to get like, get all that fear. But there is nothing to be scared of going over like your baby will come when they're ready. And there's a lot of other things to take into consideration like, you know, my my cycle was like very random and irregular and all of that and that could have, you know, a lot of the times that could can make people go a longer than some others. Basically, your baby just needs a little bit extra time. But yeah, I wish more people would just just trust the process and have more trust in their body. Because your body knows what it's doing with women. know how to birth. Yeah, I agree. is coming out and what better way than just to wait and it will come out when it's ready and it will be a much smoother process than if you have any type of interference as you know there's so much evidence it goes to show that you know if you have any type of induction the rates of you know instrumental or cesarean just can go up. Yeah, it's ridiculous. And then you've got things that are like, then you got like postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression, all of that, you know, because you've got to like process everything that you've been through and then all the other bits and pieces that go in, that go into it. Yeah, want the best outcome. Home birth, 100 % Yeah, I agree. And I'm yeah, I'm so grateful to have your story out there, especially with Delilah, because yeah, it's really, really important that we share these stories so that people know what's possible and that, you know, you had like such an amazing experience and everybody was healthy and safe and alive and you know, it wasn't like what, you know, some people would have you believe if you didn't know any better. So yeah, I'm really grateful for you taking the time to share your story. Is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you'd like to talk about or mention or anything? Well, we've most things that I can remember about both births, but just the best thing that you can do is having the right care team and the right people in your birth space as well. I had my mum there. I love my mum dearly. But just because, you someone is family doesn't obviously doesn't mean you have to have them at your birth or anything like that. yeah, I had my mom, my dad, my husband, you know, my sister was almost going to come as well. So it's just it's family affair. Yeah, just have everyone's a party. Yeah. Yeah, you can absolutely do that in our own birth. saw somebody post on Facebook, like a mom's group tonight to ask if somebody knew at this particular hospital when their other child would be allowed to come and visit to meet the baby. And I just thought that's, you know, I mean, that's the norm. Like for 98 % of people or whatever the stat is, like that's the norm that, you you like have to have like, yeah. And like even like, can't imagine how stressful that must be to want a physiological birth in a hospital and have another child. And how do you set up the care for that other child if, you know, it really does kind of like force you into considering timed things like induction or C-section so that you can have some control because yeah, the uncertainty of physiological labor and birth doesn't really work with today's, you know, time constraints that are literally placed on everything. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, yeah, a family. The stress of especially like if your child is quite young or they struggle being away from you, like how long are they potentially going to be away? And then trying to be in a particular mind frame and thinking about your other child like, are they okay? know, hopefully they're not, you know, like, you know, being a pain to a child. yeah. All those, yeah. She's great, but she is hard work and that would have stressed me out. Like I even said like, don't, nobody take her away. Nobody take her for a sleepover or anything. Like you come and you look after her at her home because I would be personally freaking out trying to have another baby and just be constantly thinking about Delilah and is she okay? So being at home and having her is... here, like at home where she belongs is just such a better option. And then yeah, you don't know how many people you can like have in there. don't know when they can visit. They've got visiting hours. You don't even know necessarily like if you're going to get to hospital, there's going to be a room for your people having to birth, you know, in the emergency area or like a room like you don't know what the hospital is going to be like. Yeah, it's been pretty chaotic since the whole COVID shmozzle. Yeah, yeah, Sharmel's a little less excited to put it. So you just never know what you're going to get into. But also there is that expense. A lot of people can't necessarily afford to have a home birth. it's something that you don't need all the fancy schmancy baby stuff. What you need to invest in is a positive. to have a positive pregnancy and birth. People spend hundreds of thousands on weddings and cars and this, that and the other and they don't think that their labor and their birth should cost them anything. They're just like, I'll be fine, I'll go through the public system. Yeah. I can, and I mean, prams, prams are very expensive, but they'd rather have, you know, the latest fanciest pram than to put that money into actually. Yeah. But I think people also just don't know that they have to do the work that the hospital is not on their side. The hospital's on the hospital side, not on the individual side. The hospital doesn't really care. Thank it's only worried about, you know, keeping itself running and. And you go to the or you go to the doctors or whatever, you go and you're sick. And pregnancy is not an illness. So why is it being treated like one? And then you go into hospital and they just monitor you and they stick you on all these machines and you things beeping at you and then you got all the bright lights on and then they might turn the lights off. But then someone new walks into the room and goes, why the lights off? They turn the lights off. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Or the air conditioner. Yeah. Most, most likely you have no control over the air conditioner because it's all centralized somewhere. And that does. Yeah. And that, you know, that like every, everyone feels differently in labor and like it's a very intricate sort of process. But I mean, I could literally speak for hours. I'm not. I feel very passionate about it. But it's been awesome to speak to you and to hear your story. And yeah, I'm really grateful to have this story out there in the world. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.