Homebirth after 42 weeks, the pros and cons of publicly funded homebirth, 3 planned homebirths || Mel's birth of Oscar, Zara & Archie (New South Wales)

This is the 62nd episode and it’s shared by mum of 3, Mel from Newcastle who shares her incredible stories with having 2 babies after 42 weeks and planning 3 home births through the publicly funded system. 

Mel chose to have a publicly funded homebirth with her first baby, but at 42 weeks, she was coerced into an induction due to the criteria of the program. After a 5 day induction, Oscar was born. 

For her second baby, she planned another homebirth with the the publicly funded program, however at 41+2 her baby girl Zara arrived before the midwives did, in a fantastic unassisted homebirth. 

For her 3rd baby, after choosing the PFHB program, as the clock ticked past that arbitrary cut off again, Mel connected with a privately practicing midwife and she was supported to have a fantastic homebirth   4 days later. This also happened to be on her mums birthday, who passed away the year before. 

I am so grateful for Mel who recorded with me when Archie was only 5.5 weeks old. I know these stories will mean a lot to so many listeners. 

As we talk about in the ep, going past 42 weeks is a rarity these days so please make sure to share the ep in whatever way you can.

Resources: 

• Post dates baby - Induction of Labour https://www.rachelreed.website/blog/induction-of-labour-for-prolonged-pregnancy
• Post Dates Birth https://consultations.health.gov.au/health-services-division/pregnancy-care-guidelines-review/supporting_documents/Prolonged%20pregnancy%20evidence%20evaluation%2015Oct18.PDF
• Meconium in post dates baby https://midwifethinking.com/2015/01/14/the-curse-of-meconium-stained-liquor/

Transcript

0:02

This is Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsa, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys, a doula in Melbourne supporting birth at home. I'm a mental health nurse and the co-creator of Home Birth Victoria. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast or my work as a doula, check out www.birthingathome.com.au. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Nam, Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. This is the 62nd episode and it's shared today by Mama 3, Mel from Newcastle, who shares her incredible stories with having two babies after 42 weeks and planning three home births through the publicly funded system. Mel chose to have a publicly funded home birth with her first baby, but at 42 weeks she was coerced into an induction due to the criteria of the program. After a five day induction, Oscar was born. For her second baby, she planned another home birth with the publicly funded program. However, at 41 plus two, her baby girl Zara arrived before the midwives did in a fantastic unassisted home birth. For her third baby after choosing the publicly funded home birth program, as the clock ticked past that arbitrary cutoff once again, connected with the privately practicing midwife and she was supported to have a fantastic home birth just four days later. This also happened to be on her mum's birthday, who passed away the year before. I'm so grateful for Mel who recorded with me when Archie was only five and a half weeks old. I know these stories will mean a lot to so many listeners. As we talk about in the episode, going past 42 weeks is a rarity these days. So please make sure to share the episode in whatever way you can enjoy. Welcome Mel to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Hi, thanks for having me. Thank you for joining me. Do you want to give a little bit of background to who you are, Mel? Who's in your family? Where you're located? That type of thing? Sure. So I have a family of five now, so I've got, I live in Newcastle and I've got now three kids. So I've got Oscar who's five, Zara who's two, and then now Archie who's about five and a half weeks. Yeah, amazing. And just a bit of context, I, for the listeners, I reached out to Mel with some pictures and story that I saw about Archie recently because you were in a publicly funded program. Yes. Yeah. But then you went over the 42 weeks is my understanding. And I thought that that was that would be a really interesting story. But then, yeah, also found out that you planned a home birth with Oscar, who's five. And then you had a home birth with Zara, who's two. So Home birth mom. Yes. Yeah. Planned it from the start. Just didn't always, didn't always happen that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I suppose to start off with, because yeah, three, three planned home births. Like that's not super common these days. How did you find out about home birth? Uh, it's a good question. I was thinking about this the other day. I think, um, one of my good friends went through the publicly funded hospital. that you were talking about. And she had a home birth. And that was probably the first I'd been exposed to as in like in a close capacity. I guess before that, I didn't really know anything about home births and probably thought it was very rare and yet didn't have any experience around it. And everyone else that I knew and all my other friendship group all went through hospital systems. So then it got me to look because we're quite like minded in that way. So then it encouraged me to look into it when I had when I fell pregnant with my first. Yeah, and asked her all about it and just you know, she had such a positive experience and then she had a circle of friends that were all similar like all planned home births as well. So yeah, just got me exploring and then I think I think originally was kind of like, yeah, like the idea that you can kind of have it in hospital there if you want or you can. And so I think more so I was going for the non-intervention pathway, not necessarily thinking home birth. And then when I first got assigned my midwife, she started talking more about home births and how really like it's less disruption at home than going into their birth suites. And so then it swung around that way. So we went, yeah, we didn't go into it actually. I'm remembering this now. We didn't go into it thinking we're having a home birth. We just wanted more like a low intervention. Yeah. And I was pretty confident with like the non-medicated side of things, which is what this hospital offers. Like you don't have, yeah, there's no doctors on site kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so growing up, did you, do you remember like knowing about home birth or like anything like that? all. I honestly reckon, yeah, kind of think, I think it was just one of those things that it seemed like just really alternate people. had home births and yeah, really unheard of. I feel like any time there was talk of home birth, it was like a very like stereotypical, stigmatized kind of thought process with everyone that I knew, like no one, yeah, no one ever talked about it from an experience of knowing someone that had one or anything like that growing up. So yeah. Yeah. And yeah, so that's quite amazing that you, yeah. happen to have a publicly funded home birth program in the area that you are. Do you like remember, I suppose, how you got into that? Like, did you have to get referred from the GP or like, did you just contact them or? I remember. Yeah, I do remember because I was at work and thinking, oh, I need to them because I knew that they like the group practice for midwives generally is like can be hard to get into or I'd heard that and so I was a bit like, oh, I need to be really urgent with this. And I think I thought I had to wait to the 12 week mark. So I think I waited till like, I was pretty much on 12 weeks and then called them and I remember calling a few times and it was hard to kind of get through to them. And yeah, and then got into them and and yeah, just got assigned a midwife that way. And then found out after that you can kind of call from pretty early on. yeah, but yeah, no, that's so was lucky I they had availability when I needed them and I didn't have any issues that way, which was handy. yeah. And so you were saying just before that Oscar ended up being born in hospital. And part of that was because he was born after 42 weeks. Is that right? Yes. Did you like, do you remember obviously, yeah, five years ago is a little bit of time ago, but do you remember like having any particular thoughts about the exclusion inclusion criteria? Like, did that like play on your mind at all? Honestly, I had no idea. And I think I was really thrown. think, I think the other thing too, when within group midwife practice was the idea that you get the one midwife that carries through your whole pregnancy. So that was something that I really found valuable rather than just kind of random people. And so, yeah. So when I had my midwife, it got up until like, I reckon it was either 40 or 41 weeks that I had still had no idea that it was really a thing or hadn't, it hadn't really been like talked about until it got to that end point. And then I remember my wife saying at the 41 week appointment with her, like she came to my house for visits and she was like, okay, so your next visit at 42 weeks will actually be at like the John Hunter Hospital, which is like our local, just big public hospital. she did kind of just say, you know, they might, they might, they'll be pretty like. just like they will try to push you into the induction process. Remember that you can say no, that kind of thing. But it was like still very like generalized. I didn't. Yeah. then I think. you feel like it wasn't like explicitly clear that home birth will be off the table after 42 weeks? I think. Yeah, I think at that point, that was when we must have had a discussion. I don't really remember. But I think it was kind of like. I'm sure maybe along way it was like, yeah, after 42 weeks, you get changed over to John Hunter. I don't think it was ever explicitly talked about and whether it was kind of vaguely mentioned. And I just never really thought about it because I just hadn't hadn't really heard of anyone else going through that problem, like, you know, being faced with that issue or but yeah, I definitely don't remember any conversations where we had to be like until the very last minute of being actually completely changed over in care providers. I think I even thought after going to the 42-week appointment that I could still just come home. They would be persuasive in trying to get me to start the induction process. But I could just be like, no, no, I'm good, thank you, and then just come home and then still go with it. then I do remember, I know, it must have been a few days before it. And I do remember after that appointment, coming home and knowing. It was the eve of 42 weeks and if I didn't have a baby that night, I couldn't have a home birth. But then I think I still kind of thought that I was still kind of supported by my original midwife from there and not really realising that it was completely like, no, our care ends here. Wow, so after when that switched into hospital, then you lose the... the continuity midwife as well. Holy moly, what the heck? got a text or something from my midwife, but that's just her kind of personally willing to reach out. But it was nothing to do with the, like, yeah, literally your care ends there at 42 weeks. Yeah. I am now that you're saying it, like I've, because my first Murphy who was born in April, 2020, he, I had a private midwife, but they had visiting rights in a hospital. But I actually, yeah, I'm trying to think like, I don't think that it was explicitly stated to me, at least that I remember that part of accepting that option was that after 42 weeks, they wouldn't support me at home, they would be able to support me in the hospital where they had the visiting rights. But yeah, so I ended up paying for Murphy sorry, at 41 plus five at home, but it was so stressful. can't imagine like in your position, though, like on by having to also change the complete care providers. Like, that's crazy. it was really, yeah, I think just I just never knew that I just never thought about having a deadline. Like I just I knew that people getting juiced. I knew about inductions and I knew that like, it was common for the main hospital here to do inductions, like push them from about, I think definitely from 41 weeks. Yeah. Yeah, definitely just didn't. I think in my mind, it was just like, this is my home birth ended. And then I think I just kind of thought, you know, now I just kind of turned into the other system and I'll yeah, labor at home and kind of go from there. But yeah, no, definitely, definitely the deadlines definitely weren't emphasized or yeah, until that very last minute. And then it's just, yeah. Yeah, almost. So it really heartbreaking. Yeah. heartbreaking. What was your labor and birth life with Oscar? Like how many weeks were you when you actually went into labor? So what happened was I went to that 42 week appointment at the John hospital, John Hanna hospital. And I basically like, I got a cop, I did like a scan, did all the thing is just to check everything. Everything was all like noted as fine. you know, still had plenty of fluid around it, all that kind of thing. And, but then they were like, okay, because you are 42 weeks. We want you to start your induction like ASAP. Do you know all the risks? And it was like straight away, like so much talk on like stillbirths and like how risky it was that I was here at 42 weeks and hadn't been induced yet. so that was also really like, cause I just kind of thought it was a checkup appointment and then like, yeah, they'd say, you know, This is the time that we encourage inductions, but it was so much more than that. Like, and we, was to the point that we had a doctor come in, talk to us about all those risks saying like, you know, still birth risks have increased rapidly, you know, all these kinds of things. And then we were like, okay, but you just did all these tests and everything was fine. So, and then she ended up like saying, well, you know, if you're not going to stay here now for reduction process, I'm going to have to go get. like a senior doctor or someone else that was there and brought them in and who also did the same big like speech. And so we had both of them like in this little room, just like Brad and I, my husband. And yeah, and it was so overwhelming because and so confronting because obviously like we'd never had a baby before. So we like all that talk was kind of like really full on. Yeah. Just like how I just had, I was like, I'm not going to just stay in here now. I'm not ready to just be induced. this afternoon and we kind of talked about it because I like, you know, can you do I knew about server Dylan, I'd heard like, used to be able to do the tape thing and go home and I was like, is that still like if I was to get that tape? Does that mean I go home tonight and still may like no, no, that's all changed. Like once you start getting the induction process, you're in here. You know, that's until you have your baby. Anyway, so it took it took a lot of persuading and I felt like for us like to be like, no, we're okay. Just to even just go home that night and I just ended up agreeing to, I said, can I just go home tonight because I'm not quite at that. I think I must have been like 41 and five or maybe it was 42, but like, I think I thought I had until midnight to go into labor and then before the other hospital cut me off. So I think I was like, no, I just want to go home today. And if nothing happens overnight, then I'll come back tomorrow and then potentially start the process. And they were like, look, you'll have a baby by Wednesday. And this was on a Sunday. And I think they said that, if I didn't got him just on the Monday, we'd have our baby by Wednesday. And so we went home and I was just like, I just remember being so upset and I felt so, I was really annoyed, but I was also really like, I'm one of those people that like to please everyone. So I felt like I was in trouble. I felt like I'd just been scolded by the principal for like not having a baby yet and not forcing it out yet. Yeah, especially when they bring in the big guns, like they bring in the senior obstetrician. Talk about coercion. they heard of the word coercion? Yes, it was so full on. like, obviously first time parents too. I just, yeah, I didn't know. Like, and I think in hindsight, I wish that even my midwife that I had still kind of technically. could have come to that appointment. We just felt so backed into a corner with no one helping support us except for us who didn't really have much knowledge or experience. I just knew that I feel really comfortable. I didn't feel like I needed to get this baby out of me. And also I was doing a lot of safe things. I was letting them do all these scans and checks and they were telling me everything was perfect. felt really like it was just really conflicting. So I'm like, why am I being made to feel like I'm being a really bad mom or like, you know, doing something wrong when everything is else is showing that everything's fine. Yeah. And we came home and just sat in the lounge room that night and it had like the fairy lights and everything set up because like the home verse space and I just like sat there just so sad. I'm like, yeah. And so I think it all kind of came to a head on that day. That was when it fully the gravity of the whole, this is it now situation really unfolded. Wow. Did you end up agreeing to the induction thing? So yeah, so then the next day, yeah, we like packed a bag for me and went in to went in on that Monday. And then it was just like the like, so we went on on the Monday. I think I got the, is it the server dual at the tape thing on that Monday. And then I had to stay in hospital from then. And I remember like each day that passed, whatever I was like, I immediately that night, think it was, I could have been, it was either that night or the second day I ended up getting those, I know, I always forget it, those balls things like the. cervical balloon wrapping and catheter. I got them the next day because like the first process didn't really work. then, yeah, and I remember all of a sudden getting like really bad back pain. And so I wasn't sleeping because I was like in such pain. And so I was in a shared room with all these mums that had just given birth. And so yeah, that was already a thing. And then I just kept going to the shower. which is also shed like, you know, public showers and just like hammering the hot water in my back. So it was just like in so much pain. So I, my assumption is that once they started the process, it was like he rotated and like went the spine to spine or whatever you call it. And so then I, this was the Tuesday when I got those ball things. The Wednesday they were like, we're going to break your waters. And then the hospital was just like so inundated. They were so, so busy. It was just like, I remember each day they'd kind of give us a time and then it had ended up being like three, four hours after that time. So Brad would like, you know, race there to be with me. And then we'd just be sitting around like waiting all day. And so on this Wednesday, they were like, I remember it being so early. was like say like 7am, we're going to break your order. So Brad like shot there, got out really early. And then it got to, I think it was like, It was evening, was like say like 6pm at night, my waters ended up breaking themselves because we were just waiting that whole day in in this birth suite room and we were like freezing, I was, had all this back pain. I was doing laps so that I remember just being like, I'm so determined this baby's just gonna like, I was doing laps around the hospital and they kept being like, just like, you know, lay down in a bed and rest and I was like, no, I'm gonna, like I was doing all the like ball rotations and everything, just like, I'm gonna move this thing along as much as I can help. But yeah, so it got to... The Thursday, I didn't even know what we did, but nothing happened. I think I must have liked that. I think they started doing the drip on the Thursday. And then I think that Wednesday when my waters broke, they were kind of like, that's handy because that means you can actually stay in the burst suite now. Otherwise they were going to send me back to the shared room again. And they were like, Brad can stay too. And so he like stayed in this little mattress on the ground. They pulled together and we were so cold. Like it was like. just crazy cold aircon and they had told us originally that we're having a baby by Wednesday. I feel like each day Brad just had to keep bringing me more things. my goodness. Yeah. we were just like, and because it was so hot outside, Brad like came in shirt and boardies and he's like had this little hospital blanket and just sleep on the floor. then, yeah, so think the Thursday was just like a day spent of like getting contractions, but still like nothing substantial and then just like spending the day amping it up. And then we didn't end up, I didn't end up having him till I think it was 12, 10 or something. technically he came on the Friday. So I was in there from Monday to Friday. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So I don't know. To me, I'm just like, this is just this reassertion that this baby wasn't ready. My body wasn't ready. And then also because he'd rotated, he just like, you know, nothing like the drip and everything just wasn't helping. Like my contractions just weren't. helping him move down or anything because he was so like wedged in in the end. then that led to an epidural, which I held off on for so long and then they got to the point they were like, come on, like you've been here for days, like you need to just like, nothing's progressing. And they did like a manual rotation. Yeah. And so then, and then I remember having the last little bit of, they came in doing the whole like, Okay, it's been like an hour of pushing or whatever. And if you don't have this baby in the next 10 minutes, and they'd already like told Brad that like, most likely I was gonna end up having a caesarean. And I was just like, it's not happening. I couldn't feel a thing with this silly epidural. I don't know why people like them. But I was just like felt like my eyes were popping out of my head. And like, it's like my head was gonna blow off because I was just like trying to push so hard, but it couldn't feel the rest of my body. And I was like, And I don't know, maybe it's just like a stronger dose or maybe my body just didn't take as well. So I've heard of people just being out of like stand up and stuff still in epidural, but I was like, could not even like put any weight on a leg or anything like I was just like, so like I just felt like I was just numb from like my chest down. couldn't feel or control anything. So yeah, pushing for like an hour and like not being able to feel a contraction and just being told like push now. And I'd be like, they're just trying so hard. honestly thought my like I was going to get like. blood blister in my eye or something from pushing. Oh my goodness. But yes, so I gratefully avoided cesarean and I avoided any other like episiotomies and all that kind of thing and ended up having vaginally, I was just like, that was just like my big win for me because I was like, and I was aware that induction processes can, you know, lead one thing to the other. So every step of it just really frustrated me because I just was really like, again, I just felt like I was backed into it. Yeah. And was just going with it because that's what and I would like, and I was being as active in things as I could do, but also just feeling like I had no choice. Like I just was like, yeah. And especially like looking like what you can look back now, having had Archie as well. How, how many weeks was, and was Zara born? So Zara was 41 and two. Yeah. Yeah. And so then Archie also like, just. Yeah. I mean, it's just wild. How many, how much resources did they put into that whole process when you could have just been chilling at home? You'd accept it like. Yeah. could, yeah. could just go out my day. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And in the end, like Oscar was like, it must've been 42 and four, I think, which is exactly what Archie was. And like, just reflect and go like. Isn't it? Yeah, it's just so crazy that like, I had, you know, four days or whatever of trying to force this baby out when, as you say, I could have just been living life normally and then just let him come in his own terms. Yeah. Yeah. But also that, yeah, it's, it's such a huge issue, obviously, that like, not all women have the same, availability of like choices, you know, like in public, if, you can't afford a private midwife or you don't know that there's really a difference or like, you know, even some private midwife, like, you know, private independent quotation marks, like they have their own limits and whatnot. But like, if you don't know these little subtle differences, then yeah, because like some private midwives go beyond 42. supported a mom earlier this year that she went to first time mom, she went to 42 plus four, home birth. like, you know, not everyone can pay for a private midwife. It's like so, so problematic for any way. And so after you had Oscar, what do you remember what your mindset was? in terms of like home birth for Zara? I felt really deflated after Oscar's birth because I think a big one was because I really wanted to support home births and I felt really deflated that I couldn't achieve that and then all the people around me including our family they all just thought we were crazy. to want a home birth. And I think we actually hid it from them. We were talking about this a little bit just before Archie, because we had a birth pool and we had to like, because we live really close to our parents, like my dad lives just up the road, or my parents live just up the road. Brad's parents live next door. And so it's like lots of like, you know, pop-ins and things like that. So we like had to hide this birth pool until the very like, because we'll just like imagine if they walk in and there's just this pool in the living room, how are we going to explain that? So we completely hid it from them. Yeah. Oh my goodness. And then we had fairy lights up and we were just like, oh yeah, because he was January. So I think we just like, yeah, we just kind of left them out from Christmas. Yeah, so was like we were reflecting on this the other day. We were like, I've forgotten how much, like, which is cool in that transition. And I kind of get to that once we get to Archie's birth. like it was started with like, they would have absolutely freaked out. And my mom was already, they were already stressed about going through Bellman, I think. which is sorry, the hospital we went through that had the group with free practice that do like the, you know, no intervention or that kind of thing. were already like, I remember my mom being like, melt, like drugs is what gets like gets you through the birth and stuff. I'm like, no, well, like, I don't want that. I want to be able to have a natural birth and just kept having to like reassure them that, you know, if anything does happen, it's like a 10 minute ambulance ride to the other big hospital with the doctors if need be. But yeah, so was already like so kind of unheard of that we were just going through a midwifery practice with no doctors. I remember my mom offering to pay for like private hospital and stuff. was like, if that's what you're worried about, I'll pay for it. was like, no, that's not what I'm worried about. want to really like, I just want to be able to have a birth there. I'm not getting like drugs and you know, all that kind of So yeah, so then I guess at the end of that process, I was like, did everyone else just kind of win? Like it was like in my eyes, it's like not a competition, but just more like I couldn't even like advocate for home births because I couldn't have achieved one myself. And so I was really frustrated. And I was really frustrated with my body. was like, why couldn't I just have a baby like naturally and like, so it really made me question like my ability and all that kind of thing. Yeah. So I guess it got to, it got and it got to Zara and Yeah, we went through the same public midwifery group again. Yeah. And then this time we decided to get a doula and I thought if this does kind of happen where we do end up being like, you know, it does end up past 42 weeks, at least we have someone that can advocate and really like make us feel safe and provide that continuity, guess. Yeah, for sure. And someone that knows us and yeah, continuity. Exactly, because it felt like last time we walked in to that hospital and all our support was behind us and behind those doors as they shut kind of thing. it was definitely my thing because I was like, you know, can you go to the hospital with us if that ends up happening? It was all that kind of like emotional support, really. And I was really determined again to achieve a home birth. And then I think this time we didn't hide it as much, but we did actually, they knew that we going through the same system, but COVID actually helped us because she was in like one of the last kind of bouts of COVID coming through. so they were kind of saying, I think it was still like masks. And then it was like, if you do have COVID, then you can't have your birth support partner was like that kind of, yeah, which is putting a lot of like fear and like stress on. you know, pregnant mothers. And so then I remember that changing my mom's point of view, because she was like, yeah, like, you wouldn't want to expose you or your baby to like, you know, that hospital system with all the sickness and yeah, what's going on in there. And I was like, Yeah, yeah. And then kind of just like, slowly started to be like, Yeah, so then they've kind of said, maybe you actually keep safer to have it at home. So went even though all along, I'd like planned to have a home birth, it was like really actually helped us because and then yeah, so that that helped us. That was the one perk of COVID. How much safer is it? We're free of germs, like, you they come to us and all that kind of thing. yeah, and then I guess and then with her we got to I remember that day that I went into labor actually, Brad and I had a chat because it was like 41 and two and we were just like Oh, it must have been 41 and 1 maybe. So we had it kind of in the night. No, I think it 41 and 2 and we were kind of like, okay, what are we going to do here if we get to 42 again, because it's getting close now. Like it's a few days away kind of thing. Yeah, so I had that fear again and I actually, I felt it a lot more earlier this time because I actually knew about it. Whereas last summer, yeah, obviously didn't know until the end. So it definitely like played on my mind. most of the pregnancy. you feel like that was your especially because you'd like been bombarded at the end with Oscar about all of the risks of every, you know, possibility in birth? these endangering things. Did you have like any fears around anything like that with Zara? Definitely. Like I would be lying if I didn't say that it like I had clouded thoughts of like Yeah, I think still overriding was like I was just so determined to achieve a home birth. So I just really wanted to. but I was definitely like, and I think like that with Oscar too, that I was like, you know, I joined, I joined like these Facebook groups that were like 42 and beyond. And like, you know, I was doing all these like little background thing to like, you know, reassure myself that like, this people do have later babies. because I didn't know stories around me because everyone just gets induced and my mom got induced with all like me and my two brothers. And so was all like anyone knew it was like you go overdue, you get induced. So I definitely like, yeah, did a fair bit of like trying to find some stories that made me feel more confident and like, yeah, there was definitely insecurities there. But I, yeah, felt. But it was definitely helped having a daughter with Zara because now that I had that shrouded doubt of like, okay, what's gonna happen here? And I really didn't want that induction process and stuff again. It really helped because she had experience with a laid out baby as well. And then also she had lots of experience of like, you know, being at lots of different births and all the different. So it was nice to kind of have that as backup. Yeah. Yeah, because then I found even like the midwives that are like the midwife program that I was with like all they can really advocate for is knowing their babies up until 42 weeks really. So like they couldn't even like have much to offer me. Yeah. So then I wonder how many women get caught up in like that because that's I find it because here in Melbourne, there's four publicly funded programs and I think I've expressed some concern. because I do have home birth Victoria here. So I've expressed some concern with that continuity because that's, that's, that's just mean. having you, the midwife and then yeah, 42 weeks, just stops. And then you're like in this whole system. Like I wonder who made that rule. Cause I feel like that's a really, really bad rule. Like, I wonder, yeah. And I feel, think even this time my midwife is kind of like my midwife through the group practice was like, I think the rules just kind of changed again. Like it was like, if you're not in active labor by midnight of like your 42 weeks, or is it like, yeah. So like, was like, it's something like they've been bringing it forward a little bit to like, really not allow you to be like over 42 at all. Yeah, so it's crazy. think it's like, yeah, by midnight before you check over to 42 weeks seems to be that cut off now rather than like, I think she was saying before, if you went into active labour before your appointment that was made on that 42 weekday, you were still able to go through them, something like that. There's like this little it's so anyway, say it's potentially taken away, you know, six hours or so, which could still like some women have their babies within six hours. Yeah, exactly. my gosh. Did you do anything like different or additional apart from the doula like between the pregnancies with Oscar and Zara? As in like to try and move things along? as in general? during pregnancy? I probably did more with Oscar to be honest, as in like I was that first time pregnant. person, mom that had time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So was like, Acro aerobics. And I think I did like, you know, prenatal pilates. I although I did. I never really thought it and I did all the like, natural induction methods, you know, the dates, all that kind of stuff. But I do feel that I didn't ever really think of that thought. I just thought it was all like, you know, to help help have a better I don't think I still never thought of like to make sure that you don't go over 42 weeks. I never had that thought. so it wasn't till the later ends that I remember my midwife was like, Oh, have you heard about acupuncture? And so I went there at like maybe 40 or 41 weeks. And I remember the acupuncture was being like, this is pretty, like, you told me to come now. This is pretty late for like an induction process. Like I'll do what I can like amp it up. It must have been like, yeah, maybe that last week or so. with Zara I did acupuncture the whole way through. Yeah, I did Cairo the whole way through. Yeah. But I mainly also because I had, I had a really, I had sore hips with Oscar and then I had a really sore pelvis with both Zara and Archie and like a bit of the pubic, symphysis kind of stuff. Yeah. So I mainly went for that. But then I also was like, I had a really good labor with like a good birth with Zara that I was like, I'm going to try and do everything that I did with Zara for Archie. So yeah, so I Cairo acupuncture throughout the whole thing, but didn't do the exercise stuff through Zara, I think. I think after I had her first child, any of my needs went out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. My priorities weren't great. And how did the labor start with Zara? Yeah, so Zara, I... Remember, Brad and I had this conversation on the way to like see our nephew and his partner and we were seeing them post Christmas and they were giving Oscar a present and we were like just hanging down the lake and I remember just being like subtly in the back of my mind being like, I actually think I'm in early labor because I felt like I had like the period kind of cramping. Yeah. And then it kind of like was like that throughout the day. And then I think I must have started getting some like, contraction type feelings, just like sporadic as the day progressed. And I, we were up at Mum and Dad's and I remember being like, I reckon I could have baby tonight. And they were like, really? Like, you know, bit of a buzz. And I was like, yeah maybe. And then they were also still really like, and this was the other thing about having later babies is everyone around you is so scared and so worried. it's so there was already so many like, you know, I reckon even a week before it was like, Oh, like, when are going to go and get him juice? Like, what, what, when's the end day? Like, what, what, what are they gonna like, let you go? Have you been checked? When's your latest check? Like, it's just so much like, particularly with our family members, and it's comes from a place of care, of course, but it was like, So, so burdening. So, it's just like the baby will come when it's ready. then you still have like, it still gets you down because again, I had those thoughts of like, you know, why don't my babies come? the normal time. Like, why do I get this extra pressure? And like, it just was really deflating. But yeah, so then I got to walk home thinking like, come on, let's just get this thing moving. Yeah. And then we came home and like did what you do when you prepare for babies and do things like clean the house and all the necessary items, bread, butter, mow the lawn. And then it got to say like, I don't know, it was like five or six and this was in summer. So it's still really light. And I was like having, I had the contraction timer on and they were starting to get a bit more close together and a bit more like, yeah, like where they start to get a bit like, Oh yeah, okay. It's feeling pretty. big now. And I remember Oscar climbing on my back like when I was having contractions and stuff like because he was so, so the three of us at his home. And no Brad was, I was like, okay, but I get, you know, sort of, just literally had toast sandwiches. And I think we knew by then that like, yeah, like there was definitely, I was definitely in labor and things are happening. But then I think we also both had in our minds like, this could like, I'm going to be laboring overnight and this could be a tomorrow thing. But like I am going into labor as we speak kind of thing. So Brad was out mowing and then it got to a point where I waved him and I'm like, we need to get sorted. this is getting intense now and like I think the lawn can wait. And we still had Oscar there so we're like, you know, we need to sort him out and stuff. And so it was really handy in the way that it happened. So it was like five or six PM or whatever when I felt like it was really starting to ramp up and we were able to just, I remember offering, said, I think mommy's gonna have a baby tonight. Would you want to be home for it or would you want to have a sleepover at Nan and Pop's?" And he was like, sleepover! He was so excited. I kind of had that thing of do I want my child to be part of it in some way? he was so excited to have a sleepover. And I was like, know, mommy might be noisy and loud and I want let you know that I'm okay. And he was like, no, sleepover. Nothing else in his mind. And he was just excited to it. So we packed him up and sent him off. We just like, it was like I could just focus into and we put, I was like, I just want a really easy watch movie on, I think we put up on like one of those cartoons. Yeah, yeah, I'm it was just like laying in couch. sad movie? Is the old Yeah, I think in hindsight it was, yes, but I wasn't focusing on it. I was, I found it really comfortable to just be like, um, I think I was, I think I was on my knees and like leaning over the lounge with my like elbows in the lounge. And I feel like the contractions are really frequent from like probably from like six-ish. And I think I just was like really in like I didn't watch much of the movie that's for sure of it Brad. Got to just kind of lay there and we were just you know just messaging the midwife and Adula and I was just kind of like yeah like just yeah that sounds good like that is now off and he progresses all that kind of thing and then got to I think my Adula was like She was out for dinner and she'd made it closer to us because she was like meant to go maybe 20 minutes away or something. She was like, no, I'll move it down to where you guys are. yeah, and then I think we in hindsight, Madeleine now tells me that we were definitely downplaying. But I just was like, I hadn't felt contractions before. So I think I just was like, this is like the start game that like got heaps of time and after Oscar's experience I was like this could be days. yeah, Yeah, and anyway, so she ended up coming over at like 9pm I think, but I'd maybe sent her a screenshot of the contractions and yeah, and then she came and like they started to try and fill out the pool and she got me to, I think she was like, so still in this like bent over position and I was doing like you know, sways and things like that, but I just really felt good being on that forward tilted position. she, yeah, was like, you been, have you gone to the bathroom or like, you know, gone for a walk in a while? And I was like, no, like, got me to go to the toilet. And then I came, went to walk back out and I think I must have had a few contractions in there and my water's like just broke. And then I think it was like 20 minutes later. I went back to my position on the lounge with like leaning over and they were still like madly trying to like fill this pool. like, think in the meantime, she was kind of like said to Brad like this, the pools are happening. And I think I was fine. Like I felt, I didn't know that I even would have ended up getting in the pool at that stage anyway, because I'd been in that stance and I really felt comfortable in that position for so long. And yeah, she ended up. birthing before the midwives actually got there. wow. Yeah, so I think that after the behaviour of like... that's so wild. Yeah, so I didn't, I actually still never have had a birth with the group practice. Like I realised after archery was like, still. Yeah, because you could have done the exact same thing with Oscar if they weren't even there. Yeah, I know. And so essentially a kind of free birth. Yeah. Yeah, and it was just like... most wild experience. just remember feeling like I was there's like a photo and I'm just like, like so I just remember being so excited and so like happily shocked. just I think because I also was like, I didn't realize it was going to be within this day that I'd have this baby. So I think she came like 10. Yeah, so yeah, I don't know. It was it was wild. And it's just spread out a little bit not having the midwives because Again, we hadn't had the experience of seeing a baby just kind of come out naturally through contractions and stuff. And so when her head came out and just kind of sat there for a minute, Sarah Madrula was great because she had seen it before and she was like, yeah, like all fine. And then when she just kind of like shot out on the next contraction, he still like kind of had a hand on my back and like one to kind of just like support her but didn't. Yeah. like we didn't realize she was shooting after that so she just kind of went like plonk onto this like large cushion on the ground and it was just all like so fast and in that like active stage. I guess not having the pull and like not feeling like I guess he yeah I guess he did really none of us really realized that how progressed I really was. But I loved that like I loved I was like that was cool and then we were so stoked. that night we were both on such a hike, we just climbed into our own bed and we're like, how nice is it not being in that freezing cold hospital? Sleeping on the floor. Yeah, and Brad was like, I had to go home. He was like, I would be going home right now because I couldn't stay the night with you. Just so many opposites. And I was like, it's so true. With Oscar too, he ended up swallowing my Coney as he came out. And then in hindsight I'm like, learning more about meconium and later stage babies I've learned that that's actually really normal for them to have those poos which I thought that was the reason he but I think more so that he had such a strenuous week of trying to come out he needed some oxygen and they took him to Nikyu I was so deflated and tired on this I couldn't even I remember just like being happy but not even being able to like keep my eyes open because I was just so exhausted and like also under the effects of the epidural, guess. so Brad went with Oscar to Niku and I was just like left in his birth suite, just laying there like I was like talking to my mom and messenger or texting her or something. then I just kind of fell asleep because I was like, I didn't I literally didn't have any energy left, which is weird to think that I wasn't even on a high enough to like push through that. But I was so out of it. but you had like other stuff like going on in your body as well. it just, yeah. Like what a contrasting experience. And so like, yeah. So like we lost your bread, went home that night, came back the next morning. We like, it wasn't till like probably 9am. Cause I couldn't even like, I was like, I remember just not even being able to walk. was so like kind of butchered up and just swollen and sore. And I couldn't even like take myself to meet you to go meet. actually see my baby properly. So it was probably like 9am or something the next day when I had him at 12. That we actually went and saw him in Niku. Yeah, it's just such a stark contrast to Zara literally having Oversitis in our bedroom and just going to sleep in our comfy bed. even just after it, the magic part for me too is after Zara. When I first birthed her, the midwives came say like 10 minutes later, so she was still like attached to the placenta. And they came for like the birthing of that. And anyway, we were like, like, let's get my mom here. just- No, was with Brad's parents. Yeah, okay. So that my mom was- Yeah. Yeah. And so she took a while and we were like, we just, think Brad just kind of said, are you able to come and help? And we just were like surprising her. So she knew that I was in labor. But just so she was like, I took time because I was there going like, what do I need? Like, I'm probably going to be there for hours. I could need a jumper. like, you know, she was like, try to think of like what she needed to bring down. then she by the time she came, I ended up being like, they moved me to the toilet to like, try and get this person and moving along. mom came in just thinking she was there to like help me in labor. And I was like, on my toilet holding Zara. And I was just like, hey, and she was so shocked, but it so magical because like she came into this like peaceful calm environment and she was the person that had always been so scared of non-intervention bursts because of her experiences. And it was just such a game changer. And it was just, and then like a couple of hours or she wouldn't let dad come down until it was like not so, like she was like, you know, Mel just needs to like clean up and all that kind of stuff. And then dad came down too. So it was like. You know, like midnight, 1am or whatever and both my parents were sitting in our lounge room holding their new granddaughter. decide the visiting hours. Yeah, and they were just like, we couldn't believe it, just walking in. It was just like beautiful lighting. There was this pool that wasn't filled up in the lounge room. Yeah, that's my dad's favorite part. He's like, just coming in and seeing this pool set up in your lounge room. Yeah, so that was really cool. And so then like after her birth, you know, sitting there with the midwives, my parents, Brad, just all like sitting on the couch, having a bit of food or whatever. And then I was just like, okay, everyone go home. And we went to bed, say like two or three am. Yeah. And people just left and it was just so seamless and not like, when are visiting hours? Like, when can we come and see you? And like, you know, so it was so much more detached being in the hospital. Yeah. And I felt so good. Like I was I bounced back so quickly. Yeah, I didn't I needed this. stitched but it wasn't anything crazy. And yeah, just felt like the recovery and everything was just so much quicker and nicer. And yeah, and like in the morning, Oscar was able to just, as I say, Brad's parents live next door, we really spread out over here. And so they were able to just like come over and like Oscar was still in his pajamas and could just come and meet his baby sister and we could just like kind of have breakfast and sit in the lounge room and... It's just so easy and calm, not one of my parents, our parents had to even get in a car. Yeah, yeah. We were so close. just yeah, so nice. Yes, it's such a stark experience. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. It's so beautiful, but I just can't believe how I mean, I can believe it, but it makes me sad that seemingly so many women think that that's just how it is. There's no other way, you know. with Oscar and like this had to happen and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But most women aren't even getting to 42 weeks anyway, they're having that induction talk like at 39 weeks, you know? for sure. Yeah, yeah, it's actually just quite sad. And so with Archie, did you, you know, I guess off the back of Zara and like, I guess with what I'm thinking of is that when I had Murphy, it was 41 plus five. And then with Frankie, everyone said, oh, like, either the label will be shorter, or it will come quicker. Or, you know, you hear all these stories, and you have all these ideas about how it will play out. And yeah, so Frankie did come at like, 40 plus three, but my had prolonged rupture of membranes for three days, or almost three days. But like off the back of you know, now having Zara at 41 plus two. What were your thoughts about Archie? you know, cause you've gone into the, you went into the same continuity program. Yeah. Yeah, I did. And I think in hindsight, I am kind of kicking myself for that. So I don't, I don't know. I think not, not really. Like I, I guess I still lacked their system. for its overall like they, you all the midwives, they're great. They're, they're all so good at their job. And I was like, you know, this is, Zara was earlier. So I think maybe it was more, I was lulled into that if she was earlier than potentially the next baby. Yeah. Will be earlier and surely not going to go fast 42 weeks. And I don't think I, I don't know, like, I think I had a little bit of thought to it, but I didn't feel like a big stress this time. And I actually thought, Actually more thought that it would be or maybe I talked myself into thinking that they always say that the baby's third births throw a spanner in the works like they're wild card. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, you know, my wild card is going to be that I'm going to go early. Yeah. 37 weeks. I'm going to work up until the end of this time. It's just going to like, I'm just going to go to go to work one day and it'll just be like, Oh, no, sorry. Yeah. don't know. There's just all these. I think I was just kind of talking myself into it in hindsight. Brad and I both kind of talked ourselves into it in a way. I mean, I was still all so like, you know, very aware of the fact that that could may not happen. But yeah, there were a few different things this time, like my other two, I'm a teacher. So the other two were January and February, and I had the whole like Christmas break off. Yeah, yeah, Prior to them. Whereas Archie was Like he was due like the holidays of term three. And so I was working like I was like, I may as well just work up until the end. And also I made several jokes on the way like, we all know he's not going to arrive till November. So like, obviously I have time. So I'll work until the holidays. And I was due on like the first day of the school holiday. So was like, you know, due date to me means nothing like I probably still have weeks, but then also internally being like, surely not this time. Yeah, and I felt physically even more like I struggled this time, like, um, just like my pelvis and felt, guess everything sits a bit lower potentially, or maybe he just, I don't know. I just felt like he was sitting lower and a lot of people towards the end, like maybe from like 37 weeks were like, no, you're definitely like sitting lower. So it's like, yeah, you know, this is all great. Like everything's like setting itself up and then, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I did go through the same. Kerrigan had a different midwife this time around. Cause we attempted to go a different route, like obviously publicly funded, you know, means you're not spending six, seven, eight, sometimes $10,000 on, you know, otherwise private midwives. Was that like ever like something that you like pro-con or you just. Yeah, I don't, I don't know why I didn't really think, I think I didn't know much about private midwives. And I think I looked up. briefly before and I think maybe cost was a bit of a factor. Cause it was like, you know, I had Zara for free. I guess in that frank. I was like, you know, if I, like I didn't, and I don't think I was really, I, yeah, I think if I was, if someone had told me that I was definitely gonna have a later baby, then I would have thought more seriously about it. But I think, as I say, I just felt like I had a false sense of comfort and I did get my same dualer again, Sarah. So I guess I was like, no, that'll be like my setup again. Yeah. That's my kind of backup if needed. yeah, and I think, yeah, I didn't really know much about private mid-bass and I accept the cost really. yeah. And then I think it wasn't till towards I reckon I was in third trimester when a few people won of a friends within the friendship group that I was saying, home births is a lot more normalised than by now. Lots of them have had three home births. Back then, there was probably only a couple that had had their first through home birth or whatever. But yeah, one of them got to 42 and one, I think, and she had a private midwife. And that really changed my mind set because I was just like... Oh no, this can happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, hadn't really like, was like, surely it's not going to be the case again. So then and then I started like having conversations with people and hearing more and more stories about people having their third after 42 weeks or like on 42 weeks or it was like, it was like a lot were like on 42 or like 42 and one. Yeah. And so wasn't until yeah, the latest stages that I was like, Oh, I don't know why I just thought this could be so different this time. Yeah. So like the, the, so from what I understand, I think is that you, you switched out to a private midwife at the, like at the very, very end. Yeah. After the deadline. Yeah. Yeah. And so before that you'd sort of been developing this awareness that this other sort of option kind of like exists and like this is. sort of allowed in the private midwife world to go beyond 40 or not allowed but like support like midwives will support you. But like you'd not really like booked anyone in or like given anyone the heads up kind of thing. I think still I was just like, trying not to not to dwell on it and I hadn't really put I'm a bit of like a cruiser in a lot of ways. And I think I was trying to go with the like, let's just go with it approach. So I literally hadn't even like, actually sat there and gone, okay, what will I do until it was the 42 mark or maybe like a day or two before. And then I was like, okay, this is getting real now. It's a day or two away. And I got a few stretch and sweeps because I was like, Yeah, really trying to like, I want to be able to have and I yeah, and my midwife is kind of like, come on, you can't have this. You to 42 weeks. Yeah. so then it was literally, I think that day that I had ridden all the highs and lows of like, thinking I had so many little signs along the way to in those last few weeks, you he just gets so many little niggles. And then obviously, after the stretch and sweeps, they mentally threw me out a lot because I'd get Like I think after the first one, I had some like spotting and stuff, like nothing crazy. But then I also got some cramping or like some tightening. And then the next day I lost my mucus plug. So I was like, oh yeah. And then it had just kind of like nothing again. Then a few days later I got another one and then the same kind of thing. Just like, you know, the cramping and all that kind of stuff. So was really like, I really didn't enjoy it. I was starting to get mentally over it by that last, I mean, as you do. Lots of times throughout the last trimester, but yeah, it was like really frustrating. So I think I was also like, mentally, I just didn't want to think too much about it. And then until it kind of got to it. And even that night, I remember like I wasn't, I didn't have that same feeling I did with Oscar where I was like really deflated. just, that night I just remember talking to my midwifery like 9pm or whatever, and she kind of was like, you know, just letting you know that like, know, if it's not. midnight tonight, nerds cutter, like that's it for Belmond Audubar, like in a nicer way. know, I know and I was like, it's 9pm, there's not like, I'm about to go to bed, there's nothing happening, I was like, see ya'll. It was like, you can write me out, like I'm not going to be in active labour in the next hour. So yeah, so then I, and then I made Doola Sarah was kind like, you know. or I know that day I'd had a chat with her. That's right. We had a phone call and she was like, what are you thinking? I said, think, I think the option like we're just discussing it right now. We're discussing options. And it was kind of like, do we labor at home like most people do and then, you know, to up to the last minute and then just go and hopefully just have a baby is natural. Still it but through John Hunter. Yeah. And, then or B, free birth, which Brad was just like, no, I can't do it. And then three, you know, we see if there's any potential of getting a private midwife for the last like, you know, week or whatever it may be. So we discussed that and we both agreed that, and it was cool because Brad was also like, I don't want to, like, cause I thought he'd be like, let's just do the hospital thing. you know, a lot of people just do it, like just still can just use the birth suites and. transfer but I was like, I just can't imagine being in active labor and having to get in the car. But I know that a lot of people do it so I'm sure I can make it happen. Yeah, yeah, But it's obviously not ideal. And I think more so I just, it's not even like about so much of like wanting the achievement of having it at home again. And it was more just like, I don't want any of that intervention and I don't want to feel backed against a wall and I just like, it's really tarnished it for me. Like I just have no. have no faith in the system anymore, to put it frankly. And so we both said that our most comfortable option was if we were like money's money, like if we can get a private midwife and that fulfills everything. We don't have to stress about timing. We don't have to worry about trying to get to the hospital, kind of stuff. And we still achieve what we want to achieve. was talking to Sarah Madula about that and so then she kindly rang around. I think she talked to maybe like five different midwives that were all just like busy and then one that she really loved. She was on leave and but she was like when I heard your story I couldn't say no. I'm so thankful for Helen and anyway so Sarah was kind of like you need to I'd be ringing her tonight and this was like maybe eight or nine o'clock at night and I was like, oh, I don't have the mental power right now. I just want to kind go to bed for the night and just like see if anything happens and you know, and then I'll think about it fresh tomorrow. And so that was the way that I ended up doing it. yeah, and then I contacted Helen like first thing in the morning and then she came over like a couple of hours later and she lives an hour away. So it was a big effort for her. Yeah, I guess I didn't realize how much of a paperwork process there was. So was kind of like, you know, it's just like, like, you know, it's like, you're my midwife now. Like, that's just what happens, right. So I didn't really understand the stress that like, obviously, Helen and Sarah feeling because I was like, it's all right, let's just sleep on this. thought too in the morning. But yeah, so Helen said she spent about six hours also that day on this, just getting all the paperwork done. And yeah, so that was when it became. a changeover. yeah, at 42 and one I guess it was or 42. Maybe it was 42 when I had my and my group Midwife had already booked my appointment into the hospital. And so I also had like, you know, two and three conversations with her being like, like I was already like not intending on going to it. But then it was also a bit of a like awkward thing because you know, don't you don't want to be this rebellious person. It's like, yeah, I'm not doing that. So I was like lightly kind of like, yeah, so and I didn't even know if I definitely got one booked in anyway. She was like, yeah, yeah, your appointment's at tomorrow at 10 a.m. or something. I was like, okay, cool, might not go. And so then I was also chatting about that with Sarah and I was kind of like, I think I'd just not go to that one and then think about it again on like Monday or something, give it the weekend. then anyway, so then once we had Helen, it was just so nice because I didn't have to think about any of that anymore. point they got cancelled. was now under someone else's care. Essentially got discharged from that public system altogether. Yeah. And then that through in hindsight, that through at my postnatal care, yeah, hadn't really I hadn't thought through that either. So there's all these little things that I didn't really. Yeah, it was just all Yeah, it kind of just happened as it happened. Yeah, yeah. we went. When did you actually go into labour with Archie? So then. So, yes, that Saturday we got Helen at 42 weeks and then on 42 and 4 was the Wednesday. So essentially employed it for four days, which was good, because I was like, if I this baby like. the next day. Yeah, like fork out all this money for like a few hours. So it made me feel a bit now it was awesome. Anyway, like whatever money's money but to be able to like, you know, like, you know, achieve what I wanted to achieve. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, the the backstory of that too is a so on the Tuesday, Zara, we've met middle child, which we have talked about. you already know her name. has been like she we have co slept with all our kids. Always told ourselves we never would before kids. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, that old chestnut. So anyway, so Zara sleeps with us and she's like literally like sleeps having to like touch me. It probably sounds like your son always wants to know where you are. So she's like normally like either like kind of touching my face or like a boob or something. we in few weeks before like Brad's like come on we need to be doing something because like how are you gonna be sleeping with her and a baby? And I was like no I just feel like it have all played itself out. I feel like after you first you just I just just stress so much less about all that stuff. I'm like I feel like we put way too much effort and stress. on Oscar with all those things at this time, I'm like now whatever sort itself. anyway, so she, had, we did get a bed for her in the end and she'd been actually really enjoying starting the night in there and then at 11.30 every night she'd like wander down and come into bed with us. And so, which was like nice, like it was like, I'm like, this is a bit of a transition. At she knows she's got a space there. She does, you know, she'll sleep through one day. Yeah. And so that night on the Tuesday night, she came in like clockwork at 1130 and it's amazing that that it's the way that works, right? Yeah. It's like I feel like Murphy, Murphy sleeps through the night now, usually recently he's been like waking up, though, and like just crying and like, it feels like it's the same time every night. What is going on in your body? Yeah, assume it's like some part of their sleep cycle or whatever. But yeah, it is funny. Like, it's just like, yeah, and if it's ever a different time, I'm wow, she like, lasted a bit longer. But yeah, she, yeah, so she came wandering in and then I just kind of like scooped her into the bed and like, went just like roll over with her. And then I just felt like like that my waters are broken or like the filling and then I was like, I need to check this out. So I like went to get up to the other toilet. And for once she actually like wrote it's like, this is the other thing that's so like, you know how the world works. It's like they just have these little instincts, but she normally like better be like, hey, Zara just cuddle me and she'd be like, no. And like, even if I get up to go to the toilet, which was a lot when you're pregnant and like often she'd even just kind of sit up and like wait for me or like sometimes she didn't come to the toilet with me and stuff. But like that night she actually like, rolled into Brad and just was like, cuddled into him and I was like, Oh, this is cool. So like, felt like trickling as I went to go to the bathroom and yeah, so that was like my sign of that. And then the other factories, my mom passed away a year ago. no, two out now. But yeah, so like literally Wednesday, a year ago, but that, so it was 11.30 the Tuesday and it The next day it was going to be my mom's birthday. And so I was like, this is so insane. I'm literally going to have a baby on my mom's birthday. And so yeah, I went into the toilet and I was just like, yep, definitely water's broken. I was like, Brad and Sarah happy. started feeling like little contractions and I was like, yep, this is, on. And so I came out to the lounge room and I was like, I'll just like, I think I even downloaded it on the spot. And I was like, I've done that contraction up again. And like lay there. like, yes, so. Take it as it comes. It's like I even have it anymore. And yeah, I laid there and just started to like, the timing, I'm like, yeah, they're like consistent, but they were just pretty. And so again, I was doing the whole like, because both my dually and midwife were like, make sure after Zara's birth, you need to like, make sure you call us or like, let us know any little sign. But this had been weeks of like, was like, Hey guys, just letting you I had this sort of like, you know, just like, like so much like, I didn't call them with those, but like just little texts. So I'm like, I was like, I'll just send a text and then not wake them up yet. And then I felt like it was ticking it off for me. And I was like, I'll call them when it progresses. So I sent them both. I actually sent, I think I sent Sarah an my daughter an actual message, just being like, just letting you know my water's broken. I'm getting some contractions. Yeah, you know nothing crazy, but I'll let you know if they amp up. Yeah, and then I have actually just set a screenshot of the contraction app and no contact. I was just like, yeah, I'll just send her that and then I'll fill her in when I call her later. was like, am I sitting so weak? She wrote back straight away. And this was like nearly midnight by this station. was like, I got so thrown. I'm like, my gosh, sorry, I gave you no context. Oh yeah, by the way, so my water's broke and then I started tying this. She was just like, okay, this is a good sign. I think I'm going to leave in a minute. And I was like, what? Like thinking, yeah. And I guess she's an hour away. So she wanted to be like, yeah, but I still think it's that thing where you just never quite know how long you've got or. Totally, totally. And yeah. And then Sarah may, oh, and then I was like, oh, just go and let Brad know. like, just so you know, I'm in labor, but like, you know, I'll say it again. I'll let you know if anything else up. I was just like, okay, and like, you stay there and keep Zara asleep. And then I'd gone back out to like, and saw that my midwife had sent me another message being like, yep, so I'm leaving in 10 minutes. If you want your pool, start filling up now. okay. like went back down like, sorry. Hi again. so. I know what I said just a minute ago. Yeah, because I was like, we'll just kind of start to come and then maybe we'll all fill up this together and I don't know. Yeah, so went back and I was like, so Helen just said maybe you start, he's like, shoot something, he's like, yeah, okay, okay, because he was really bummed. But like we'd hired a pool twice, right, and hadn't used it. And then this time it was a, I hadn't even hired one because I was like. why hire one again, another lot of money that I'm just gonna not use. But then it was just worked out that Helen had one. then we decided to the pool liner. So I was like, that's another thing of fate of like, you know, it's meant to be maybe I do want to have it. And it did feel like something that I was like, worried about that I'd get to labor and be like, I wish I did have a pool. Yeah, was cool to like feel that as well. Yeah. But yeah, so Brad got up and then I had my friend Sam staying with us. And she wanted to like be part of the birth and also just like be basically like a repair in a way like she was just amazing. Like, yeah, I wanted to support in that postpartum period and stuff. So then I went to her room and I was like, Hey, just letting you know that I think I'm in labor. But if you maybe just go leave Zara because Brad's got to the pool up. So then she had that job of like, laying in there. yeah, being Zara's central touch. She's like, I'm pretty sure she had my head hanging on my boob for a while there. I like, yeah, that's all she needs. Just suppress Selena. Yeah, yeah, so then by 1am, both my midwife and Doola arrived and then the second midwife came a little bit after that. Yeah, and it was really cool. So it was empowering and special because I was just like, of course, this baby sister started to make for my mom's birthday. was just, yeah, so that was really magical. And we all had a bit of a buzz of like, what are the chances? yeah, if it was gonna be, I guess it got to like the Monday or the Tuesday and that kind of thing. I was like, surely not. Like surely they're not gonna share a birthday. Cause like when I first found out I was pregnant, I was like, that's close to like mom's birthday. So now we're gonna have, and my dad's birthday is exactly the week after. So I'm like, here we go again. Like it's gonna be that whole family thing where it's like. baby one week, mum the next day. And then I was like, but surely like mid, I think I even made a joke. Like if it was the same as Oscar, would share mum's birthday. Shouldn't have made the joke. It's just like, I am 42 weeks and four days later. Out of all of the days, right? All of the possibilities and that's the day that's magic. Holy moly. It was, Jolene. cool and I had some photos of mom in the birth space and I had this moment, Sarah, my daughter was like, I was just like so happy because I'm like how cool is this? 66 years ago my grandma would have been giving birth in a hospital. I was like I need to check this with my grandma but I feel like it's probably nearly the time where like The men didn't even go in, the dads didn't even go in the room. very much like, up in stirrups, we'll be getting this baby out for you. My mom then got in juice with us all and the same thing, where she just felt like she's just a body in a bed that they just forced this baby out of you. I'm just here in my lounge room, had these beautiful fairy lights. had all these supportive women around me and Brad obviously. And yeah, was just like so I had such a moment of just feeling so empowered and obviously just yeah, that spiritual like connection of like I felt like my had that ancestral connection of like my mum and grandma, the family line of like women. Yeah. so yeah, it was it was really cool. And it was pretty like Amazing and just like what a story to tell that yeah it out of all days it did land on this birthday and I was yeah because I had a few I was like trying I think it was one of these things too where I was trying to like tick all the boxes in the lead up because I was like you know what's unfinished here like do I you know it's all these things where they say like if there's anything mentally unfinished and I was like maybe something about mom and like me not making time to grieve or all that kind of thing. So I was like doing these little things and then I even got to like a couple of weeks before and I had this like, I've been to acupuncture and she was like, I feel like there's something with your mom where like there's just, I don't know, she just was saying like it's something unfinished or like something that you need to sort out. And I'm like, I don't, I feel like I've like ticked every box with that. Like I feel like, you know, and then I left there and just got this overwhelming like emotion. And I was like, my mom was such a baby person. And I was like, maybe it's her like holding onto like this baby. didn't know what gender it was at the time. and like not wanting to hand it over. And I was like, come on mom, like that's not fair. you've had your time, but I want to be my arms now. So yeah, so there was all these little like thing references along the way, guess. So yeah. And then for him to come. on her birthday I was like, right, okay, okay, you're just wanna have that like, yeah, strong connection to him, do you? Like that's just, yeah, so it was really beautiful and now they'll forever be tied together in that way. Yeah. Yeah. So was Archie born in this pool finally? Finally born in the pool, so I, yeah, did all the laboring and got to the point where I actually felt like I needed to throw up and I didn't have that before and I'm not someone that... vomits, even with morning sickness and all that kind of stuff. just not really a spewer. I was like, fuck. yeah, Brian was like, I didn't know that was the thing about the vomiting and stuff. And I was like, I did in my head, was kind like, cool, okay, this is a sign that I'm obviously entering active labor. But yeah, and so then my midwife prompted me then it was like, if you want to be in the pool, like now is kind of the time. It's still such a funny thing isn't it that just always like second guess because I thought what if it's too early and I'm gonna end up in this pool and then want to get out of it. So I still had that thought but I was like, yeah, I'll go with it. So I got in the pool and I couldn't believe how good it felt. I was like, okay, now I understand why people love this so much. Such a relief. Like it just felt, it was so warm and it just felt, yeah, you just feel like, you know, that feeling of being floating but it's just like, it's like having a warm hug or something. nice and yeah, just lifted a lot of the kind of like, weight of the contractions. Yeah. But then like that side of me also was like, what if this slows things down? Yeah. it's like I because with the others I was like really like have to be like bouncing and like swaying and stuff. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I moved around a lot in the pool and like lunging and like was leaning over and I don't know, it just kind of seemed to do little random circles and stuff around the pool. But yeah, and then it got to, I felt like it started to get to a frustrating point this time, which I didn't feel was Zara. And I guess maybe part of it could have been because I felt like I was really just like, everything just like stayed in the zone with Zara and I felt like everything progressed really well. And then for that active labor just was really quick, like once my waters broke, whereas this time I felt like I was yeah, like it felt slower that active labor and it ended up being two hours 45 minutes, I think. And yeah, I so I did a bit of like, I feel like I had a I had a bit of a cry one stage and a bit of like, like, get out of me. And yeah, and then it was really but yeah, I really enjoyed the water part of it. It's and I felt towards the end though that I was like, need some like gravity help or something. So I stood up and did a couple of sways standing up and my midwife was kind of like, get back down. I've got this baby in the pool and um, I anyway. I feel like it helped. I felt like I just needed like something just to like shift it down a little bit further. yeah. And then a few more frustration and contractions. And then he even did the, he even did the thing where like, I was like, yes, finally like got that Chinese burn sensation where I knew it was his head. then coming out and I was just like, you know, really like, like such a bit of a vocal. Yeah. Yeah. And then I my midwife go, yep. his head, the heads just popped back in, but that's all good. And I was just like, sorry, what? I remember just being so deflated. And it was just like the last thing I wanted to hear. And in hindsight I've heard that that's a good thing too, because it helps like, you know, your perineum and all that kind of stuff. But it was definitely not what I wanted. Yeah, because your mind doesn't immediately go to the most logical, rational thing. Because you're like in Labourland. I know, I was just like, get this head out. That's all they It's going back. Yes. Yeah. And it's like, you know that the head's just like end game. You're like, head. is the hard part and I feel like once that's out you're sweet. Everything else comes. Yeah, so I couldn't yeah, I'm so deflated. anyway, it came out of like the contraction or two later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And she was awesome at like, prompting me to so this head came out and I like kind of set out for a bit and then even prompted me like, okay, you need to like, kind of get him out in this next one. And again, I didn't know gender. I'm just referring to him his him now but and even like prompted me to catch him, which I hadn't done with the other two. And so that was, so I got the home, I got the water birth and being able to actually like hold him, was really, fully in my eyes being able to like lift him up and bring him to my chest myself, which was, yeah, different to like the, you know, I think probably Brad helped get Oscar out, but then like. Zara dropped on the floor. I had control of the situation. for those listening, I swear we had it nice and safe. It wasn't tiles. Definitely not. It was really cool to actually have that car lifting her up and lifting him up and putting him in my chest. I just said thank goodness because there's so many things. It was my most emotional delivery too. Zara felt more of a buzz and like, oh my gosh, what just happened? that kind of thrill. And this time felt so emotional because of, I guess, just how it all turned out, how it got there. Being able to still have a home birth after 42 weeks was so... Empowering, obviously being mum's birthday and then having Sam joined by that point too so she got to witness the birth and so I had four women around the pool with me and Brad and yeah and also just it been such a long ride. And then also I felt like that active stage felt longer and harder this time and it turned out he was my biggest baby so that probably played a part too. But still had vernix and yeah, as everyone, like my midwife and the both midwives and the doula all said that night was like, there's no sign of like him being looking overcooked or yeah, like he was just totally a normal baby and like, yeah, like a bit heavier, but people have that those kind of weight babies at 38 weeks. You never know. yeah, so. And then the other part of it too that Helen kept reiterating was that at some stage during my pregnancy and the scans I showed up as having a Bellamante's cord insertion. then I got some later scans and they were like, no, yeah, it's all, no, it's fine. Like nothing to kind of be concerned about there. And then when the placenta came out, she was like showing me and she was like, you do have that insertion. So if you had been induced. And they broke your waters manually and then they accidentally got the pucena. That's such a game changer. It ends up being an operation or whatever it is to remove it. So it's just so amazing. It really reinforced the difference of how the situation could have been allowing it to naturally happen in comparison to fronting up to that hospital system. being told that they need to kind of do it, get it all moving and potentially adding more risks and things to me just like allowing it happen at home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could say so much to that, but I think all I will say is like what stories like when I reached out to you, I had no idea that you had three amazing stories and like. with Archie and your mom, like just like holy moly and Archie's only like little like you're still in your like your fourth trimester. yeah, yeah. He's I think he's six weeks on Wednesday. Yeah. And a couple days time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels like a lifetime ago. Yeah. But yes, that's I think that's part of the third child thing that life goes on really quickly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, is that like the biggest thing that you've noticed going from two to three then? Yeah, I was really lucky. Like I really, I really took the first two weeks really slow and utilized Brad being on paternity leave because he just got the government two weeks and then having my friend Sam here was such a savior. I literally, so when he took the kids out, I could literally like, like as an older to he'd go and take them to the park or whatever. And then I was able to just like spend pretty much the two weeks just around the couch and I could just like, hold Archie, feed him, just be able to like have all that skin to skin time and Sam would like bring me in like food and all that kind of stuff, which was like so amazing. So I really like relished that. then it literally was like the day Brad went to work was like, it was like I just had to switch and I was like, right, okay, back. was like lunchbox duty, drop offs, it was just yeah, back in the swing of it. yeah, and then I reckon from then it's just like, I just spend the day getting in and out of the car. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I think it's just the balance and I think to the balancing of like the tension between the three, having, yeah, just like more to kind of more needs. And like they're both constantly like, I'm hungry. Yeah, I need this. want this. Yes. I think it's just more the juggle of like they're sharing the attention. But so far, I'm like, he's the he's the easy one. Like the babies just kind of fit in. Yeah. It's not until he's older that it'll add to the arguments. And yeah, yeah. Well, that's definitely happening with Frankie and Murphy. I feel like I just spend. the whole day umpiring, like stop hitting each other, stop throwing at that, why did you do that? Yeah, yeah, It's just like, it's good. It's the other two are the problem. Yeah. And then the beautiful thing about that is they do it for like another 10 years or something, try to tell myself that one day I'm going to have so much time and I'm not going to have to tell them to do things. And I'm going to, you know, I've been really craving exercise lately, but I just, I just don't have time to really exercise now. And I keep saying to myself recently, they're like, one day I can exercise the whole fricking day if I want. Like this is, this doesn't, you know, like 10 years, 18 years, whatever you want to call it. Like in reality, it's, it's not actually that much time and it goes by so quick. it sounds like Oscar's already at, in prep or whatever now, but Murphy's studying next year. and. Yeah, like we've been going to the little orientation things and I'm just like, my gosh. And so like when he's annoying now, cause he asks a hundred times for food every day. And it like, I literally just fed you, but you know, when he's annoying, I am trying really hard to be like, like you're just little. like, just a second ago, you were this little baby that I held in my arms and like, it's just, yeah, you really have to check yourself and check in because yeah, you can get swept up. with life like so quickly like that's you know that's what life is like doing something all the time. But yeah. You hear they say when they start school it goes really fast and I already feel like Oscar just started like it yeah as you say like he started like a pre-kidney thing only last term and before that he was only going to daycare like one day a week. I reckon it's just sped up. I knew that it was coming, but it's already the Monday that it's on. I feel like I just even can't keep up myself with the days. The days are flying. It's been nearly six weeks. It's mind-blowing as well. seemed like yesterday that I was... still like, okay, any day now. And now he's already six weeks old. And yeah, and I'm already that person that's already got a baby that I used to look at being like, that's gonna be me soon. Like I'm a newborn. And yeah, it's just, yeah, it just, I think it just goes faster. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I have no doubt that your stories are gonna like help so many women that listen, I think. Yeah, like when going into home birth, like it's this whole sort of world that you don't like most people like are not like they don't have any awareness of before they're pregnant. And then to learn everything, I just like that's quite unfair. And I think, yeah, you've got some really valuable information in your stories. And I'm just like, so, grateful for you taking your time tonight, like with your little baby and Zara, who's obviously got somebody else's body to touch. No, I've got till 11.30, remember? She'll be in soon. I just get a couple of hours to myself to start the night now. And then she comes in and so now have Archie and Zara and Brad all like in the bed generally at one time. I get so much space. But just saying that before you wrap it up, I ended up like, I think take home messages for like home birth is like, Not even so much about like achieving having a birth at home because I know that like people like I've had comments before people being like I wouldn't want to clean the mess up like so much mess blah blah blah. I'm like there's tops and like you put things down for that measure but anyway but it's more just like changing the perspective that we are literally like meant to have babies, like we're built to have babies. And just somewhere along the way, we've made that a scary process and all. Like I remember as a kid always just thinking like, all you ever heard was like, oh my gosh, the pain of birth. Like it's just always, and I think my biggest thing was just like, you can tolerate pain. you can, it's like just a process and you forget about it in a few hours and it's like. something that you can kind of control and be like really educated through and just I think the thing that makes it painful is people get so scared like you get so scared because you're like what's this thing hurting me like something's gonna happen here and like it's because we've been told all these scare tactics and fearful stories and so it's not even that I'm against people having births in a hospital it's I'm against how they treat births in a hospital and how they try to take over the situation and make you feel like you've got to do things that are kind of going against what your natural instincts and body can allow you to do. And my last little thing with that is like after Archie actually had a bit of blood loss and I guess this is back on the home birth wagon there was that I... Like I sat there, I delivered the placenta and all that kind of stuff. The after birth pains kicked in really quickly this time, which is always a joy. But I ended up, my midwife was kind of like, oh, I went to, they were getting me, probably me to go and have a shower. This was like kind of post everything and once the cord had been cut and all that kind of stuff. And then I got really like faint and they were like, oh no, lay back down. And so my body doesn't seem to cope well with blood loss. wasn't that I lost heaps and heaps and heaps. It was like 600 meals or something. But it was enough that I needed to get some fluid and my midwife ended up being like, think we'll get the paramedics because they can put the line and you're better. My blood pressure was a bit low, that kind of thing. And so still in the safety of my home, or the comfort of my home I'll say, I was still in really safe hands and could get support from the paramedics or even just my midwife could have done it too but she was kind of like... You know, they've got more fluid, their fluids more in data, whatever, I think there's a bit of a shortage of fluid around here at the moment. also she was just like, I just didn't want to, I was just worried that it, because your blood pressure was low, I didn't want to struggle getting the lining, but she ended up doing it herself anyway. But yeah, so they came and there were these two guys and they were like, love these people. And they were like, this is like such a nice job for us, getting to like come here and do this. This is a really like positive experience for us when we're exposed to so many things and in their line of duty, but it was just like, was still just like, I wasn't like, there was no fear around it. Like I wasn't scared, I was scared or anything. just needed some, like I think they put even put an oxygen thing on me and stuff too, just to like help add me up a bit again. And so I still didn't have to like, and they offered if I wanted to be transferred to the hospital or was just happy feeling comfortable at home. And I was like, yeah, I'm comfortable here. Like I'd very rather stay here than go and. I was fine. I was fine within maybe an hour or two and could get all the care that I needed and still not have to be uncomfortable and away from having to throw a baby in the car or in the ambulance or anything like that. I felt like I wanted to add that little thing of things can happen but there's still so much support and you can still feel so comfortable. within that home birth environment. And it's not like you just literally like, it's not like you're in a bush somewhere with no resources around you. always make a point whenever I'm sort of telling someone the basics, I guess, about home birth is that they carry medication for postpartum hemorrhage and things like that. It's not like they're just rocking up with their bare hands. And I mean, like that's what kind of approach you want them to have initially, but you, you want that other stuff usually as well. Like just. in case like, you know, it's like birth is as your stories are, birth is unpredictable. You can't like predict them. There is like that there's risk with everything in life because life is unpredictable. you know, midwives are so educated, like to become a hope to become a private home birth midwife, you have to do so much more work than the midwives that are on the ward in the hospitals. and I feel sad that that's not really recognized, you know, home birth midwives are kind of like seen as these, know, rebels that sort of fly under the radar and doing this weird stuff and, know, not going with the status quo, but like, they're actually really, really educated and highly, highly skilled and they have access to things like, yeah, medication for postpartum hemorrhage or like, yeah, to put up an IV for, you know, extra fluid or whatever you need. So yeah, think yeah, example. Yeah, I midwives are amazing. And yeah, even the ones in the hospital, it's like, overall, can just tell they're backed against the wall too. They're just so mandated, busy. And then often you see there's the conflict between like what they value and feel comfortable with, but they're still have to align with the system. I totally get why there's more and more people becoming private midwives because what a way to be able to try and escape that but then essentially putting yourself under other harder work. Trying to fit that into your life is hard. A commitment of a private midwife but it's amazing. I totally appreciate it all. Well, thank you. Thank you so, much, Mel. You're so welcome. Thank you for having me for this little podcast. It's important.