Midwife chooses homebirth & long labour affter 2 quick labours! || Sam's birth of Abby (2014) & Tessa (2016) at home (Western Australia)

Episode 58 is shared by Sam from WA. She is a midwife of 13 years, who has recently become endorsed and is working privately. She is mum to 3 children, 2 of which were born at home. Today she shares her story of finding homebirth and eventually having 2 of her own homebirths. She shares her birth stories and we chat parenthood along the way. 

Resources: 

• Fiona Hallinan https://www.thepelvicspace.com.au/

Chapters

• 2:48 Sam's Journey into Midwifery
• 6:12 First Birth Experience in a Birth Center
• 12:13 The Birth of Lydia
• 17:50 The Birth of Abby
• 35:57 Navigating the Unpredictability of Birth
• 57:00 The Role of Positioning in Labor

Transcript

0:02

This is Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsa, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys, a doula in Melbourne supporting birth at home. I'm a mental health nurse and the co-creator of Home Birth Victoria. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast or my work as a doula, check out www.birthingathome.com.au. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Nam, Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. Episode 58 is shared by Sam in Western Australia. Sam is a midwife of 13 years who has recently become endorsed and is working privately. She is mum to three children, two of which were born at home. Today she shares her story of finding home birth and eventually having two of our own home births. She shares her birth stories and we chat parenthood along the way. If you're one of the 53 % of listeners on Apple podcasts right now, please rate or review. Happy New Year everyone. Enjoy this episode. Welcome Sam to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Hi Elsie, thanks for having me. Thank you for joining me. I was looking back. in our Instagram messages and we started talking in March this year. And I think this might be maybe the third time we've tried to record or something like that. So I'm glad to finally be here chatting to you. And now where I saw that, cause you're in Perth, right? Yeah. And I saw actually that I'd said, great. Now we're only two hours time difference, but now we're back to three hours time difference. Anyway, if you could please give a little intro to yourself. Obviously I said you're in Perth, but maybe what you do, who's in your family, that kind of thing. Yeah, so my name's Sam. I'm married to Ben. We've been together since we were little teenagers flipping burgers together at Hungry Jags. And we have three daughters. So we've got Lydia, who's 13. Abby who's 10 and Tessa who's eight. So they've all had birthdays recently. And I'm also a midwife. I've been a midwife for 13 years. And I've just made the transition into private practice. So I have been recently, like did all my endorsement and did everything last year and then started taking clients on at the start of this year. So Before that, I used to work in, well, I still do. just do like one or two shifts at the moment. But yeah, I work in a small metropolitan hospital in the public system. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. And so I saw as well that in March, you were first, we were first talking, you were saying that you were getting ready to step out of the system. And so, yeah, now you are attending home births as a primary midwife. Yes, I am. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's so, so cool. Wow. And so today you're going to share a little bit about your middle free journey, but also about your journey with your three children, because your eldest was born in a birth center and then you had two home births, right? Yeah, did. Yeah. Awesome. so maybe like going back. Like what came first, like midwifery or home birth? Like what did you know about home birth growing up or did you only learn about that through midwifery? Yeah, definitely didn't know about it growing up. I learnt that once I became a midwife. So everyone around me, all family, friends, everyone would have had babies in hospitals and it was it was not a thing. Yeah. my family, we have lots and lots of like female relatives, but birth was always in the hospital. Yeah. Yeah. And like growing up, I mean, how did you come into studying midwifery? Like what was your experience of, you know, knowing about birth or pregnancy or like women's bodies growing up? Yeah. well, I, I was really unsure about what I wanted to do after I finished high school. Um, and like I said, I had lots of female cousins who were already nurses and I was kind of reluctant to do that. don't know. just felt like I was following the trend if I did that. So I did a year of, um, human bio and sports science. It was all right. Didn't love it. Yeah. Year of phys ed teaching, which I do. really love sport. Um, but still didn't love it. And then I was like, stuff, I'm going to do nursing. So trained as a nurse, did all my nursing studies, got to the end of that, didn't love it, like just didn't feel right, didn't fit me. And so then I actually went straight from my nursing. So I completed that and then I did my mid straight after it. And back when I trained in Perth, we had a degree where you actually got employed by the hospital and then you did a post-grad. So it was a year. but you worked three days a week and went to uni one day a week. Yeah. We got paid as well. I was going to say, and did you get paid? Yeah. I have heard that from someone else. And I believe that like currently there might be like a similar situation, especially like in rural areas. Yeah. But I think they might be potentially trying to bring something similar back, but it would be a longer training. I think it's 18 months instead of the 12 that I did. Yeah. But yeah. It was, it was the best of both worlds really. Like, so I got to work in that it's the same one that I've always worked at. Um, that technically was meant to take on like lower risk clientele because we're only about 1300 births a year. Um, don't have 24 hour theaters and things like that. So I kind of got to learn my trade, especially back when I was really like junior around like older experienced midwives who would like show me the way, you know, show me what physiological birth was meant to be like. mean, as much as it can be in the hospital, but as a baby midwife, you have to see those things. We never got the opportunity to do any sort of training in the home setting or anything like that as a student though. We're a disappointing, I guess, Yeah, I did enjoy it. Yeah. And so how old is your eldest? Did you say sorry? She's 13. 13. So you did you have her in your first year of midwifery? Okay. Okay. And so do you remember, so you have giving birth in the birth center. Did that kind of stem from what you'd learned about? trying to go for a physiological birth in the system, I guess. Yeah, yeah. So I initially did want to have a home birth. Yeah. first time around, my husband wasn't comfortable with that. Just, guess we're both, we're both young, like we're both new to that kind of world as well. I'd worked like my, so I did my training year and then I feel pregnant. like in the January of my first year of like being a grad. And yeah, so I guess we, you know, like, I knew that birth would be better with midwives. I knew midwifery care and physiological birth was the way to go. But trying to convince him to have a home birth straight off the bat, we went, it wasn't a planned conception with Lydia either. Like, I think it was just a bit intimidating for him more so than I was keen to try, but he was kind of, yeah, on the fence about it. So we're really lucky in Perth that we do have a program called the Family Birth Center and it's run out of the major tertiary hospital here. So it's like a midwifery group practice program and they've got like a little, it's almost like a home-like environment. It's linked to the hospital, but not inside the hospital. And yeah, that is probably as close to, I guess, as a home birth as you could get in a hospital. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's still got its limitations, let's be honest. yeah, yeah, it was probably a happy medium. I am, I'm a unicorn woman. That's the, you know, the perfect low risk candidate that they all want to have. Yeah, awesome. so I guess I felt comfortable going there because I knew I probably wouldn't be one of the ones that's going to be kicked out, know, yeah, I knew that I was going to be able to probably make my way through there without too many issues. Yeah. Yeah. And how was it then? Like, how was your experience like in pregnancy and also like giving birth in the birth center with Lydia? look, it was fine. It was fine. I guess it was quite difficult because I was working full-time shift work to like time my appointments and things with the midwives at the birth center. So like I got allocated into a group, but you were still meant to have one primary midwife, but I felt like I probably saw everybody just because of shift work and availabilities because obviously they must have kind of set antenatal days or whatever, but my never line up with that. So I did get to meet most of the midwives that worked within that group, but I never really, I never really had that rapport with any of them because, you know, I probably saw everyone twice through my pregnancy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If they rotate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was, it was fine, but it still has its limitations, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so when it came down to like, you know, giving birth, like, do you remember if you had any signs of labor? Like, when do you like, is it a sort of similar thing with a hospital birth, like in terms of like, when you go to the birth center in labor, like, I guess, you know, from what I hear with hospital births, you know, they say, you know, wait a long time, because obviously the, the typical hospital environment isn't conducive with, you know, physiological labor and birth, but in a birth center where it's like a bit more those vibes. Like, can you go in earlier or like how, what, what was that like? Well, my plan was to stay at home for as long as possible anyway, because I knew myself that going anywhere outside of your home environment is going to impact your labor. Yeah. So yeah, I worked until I was 37 weeks pregnant. Just because I figured I was just going to go. post-dates as all first-time mums do. And I was 38 weeks on the dot when I, my water's broke actually. Yeah. Wow. So I hadn't slept well the night before. So I'd gone and put myself back to bed in the afternoon. And my hubby, he was going out to have some drinks with a mate in the afternoon. Of course. All right, let's do that. And no signs. I'd had no signs, like no Brexton Hicks even. Like I just, it was, and I was feeling well. Like I was really active. Like I just didn't think that I was going to have a baby. and so I was laying down and I probably had an hour or two sleep and then I felt a pop. And so I jumped up and ran to the toilet and it's clear fluid coming out. So I was like, okay, definitely my waters. and then I just didn't tell anyone. Left my husband having drinks in the sun with his mate. and I just popped a pad on and messaged my friend. I had a friend who I kind of wanted her to come over and just check on me. Another midwife friend. just so that I didn't, I wasn't the midwife rocking up at the birth center, one centimeter dilated screen. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I messaged her to let her know that my waters are broken. And then, yeah, I just hopped on a football and a TENS machine and did my thing. And about an hour later, I started having some cramping. So I did call my hubby and he answered the phone and was like, are you in labor? And I was like, actually, my waters have broken. And I was like, but maybe I'll come and drive and get you. And he was like, no, like. I'll catch a taxi. was like, fine. Oh, brilliant. So in the meantime, like he was about half an hour away or whatever. And then by the time we got a taxi, it might've taken him about an hour to get home. But it all ramped up really quickly. within half an hour, was like, screw this tens machine, not doing a thing. Wow. Cutting it at all. Yeah. jumped in the shower and he walked in the door and I was like on all fours in the shower and he was like, I saw you eating labor. And I was like, I before I wasn't. So it escalated quickly. I actually did my own, I did my own vaginal examination. course. Well, it wasn't very big. was easy to get in. Yeah. Yeah. I did have a little feel and I thought I was about four centimeters. Okay. I said to him like, you better call the midwife at the birth center and just let them know. But like say that I'm happy to stay home. Like I'm not going to come in yet, but things are happening. And so he was like, okay, okay. And then we didn't have a car seat in. We were very naughty. I was sending him to like chuck the car seat in. Yeah, all the things. And he was so stressed out that time in between me like contracting every three minutes I reckon I was by then. Wow. goodness. How far away did you live from the birth center? an hour. Okay. Yeah, not ideal. Yeah. And we're getting into like, I don't know, it would have been six o'clock or something like that, maybe seven o'clock. And it was actually my stepdad's birthday as well. my daughter was actually born on his birthday, which is really sweet. Wow. Yeah. So my mum was planning to come to the birth and so was my sister, one of my sisters, who is a hairdresser and was working late night at the shop. like my mum is in her chair and said things were happening and all the hairdressers, were like, it'll be hours. It's fine. Don't stress. You're not going to miss anything. Yeah. And so we ended up getting my friend to come over and she came and checked on me and she, so it was probably an hour after I checked myself and she was like, you're four centimeters. And in my head, was like, I was four centimeters an hour ago. Like, yeah. I think I did lose the plot a little bit. And she was just like, hop in the bath. It's fine. You're fine. Like, so I hopped in the bath and you know, my mom, she came over as well. So my mom and my husband, Um, they were like freaking out in the living room. My friend was there. She was like, everything's fine. Like, don't worry about it. She's fine. it chill. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think I was laboring back and forth between the shower and the toilet. Labors of fun. Opening my bowels all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then I think it must've been another hour or so. And I kind of started like. having that little urge to push at the peak of the contraction. My friend was there and she was like, are you pushing? And I said, no, no, no, I'm just, I need to do a poo. And she was like, no, you're pushing. And I was like, no, not. And she was like, there you are, you are pushing. So she was like, we need to go to the birth center now. she's a grad, we're both grads. And she was like, I will never forgive you if you make me catch a baby at home. 13 years later. And do you know what she works for the local community midwifery program now too. Oh yeah, Always meant to be. Yeah, it was meant to be. So Ben was like, well, I can't drive because he'd had too much. Oh, of course. Oh no. It was like this big train of people. like my mum drove our car to the birth center, but my friend threw us in the car and like took us to the birth center as well in her car. It was a of it was a bit of a mission. And so like, just pulled on one of those like stretchy dresses. I didn't put any bottoms on because I was like pushing with every contraction. I just sat on a towel in the back of her car and Ben was in the front with her, like, wasn't buckled in, was just like all over the shop. Every drive, like every contraction, I could see like her speedo going up, up, up, up, and then comes back down. Luckily it was probably about eight, 39 o'clock at night by then, like driving. So no peak hour traffic. Didn't have to stress about any of that. And then my mom like, followed about five minutes later in my car and the whole drive along the freeway she kept thinking like, my God, what if they pulled over? forgot what her car looks like. no. Can you imagine? my gosh. my gosh. But yeah, so she was just the whole time was like, please do not push this baby out in the car. I will never forgive you. Luckily we'd called ahead when we were on our way. had said, Bennett said to the midwife how I'd like a water birth. So they had started to fill the pool up for when we got there. Cool. So by the time I arrived, involuntary pushing my way into the hospital, the pool was ready. So I hopped in basically as soon as I got there. I think the midwife quickly wanted to quickly check how dilated I was. And she did say I had an anterior rim, but I couldn't stop pushing even if wanted to. They tried to give me the gas and said like you know let's breathe through a few with the gas and I said to everyone the gas isn't working it's not on like what's going on I feel nothing from this like I know people are to feel like dizzy and I feel nothing and they all kept laughing they're like yeah it's on it's on it's on no it had run out the bottle had run out my gosh, so you actually, my goodness. And they didn't realize that till after. Well, I think it was about three or four contractions of me just saying like, this isn't doing anything. And then they looked and they're like, yeah, it's empty. No. my gosh. the midwife switched over the gas bottle, but by then I was pushing anyway. I would just. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. It was, it was going to happen. I was in like the most awkward position in the, they've got the hard, like they've got like a proper built in hard pool. it wasn't one of those. Yeah, of course. Yeah. but for some reason, and I don't know why, but I like was laying back like you would if you were laying back on a bed and like Ben was like holding my under my arms. And yeah, my, my, my coccyx bone was like really hurting me like, so I couldn't put my bottom down on the. um, bottom of the bath. Yeah. I don't know why I didn't flick over to my knees. I don't know why that didn't occur to me or why anyone didn't actually just suggest that because surely that would have helped. But anyway, do they put anything in the, the, bottom to like make it softer? No, cause I'd never really thought about that. Yeah. Yeah. They should put towels down or something. Yeah, yoga mats like sticky yoga mats or something to the bottom. Yeah. Definitely. But yeah, so pushed, I think I pushed for about 45 minutes. And at one stage, like it was, you know, a big circle of their head was just sitting there. And I just kept saying, she's not going to come like that. See, she's stuck. Like I've lost the plot. My friend was with us and she was like, Sam, you've been pushing for 45 minutes and it's your first baby. Calm down. Like you're doing fine. But I was like, nah, I'm done. It's not coming. She's not coming. She's stuck. Like I'm going to have to translate in my life. I was just like losing my mind. I'm going to have to transfer. I'm going to have to have a vacuum. Like, dunno, she's never going to come out. And then maybe five minutes later she was born. Yeah. Wow. Um, and she came out in the water looking up. So she came out. recto-P facing upwards. That's so impressive. Yeah. How quick and like how you got through that. How long then? How long do you say that you were in labor with her then for? About four hours. Yeah. Holy moly. I reckon she turned. She must have turned at the end. Like, I don't think she was in that position to begin with. And even my friend who, when she checked me at home, she was like, no, it felt like she was away when I checked. I reckon she moved like maybe when I started pushing. Interesting. Honestly, had like, so she was midwife talk. She was like a deflexed baby. like, instead of having their like, she was actually like kind of looking up. Wow. She looked like she had like this big like right on the top of her head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you looked at pictures, I don't know if you've seen babies that have had like vacuum extractions, how they have like that, drawing me kind of look. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What she looked like when she came out. Yeah, wow. Because she must have just been in this really weird position. Yeah, I mean babies, babies are clever, but they also do strange things. That I mean, yeah, how? How bizarre. But yeah, it does sound like that she especially because it was so quick and like you didn't particularly find like have back pain. yeah, yeah. How bizarre. And then she was here. So she was born in water and you picked her up. Wow. Because I was still leaning back. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Still trying to save my coccyx even after she was born. I I made Ben still hold me up because I couldn't sit for probably two weeks. I reckon I must have like when she came through she did something weird to my coccyx. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. my goodness. And do you remember what the birth of the placenta was like? Do they have like a policy about that? Or? Yeah, if you have an hour and if you haven't had the placenta in an hour then you have to have the cento injection. so, but they did want me to get out the pool to deliver the placenta. don't know if that's a standard thing there or not, but yeah. So after she was born, we didn't know we were having a girl either. And we all just cheered. and yeah, took us ages. said, what did, what do we have? And then like everyone was like, yeah. Like, what is it? Took us ages before anyone like figured out to check. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so hopped on a bean bag just next to the pool and then delivered the full center maybe half an hour, 45 minutes later. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool. Yeah. And so what happened? So how old is your middle one? So there's a three year difference. She's 10. Okay. Okay. So within three years, what did it take three years to convince your husband to have a home birth or were you instantly like, we're definitely, we definitely could have done this at home. Lydia out and said, we're doing that at home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There is no way I'm doing that drive ever again. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Just pausing here to let you know about this episode's sponsor. 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Dear Me Mother to Be is proudly a mom run Australian business who ships Australia wide. visit the website, www.dearmeemothertobe.com for your order and access free pregnancy resources. And so in that three years, like did you do any work around like preparing for a home birth or like were there things that you'd reflected on apart from obviously, you know, having to go into that setting? It sounds like you, you had support at. home, like your friend that came over and whatnot, but was there anything that you were particularly thinking about like, I need to work on that for next time or like, maybe I could have done that next time kind of thing. well, I mean, I weren't, I went back to work in between. So then it was just back to supporting physiology as much as you can in the hospital setting. Yeah. So realizing that that's not how birth is like this isn't. normal. So I didn't actually do any sort of like hypnobirthing or I didn't do any of that. think because everything is so straightforward with my first, I just kind of trusted my body and trusted that birth works. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just works. So yeah. Yeah, cool. Yeah. And so with my, with Abby, my sister and I were both pregnant at the same time. Wow, so special. Yeah. So I worked up until about 35 weeks with Abby. And just because I wanted to support my sister for her first birth as well. She birthed at the birth center that first time as well. Yeah. So I was 35 weeks pregnant and delivering her baby. That's like, yeah, well, I am. There's some amazing pictures of that. That's just like so funny. Yeah, it was really cute. She had this most epic marathon, asyncletic, posterior baby labor. Like, oh, it went on and on. Oh, no. And we slept, like all of us slept for six hours or so. Wow. She was squatted for like, I reckon eight hours of her labor with her doing squats to try and get the baby to rotate. she was very well, but yeah, it was just this absolute marathon of the labor. for you at 35 weeks as well. Yeah. Did you find, so you said that the, the hospital that, you were working in at the time and you do still do a little bit of work with now, like it's typically like more lower risk women. Did you. like have to because I've spoken to a few midwives and they say, Oh, I really had to get out of birth suite to like clear my mind so I could focus on my own birth. Did you feel like you had any like trouble with like separating yourself from the experiences of women that you were supporting? Yeah, it was really hard. And we had a couple of incidents, you know, just you know what births like some, there are some bad outcomes every now and then. Yeah. And it Sometimes it really was hard to get your mind into your own pregnancy and birth. I am grateful that I had more time off before going into it. But for some reason with Abby, every room that I would, like every woman that I was looking after, every room that I tended to go in, I don't know if it's because I had my own hormones going, everyone just had babies. Like, was just like, I don't know what. I know. I felt like I had the magic touch like I did. Vaginal birth for you, vaginal birth for you, vaginal birth for you. On stage the doctors were like, hey, that lady in that room needs to deliver. Can you go hang out in there for a while? I mean, maybe, maybe a little bit of, you know, oxytocin, more oxytocin. Yeah. That's very cool. And so Did you decide to hire, um, like private midwives or did you go through the community midwifery? Is that what it's called? The commu like the publicly funded kind of thing. Um, so I didn't really know a heap about private midwives at the time. just guess. weren't a big thing. mean, this is 10 years ago. They just weren't as, mean, I'm sure they were around, but it just wasn't really like well known. Um, yeah. So I did go through CMP. Yeah. Um, yet again, I knew that I was probably going to, you know, pass all of their little guidelines that they have in place. Tick boxes. All their tick boxes. And I just knew to decline all of the things that I didn't want as well. yeah, I had no GTT and I didn't have, um, GBS done. And yeah, I just was happy to. under the radar and avoid all of that. Yeah. One thing that annoys me about the CMP and I mean I know that that's just a criteria thing for them is that you have to go and see an obstetrician when you're 36 weeks pregnant to be approved. Yeah, okay. Yeah. and you know, they sit there and tell you about all the risks of having a home birth and yeah and it's a compulsory thing which really actually annoyed me because I feel like If I've gotten that far in my pregnancy and I've made that choice, why do I need to go and see someone to tell me the so-called risks of having a home birth? Yeah, because it doesn't happen like the other way around. They don't sit everybody down and be like, OK, well, this is the risk of having a hospital birth, of induction, of interventions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And while I was there, I remember like one of the midwives coming up to me and just like handing me the GBS swabs and being like, can you go do a wee and then do these swabs as well? And I like stared at her. I guess she didn't know that I was there for like, if I was the CMP girl either, she must just do that to all of the women that are there. And I was like, one, how is this informed consent? Two, I assume these are GBS swabs. And she was like, yes. And I was like, well, it's a hard no and like gave them back to her. I was so annoyed. was just like, that's not consent. Like telling someone, why are you doing your urine test? Here you go. Do these swabs. What? Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. And did sorry. Did you say your husband's name is Ben? Ben. And what were his like, do you remember what his particular fears were or like what, what sort of won him over in the end for home birth? It was me. I was just like, I'm not doing that again. And so I think because he'd seen how easy I was the first time he was kind of like, yes, fair enough. Like, yeah, I think it will be fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that kind of got him on board. Yeah. Yeah. And any like midwife friends or like anything, did you get like any particular critical feedback or like opinions, not feedback, opinions about like what you were choosing to do? Yeah. All the time at work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it is quite interesting because there is a higher rate of midwives that have home births, but it's, I feel like I feel like it's a, I don't know if a spectrum, no, maybe not a spectrum. feel like it's sort of like black or white. You're either a midwife that agrees with home birth or your midwife that's seen so much that they can't imagine anybody should be giving birth at home. And so you're either one or the other. because yeah, like I've spoken to some of my midwife friends who work in these big tertiary, like major city hospitals where they're seeing stuff happen. all the time. yeah, it must be really scary to think about, like if that's what you see of birth, and that's what you think birth looks like. You know, and you need all of this intervention. Yeah, I can imagine it must be really difficult to comprehend how the heck it could be any different. Well, and I think a lot, not a lot. Some of them think, can't think outside the square that the reason those things are happening are. to what we're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, I mean, obviously, even spontaneous laborers have things happen like, you know, birth isn't completely predictable. No, And they might have something happen with just someone that's coming in spontaneous labor and then they have like a large hemorrhage or something like that afterwards. And yeah, I'm gonna say we'll see like that was like a spontaneous normal laboring person who's still glad and yeah, mean, in my head I'm thinking, well, they're still in the hospital. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's still an intervention. Yeah, yeah, that's so true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you have like, I mean, when you think about all three of your births, like considering your birth with Abby, was there any particular like... pools or things that you wanted to do, like to work with your labor, work with the pain, that kind of thing? Were you planning to have like a water birth this time? Yeah, yeah. So I had the pool, but I didn't bother getting the tens machine, just because it only lasted half an hour before it got ripped off. So other than the pool, I felt pretty confident that I could, you know, I had music, like I just felt quite confident that everything would be fine. Like, yeah. So yeah, I didn't, yeah, I wasn't too, I wasn't too stressed about the whole situation other than I didn't want to go post-aids. Yeah. That's another thing that they, that's the tick box. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. when you hit 40 weeks, you have to go back and see the obstetrician again to be approved to go to year 42 week, whatever, which I didn't want to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's absolutely madness. I think it's funny that they call it the community midwifery program because over here in Victoria, it's just called publicly funded home birth. And I don't know. Like when I hear the term community midwife program. I think of like midwives and like, you know, maybe it's like nicer or something. And like, maybe they're more lenient. but it sounds like it's exactly the same as publicly funded home birth. It's just a different name. And it's kind of sneaky. We've had it here in first for ages, but yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it's publicly funded home birth. I guess it sounds nicer. Yeah, it does sound nice. Cool. And so 35 weeks supporting your sister. Like, did you have any signs of labor before Abby? I actually made my friend, same friend come and me a stretch and sweep. Okay, yeah. I think I was 39 and three or something. yeah, and it was a Friday, but I was meant to be seeing the doctor. on the Monday or Tuesday and I was like, I don't want to go and see that doctor. I mean, I probably could rung up and cancelled that appointment as well, but which was my next plan. But also I had my first baby at 38 weeks and I was like, what the hell? Why am I still pregnant? Yeah. So she came and gave me a stretch and sweep, went for a walk down the beach, had a bit of a mucusy show, but nothing else really. And then I went to bed. Ben had the man flu. So life was very difficult for him that evening. And I woke up, I woke up at about one o'clock in the morning and I started having some tightenings. And so I kind of woke him and said like, I think labor's starting. And he looked at me and was like, now you're nothing like last time, like it's not labor. And went back to sleep. call me when your waters have broken. And I was like, your waters don't have to break. to be in labor and he was just like, no, no, no, you're not in labor. It's all good. Um, Oh my God. was enough to like wake me up and like, couldn't, I wasn't comfortable in bed. So I just went and I set the room up. So I went in, the pool was already like inflated and sitting on our tiny room table. So I like set that up and put the mats down and, um, you know, put the music on and had all of like my burners going and things like that. And grabbed a heat pack and was just rocking on my ball with a heat pack. I messaged my sister because she was breastfeeding her baby. I messaged her at 1am and said, think that labor's going to start soon. And she was like, okay, well, I've just finished feeding Caleb's son. Just finished feeding Caleb, so he'll be due for a feed again at four. I'll check in and see how you're going. And I was like, okay, cool. And then I must have been about another... hour later I went back to him and I was like you need to get up like things are really starting to happen and he was still just like no like you're not in labor babe like no you're not it's not yet like yeah and he was you know man flu so he just was like no no you're fine and so it must have been about 2 15 I went back to him and I said I've called my mum and he was like god okay like Oh my god. And my mother-in-law who just lives down the road, she came as well. I invited her to come to the birth. She's only had caesareans for all her babies, her first with breach and so that's when she had babies once a caesarean, always a caesarean. So all of her babies were caesareans. So I invited her to come along to the birth. So my husband called her to let her know to come over as well. And at about half past two-ish, I was like, think I'm gonna hop in the shower. Like everyone had arrived. I think we might've maybe filled the pool up a little bit as well, like halfway. And my mum or Ben maybe said like, do you think we should let the midwife know? And I was like, no, no, don't let the midwife know. Like, that's not very nice. I'm not in labor yet. And so I walked off and my mum grabbed Ben and was like, call the midwife, like call her. So we did, he called her and he just said, look like she's pretty chill. She's going to hop in the shower. But like our last baby was only four hours later. So we're just letting you know that things are happening. And the midwife had to be about 20 minutes away. So she was like, all right, no worries. Like I'm on my way kind of thing. And I hopped in the shower and I had three massive contractions. And so then I yelled out to Ben like, I think Nick push. And he was like, what? No, wait, hold on. So he's getting the midwife back and the midwife's like, well I'm on my way, like I'm on Wannery Road which is like one of like the main artery roads which runs for like 70 kilometers. So couldn't really tell Ben where she was, he was just like cool. But she just said to him, if you see the head give me a call and my husband in his head was like, if I see the head I'm catching a baby. Yeah. I don't know, calling you. yeah, yeah. What's she gonna do? Yeah. And so then I'm like, hectic, like trying to tell him to try and fill the pool up. So I really wanted to have this water bath, but I was in the shower and he's trying to put the hot water in the pool, which means that then I was losing water from the shower. Oh no. Screaming at him from the shower. feel sorry. slaps her at all. Wow. But yeah, in the end, like, because we've Also with the public in front of the birth, you sign a thing to say that you're not meant to get in the pool unless the midwife's there. Oh my god, that's hilarious. Oh god, they'll really, oh my goodness. Yeah. That's crazy. So if you get in the pool, if you get in the pool, you have to sign something, but like, if you, oh my god. And so that's like saying that you have to sign something to like Sleep in your bed. Like how ridiculous. And of course I was like, well, the only way we're going to fill the pool up is if I'm in it. Yeah. So I was like, stop it. I'm getting in the pool. So as I was walking past completely naked, past the front door to hop in the pool, the midwife actually arrived. She knocked on the door. Yeah. Well, walking by, was like, I'm getting in the pool. And she was like, okay. You're psyching. Yeah. So I hopped in the pool. was involuntary pushing in the pool. And my poor mother-in-law got handed a pad and a piece of paper and told to write notes for the midwife. So she's never been in a, you know, she's had caesareans, hasn't had been in a birth before. while we're waiting for the second mid-biker to come. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're in time anyway. Wow. I I might have pushed for about 15 minutes with Abby and she was born. Whoa. She was born at 3.15. Yeah. Yeah. Like two hours. And my goodness. Holy moly. Yeah. And like that's yeah, I mean, that throws Friedman's curb whatever out of the water like totally. my goodness. Yeah. that's brilliant. Did how did you, how did you feel? Because a lot of women when they have very quick labors feel a bit like shell shocked actually. Yeah, I was pretty shocked. I think I, yeah, I did. I had like the shakes for a little bit. Yeah, it was, it was crazy. And my youngest sister was there as well. So she would have been like maybe 20, I reckon. And she was there, she was taking photos for us as well. took some of the pictures. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I delivered the placenta in the water, right in the pool. And so then we just chucked it into like an ice cream container. It was like floating around. I was like, what is that? And I was like, the placenta. And I started showing her. She was like, that is the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. But they're so cool. Oh my gosh. If you only knew. Oh my goodness. Did you, how long did it take roughly? Do you remember for the placenta to be born? about 20 minutes, half an hour. think the second we arrived by the time that the placenta came out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause sometimes of course like with the faster labors. Yeah. Because your body is kind of like, the heck just happened? The placenta can take a little bit more time, but yeah. Wow. Cool. And in a ice cream container floating in the pool, that's home birth for you. That's very cool. How was your, was recovery? She weighed about 500 grams more than Lid. So Lid was 2.7, thank God. So she was only 5kg. And then yeah, Abby was 3.2 kilos. So 500 grams more. yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. how was your recovery? Did you like tear or anything like that? Do you remember? No, I had a small first, but it was featured healed beautifully. with Lydia, my first, I did have a second degree tear that did need stitching. but yeah, that tear actually healed really well. It was more that my bones in my pelvis hurt so much with her, but yeah, with Abby, it was fine. have a bit of a, well she did, she had a tongue tie and I ended up having to get that cut. But other than that, pretty straight-forward really. My poor sister woke up at 4am to a picture of a new baby. She knew I had her next feed and she was like, you've got to be kidding me, I've done 18 hours of labour and you had a baby in two! Yeah, that's so funny. Oh my goodness. And what's the gap between Abby and your third baby? Yeah, so her and Tess are two years apart. Two years. Okay, cool. And so after this experience with Abby at home, it was a given that like it's home birth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the treetops, he's like a soft tissue occupational therapist. like, okay, works in a private practice a bit like similar to physio, like doing body work, doing like needling and deep tissue work and things like that. So he, all his clients, he'd tell them all to go and have a baby at home. Ira can do something for 5 or 6 people to have home births as well. That's actually brilliant. So good. Did you think about anything that you would do differently, like second time, second home birth round? No, same plan. Yeah. Have a baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And did you return to work between the two? Yeah. Yeah, did. Yeah. I mean, I felt like especially I needed to kind of consolidate my own learning and career as well in between each of them, because I mean. Yeah. Other than that very first, you know, nine months after I graduated, hadn't worked full time. so I just went back and worked like two shifts a week kind of thing in between each of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I needed to get my own confidence as well in just being a practitioner. yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. We've got good family support, so I was able to do that. Yeah, yeah, that's lovely. And so. So first baby was 38 weeks. Second baby was 39 and three or four, maybe three or four. OK. And and with do you say her name is Tess? Yeah. Yeah. With Tess, how many weeks was she born? Yes, was the curveball. Yeah, always the curveball. Yeah. So they say. Yeah. So I think it was like thirty nine and six or something like it was pretty close to a due date. yeah, yeah, very dromal labor for two days prior. Yeah. OK, so yeah. OK. Did you have any other signs or was there anything different about your pregnancy? So by then I I really started getting into like all your spinning babies, like your fetal positioning kind of things, trying to get your body right to have the baby in an optimal position. I knew she was on the left side towards my back for my whole pregnancy. And it made me nervous because I was like, oh no, why are you in that position? And I had an anterior placental, so I'm sure that was probably why. I'm like, she's not going to lay against it, but she just was stuck in this, that like tucked into this little position towards my left hip. And that's where she kind of stayed for my whole pregnancy. And I feel like that's probably why I like was in this early library kind of thing for two days on and off was because. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And so what did the what did your program prodromal labor like what was that like? How was it for you? Well, I mean, I just thought I was going to have baby. So true. Yeah. OK. Yeah. Yeah. Like the start of all my other labors. And so we set the pool up and half build it. He actually believed me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, good. It was like. Just kidding. Two days later. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that is crazy. Like that's four, four-ish hours, two-ish hours. And then yeah, like days. Holy moly. so my mom was going to be there. My sister that had, my like one that had had the baby at the same time was planning to be there. and so everyone came over the first night cause we just. thought I was going to have baby. No. my goodness. So annoying. And one of my friends really wanted to come as well. And so she even came and then everyone went home again eventually. Yeah. But when do you call it? Because you're like, yeah, my goodness. So then yeah, I went to bed because they kind of all fizzled out and then I slept all night, like from midnight or whatever. And everyone else kind of bunked down on couches and things and then went home in the morning. And we took the girls over to my in-laws who lived down the road and left them overnight. And then the same thing on the Saturday, like the midwife came and checked on me. She actually was like, do you want to stretch this week? And I was like, yeah, maybe that will help get things going. And after she did it, she stayed because she just thought I was going to have a baby then too. I reckon, like she said afterwards. But I was five centimeters when she'd done that stretch and sleep and it did nothing like other than like irritated, you know, yeah, but that night again, same thing, thought that I was going to have a baby. Nothing like went back to bed, went to sleep and then wake up Sunday morning pregnant still. Yeah. Yeah. That's just rude. That's just rude. That's my goodness. Yeah so went back and got the girls because I was like well who knows when this baby's gonna come. I remember them being like why is the baby still in your tummy? I was like I don't know but I'm really angry about it like let's not talk about it. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah my goodness. Yeah so we picked them up and then we so Bennett's at the pool up again on the Saturday night thinking we're gonna have a baby half filled up with water like had to Yeah. And then on the Sunday evening, my mum had come over to just help Ben with the kids and get them ready for bed. And I was pacing up and down the hallway, still having these contractions that just obviously weren't really doing enough to get a baby. And we put the kids to bed and I sat down with him and my mum was there too. And I was like, I'm done. Pop the pool. The baby's never coming. I'm going to be pregnant forever, like lost the plot. I'm going to bed, like furious. Yeah. Yeah. I had, you know, like in the hospital, we give women like panadine port and tamazepam, like if they're in early labor. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I had some at home and I was like, I'm taking this and I'm going to bed. Like, so took this panadine port and took myself off to bed furious. And it was about half past nine or whatever. And my mum was like, Ben don't pop the pool because she's going to have a baby tonight. Yeah. my goodness. And then I probably got up an hour later and I was like super uncomfortable. And so Ben sat behind me and he pushed on my tummy. So he pushed on the light side that had no baby on it. And then like kind of tried to guide her into the right position. Okay. Yep. but while I was having contractions. And he probably did that for about half an hour, an hour and in between, was just like zonked. He was literally holding me up because I'd taken this sleeping tablet. So I was like ruined. And so it would have been about, I don't know, 11, 30, 12 o'clock. And I was like, just pull the midwire, tell her to come over and break my waters because I'm done. I just cannot do this anymore. She's coming over and she's going to do that. so Ben called it. she was like, look, I will come over and check on it. And I think she probably knew I was five centimeters. So she's probably like, yeah, maybe she is going to have a baby. again, he must've got the pool and stuff ready because it was already filled. And she came over and like then called my mom and said like the midwives coming over Sam's going to get her to break her waters. And you know, the midwife came over and was like, I don't want to do it. Like what if there's meconium, then we have to transfer, la la la. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, that's fine if we need to in my head. was like, I'm not transferring. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I also just was like, I think if you break my waters, I'll have a baby. I was contracting, but they just I don't know, they weren't doing anything. And so my mum got there and the midwife broke my waters. There was no meconium, so that was fine. And then she called my sister and was like, the midwife just broke Sam's waters. And my sister's like, I'm going to miss the birth. Sorry, both my sisters were there as well. They arrived probably 15 minutes after the midwife broke my waters. And she broke them and I stood up. And as soon as I stood up, I just felt the baby like shift and dropped right down into my car. Yeah, the baby's gonna come like now. Now. my goodness. so the midwife is like, I better call my second and it was my friend. My friend had worked for Sampy now so she was the second. Okay. wow. Yeah. She got to come over and the second in the delivery. So yeah, she called her and then I had the baby 15 minutes later. So half an hour after my waters had broken, I had her. Wow. Do you think like what have you thought? about like why you were in progeny. Like, do you think it was like her stuck in that weird position or her trying to get out of that weird position or like? Yeah. So I think that being in that wit or her, the uterus trying to move her into the right position, that stop star kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And like my husband credits himself. He thinks that it was him pushing and moving her into the right position. So it's all him. my goodness. Women are not machines. You can't just move things. my goodness. wow. So yeah. my gosh. But that's so unfair. That must be so, that must've been so like mentally challenging to like not once, but twice to have quick, relatively quick labors and then to be ripped off with a two day, you know. goodness. I mean, I remember afterwards I said to him like, my god, that was the worst. Like out of all my labors, that was the worst. And he was like, what do mean? was 30 minutes. And I was just like, two more days of this life. Yes. Yeah. And I mean, this is, this is like, yeah, like it's exhausting because it's not like you're getting like full, refreshing sleep, your body is working. Like it's, you know, even if you like, consciously don't feel like you are in labour, your body is like doing stuff and that in itself is exhausting. And then yeah, thank God it only took half along it did because like, you know, that's, that's when things get a bit tricky. But yeah, holy moly. And it is the only labour that I ended up having. to need an intervention. I mean, I already opted for one, didn't I, with my waters being broken. And then I also needed to have that injection from my placenta. Yeah, okay, yeah. I just started to bleed quite heavily and it wasn't, it wasn't coming out. And the midwives were quite concerned. So I still think they only said my blood loss was about 400 mil, but maybe they were just like kicking on that lower side. in case I want to have a baby because if you're over that 500 then you get kicked off the program. it's 500. What the heck? Oh my gosh. Yeah. I thought I was meant to be a leader. Oh my gosh. I think like some of the that's weird because I feel like the publicly funded programs here in Victoria are one leader because I've I know maybe three, two, definitely two, maybe three women. who yeah, have gone just over one leader, like, but like 50 mils or something. And like it's black and white. If you're over the over, like there's no negotiating. anyway, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like how can, yeah. I mean, yeah, I imagine you get much better at guessing, but like at the end of the day, it's just a guess about like how much. It is really. my goodness. Wow. Okay. And what was your recovery like with Tess then, especially with like two other little ones running about? Yeah. It was pretty good. She had a tongue tie as well. Okay. I identified the second that I put her on it. And I was like, yeah, you've got one. And so here in Perth, can actually self-refer to a GP that can cut them for you if they're like straight board anterior ones. Yeah, I just rang out the morning that she was born and was like, I need an appointment. And I remember the receptionist being like, what's her date of birth? And I was like, today. Oh God. bet you she would have gone home and told that story. It's like, there's a newborn today because like typically like the general public don't meet newborns like babies just born because you know, usually they're in a hospital and you know, there's visiting hours and there's like a bit of, you know, yeah, there's usually time in between, but with a home birth, you can do whatever the heck you want. I mean, rest, don't rest. It's completely up to you. Was it with Tess or Abby? I can't remember. I think it was with Abby. Like my sister came over. Yeah, because she had her baby as well. So at 5am, like her and her husband and her new baby came over to my place and we all sat around like looking at the new baby. my brother-in-law like had a beer at 5am to celebrate these like the babies and like Lydia woke up and because my mother-in-law was also there she just thought it was a party for her like it was just it's so cute like yeah yeah did you like have any like after like what was your first name sorry Lydia yeah Lydia Did you have like any like even with Abby like in, you know, recognizing that there would be a new sibling, like did you have like, did you do anything in particular to sort of ease that transition for either of them? Yeah, so the baby gave Lydia a present. So when she got up and there was everyone was there that I think that's why she thought it was a party because she had a present as well. she was like, everyone's here to celebrate me. but she was quite, she's just quite a funny kid anyway. So she wasn't really fazed about there being a baby around. She was, you know, happy to like go off and like, as long as she had someone giving her attention, she was quite happy. and then with Abby, when Tess came along, she was only two. but she, she was just a chill kind of little toddler. So she just wanted to help. So she, you know, as long as you asked her to like, get white, like she would go and do all those things and like to toddle around. And then I just use, would baby wear, like I just would have Tess in the carrier. And, you know, continue on with life really. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. now like, yeah, so that would have been like in 20, 24, how old is she? So Tess is eight, so 2016. Okay, 2016. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, wow. Does it get easier as they get older? Don't tell me that. lie to me. Different difficulties. gosh that's what everybody says. my goodness. time he hits this fight all the time. Yeah. It me nuts but. Yeah. My eldest is you know the typical teenager now which is a bit sad so she just hangs out in her bedroom. Sam, that's, I do try to think like with, Murphy, who's my four and a half year old, he said something to me the other day and I was like, my gosh. Like his life, like I've just, I've just seen a glimpse into his teen years and he's only four and a half. Just the way he said it, I was just like, what, what the heck? How did you even know those words? wow. and so. Transitioning into a home birth world, like that's that's so amazing. Like, guess, yeah, but I mean, you've obviously, yeah, it's hard work to become a home birth midwife. Do you have like any particular goals with your home birth midwifery? I, obviously, I'd love to just get out of the system completely. Yeah. So hopefully that will happen sometime in the start of next year or mid next year. I look, I'm very passionate about like positioning and things like that. So like that's my little baby. I do love all of those sorts of things. feel like, yeah, like, obviously can sometimes be long, but I just feel like from an evolutionary standpoint, it shouldn't be like, so. Obviously, the things that we do today are very different to what we used to do, you know, hundreds of years ago. that doesn't impact how people like to do body work, do stretching, like optimize your physiology. Yeah, get it out. And then yeah, I'm doing some like acupuncture course and things like that as well. I just want to little extras to my bow. And then I've got, I'm probably going to have Fiona come over who does teachers of spinning babies, also does that body work. Pelvic release. Cool. Yeah. So I've organized for her to come over and hopefully she can run a course for some of the midwives that live in her. So that's in the cards as well. So we've got a few things in the pipeline. Yeah. That's really exciting. Did you have anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to talk about or that we haven't mentioned or anything like that? No, I don't think so. I just feel like working at home is nothing like the hospital. Like I just can't. can't describe it. And as a midwife supporting it as well, the high that I get from even just being around it, it's just nothing like it. And watching women become mothers, watching women embrace that, embrace their power, embrace that raw primal them, it's so cool. It is. It's just, you know. What a job, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, that's why we want to work in birth work, right? Because it's addictive. We are, you know, we're searching for the oxytocin hit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I will thank you so much for sharing your stories and your journey with Home Birth Midwifery. Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks, Elsie. Thanks for having me.