Homebirthing 4.5kg (HBAC) 'Brontë' after c-section under general anaesthetic & PTSD diagnosis || Emilie's birth of Brontë at home (Victoria)

Episode 55 is shared by Emilie who is a Melbourne based doula, and HBAC mama who today shares her two extremely different experiences. She birthed her first baby Reuben under general anesthic during COVID in the UK, an experience which she soon after recieved a PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) diagnosis from. Following moving to Australia, Emilie was determined to have a different experience and so chose to homebirth daughter Brontë. Emilie shares this experiences and how she powerfully goddess squatted Bronte out in an incredible birth experience where she describes being able to reclaim her power and autonomy. 

Resources in this episode: 

• The evidence on epidurals https://www.sarawickham.com/articles-2/benefits-of-epidural/
• The cascade of interventions - The Great Birth Rebellion ep https://www.melaniethemidwife.com/podcasts/the-great-birth-rebellion/episodes/2148575903
• The birth map https://birthmap.life/
• VBAC vaginal birth after caesarean - The Great Birth Rebellion ep https://www.melaniethemidwife.com/podcasts/the-great-birth-rebellion/episodes/2148668424
• VBAC (vaginal birth after caesarean) - An Interview with Dr Hazel Keedle - The midwives cauldron https://www.buzzsprout.com/1178486/episodes/10779155

This episode is sponsored by https://dearmemothertobe.com/

Chapters

• 2:30 C-Section Birth Experience with Ruben in the UK
• 27:09 The Birth of Ruben and Its Aftermath
• 39:00 Relocating to Australia and New Beginnings
• 1:12:00 The Power of Homebirth
• 1:25:00 The homebirth of Bronte

Transcript

0:02

This is Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys, a doula in Melbourne supporting birth at home. I'm a mental health nurse and the co-creator of Home Birth Victoria. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast or my work as a doula, check out www.birthingathome.com.au. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Nam, Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. Episode 55 is shared today by Emily. Emily is a doula and a home birth after Cesarean mama who today shares her two extremely different experiences birthing her first baby Ruben under general anesthetic during COVID in the UK. And then having her daughter Bronte here in Melbourne, who she got her squatted out in an incredible home birth. If you enjoy this episode, please rate or review it on Spotify or Apple. I'm really trying to get to 50 reviews or ratings on Spotify and Apple before the end of the year. Every bit really, really helps. Enjoy. Welcome, Ellie, to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Hi. Hi, welcome. All the way from like 15 minutes away from me. We could have actually done this in person. I actually would have loved that. Do you want to give a bit of background to who you are, Emily? Who's in your family? Obviously located very close to me, but. Hello, I'm Emily. I go by she, pronouns. I live in the Northern suburbs of Melbourne. I'm originally from England, but we moved here about three years ago after my eldest was born. In my family, I have My favorite person in the world, my husband, he's called Jacob. He's brilliant. and then a wild three year old who's curious and magical and being three in all of the ways. Yeah. And then our youngest is Bronte, my daughter. Beautiful. And so today you're going to share your C-section birth with Ru a bit of a, a little bit of a backstory. for them, what I believe is going to be a very magical story of the birth of Bronte, who was a home birth after Caesarian, right? Yeah. And so Ruben was born in England and Bronte was born here in Melbourne. Yeah. And we moved in the middle, which was a of a plot twist, but yeah. I'm sure we'll cover it. Yeah, cool. I guess to start off with like what you know, especially coming from England, like my sort of thoughts about England is that home birth is really accessible. And like, I don't know what the rates of home birth are like in England, but I imagine it I mean, anyway, in Australia. Yeah, they are higher. I don't know the rates, but just anecdotally, I have friends who have birth, whereas here, have no friends like, yeah, in my inner circle, but and sometimes when I say like, I hate, had no I often say, to be honest with you, I have both of my daughters there. Everyone's like, really? How did you do that? What does that look like? It's like I'm speaking a different language. Whereas in England, that's quite a common and accessible option. And it's publicly funded as well through the NHS. I think, yeah, we have publicly funded programs here, but I guess the risk tolerance is just a bit different. Yeah. And so coming from, you know, the UK, like what was your understanding of pregnancy or like, birth growing up, do you remember? Honestly, not loads. just, my mom's mom had three, I'm the eldest of three and she had, I was breeched birth and she had three caesareans. But really those narrative around birth is that, my mom's narrative was we had the most three like greatest blessings of our lives. And it's always about more about the baby and not so much about the birthing. process at all. It's not something I've even really dived into. But yeah, I didn't have, obviously, I had a narrative around what birth looks like just from the media and growing up as a woman, but it wasn't something that I was particularly yet surrounded by or convert that there was not many much conversations around it. I always was fascinated by kids, like I just love kids. And so I always knew that I'd love to be a mum one day. That was something that I really aspired or hoped for for me. And, yeah, I wouldn't say I was fearful of birth or anything like that. I just didn't really have a robust understanding of it. I mean, it's interesting as I say that, because on our reflection, now I'm literally completely obsessed and fascinated by birth. So it's an interesting like development. I think about like, it wasn't really on my radar until I sort of became a little bit older. Yeah. Yeah. And now it's like, yeah, full, like fully in front of you like that. Your whole world is that you're also a doula in Melbourne. Yeah. So I'm a mental health professional. I'm a mental health in the eating disorder space. And then also birth and postpartum do that as well. Yeah. Which I absolutely love. like, I feel like it called me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I feel like it must have, especially if you've had like this big, you know, story arc on like not really knowing anything about birth and then, yeah. Yeah. Now being in the world of birth. so when you became pregnant with Ruben, did you have an idea of like, like what was what was your hope or like, did you they do get education in England or like what's what's was that journey like? Yeah, so we became pregnant with Rue in the midst of like right banging the first lockdown in the UK. it was definitely an interesting experience. feel like anyone who shares their story is like, yeah, we were pregnant in COVID. It was just like, it's very hard to explain. Sometimes really reflected it, but it was definitely a unique experience. In a way it was really protected for me because I, for both my pregnancies, I had HG for the first bit of time. Luckily not for the whole pregnancy. I'm my gosh, like I would not wish that on anyone. But in a way for me, that was quite helpful. Just not seeing anybody for a while because I just didn't have the capacity to see anybody for a while. But yeah, we were so excited to be pregnant. It was our third pregnancy. So we were really excited to be pregnant, but I guess the joy was a bit different. Like it felt like, a little bit of a different journey than the first two of our babies. So I guess I just was like navigating week by week, it was COVID. So it was a lot to get your head around anyway. But I guess like so many stories, just, was young, fit, healthy, active, really like prioritise my own self care and my mental health and my physical health. And so I really just was thought, right, well, this is what everyone's intention is to look after me. I'll have the baby in our local hospital where everybody else is sort of birthing. I didn't really give it that much thought. I hoped for a low intervention birth. And I think that's because I just like, was like, I'm fit and healthy and I can, I run and do yoga and all that. And there's no reason why anything would be different for me. yeah. I did, we did education. was all online. so I do think that is a different experience as well. I read some books, you know, I, but I really feel like a lot of my birth preparation was meant like my mental preparation, my mental mindset of like what was coming up for me, my relationships, my connection with my, myself and my body. think I really, I have, just, being pregnant for me is quite challenging, particularly feeling sick and for my body, but I feel like this sense of when I'm both my parents, I've sort of felt this amazing sense of connection to myself and my inner world that I guess I haven't experienced like that before. And so I would say a lot of my preparation was just around that connection to self and my intentions and my hopes and my baby and that sort of intuition that we are not really encouraged to really access. And then suddenly we are. Yeah. like, you know, what's your, you know, all of that instincts and questions like, just following instincts, like what, what did say? And I'm like, well, I've actually never done that before. So I've to learn about that first. And so that was a really beautiful journey for me when I was pregnant with Rui. Do you have like midwifery, like is midwifery care like, like, is it similar or? Yeah. Rather different. I went through the public system and it was COVID so all of my appointments were alone. There were 20 minutes with a mask on they would just it was a different midwife every time. Although actually, I lucked out a few times and got the same advice a few times. I was really as a mental health professional and just managing my own mental health on a day to day basis. I was really proactive in sharing a lot of the things that I thought would come up for me. Yeah, that might need extra support around. So I actually did get support from the hospital just to manage that sort of those sorts of considerations, I suppose. So that was really great. But yeah, like the maternity system, I feel like my reflection of the English maternity system is not normal because it was COVID. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. But honestly, like I was so excited to be pregnant. I was just so looking forward to being a mum. I have such a wonderful supportive family who were all so thrilled for us. Like we were the first, first couples have a baby in our family. So, both sides. So there's that element of like excitement and it just really felt precious to be carrying life when the world is upside down. Like, and that sort of, yeah, it just felt like a really, really special time. Yeah. Yeah. and do you want to give us a bit of an overview of how like the labor and birth of Ruben played out? Yeah. Yeah. So I, finished work and I was like many, I didn't actually think about the idea that I would have to wait for a baby. I think like, I can really empathize with anyone who's sort of waiting for their baby to be born because that sort of time just not knowing if it's going to be in three hours or two weeks, it's just a complete trip for me. And I am someone who loves to plan. So that was something that I really had to like. start becoming comfortable with. Yeah, we were desperate to meet this little person. So I did not rest in those weeks. I was doing all the things, you know, Googling how do I naturally, all of that, how do I naturally do, which I would, which I never did for my second child. I how can I lie down? So I was like walking and yeah, up and down the stairs. So on the, was 40, 39. I didn't even go over to you like Ruben was born on his, on his due date. But it's still like any time after, I think I got into my head any time after 38 weeks of baby can come. My due date in my head was 38 weeks. Yeah. Well, you know, it's possible then. you're like, mean, I have car seat? I have this? Like what's the, what's the comms tree? Who are we telling? Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So all of that. So, yeah, so I went into. It's funny looking back on it now because it was my first time obviously ever having a baby and I guess I didn't, I didn't, I say I didn't take full responsibility for this issue because I did a lot of education on sort of my intuition and connection, but I didn't fully grasp all. I feel like I have much better understanding of birth now. But I woke up on the Friday and I just knew, I was just like, I feel, things feel different. And I really was like, I think I'm going to be birthing quite soon. But that made sense. It was a day before my due date, a few days before my due date. So I was like, yeah, I think this is coming. Something's happening. And I had a trickle of waters. honestly, I was like, I've peed myself. And honestly, at that point, that was not, that was common experience. I was like, is it wee? Is it my waters? I'm not sure. Yeah. So I sort of just left it. was just like, I think I don't know what it is, but I'm just carrying on the day. But I definitely felt like things were, I didn't say anything. Yeah. Cause I didn't want to, honestly, I just didn't want to get myself excited. Cause I was just so desperate. me, baby. But I- especially like in, well, for me, at least like, you know, anytime past So like, yeah, 37, 38. Like in my mind, I was like, well, if something happens now, it might not even be the real deal. So yeah, I don't want to get my hopes up in case this happens for days or weeks. Yeah. And also we're like, we're at the tail end of COVID at this point. And honestly, every day is Groundhog Day. So was like, maybe today I can do something other than go for a walk around the block. So didn't say anything about, I definitely felt, like was having contractions and they were very manageable, just felt like period pains. Didn't say anything, but it sort of progressed as the day went on, slowly but surely. And then by the evening, said to my, I finally said something to my husband. said, I actually think I be, I think I might have be leaking waters. I'm not sure, but I sort of had that sense today and I really, I feel a bit like periody and I've been sort of breathing through some. sensations that are not familiar to me. But I'm not sure. on our, we had this file that we got given in England where when you go through the public system, you get this file which you keep all your notes in. And on the side it says, if you think your waters break, call the number. Sure. Yeah. And I was like, well, should we call the number? If you think it might be your waters, should we call your number? I'm like, I'm not sure. Like maybe, maybe not. I think it's happening, but I don't know. Anyway, we sort of had dinner, talked about it. And then I said, all right, I'll give them a call. So I gave the hospital a call and they said, yeah, come in and we'll just like see if it's your waters. Anyway. That was my like biggest regret I think is going in at that point because because of COVID once you were in, you were in. They didn't send you back because when you came in, you had a COVID test and then I was negative. And then we were in. So I had my waters, I had to check literally within 30 seconds. They were like, yeah, your waters are broken. We'd really like to keep you in. Again, I didn't question that. just thought in my head, I was like, my water's broken. My baby's going to be born probably the next 24 hours. I'm so excited. I'm going to have a... Baby on my due date. But didn't really fully consider what was happening and sort of that, what that meant. So at that point, my husband wasn't allowed in with me because of the restrictions. So they called him up and they said, yep, she's, her wits are broken. So you had to go in, be checked without any support. Yeah. It gets worse, honestly. Anyway, so we talked about what would happen from then how that would go. They were like, Yep, come that's we get to meet you on to the on to the ward. So I went on to the ward. they basically by yourself at this time, I'm with Jake, my husband, and he moves me into the ward, they all move me in, I set up my space. This is in a shed. You know, I have the curtains and stuff. But there's other women on the ward, which is just a weird experience when you are in labor, like to be in labor with other people. And I wasn't. Yeah, it was definitely early labor at that point, but still like you're in this space. had my headphones on. I was trying to do all the things that I had learned by reading and creating my sort of safe place. And then they were like, okay, well, Jake has to go home now. And I was like, okay. I'm in labor though. And they were like, well, you're not, you're not like, it's clearly not, you're not in active labor. We'll call him when you are. And at that point it was like maybe 1130 at night. So I was like, I'm ready for bed. That sounds good, but also bye babe. I'll see you in the morning. Like, please keep your phone on loud. So he left and I ended up laboring there and being an early labor on my own all night. And it was really, it was a pretty tricky time. mean, like it was hard in one sense, but also magical in another. I really used that time, I of reframed it. used that time. I like, this is the last time I'm gonna have my baby in my tummy. I really like focused on the sensitive areas. refocus. yeah, yeah. And my, I had my headphones in, my eye mask on. Like, sounds like when I say I had to labor on my own for eight or nine hours, I think it was, but actually that was one of my most treasured time in that labor because I really was like, this is me and a baby and I really get to connect. And I didn't ask for permission. I ran myself a bath. know, like that wasn't allowed because my water's broken, but. no one really cared because it was like 3 AM and I was like, I just want to have a shower and a bath and that means I can get off this noisy ward where they check you all the time. I could just kind of retreat. So I am, I just ran myself a bath and got in there and just really use that time, for myself. And it was really nice, but I was awake all night on my own and I was, tired by the time the morning came. The morning came, they came in and they're like, yeah, we're going to move you now onto birth suite. you know, at this point I'm sort of more like, more in labor. But as soon as I got into the birth suite, everything just stopped like my the birth suite was just lights and brights. And also I was just desperate to have my husband there. And I feel like my body was like, you can't continue until you have some support because yeah, it's like in that time. So yeah, so I had my husband, I brought my husband he came, he was literally there. He barely sat there because he was like, well, what's gonna happen? Yeah. And then things from that point started to, yeah, progress. I ended up consenting to an exam, I wanted to know what was going on. That led to some conversations around that speed things along. You've been in labor, that's, you you're more severe breaking risk and infection, blah, blah, blah. And that again, I wasn't fully across all of the edge, like the risk and the benefits, the way that the information was portrayed to me was very biased in terms of, we want to like, let's hook you up to the drip, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a really pretty, I hadn't slept, I hadn't eaten. I've obviously been in labor for a while now, early labor, but still, you know, took my attention. and I, they were trying this midwife who I did not really vibe with at all. it's amazing how your support team really can influence your experience. feel like I can still now name the student midwife who I absolutely loved in that space and I can name the midwife that I do. And it's really interesting. I'm always banging on about who is in your book, but like, who do you want as your birth support because it can be massively impactful. like your hormones and how you feel. But I ended up having the drip and the, what's it called that you put in your? Yeah, the, like the IV. Yeah, the IV. I just passed out. I just completely passed out, lost consciousness. And that was pretty stressful because they pressed the red button. Everyone was in. And I had to have an so when they're, so when they're putting it in, then you've passed out. Wow. Yeah. I think I was a mid-contractor and wasn't really sure what was happening. And then I blacked out and that was scary. Everyone came in, my husband was pushed aside. And it took a while, like I was fine afterwards, I just came to and they gave me some water and blah, blah. But I think it took my body at that point, my body was just like, and we are not laboring anymore. You have literally just passed out. We are no longer in labor. yeah, so it took a long time for me. I know if my body ever really recovered from that point in terms of like I was at that point quite frightened. I was tired. was hungry. I just passed out. just passed out. My husband was there, but he was in the corner. Like it was interesting. It was a difficult time. We came to and then we start and then sentencing started. And that just as I'm sure you heard a thousand times that went from nothing to a hundred percent in no time. like, again, I really, when I think about those surges, I I had some really enjoyable experiences of those searches. really felt like for the first time, my body, those sensations in my body and I had my music and I was watching friends and I like did everything, but it really like within a, like maybe half an hour, it took all of my being to be present with what was experiencing. and we did that for a while. Like this, at this point, I've been in a bit the day before that day. So pretty much all day. and it kept cranking up the sentocin and yada yada. Yeah, I got to the end of the day and I was absolutely wiped. And so they talked different options of what I could do. And I asked the epidural, I wanted to have some rest and at this point, I was getting quite anxious. I was thinking, this is taking a really long time. really, I'm really at the end of all of my tools. I felt like I had used as many tools as I could in that moment, but really didn't have any more tools left. And again, like the, the mid rise It was the changer of midwives. And that was sort of again through me. we hadn't been able to once because of the restrictions, once you were in your room, you couldn't leave your room. And again, I really felt like I needed a change of scene, but there was no scene to change. was just, I hadn't even thought about that. my goodness. Yeah. And neither could my partner. My husband couldn't leave because he had a test and was in. So like he couldn't get food and he was wavering. And it's just a lot to put on one person for support. Like, it'd be like, you can't leave the room and we can't get you any food because like it's a lot for someone to have to hold. Anyway, I asked for the epidural. Long story short, epidural didn't work. even when it didn't work, like even at that point, things became an emergency situation. So we were very quick in that moment. It's all quite a blurry. And especially because you passed out, you know, so you're, you're not nourished. Your body's not nourished. You're probably dehydrated. Like got the drip happening. Like, yeah, yeah. Tired. Yeah. And I like, you don't know what you don't know, right? Like I now know all the different things. do things differently, but actually at the time I was really just desperate to meet my baby. yeah. Yeah. And there are some beautiful parts of that lady that I think about like, in both of my labors, they are my favorite ever day with my husband more than our wedding day. Like I just feel like we connected in such a magical primal way. And I think the reason I'm fascinated with birth is because we live in just this world that is so lacking authenticity and that everything's sensitive. And the thing that for me that is like like birth is the one primal thing left. Yeah, it's left alone. it's like for me just this like, beautiful, simple process. And I think when I think about that labor, there are all things I do differently. But there were some beautiful notes my husband, I really connected with all the tools that I had, I was really proud of myself. I felt like I made the best decision for me and my baby at every point. Yeah. With what I knew at the time. So of course. The epidural, I thought would be the godsend. Honestly, I was so ready for a break. I also my anxiety was getting on top of me at this point, I was becoming quite overwhelmed by each contraction. And as soon as I started feeling overwhelmed, already the contractions were wild with the sentocin. But yeah, I was also getting like anxious about what was happening. And I sort of had this sense that something was wrong. But couldn't, I was just too in the labor to really express that apart from with my voice. with my sounds, I should say. Anyway, so not long at the epidural didn't work. They tried a few different things. It wasn't working. And actually, that for me was actually quite a painful process because obviously, you're having traction and you're trying to have it. Yeah. And the idea that things are going to be a bit more manageable coming up, then just make you feel like, my gosh, hurry up, hurry up. And it wasn't happening. But even like before we could figure that out, I sort of went into fight or flight mode. I think I kind of completely dissociate from what was going on. To be honest, I was just like, I can't be here. Yeah, in this moment. And then there was an emergency called so that was a whirlwind. I, it's, I understand an emergency. I, but I also feel like we can do, there has to be a better way of communicating to women when that's happening. Yeah. so we went down, there was conversations. I remember there being conversations, but I don't remember the conversations. No, I mean, it's like. Yeah, I find, I mean, as you would have experienced as well, supporting. You know, families to, you know, in their pregnancy and to birth and whatnot, like you can have all of the knowledge, but whether you're having an amazing experience or you're having, you know, this experience is so different to what you could ever have. dreamt up or imagined. Like when you are giving birth in whatever way, you are in like a different realm, whether that's in a good realm or a bad realm, you're like not present. like consent, that's not the time to be like doing consent things talking about important like, like, so I yeah, I can completely understand that that would all be a blur. Yeah, it's all a blur. But what I do remember is we went down to the theatre and I was, again, I was having contractions and I was like, trying to manage them. So I don't really remember that journey. But I remember it being pretty fast. And yeah, it was a it's a really difficult time to explain. But I had to deliver under general anaesthetic for the safety of both of us and Honestly, it was just awful. But I think what was really interesting is the language that was used around that. yeah, so I delivered my son under general anesthetic. He, I don't obviously have any recollection of what happened because I was asleep, but I woke up in a part of the hospital that I hadn't seen before. I was on my own. I didn't know where my baby was. And that was pretty bad. to be honest. But then one of the most amazing moments happened after that where my husband was with Rue at the time. So I had no concept of how long I was out for. I only know that now. But Rue was with this little tiny little puppet was with my husband. And I just remember my husband just like swinging. I know his story and that's his story to share. But I just remember him, like this sense of, I could feel his sense of urgency to being with me. And like, he just, I was completely drugged up. I, know, I just woken up from the house, I I had tubes. Yeah. There was medical stuff going on for me. And he just like, pushed open his double doors with zero regard for anybody else in the room. And he just was like, I need to see my wife. and just threw himself on top of me and we were just sobbing with each other, being reunited. And all of my emotions and oxytocin and all of that beautiful stuff just went straight to Jake. And we were just like, and I had, honestly, until Rue, my little tiny gorgeous little squish, squeaked. I didn't even realize there was a baby on my chest because I was just like, I am so pleased to see you. And then I looked down and this beautiful little baby was on my chest and he was sucking his thumb and I sucked my thumb as a kid. And he had an ultrasound with Rui and he was sucking his thumb too. I just like, as soon as I saw him, I was like, this is my baby. Which was just such a godsend because I obviously like not seeing him being born was really difficult for me to process. But as soon as I saw him, I was like, this is my baby. He's sucking his thumb and he latched straight away. And we just had a, yeah, it was a really difficult birth and I've spent a lot of time processing it in lots of different ways. Like if anyone's listening who's had birth trauma before, there's, have, yeah, there's however you want to manage it is just, it's so hard. It's like the hardest work I've ever had to do. It's processing birth trauma. did E N D R, counseling, like I did, you know, weekly appointments. but it was really important for me to process what happened. And I feel like I'm at a place now where I can reflect on Ru's birth and see all the goodness that was there. And I was just delighted to meet him. I just was so thrilled he was here and okay, because of course there was a period of time where I didn't know if I was going to be okay or if he was going to be okay. The Aeneithetist who put me under really used a bad, really used some language that was difficult. He told my husband and I to say goodbye. And for both of us, we really interpreted that. as something. my goodness. So that was really challenging. But I guess that's sort of the context of the reunion for me. I really didn't know what was going to happen. I was- Holy moly. When I was going under, I was like, please save the baby. And I felt like this real maternal instinct. So when I met Ru, it was just, it was all about, it was always going to be like, it was him. It was always here. And it was just so wonderful to, yeah, have him. Just pausing here to let you know about this episode's sponsor. The Dear Me Mother-to-be Pregnancy Journal was created for the brave women who want to be transformed during pregnancy. It is a one of its kind pregnancy journal filled with 48 reflective questions to facilitate powerful inner work and healing and assist with mental preparation for labor and motherhood. It goes deep on many topics that commonly arise for women during pregnancy, such as addressing labor fears, the mother wound, and worries about motherhood. There are also many questions that can be shared with your pregnancy and birth support team. The questions were carefully formulated by experienced counselor and home birthing mother Stephanie Bevert. She was driven to create the journal after her own empowering pregnancy and birth experience and her knowledge of how powerful inner work can be during pregnancy. Dear Me Mother to Be is proudly a mom run Australian business who ships Australia wide. visit the website www.dearmemothertobe.com for your order and access free pregnancy resources. And so the postpartum journey was different, I'd say. Like we were, I was diagnosed with PTSD pretty much in the hospital. But when I reflect on my postpartum journey, the birth trauma was one thing and it was an awful and huge thing to manage and deal with. honestly, really dark times. my actual if I reflect on my postpartum experience, I just had a wonderful place where I had some beautiful support my life from my family. I felt surrounded by love and support and care. I felt like a goddess. I just felt like I've done my body felt like we've been hit by a bus. Yeah, of course, of course. I just felt like I've done something wonderful. There was this beautiful little person. We had some wonderful because it was again, it was England at that point, people were coming out of COVID and there were there were no restrictions anymore. Whereas I think, well, I understand that it was a That meant like people were coming, we had visitors, but they were like considered visitors because we were still in that COVID time. People would still be quite considerate about that. Yeah, such a weird time. Yeah, we had a beautiful, I breastfed Rui for two years. had a beautiful journey, which really for me was an absolute godsend because I felt like I could really, like I really attached to him. Yeah. Yeah. And I just absolutely like even now when I think about it, I just think there's nothing like having your first baby and that time where it's just like you can just stare Everything's new. Yeah. Yeah. they're asleep and like breathing and like their movements. It's just so wonderful. Yeah, he's such a brilliant and special boy. And it was just so, yeah, I was just so thrilled to meet him. was, and I still, I still feel grateful, like even thinking about it now. just like, I think it had that layer of like, I've met, like, I didn't know what was going to happen, but now I have this beautiful person. So yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really beautiful. That's like, yeah, that's so powerful. And I think that's very inspiring that, you know, you're able to, you know, however many years on be able to like share this story with me in this way for you know, all of the other people out there that have experienced birth trauma and you know, I imagine at some point you perhaps feel quite stuck and will things ever be better? Like will I get past this and yeah, so I'm really, really grateful that you've shared that part of your journey. thanks. think the biggest thing for me afterwards, I just felt like I'd failed somehow. Yeah. Like I wasn't, I wasn't awake for his, I must have failed. Like I failed at the first hurdle because of what happened. And now I feel like, gosh, I mean, you can't fail, but like, literally have like, you can't fail. It is something you can't, you just can't. I am a perfectionist. I'm recovering perfectionist. But I feel like that for me has been such an important unlearning. Yeah. That like, you can't fail, but like we can't control everything, but you can't, it's not something you can fail. And so I think for me, that was a huge learning. I just thought everyone must think I'm an awful person because of that. And then I'm like, now I think, gosh, I don't know why I even, that was such a weird thought. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it also goes to the power of, you know, yeah, your mental health and wellbeing and like how, you know, you know, three years on or whatever that what that, you know, and I always say this word wrong, an ethotist. Yeah. That person, whatever, like they said, you know, in that moment you, remember that, like you hold that and like, I, like, I don't know how accurate it is, but it does sort of make sense to me that. Like obstetricians or I don't know if this is just related to like private obstetricians, but like they're so invested in that that moment and the birth birth actually happening. And then however many weeks late, it's it's like nothing to them. Like they've already experienced so many other births after this. So like your story is like they don't even probably remember your name, you know, like but the power of such a simple thing around language in emergency situations like could have such a butterfly effect, know, like a butterfly flaps its wings and like whatever like a tornado happened somewhere else kind of thing. Like, do like, I completely agree with you. And I just think the power of language is so like even having a doer to explain it would have been so helpful. I think, in my situation, Although that was something that I felt, you know, that could have been there. I am really, really grateful for the team that worked on me. Like, really, I'm not anti intervention when you need it. I definitely would think that in my situation, I would have made different choices, but in that situation, I would make that decision every single time. And I think like, I do, there is a time and I think language could definitely be considered. But I also am really pleased that how they like how they acted and how they look Yeah, if something goes wrong 1000 % catch me at the hospital. Yeah, 100 % yeah. That's where I'm going. It's such an interesting, it's such an interesting things to hold. To feel like, this is really, it's a really interesting. Is it paradox or like, have two different things. Yeah. And so How old was Ruben when you moved to Australia? Five months. my goodness. Wow. Holy moly. Okay. So we hotel quarantined in Melbourne. Yeah. That was a time. Yeah. with a five month old, but again, I actually really reflect fondly on that because it was just like a time, just the three of us and, five months is a great time because they're still napping a lot. And yeah, they can't like run away from you. Yeah. They're not toddlers. that was great. we moved here. We settled in, I started a new role quite quickly when I was here. work in eating sort of so, yeah, I was able to find a role that I really love. We have family, my husband's family are from here. So I felt like that was a really beautiful soft landing. I really get on with my in-laws. So that was a really lovely, like that was just, I felt like I was able to sort of land really softly here. Of course it's a huge thing. my gosh. And I think post, now I look back and like, you moved across the world. after a like with dinosaur PTSD and to Australia, Australia is not close like it is a long ass plane ride. I was just like, I think in it now I think, gosh, I don't think I'd ever recommend anyone who's in postpartum to do that But it was the right decision for us at the time and we had our reasons for it. And I wouldn't, I don't regret it at all. So yeah, so we landed here, we settled here. We bought our beautiful house and started a renovation. And then very, honestly, the shock of our lives, found out I was pregnant again. Had you had time to, had like a moment, especially like moving literally to another continent. Yes. Had you had any like moments of like reflection, especially in the context of PTSD to think if this happened, if I am pregnant again, if I choose to be pregnant again, or whatever, how might my journey be different? Had you had time to think what might you could I was processing. I processed a lot in that year. So I fell pregnant with Bronte when Marie was 18 months. Yeah. I didn't find out I was pregnant. There's a little bit later. But had done so much processing, I found a brilliant, I had wonderful care in England. They diagnosed me pretty much straight away and I was seeking support. Again, as a mental health professional, knew that this was, I was like, this is what I need to do. And I really value that. There was not a lot of stigma for me to access support. I sort of really felt like I leaned on my connections for that. that was really a, I realized how privileged I am to be able to access support and it's not available for everybody. So, but I was seeing someone weekly in England. bi-weekly to begin with and then weekly. And then when I arrived here, my non-negotiable was to have a support team for my mental health when I arrived in terms of like, had a birth, I found a local birth trauma specialist and I had weekly appointments. So I did a lot of processing. I think my initial response was, I'm never having a baby again. Like that's fine. Like I had this. And again, I think that was just, was like, I have one in a minute, like my beautiful, beautiful boy. And I just was so like, just can't. How could my heart ever share? yeah. And also just like, am like, I don't have capacity to figure out other child because this is my child and I'm so tired. Like, yeah. And I know like, just learning how to mother and what that looks like for me. So, yeah, I think I hadn't considered a second baby. I, when I started to be like, are we choosing to be one and done? And that was a very real conversation for us and something that we. spent a lot of time thinking about and talking about. I was very much of like, yeah, that's probably the right, that might be the decision for us. But if we were to have another baby, then I would choose a different, like there were considerations at that point that I was very much like, I know, I now know what I didn't know. And I was also really, really passionate about perinatal mental health as a mental health professional, I'd worked in adult mental health and children's mental health. And then suddenly was like, satellite to be supporting women in this time. and so I worked at, in the perinatal mental health space when I arrived here and as well and did my studies and was kind of like, like, just opened my eyes up. So I think I've thought a little bit like, what would I, if I had Rue again, like, what would I do? What I've done differently? Like a lot. but also his birth story is his birth story and so taking responsibility for that and. Yeah, like I say, there are some magical things that happened in his labor that I wouldn't take back. So, yeah. So your journey to finding doula training, how did like sort of briefly, how did that like come about? Yeah. Especially because, you're thinking like, am I one undone? You're like dealing with all this PTSD from birth. Yeah. And then you're like, like I'd to go see the birth. I really think it really highlighted me how doulas are. So, a doula can't save you. You are the only person that can birth your baby. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. But I just could really see the impact that, I think as a mental health person as well, could just see that the doulas are in the room and there's something about having someone on your side and advocating and giving you the information in a different way. Yeah. I just could really see the impact of that. I was also supported so, like, I cannot stress how much I was supported in postpartum. I honestly thank my lucky stars every single day for that. And I think I realized that I was extremely privileged to have that love and support and that people are often navigating, you know, they've just had a baby, so their body is healing and they also might be healing emotionally and they have a little person take her up, like, it is so big. Yeah. I just thought, cannot like women cannot do this alone. Like I've literally muddled my way through because of support. Like there has to be we deserve better. Like, we just deserve better. So I just felt like really passionate about like, I have these skills. I'm passionate about it. Turns out I'm really fascinated by both. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just thought like, I just really want to be, yeah, present and person centered for birthing people. Yeah. Yeah. And so you started working as a doula before you became pregnant with Bronte? I started my training. Yes. I'm doing like placements and stuff. And then we found out we pregnant with Bronte and that was a wonderful surprise. Yeah. Yeah. Bronte, if you ever listen to this, you are a wonderful, right? I love you so much. Yeah. It took us a little bit processing. I will be honest. Like I was kind of in shock. I had, interestingly, had or notably something that's really sort of held me through my pregnancy with Bronte was that I had a dream that I was pregnant. People talk about birthing dreams, like pregnancy dreams a lot. love this, yeah. So if you're still listening and like, she's going woo woo. This is something that really held me through my pregnancy. This is, have spoken about this before. does happen. Yeah. I had a dream before I found out I was pregnant. Yeah. That I am in this dream. And like full transparency, I had had birthing dreams before, but they were very much like trauma and trauma dreams. So I didn't really love dreaming about birth at point, but I had this dream about birth and it was a beautiful dream. And I was in a house at home. And there was this older woman in the house with me who was there helping me labor. I mean, I was laboring, obviously, women and birth and people do all the work just to clarify. But there was another person there and I was at home and I had this I had a baby at home and that was my and I just was had this like feeling of restoration and healing and joy and the baby was called Eden. in my dream. Wow. And yeah, and it was just a really beautiful dream. And I really felt like connected to that dream the whole my whole pregnancy and that I found out I was pregnant. I woke up and I was like, that was my dream. And I was like, am I pregnant? And then I took a test that morning and I was quite pregnant. Wow. That was my beautiful. Holy. And then, yeah, so I was quite shocked. But again, I guess the dream kind of helped just like held me in that sort of moment where I was and I remember texting my best friend and telling my husband. My best friend is the godmother of my baby. And I always think about that like moment where I found out I was pregnant with her. was like, and now that's your godmom. So yeah, so I then very quickly, okay, I was shocked. And I wasn't really sure how it happened because I was still taking contraception. Yeah. And I was like, I just, was breastfeeding and I went through and I just was like, I can't. wanted to be born. She was planning your dreams. She was planned by someone. She is, she wants to be here and my gosh, I'm so grateful she is. So I was in shock, went to the GP because in England you just go to GP and so I knew that that was, I had done my training. I knew that, so I went to the GP and I said, I think I might be pregnant. I've peed on a stick, but I also know I'm pregnant. I can feel now that I'm pregnant. And can you just, I'd like you to just take a blood test please. So, and at that, I have a GP that I really love. I have a really good relationship with her. I felt like we had a really good relationship. And she said to me in that appointment, yes, we can take. you can send it for a GP, but I know that you had a cesarean before, so I'll book you, if you are pregnant, we'll go down the cesarean pathway. And at that moment, I thought, holy, I'm not gonna swear, but I thought a swear word in my head, because I thought I haven't even got my head around the fact, I don't even know how many weeks I'm pregnant, like I have no idea, didn't have a regular period, I have no idea, and you are asking me to walk into the place, that I was traumatized as was my husband. Like I will, I cannot have this conversation with you. Like I don't even really know. I haven't, honestly, I haven't even, it's like been 24 hours since I thought I might be pregnant. I can't, I just went into the spiral and I came out of the appointment and I rang my husband and I said, I will not be birthing in the public system this time. I don't know how we're to do it or what that looks like, but I cannot have a conversation like that again, because it's not psychologically safe for me. I, it's like, I'm not, that's not happening. And at that point I've done, yeah, so I think that was the catalyst of the pregnancy with Brunty. Again, I was sick for 17 weeks. was really, anyone who has HG will understand it is the pits. But I just did pregnancy this time so differently in a sense. I took full responsibility for me and my baby in that pregnancy. Like every decision I made, I looked into the research. looked at what tests I was going to do, what tests I wasn't going to do. I knew that a private midwife was the way forward for me. wasn't especially, I guess the dream sort of made me feel like I'm like, I always sort of knew deep in my soul that I was going to have, I might have a home birth. I, for me, what was I needed, I needed a continuity of care. I wasn't going to mess with that again. I hired a doula straight away and I already knew which doula I'd get because I'd connected with a few doulas of training and I'd figured out who I was going to get. So I contacted the doula who I just cannot speak highly enough and I just think everyone should have it. Every woman deserves, every birthing person deserves a doula. Every support person deserves a doula. So I locked in continuity of care straight away. again, I really acknowledged my privilege that I was able to do that. We shuffled a lot of things around so I could do that. that was the only way I was going to continue the pregnancy was if I had support. And for me, it wasn't really about the birthing outcome. Yes, I literally had a dream of having a home birth and a lot of low intervention birth. And for me, was really about I really wanted to be awake. And for me, the way that was going to happen was a low intervention birth. But for me, it was really about mapping. wanted to have that support. however the mode of birth that my team knew my story, I didn't have to explain. didn't have to fight anyone or anything. was literally, is the information, this is my story, this is who I am and what I bring to this pregnancy. And I know that you guys will be on my team and support me. that for me was so important, and particularly because I was in Australia only I was literally here a year before I got pregnant. So I hadn't really formed. Well, I feel like I'm gonna say anyone who knows me listening, who knows me personally, will be like, you form deep connections, but I think for me, I was still like finding my tribe, finding my tribe. Having people on my team for the journey was really important. So I did that. I really focused I mean, I felt like I was very solid. I became such a birth nerd that I felt like I sort of knew a lot of the stuff. But the biggest thing for me was working with my partner, my husband about supporting. We watched birth time together. watched all these brilliant videos of normalizing birth. And what's the other one that you can access that so good? Not birth time. There's another one. something time. We watched some documentaries about it. I'll ask. You'll find it. Yeah, I'll find it and I'll put it in the description. yeah, yeah. There's quite a few. I thought you were going to say Born at Home, but it wouldn't have been out. No, I've not watched that. If you haven't watched Born at Home, it's really good. Yeah. So we just did lot of work together and I really listened to this wonderful podcast and learned about Catherine Bale and her birth mapping. Yeah. And so I did this in... massive birth map around like all the different pathways. And really for me, I was just to start, like I was just planning out every avenue of what was going to happen and how I could look after myself and my baby in each, in each avenue. So I really took like full responsibility for it. The other thing I did differently was that I turned off the noise. I don't know what happens when you tell people that you're brilliant, but people have so much to say. And so I was like, nah, I'm like, it was, I am a I have people pleased the majority of my life. So this for me was the time where I was like, no, I'm going to listen to myself, my baby. I'm really going to lean into my instincts. I, in that nine months, 10 months, was pregnant with Bronte. I, it has transformed me. Like the way that I move around the world is so different. just, that time was such a time of intentional connection to myself and my intuition and my instincts. And I just have like, unlearned so much of that good girl. Redemptive. Wow. And perfectionism as well. Yeah. Which is so common. mean, I definitely can relate to that. And it's, you know, one of the reasons why I'm so glad that I found and chose home birth or, you know, private midwifery care because Like if I was in the hospital system, so many times I hear stories and I think that could easily have been me. Like I, I'm non-confrontational. know, I can know things. Advocating for yourself and Labour is, I mean, if people do that, good for you because I think it's nearly impossible. Yeah. You are not like, there's this like saying like you go to the stars to pick up your babies. I don't believe that for me. I had to walk through fucking fire to get it. But, like advocating for yourself in the or in neighbour is just, that's another reason to get a deal. To get someone who can... Yeah, somebody, yeah. So yeah, so that was my pregnancy warranty. And again, like I say, I, people would ask me, like, you, where are you birthing? And I didn't really share that with anybody because honestly, I had my idea of my dream. I shared it with a few of my closest people who I knew would support me. My doula, my midwife, obviously my husband, a few people who I felt very safe and close to. But even then, anybody else, I just was very vague. And honestly, that was my truth. I think I was, I had this sense that I, and this knowing that if I cannot, I will birth at home. And that's an option for me because that's my risk tolerance. And obviously being a feedback, people have very different, people have very risk tolerances. Well, of course, the GP is automatically booking you in for a C-section. And like the narrative, of course, in the world is, it's like, we know you've had a C-section. So like, what's your choice? And I just was not open to that conversation because I felt like I have to make my own decision here. And people would share their opinion on our, like, would share their opinion or fear with me. And it was... And that was hard to just like, be like, no, that's their reality. That's coming from their point of view, but I really need to go back to what I am thinking, like back to what is important to me. So that was, that was my truth at the time. I really was like, I don't know. I don't, I, I'm going to see, I see how I feel. And that was really my truth, but I would always anchor in to the knowledge that actually this is, I would love this to happen. But I had lots of, as I say, I really mapped out. Yeah, much every opportunity. And for me, again, having the doula was something that I knew that if I had if exactly the same thing happened again, with my second birth, I have I've taken responsibility in terms of my support and my postpartum support and my boundaries around a really mapped out my postpartum. And I knew that like that, that I'd be okay, you know, like that I took responsibility for that. Yeah. Period. As well. And I, I really didn't outsource a lot of knowledge. I really felt like it was my time to really connect into into what I knew about myself and my body. Yeah. And that's hard when other people have had opinions about your body and all that sort of sort of navigating the world. But yeah, I felt really strongly that was about that. Yeah. Can I tell you about my birthing day? Yeah, so just I just really wanted to touch on. So so you got a referral for Your midwife. Yep. Was it from that GP or? Yes. I went back to that GP and said, I'd like a private midwife. Scrap you. Your automatic C-section plan. Yeah, cool. She pushed back. back. She pushed back quite hard. And that was my first opportunity to advocate for myself. And I did. And I got the referral. Cool. And I found, I interviewed a few midwives. Yep. I really went into my gut feeling. Yep. and I knew as soon as I met my, the midwife that I hired, that she was going to be the one for you. me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She was an older woman. Yeah. And she was, just, yeah, a complete, I just love her. couldn't say dream. Yeah. And she was so great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. I think, yeah, that's so, so special that you've had this. dream and like it's, yeah, folding out, but like it sounds like, so, you know, like you've said, the main thing about having the private midwifery care and the doula was to feel in any, you know, potentiality psychologically safe. At what point did you feel, or like maybe before that, especially because I know we chatted. very quickly before we started recording about the whole professional indemnity thing. Yes. Did any of the midwives that you interviewed have any like, no thoughts or comments about you being a V book mom? No, no. The midwife that I hired was like, great. So where are we birthing? I remember our first match was like, great. Are you birthing in the water? Are you birthing on land? And I was like, I think I'm going to birth on land. I feel like I want to, I think I'm going to birth on it. She was just not phased at all. And for me, think that was one of the reasons I hired her because I was so phased by my first birth. That someone who was like, great, let's talk about where you're to birth now. It was such a wonderful narrative for me. And the way that she talked about it was so trusting in my ability. Like it was just having that person to be like, yeah, you got this. Like, this is going to be fine. Yeah. And so when did, and Well, I guess also I wanted to know, like, so your husband, you know, obviously, you know, because we talk about birth trauma for the woman or the birthing person, but like the partner, how freaking scary must that be for them? Like how, when you've, when you've proposed this, well, I'm not going to have this experience here and you know, these are my other options. And one of them could be birth at home. Did he have like any like thoughts or concerns or feedback around that? my husband is, as I said, my favorite person in the world. Yeah. And yeah, he processed things quite different to me, I'd say. Okay, yeah. We are I think we are attracted to each other because we are quite opposite. Yeah, well, and it's his story to tell. Yeah, yeah, In terms of his experience of Ruth's birth, but he was very pro home birth. Yeah. But he was, to be honest with you, he was just pro me. Yeah. Like he was like, whatever you want, like whatever you feel safe doing, know. Vacuum. Yeah. I think he saw, think, I want to talk to him about it now. He's still shocked. Like I think it still shocks him how that birth just stays, it's just not one day. Like it stays with you the whole, and I think he's still like, wow, that day that Ru was born, we will never ever forget that. Like we can grow from it, we can learn each other. Like, you know, it doesn't take away from the mother or the parent that we are or the gorgeousness of our child, but like it's something that we had to move through together. And I think like when we were pregnant with Bronte, Jake was like, Now it's got to be like, have to take control from this point. And again, like I say, I wasn't like, we were exploring so many different options for us. And so we were talking about, but at the end of the day, he was really putting me in the driver's seat. Like, this is your buddy. like credit where credit's He did a lot of work as well in terms of, how to be the best, best support partner. And I think the first time around, we just thought we're in love. We'll wing it like oxytocin. We can do that. We're great at snogging. Like let's do that. which we did a lot of, but I think the second time around, he was like, no, there's more nuance to that and needs support in a different way. And I'm going to really invest in learning how to do that. And again, our doula was so helpful in supporting him to be present for me. Yeah. There's nothing like that. It's beautiful. That different energy in the space. Yeah. Yeah. And again, the other brilliant thing was that all of our appointments were at home with a private midwife. And he was able to be at every appointment. Yeah, at first time, like he wasn't even able to be at some scans, you know, like, it really was just like, you see the belly grow, you know, it was, there was not that involvement or connection until the birthing day. Yeah. And so, well, in my case, birthing four days, but I think like this time around, he could hear the heart, you know, that was such a different, it's so, it was so much more evolved. Of course. And that's again, that sort of element of taking responsibility for that was really beautiful for us as a couple as well. So, at how many weeks or like at roughly what point did you sort of lock into home birth? Mentally or? Any I think because I mentioned it was all again, I was just trusting my, I did feel, I would say I felt a deep sense of calm. Like by the time I was like in my third trimester, I wasn't, I worked out, I'd worked through all my fears. I'd worked through a lot of what was going on and I was just really. Yeah, it's just honestly, got to, I can't believe I'm saying this. And as I reflect on it, I'm just like. Wow, that's so cool. Yeah, I got to a point in my third trimester, which I was just excited to birth again. I was just like, I can't wait to see what I learned from this, what my baby teaches me, my like, what I learned from my husband, our connection. Yeah. I was just really excited. So, were you, because I guess one thing in why you said that, Jacob? Yeah. Jacob has, Jay has family here. had you like one major difference with having subsequent births is the presence of previous babies. Was Ruben going to like be present in a home birth setting? No. no. I think it's beautiful when siblings are present. Yeah. It was, This was my birth. wanted to be fully present. Something that I feel, still feel sadness around is that I wasn't awake when I delivered Rue. Of course. For me, I was like, I want to be fully present for this experience. And having Rue there would have taken my attention away. I wanted to be fully present for every surge. I wanted to be fully present for what was going on in my body. I wanted to be able to access the intuition without distraction. And Ru was two at the time and being two. a great doler. No. while I think, yeah, maybe I didn't give him chance to be honest, but he did wake up when I was a neighbor and he was like, mommy's being a tiger. And it just made me, yeah, I just, I love that. I remember that so vividly. so, yeah, he really caught, just, he was cheerleading me in that moment. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he was taken. to Jacob's family or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. do you want to work like walk through, like, the lead up in the birth of Bronte then? Yeah. So, yeah, I went to 41 weeks with Bronte. I felt no sense of urgency to have her. Yeah. I really lent into that waiting. I, I sort of prepared myself better in that sense, like, or differently. I know there's no better or worse, but I prepared myself differently and I really cherish every moment. every day, arrested way more. Yeah, I was excited. But I also was like, this, okay, she'll come in her own time. Yeah. Again, having the private midwife, I had no worries or pushback about anything. just felt and I really I was intentional about blocking and I actually encourage a lot of my clients do this. I just turned my phone like I just had my midwife and my dealer on like emergency bypass and everything else. I was just like, no, it's just noise. Like, yeah, I just don't need that. And My labor with my sort of events of my labor with Bronte are pretty much the same. Just a completely different pathways. really interesting. I was I should have said with bro, I lost my Puget mecus plug as well that morning when I up. I woke up on the Friday. No, the first day. Yeah. lost my plug. Text the Mozilla to say, I've lost my plug. which means if it's anything like last time, baby's coming. And she was like, yep, great, send me a picture. So I did, you know, the vibes. Yeah. And what was in early labor. So all the first day was in early labor, ignored it, carried on. My sister-in-law came in for lunch. I ignored it. Didn't tell her it was in labor. Apart from I get getting like really hot, like my cheeks would get really hot. And I was like, It's my cheeks giving me away. Just sort of potted around, nourished my body, got my music on. Yeah, gosh, early labor is so fun for me. just, find like even thinking about it, I'm like, it was just such a nourishing time. I went for walks, was intentional about time with my son. Decided that was the time to clean out my Tupperware drawer. Like, know, all of the things are important. Yes, that was Thursday, went to bed, things ramped up Thursday night. And I thought, tonight's the night. Fell asleep, woke up occasionally, woke up on Friday, like up another day. Yeah. Got up, had a coffee, had a nice breakfast, told Jake that he shouldn't go. I was like, you need to finish work. Like this baby is on its way, but I just don't know when. What does he do for work? He works for an engineering consultancy. Okay. I think I honestly can't really tell you exactly what my husband does. That sounds good enough. Like something in his corporate, corporate, yeah. isn't that funny? I feel like I should be able to elevate what he does. the story is okay. He finished up at work. He had a beautiful day together, walked around bounce snowball. I sent my son to grandparents house. just thought I just really want some time without a toddler on my person. So I lots of balancing on my ball, was in contact with my do-er. Basically things just plotted on. I had a contraction every 10 minutes for Thursday and Friday and Saturday. And I knew I was in pain and I would have to breathe through the contractions. And there were some that would take a lot more from me. There was one contraction I remember where I literally dropped to my knees. Yeah. And then the next one I, it would just be like, I can just manage this through my breathing. Interesting. Yeah. It was really irregular and different. Yeah. I had a midwife appointment already booked on that Friday. So my midwife came around, just encouraged me and she's just wonderful. She just was like, what's your intuition saying? said, I think I'm having the baby on the full moon and the full moon was the next day. Wow. Yeah. And we like chatted and it was lovely. she just supported me through the contractions I had at the time. She's like, you're doing great. This is perfect. Like just keep doing what you're I won't lie to you. When I woke up on the Saturday morning, I was pretty pissed off. I was like, I got to the point where I was like, I have been having contractions every 10 minutes for two days. Like, let's ramp this up. Like I want to for walk. I ended up calling my sister and that's sometimes what you need. It's just your sister and having a chat with someone you love. And, I ended up bringing Rue my, my Rue been back. home because I was like, I think I need him back because at that point he'd been like sleeping and staying at my grandparents house. I just need him back. So brought him back. Just had a normal day. Things definitely were at that point. Jake, Jake, I was like, you need to take him away for a bit because I just need some time. So Jake took him swimming. And then that evening I put my son to bed and we did the normal routine. I put my son to bed. And as soon as I put him to bed, I thought, we're having a baby today, tonight. And I just had that sense. I just shut his door, came outside. We were watching Brooklyn Nine-Nine like we always do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we had got takeaway and we started playing a board game and I suddenly just was like in the middle of the game. was like, we have to stop now. Like I cannot play a board game. I have to now birth this baby out of my body. Onto more important things. Now it's about nine o'clock. Yeah, and I had dreamt of that moment. I hadn't, I felt like I, because it was so different to Rue's birth, I could like set up my space and it wasn't in a hospital and I had my husband with me. And so that again, like everything was just like, like reclaiming that space. So we had, I got like, had like organized to have like a box of like fun labor things put out so that we put our affirmations up and our like festoon lights on and we opened the back doors and the full moon was full. I had like bought myself a bunch of flowers when I was in early labor so I could like you know have them. I just treated myself like the goddess I am to be honest. And I was sort of swaying through them. put on my like one of my shirts that my mother brought me, had bought me ages ago. Do you have that slight sense of For some reason, I have a real attachment to this shirt. Yeah, I'm gonna wear this as like, I feel close to my mom and even though she's on the other side. Yeah. And yeah, different like last time I told no one I was in labor. Last time I told everyone I was in labor, this time I told no one I was like, this is our time. Like I'm gonna read this. This is reclamation. We decided to go to bed because we were like, let's lie down. I think I lay down for like 20 minutes. And then I was like, right, I'm on all fours. And the husband was next to me just doing his sadoki, crosswords, just like, I didn't really like being touched in that statement. I didn't really like being touched when I was having a contraction, but I just needed that presence of someone. One of the best things about having a home birth is I felt so comfortable using my voice. And I cannot tell you how healing that was for me. I felt like I was finding the voice that I've always had, but not. ever use. think I've had a history of mental health stuff and eating disorders and that sort of thing. So I feel like reclaiming that part of me to make, I'm just going to take space. Like I'm going to use my voice to claim space. there something about using my voice to reclaim this birth, but reclaim this voice for my daughter. was like, I want her to have a voice in this world. And it is hard as we know sometimes to be a woman. Yeah, in the world. And I was like, I'm claiming my voice so I can pass this voice on. So I really took the voice like, and it was the for me, that was the best tool in labor. I loved using my voice and I was noisy. Yeah, yeah. And it was loud. Yeah. And it was wonderful. And I stayed in bed all fours at one point, I think Jake was like, Hmm, your voice has changed. So he messaged my doula and was like, Hey, can you can't like, I think it's probably time that you come. She'd been on standby, obviously, a few days. Yeah, yeah, like, can I just listen to a contraction and she listened to that I'm on my way. And she came up like one of the things I sometimes think is that we can often invite people into our space too soon. this was the perfect time because I felt like I just wanted that I had a few hours just with Jake and then suddenly it was yeah, I like I had the support of another support person and she brought just different energy and she was everything I needed in that moment. Yeah, I moved to the bathroom. We just renovated our bathroom and so I was in this shower that I dreamed of. Yeah, literally. Yeah. And water for me was like I use water in roos labor. Like I'd had a bit of a shower but it had something about being in your own shower. Like I could just put the plug in or I just could just move around and the acoustics in the bathroom. I just sounded like a primal goddess. That's when my son, so when my deal arrived, my son was picked up by my wonderful mother-in-law. Perfect. Yeah. And that he gave me a big cuddle. He told me I was being a tiger and I said, yes, I am. And I just use that as fuel to my wonderful laughing that's so beautiful. Yeah. I then got out the shower and as soon as I got out of the shower, transition hit. That was about 3am. Yeah. That was about the full moon. And let me tell you, she called. Like that transition. Like if you want to, if you're listening for a pain free birth, this is not me. I worked hard to meet my baby. I loved every minute of it. Like I felt like every sensation I had, was fully present. I wouldn't describe it as painful, but it was like, I can feel it now if I think about it. And I transitioned hard and I did not want to transition. I did not want to go through the portal. I was really firm on not going. And then I was like, Yep. I'm going. again, this, like having the power of affirmations for me were really great. Like I felt like they really grounded me. did we use saying them or was somebody else saying them? Yeah, brilliant. Yeah. And I had a, I had a birthing track that I had that also had affirmation. so I went through the course of transition. That was a time. and then as I came out the other end, my doula said, I think it might be time to call midwife. And at that point I said, I need to go. need, we need to go now. It's time to go. Like I need, like I need to go to hospital. Like I can't, like it was just like, and at one point I was saying all this shit and I was saying to my husband, just take me to hospital. I didn't even have the epidural. Like I don't think I'm, I was in denial that I was having a baby. think because of, was just expecting the ball to drop and like an emergency to happen. And I remember saying all this and then I, My doodle was like, why don't you just go for a wee because you know, they tell you to do that often. So I went to the toilet and have a wee and I was in the like just resting between at this point they were coming to think of us but I was just in the middle of resting and I said to Jake and my doodle I said, don't just completely ignore what I'm saying. This is all labor smack. I don't need any of this. Don't listen to me. And I literally like the next contraction was like, you need to You know, one of the most brilliant things that I do, and I'll always remember her saying is that, you know, you're doing it, you're amazing. Like, this is it. This is the time is now. And I was like, yes, the time is now. I'm claiming this for me. So my midlife arrived, her presence was, I just, I won't forget, like she just walked in, put her stuff down. And it was just like, it just was so calming to me. She put her hands on my shoulders. And she just said, this is the holy grail of birth. You are doing it. And I was like, this is the holy grail of birth. And I am going to have a baby in my living room. Like this is happening for me. And yeah, she was amazing. And I pleaded with her and I was like, no, no, no. I was in transition. You know what that's like? It's hard work. But I pleaded with her. She told me to go and I was like, I need to have a... pretty, we talked about not having any V vaginal examinations, VEs and labor. But at that time, I was like, I need, I just need you to check where I'm at. I was in denial that I was having a baby. That for me, the transition was like, the biggest crisis of confidence was and I think I hear this a lot with people who are pursuing a VBAC, that their crisis of confidence is that they're having a vaginal birth. I was just like, I don't believe I can't believe it. I'm not this is not happening to me. And so I asked her four times, please, can you check me, please, can you check me, please, can you check me? And on the fourth time she said, okay, I will. And we did that. And it was a beautifully consenting process. Like she was really, and again, it was just the night and day compared to my experience in hospital. And she just said, do you want to know the number? And I said, yeah, yeah, I bloody well do because this is getting intense. And she was like, you're almost fully dilated. Like you've done this all by yourself. where do you want to go? And I was like, Ooh. So again, it just gave me that sense of like empowerment. Like I can go anywhere I want to go now. Yeah. I went into the shower, I was in a shower for a while. And then I started the, I started pushing. And as soon as I got out the shower, like, I don't want to be here. Sort of moved around. went onto bed, pushed on the bed. This was my first experience of pushing. I've done a lot of, like I listened to a lot of people who explained sort of that stage. I don't know if I loved that stage. found it to be like, everyone was like, you know, if you work with sensation, it's a really nice stage of the labor. But for me, it was like, at that point, I was like, I just need, I just want to have a baby now. I did a lot of hard work. I pushed hard for a while. Yeah. in lots of different positions, but again, it was just, nobody told me what position to go in. I just sort of moved instinctively, followed my body. Yeah. my water still hadn't broken at that point. So I then went on to the toilet and then had a contraction. My water's broke. And as soon as my water's broke, the ring of fire was, let me tell you, the ring of fire. Like I just, I have this video because my doer took loads of videos and I was going, gosh, it burns. burns. Yep. I am always just like, gobsmacked when people say that they did not. experience the Ring of Fire. was like, that was not my experience because I felt that ring of fire. me too. But at that moment, had I felt the Ring of Fire. And both my doula and my midwife were dancing. And my second midwife had a ride and they were dancing and they were just so excited for me. And I, I had, I'm gonna cry thinking about it. I had this moment with my husband, where he just started crying. And I just looked at him and he said to me, babe, this is happening. Like the dream is happening. You're having a baby at home. And I just started sobbing and I was like, I'm having a baby at home. Like I'm doing this all by myself. Like nobody has done anything. Like I've been completely, it's all on my terms. I just couldn't believe it. just couldn't. And also I think it was the first time that I actually had to trust myself and my body. And for someone who's had body image stuff happen before, like. And having my husband say that to me, like, this is how, like, you are doing this on your own. Like, it was just so wonderful. And then at that point, my midwife said, so do you want to have the baby on the toilet? Because her head was coming out. Yeah. And I was like, no, this is not how this story ends. Like, I am not having a baby on the toilet. after all this, in no way. So my husband, God bless him, literally, like, I can't, he just lift, I don't know how he it. He just lifted me. Yeah. Whole pregnant me. and like took me to the living room. Yeah. And I tried one position to push where he was holding me from behind. And I was like, sat and pushing that way. It just did not feel right. I think I did two pushes and I didn't feel right. Yeah. And then I thought, right, I'll go on my hands and knees. So I like flopped forward, you know, in all your pushing glory. I have this picture and I have that, that blue line. yeah. I have this picture of this blue line. so, I literally look at it all the time. think it's fascinating. And I pushed on one, one go on all fours. And I said, I said, it just doesn't feel productive. I just does not feel productive. And my midwife confirmed said, yeah, it doesn't look as productive. Like, and then I just said, I need to be left. Like I want to do this on my own. I this video of me saying, I want to do this on my own. I just want to be left alone. And I full on goddess squatted. Like. start naked, body like, squatted like in a, if you know yoga, that like yoga squat. yeah, yeah, yeah. Clinged to like my two sides of what one's like the TV, you know, stand thing. Yeah. And I roared and I reclaimed and I roared and my baby was born in one push. Wow. Like I just got into that position and I started roaring and Bronte, which means thunder. Brilliant. And that's like reclaiming that space. Yeah. And I birthed her in one push into Jake's, Jake's hands. And she just came out in one push straight into her dad's hands and Jake put her straight on my chest. And that was hands down the best moment of my life. It was, I'm indescribable, indescribable. I have never felt anything like it. Like I can't even describe it. The power that I felt, the healing that I felt, the power that I felt is indescribable. And I want to do it again. again. again. It's addictive. Holy moly. That was it. That was Sunday morning. Full moon Sunday morning. She was born. She was 4.5 kilos. Brilliant. Beautiful, beautiful 4.5 kilos. She... just made a small squeak and nuzzled in and latched pretty much as soon as I put her on my chest. Yeah. And I just was, I just spent the next hour in tears and in shock. And I just kept saying, I've done it. I've done, can't, but like, I've done it. Like I was thanking me. Yeah. Yeah. And everyone. And yeah, I was just, honestly, I was just beside myself and My husband helped me onto my sofa, which was just literally, I was on the living room floor. So he just put me on the and I lay there and we were waiting for the placenta and I was awake and I had this hour of golden, the gold now that I've been told about and didn't really understand it. And honestly, I was kind of not really there. think I was in a different, I was still in neighbor land. Of course I hadn't birthed a placenta so you're still in neighbor land. But I was, yeah, just. It was just an indescribable feeling. also to see, also that Jake was able to be there and catch her. the whole way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And no one touched the baby. I didn't want anyone to wipe her down. I think she was covered in burning. She was on me. We were completely skin to skin. I had a blanket put over us, which was again, something that reminded me of home. And someone made pancakes at some point and we had pancakes and tea. Brilliant. my God. It was just this wonderful Sunday morning. And I remember seeing someone walking their dog. I went there and I wanted to be like, I just passed the baby. Yeah. And I don't know if it's the same in the UK, but in the Netherlands where my husband's from, it's like very common. once you have a baby, you do like announce that you are well, I mean, it's a disservice to like women and birthing people, but they put a stalk usually like a picture of a stalk like in the front yard or the front window or like, you know, welcome. baby or something so it is like a declaration that like yeah the baby is here the baby is born and the person has something incredible like yeah like however you birth I think is incredible like I honestly women who like however you birth I think it's just absolutely incredible and you know I think like there's this yeah narrative around I think women are strength like women better people are strength personified like it's just incredible and Yeah, so it was great. And I, we had all these wonderful plans to wait for the percenter. Yeah, we waited an hour. went to the toilet. Center wasn't coming. But I also I knew that it was coming. Okay. I was like, I think it's gonna but I was over at that point. was like, I want to have I just want to snuggle. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I said, like, I have the sin, toxin injection and I did and that was that worked for me. I didn't plan to have that, but at that moment I was like, I'm done now. I really feel I want to walk away from the portal. And also I was tired. It had been a few days. And then my duet just did the most beautiful, she helped me to the baby and ceremonial cord cutting again. That was new, we didn't get to that with Ru, so that was really wonderful. I think we did that together as well, because I was like, I want to be part of that. And then my doula helped me shower. And that TLC, like having someone with you and like your body is so, you know, that feeling after you've birthed, it's still quite foreign. You're finding your gravity. that again, night and day, like I didn't get to shower for literally days after I had Ru, but with this, was like, pretty much a few hours later and my doer helped me like wash my legs and my hair and dry me. And that was just such a kind, kind offering. Like I feel like that was such a kind thing to do. And that was it really. Like we ended up going to, like it was always part of my plan. wanted to get everyone to sort of check out. So we did that and then we were home and it was home and I was on cloud nine. I honestly, she's like what 16 months, 16 months old and I'm still on cloud nine. the whole, and I felt like as I'm sharing this story, I really feel like it's actually one story. It's not two different stories. Like it's a, it's a story of becoming who I am and becoming the mother and the person that I am. both of their stories are their stories, but it felt to me like one experience of, like reclamation and becoming and of course, it's really inspired. think I bring that into my like, everyday life. Like how, how do I try? Like, do I trust? What's my instinct saying? What do I think? Like, I don't want to, like, I don't always have to outsource knowledge. Like I, I know some things. that sort of power. And also what I want to pass on to my children as well. Like, I'm really conscious that when I share these stories, there were challenges in Ruth's birth and there were, and so much healing in Bronte's birth, but there were challenges in Bronte's birth and there was so much healing in Rue's birth. So I just feel like their stories or my story of birthing has been absolutely transformational. And however you birth your baby, is, you are a flipping goddess. Like it is incredible having babies. And, you know, you wouldn't wish the world, like we wouldn't wish birth from one anyone, but Like for me, that sort of story of, yeah, it's just been, it's just the most precious thing I've ever experienced. So it's beautiful. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. And like, I just, you know, if people make it to the end of this episode, I just want to like, I like just want to emphasize that, you know, sometimes, you know, moms say, I have this many birth stories. blah, blah. Like, do you want me to share just like one or two? And I'm like, no, like, if you want to share your story, you kind of have to share the whole thing because not every, every single birth, like is different in some way. There might be similarities, but every like, it's like, yeah, an evolution of yourself and your stage in life and Like it's important to see like the whole picture, like the whole rainbow, just like not one color, you know? and so, yeah, I, yeah, I'm really, really grateful for you being vulnerable and open and sharing your story. before we finish up to finalize our thoughts on the stupid professional indemnity insurance issue. So as it stands right now, what category, like would you, you know, come June? No, I would not be to have a baby at home. Yeah. Okay, cool. That's messed up. Because I had a C-section, a prime mousse's area. I also am someone who would say that I manage my mental health every day. Yeah, I manage it very effectively. I would say like, you know, that's important to me to just like I manage my physical health. Yeah. So there's a category there. I have had COVID as well in the past. So I'm another like that would would risk me out. And to be quite honest, if it passes and we know that it's only a certain risk criteria that midwives can support, that would prevent me having any more babies. if I were to have another baby, then I would probably make different choices. Because I It was such a, yeah, I can't imagine anything different now. the, yeah, I think it feels safer to me to have a baby on my terms in my home or at least having, yeah, I don't know. Whatever you want. It's you to have whatever birth you set out And it's interesting, like as I'm talking about it, I'm like, actually, I don't know how I feel. Like if I have another baby, I will lean into my instincts and whatever, but I don't know what that will be. I might feel that it's, I would like, my instinct might say, have a baby in hospital. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where we feel safe. Me and my baby feel safe. It might say birth at home with a midwife. It might say birth at home anyway. Like, I don't know what my instincts will tell me at the time, but it's up to me to decide that as a person with A human being. A human right, yeah. So yeah, I thank you for all the work you're doing in this space because it's really important. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much.