VBAC in the car & breech freebirth + bicornuate uterus || Brenda's birth of Hudson (2022) and Holden (2024) at home & in the car (New York, USA)

Episode 54 - Today we hear from Brenda in New York.
Brenda’s first baby Harper was in a breech position and although she initially planned to have a homebirth, she ended up agreeing to a c-section.
Her next baby Hudson was head down and born on the way to the hospital in the car, an incredible VBAC story, and for her third baby Holden, he remained breech, and although she called her midwives, the labour happened so quick that in the end, only her doula was present. 
I initially saw Brenda’s brilliant stories shared on her instagram and I’m so glad to be able to share another breech story and HBAC story on the podcast. 

Make sure to share this episode! 

Resources: 

• Yoga Girl's Birth Story https://www.freebirthsociety.com/podcasts/free-birth-society/episodes/2148192922
• Bicornuate Uterus https://www.spinningbabies.com/pregnancy-birth/baby-position/breech/breech-bicornuate-uterus/
• Breech without Borders https://www.breechwithoutborders.org/

Chapters

• 4:15 Learning of Homebirth
• 6:00 Finding out baby is breech
• 11:00 C-section with breech
• 18:00 Bicornuate uterus
• 19:00 Planning a VBAC with Hudson
• 41:00 Giving birth in the car
• 1:14:00 In labour with Holden at home
• 1:21:00 Birth of breech baby at home

Transcript

0:01

This is Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys, Adula in Melbourne supporting birth at home. I'm a mental health nurse and the co-creator of Home Birth Victoria. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast or my work as Adula, check out www.birthingathome.com.au. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Nam, Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. Episode 54 is such a great episode. Today we hear from Brenda in New York. Brenda's first baby, Harper, was in a breach position. And although she initially planned to have a home birth, she ended up agreeing to a C-section. Her next baby, Hudson, was head down and born on the way to the hospital, an incredible vaginal birth after Caesarian story. And for her third baby, Holden, he remained breech. And although she called her midwives, the labor happened so quick that in the end, only Hadula and herself obviously was present. I initially saw Brenda's brilliant story shared on her Instagram. And I'm so glad to be able to share another breach story and home birth after caesarian story on the podcast. Make sure to share this episode and enjoy. Welcome Brenda to birthing at home a podcast. Thank you for joining me. It's 8pm your time in the state of New York. Yeah. The state of New York. I'm so excited that we found a mutual time to chat about your three births. I first saw your birth because I think, did I see a video of Hudson? Is that maybe how I saw it? did you? Maybe. I know he's on, he's out there too. Yeah. Now he is out there. Yeah, I can't. quite remember, but anyway, I'm very excited. So you have three little ones. I might get you to give a bit of background to who you are, who is in your family, that kind of thing first. Yeah. So I'm Brenda. I live in New York. in Queens, New York. My husband is Sean. He's a firefighter. I'm from Jersey originally we met and then he became a firefighter. So it wasn't, he wasn't leaving New York. So I moved. to New York to be with him and then we got married and then ended up having kids back to back to back. And my first was Harper. I'll just get into it. We were trying to get pregnant and it took quite a few months, but I didn't know my cycle or anything. And the whole time we were dating, I think I got off birth control. Maybe when I was like... It just didn't make me feel good. So it was never on birth control when I met him. We just took precautions and stuff. And then when we wanted to try, we didn't, you know, I tracked my cycle, but I didn't know anything. And it took a few months. And then finally we got pregnant with her. And then I was all like, 2021, I'm 2020 into 2021. Just a lot of information circulating around online and figuring out, I didn't think when I got pregnant, what kind of birth do I want? It wasn't until I got pregnant that I was like, what kind of birth do I want? Yeah, okay, so you never really, had you heard of home birth before? I have, I just like, home births can go wrong too. So for all the listeners Holden is only three months. So Holden is also joining in. Yeah. And this is bedtime so he's trying to fall asleep. Yeah. I guess the first like real home birth story I knew of was like yoga girls birth story. Yeah. Cool. And that kind of like made me want to have a home birth. But at the same time, like I didn't. I didn't know what it entailed and all that. The more I went into it, the more I was like, yeah, I do want one, I do want one. But I live in New York and there's a lot of really, really strict rules for the hospitals. And I, just with my third pregnancy, was just learning to have a home birth with good midwives. A lot of our midwives are trained to birth in hospitals still. you have to like really research your midwife out here. Totally. And then breach birds in hospitals are also just unheard of and Harper ended up being breached. And I did. like once I knew she was breached, I had called hospitals and just to see because I heard like this doctor might or this and I just wasn't confident enough. And then I did. I haven't tried to look for it, but I listened to a podcast of this woman who had a breech baby and she did the ECV. I forget if she did or didn't. If she did, the baby went back to, no, maybe she did and the baby ended up staying head down. But I think, like I remember like listening to it and then I was like, I can't have a breech vaginal birth because her doctor in the story told her like, You can try for a breach, but if the baby gets stuck, we're pulling the baby out the opposite way, like in the emergency C-section. And that just sounds horrifying. I'm sure that's true, but it's just like now the third pregnancy and the second breach baby, it's not as likely. You have to pick and choose your risks. Yeah. But so when I first heard that, I was like, OK, we're doing a C-section kind of thing because I wasn't confident. I didn't know enough about breach. So initially I'd been hoping to have a home birth with Harper. Yeah. Yeah. But I knew it wasn't going to happen because my husband also wasn't on board. He's like he's a firefighter and doesn't do good with blood and body fluids. So in both my V-backs, you don't see him in either of the videos. It's funny, but he was driving and then at home he missed Holden's birth. my goodness. It was a perfect scenario for him. Yeah. And me because I don't want his nervous energy either. Totally. Yeah. We understand our boundaries, so just worked out perfect. yeah, so with Harper, even though I wanted the home birth, just knew since it was the first, also he wouldn't be comfortable or ready with it. And I know it's like not his choice, but I wasn't also ready. Like I also wasn't ready. Cause I didn't know enough yet. I didn't feel like I knew enough. Well, home birth is kind of like this mysterious thing when you've never heard, never when you don't know a lot about it, but then breach like bum first, it's like very, you know, nobody really knows about that outside of like, you know, the immediate birth world. Yeah. And yeah, I've heard plenty of stories that in Australia, like women that are wanting to have breach vaginal births in hospital settings, that often they are told they'll have to be in like the surgery room already in case that they determine a c-section is necessary. Often I believe because the skills of vaginal breech birth, like in terms of like how to support that process, if it needs to be supported, those skills have been lost. yeah, it happens here as well. Yeah. And it's hard because I didn't realize, like I've always heard like breech births need to be hands off, hands off, hands off. Yeah. But then like when I went over it with my doula for the last pregnancy, like she was showing me like scenarios from Breach without borders. Yeah, where like you do need to be like there's certain scenarios, which I didn't know Yeah, I like, well, I'm glad that preach without borders exists because I wouldn't have known either, you know, and she's on the Yeah But I did get a dual with Harper, but it wasn't my tool for the last two and she was great She just lives in Brooklyn, but like a little further from where we are So like to commute to where I am is a bit of a drive But she was our jewel for the first one. It was just like a letdown. Well, we switched to the birthing center and then they kicked us out. So we had to go to like hospital and I just didn't know enough, wasn't confident enough to even attempt and then hearing that birth story. And there wasn't many breach birth stories that, you know, I feel like the last like two years just You know, we had kids back to back to back, but like the last two years in or that like pull up with more and more bird stories. Yeah. Yeah. And so we switched to a hospital midlife. She was great for a C-section. Yeah. And yeah. And then we actually we scheduled the C-section with Harper for like 39 weeks, I think. And she ended up coming 38 and five. OK. which I was so happy because I didn't want to schedule a date. And we went in, my water just broke in my sleep and we finished packing my bag and we went in, had her like that morning and then it was great. The recovery was fine. you know, I didn't know what to expect. I never had contractions really. I think I started getting crampy right as we went into the OR, but we waited for like five hours in the hospital. for the C-section. It was just so busy. was like Mother's Day and I guess a lot of people went into labor or had scheduled C-sections that weekend. it was, and like I wasn't purchasing. Yeah. That's, can't believe, I never really thought about that. So your body was like, okay, let's go. And then, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And now I think of like my last. Labor, I guess it was for five hours by the time I was the morning. was to say, you could have had half an Yeah, so nothing happened for five hours and then I started getting crampy but it still wasn't anything. But now I wonder if I started, would it have progressed faster and faster? Yeah, yeah, yeah. interesting to think of. But it was great, the recovery was great. I almost fell asleep right before they pulled her out. Wow. My husband was just rubbing my head. I was tired and hungry and of course, yeah, meds and stuff. Recovery was fine. I still have like the little shelf till this day. Yeah. But trying to figure out what that like, it's fine. But I don't know the exercises for it yet. So I've been trying to look into that. Yeah. And then that was it. And then I Harper turned like five months. And my husband's an only child. And he's like, I could do this again. Let's do it. Before you change so at this time as well, what was COVID coronavirus like at that time for you guys? It was, they started, I know in New York, they made like everybody get the shot. I didn't get it, but my husband had to it for work and It was just like they were just requiring it and then they ended up dropping it. And like I'm a yoga teacher. So I, the spa that I was teaching at before COVID hit had asked one to get their classes going again and asked me to come back. And I wasn't pregnant with Hudson yet, but I wasn't getting the shot because I wanted to conceive again. he, but they, couldn't go back because I refused to the it was just they were in a sticky situation. And, know, I teach there now. So yeah, okay. Yeah. You could end up lifting that rule. then I'm so sorry. Like I needed to stay at business. I was like, No, I get it. You were in a sticky situation. Yeah, didn't need to go back to teach. But if it was there, would have gone. Yeah. So it wasn't it wasn't bad. They just it was just like sticky situation for everybody. Yeah. Just trauma. And so after hard by end breach, you know, that whole journey, like having like planning the home birth and then the birth center and then hospital and then C-section kind of journey. What, you know, only five months on from that kind of experience, had you thought about trying for a home birth like with Hudson or what was your thought process there? I just assumed we were going to have to schedule another C-section. if we did, I was going to try and schedule it, like, or just not schedule it and, you know, do my own thing and go into labor again. Because I don't like taking a date. Like, I feel like I don't want to mess with Faith. Like, yes, I didn't want to mess with Faith and I didn't want to. I don't know. That's just how I am. So I was like so grateful that my water broke and it was just the day that she wanted to come. So when I went back to the midwife, found out on a Facebook group for like Long Island around here that she wasn't delivering anymore. But when I called to make an appointment with her when I got pregnant, they didn't say anything on the phone. And then like she didn't say anything to me at the appointment. I'd taken her like two times for two separate appointments. And it was just, it was weird. Another couple from like Sean's firehouse also went to her and then same thing, didn't know she wasn't delivering, but went to go see her for their second pregnancy. Yeah. then it was kind of like halfway through their pregnancy, they're like, wait, you're not delivering anymore? So it's interesting. So she really wasn't delivering but she wasn't being upfront about it? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. So it just weird. It kind of like rubbed me the wrong way. Like, I don't know if she just assumed they told me or what. But then I just remember she would tell me like, like, go see the other doctors. And I didn't understand. And then I saw a Facebook post and I was like, wait, she's not delivering. Yeah. Well, I had asked her about doing a VVAC. And so she did give me some confidence to look into it. was just, but the answer was, if you go into labor by 39 weeks, definitely we'll let you try. If not, we'll schedule a C-section. So the limit was 39 weeks. I'm kind of in my head already, I'm going to do my own thing. But I just didn't like the timeline. And then I went to go see the other doctors in that office. And they were nice, but they're medical still. Yeah, it's different. And it was just the same answer, like 39 weeks. I have this feedback Facebook group that I was in. A lot of other women who were seeing these doctors in this practice, they would just express that they had to fight to push their going into labor to 41 weeks or 42 weeks. I will do what I know is right, but I'm not going to fight, you know, so like, don't want to argue. I'm not good with arguing. I'm not good with confrontation. So it was kind of like, I'm not fighting to get what I want out of this. So I had reached out to the Dula that I originally worked with, and then she recommended somebody else who was closer and we clicked really well. And she was also, both of them were like, you won't need to schedule a C-section if you don't want to. And I kind of got that in my head. So I did more research. found the VBAC link and I was like listening to bird stories. And then I just also forgot to mention when I had the C-section with Harper, like towards the end of the pregnancy, they saw, so I have the heart shaped uterus, the bicornidate uterus, but they saw the septum, but they didn't know for sure. in that pregnancy. And then when I went into labor and went to for the C-section, I had a doctor that I'd never met from the practice. Like he was just on call that night. And he was great. It was kind of like meant to be. He came in the next day to explain the shape of my uterus. Wow. So I never got a scan after to like confirm it on paper. But I had a C-section and I trust him. know, like, makes sense because whole pregnancy they're like, you know, shape of your uterus or not at the end they were asking and I had no idea because I never had the reason to get it checked out. because that makes it more likely to have breech babies, right? If you have the bicorn and uterus. So now going into the pregnancy with Hudson, I just know it was always like a concern to like, is he going to end up breech? if he is, like, what are my options? And thankfully, he was head down because I think if he was briefed, I don't know if I would have been ready. Yeah. Attempted be back with him either. But yeah, so we worked with this really good great doula. And I knew going into it, she had a vacation planned for when I was like my 39th week. I just assumed I'll either go late early or like I don't think. I think I assumed I was gonna go before that. So I like, it'll be fine. Whatever. I know you have a backup Dua. I met her a few times and she was great. Yeah. And then as we got closer and I passed, like when Harper came at 38 and five, I go, right, guess he's coming next week when she's on vacation. Yeah. And he did. Hi, this is a little shout out for myself today. If you didn't know, I've recently started offering doula services alongside mother blessings, antenatal debrief sessions and home birth planning sessions, all births at home in Melbourne, including with payment plans. You can find all the details on my website, www.birthingathome.com.au or check out my Instagram birthingathome.com.au. So you had the backup doula. And like, you know, we had already knew, like I knew what to expect if she wasn't there that week. And yeah, that was like just part of our agreement and everything. you have any like fears around having a V back, especially, you know, knowing that you'd had a breach, like, were there any like particular fears apart from, you know, Hudson just being possibly breach at some point? Yeah, just definitely in the beginning, I was like, what do I do if he's breach? Or like, is it you know, then I looked into the uterus and shape and seeing that it's likely to make breach babies, but I wasn't, I couldn't find the backstories with the bicornia uterus at this point to 2022. I guess I got pregnant at the end of 2021 going into 2022. Yeah. And yeah, and I couldn't I kept looking for stories. There's like very far and few and still with the bicornate uterus, there's like not that much out there. Like, or you have really have to dig. And I don't think I was digging enough, but like I found here and there, but there wasn't a lot. So I think if he was breached, I don't know what I would have done still. I don't know if I was ready. Yeah. Maybe Hudson knew that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he, we call him, like I said, he's the second child, Chaos. He's definitely like a little rebel too. Yeah. there you go. So, and I like find it funny that he was head down. Yeah. And that was the rebellious. I like he is that little rebel. was in utero as a little rebel and here he is. And you know, as he grows, it'll make him look strong guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Strong personality. Did Sean like have any like particular fears or comments or reservations about like having a V back or even about like the birth of Harper? He was very happy with the birth of Harper. Not, you know, it was just kind of like the safer route for him. And, know, especially being Breach, like all he knows is Breach is dead. He's a firefighter and he used to work in, so there's like the water company and the engine company and the engine company does EMS runs too here. where he worked, it's like one of the worst places in the city, or Brooklyn. they just, see a lot. I just, so I get where he's coming from, but at the same time, like, He'll tell me what his fears and I'm just the type of person where like I need to know the whole scenario. And he doesn't want to anything. So was kind of like, all right, well, you complain, you'll back. I don't want to know anything that could happen. That's scary. Just keep it to yourself kind of thing. And you know, and it works. Yeah. And then, know, his like his mind space is safe and mine is also, you know, protected. so he trusts you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and he, yeah, he definitely was like nervous and scared, but he trusts me. Yeah, so after that, with that practice, sorry, I keep getting off. That's all right. No, no, no. with the practice with all the doctors and the midwife, I ended up switching. My doula recommended this other doctor and her back. So I didn't know, like, I guess. this whole time. think she's asked me like for a circle of doulas and then I think maybe my backup doula like the backup doula ended up recommending the OB that I end up switching to. Basically saying like he's the best that you're going to get in the city for what you want out of your birth in a hospital setting. Okay. And so I switched. Well, I went to go meet him, spoke to him, my doula came with me and He's great. And Sean, he just works all over. So I went to lot of appointments by myself. So when I did, she was available and she came with me. you have to take Hopper along as well? Do you have family nearby? I don't think I took that appointment, my animals live right next door. So they helped a lot. Yeah. But yeah, so when I met with him, And he looked at my records and everything and he was like, you want me to go into labor by 39 weeks? He's like, I'll do 41 weeks and then we'll reevaluate and talk. He's like, jump right to a C-section either. But you have to go for 41 weeks and then we'll figure it out. And did he say like, that's so frustrating to me because... Like what's the rationale between 39 and now this doctor's saying 41? Like that's very confusing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like two different doctors and different scenarios and you know, now I'm not having to fight with him to push past 39 weeks. And he didn't say, well, schedule. said, we'll just reevaluate. Yeah. Yeah. So it was just, it was just refreshing to hear like. I don't have like a time limit. Like there's nothing that's gonna like go off if he doesn't come before this certain time. with Harper, so do you remember what that start of labor, you know, that sensation, like I guess in comparison to Hudson, what was that like? So I mean, mean, perhaps first, like, did you have like any signs of labor in the lead up to Hudson's birth? Like in the weeks before? I definitely had lot of Braxton Hicks. Okay, yeah. Just, it's like, for me, it just felt like a Charlie horse in my stomach. Okay. It's like, I am. And then it was cool because I want to ever happen with with Harper, I like could feel her head like you could see her head. Wow. Like poking through my belly. Yeah. And Hudson. When it happens, I like just knew he was head down because there's no head visible up top, but I didn't know like what. side of the uterus he was on was he on, well no I'm sorry, she was on my right side, he was on the left side. But her I never felt move and with Hudson I felt, every time he moved I would always be so excited to feel it because I didn't experience that with Harper. And yeah, so was cool to like, be able to feel movement after not being able to with Harper. Yeah, like the link to labor. So you had Braxton Hicks. yes. Braxton Hicks. And then with Hudson, I have like, I feel like very like minor contractions here and there, but. Yeah, like nothing like crazy. But the start of labor, my water broke in my sleep again, just like with her. Yeah. Broke. Her was at midnight. I he was at 1 a.m. that broke. Wow. But like 1 a.m. on the dot. She was midnight on the dot. And then I was like dead in my sleep. But I remember leading up to my... you know what? Actually, I put Harper to bed. and I went to the bathroom after and I lost my mucus plug. Okay. So that was like seven, eight o'clock. And I remember that was the week my Dua was on vacation. So I texted the backup Dua and I was just like, just FYI, I lost my mucus plug. Cause I read about it. I didn't know what it was. And then when I lost it, I was like, that's the mucus plug. I'd never seen anything like that in my life. Yeah. So I texted her and I was like crampy, but it wasn't anything. took a bath because I got with all my pregnancies, I get restless legs really bad. Okay. This last pregnancy, I started taking magnesium supplements. I just put it, I had droplets. I put my water in it was great because I didn't get it as bad. Wow. But yes, I texted her. I know it could mean nothing, but could mean something. I don't know, but because I'm 39 and he was 39 and two. Just letting you know, just so you get your rest, whatever will figure it out. And then just going back to the doctor that we switched to when I met him, he just said to have successful feedback, like unmedicated feedback, which is what I wanted. He said just lay her home as long as possible. Amazing. Yeah. said that. You took it seriously. Yeah. And that day, actually before I lost my mucus plug, I did get a cervical check from him because at this time I didn't, but I feel like because of the D-back, I wanted to know where I was at. I got a check. I think it was like almost two centimeters. And then I lost my mucus plug and then my water broke at 1 a.m. and then I... called my doula to let her know and she was like, hey, well, let me know when you want me to come over. And like, I don't know. told her, I was like, all right, I'll call you back in a little while. I'll figure it out. But, I pretty much would say I had contractions from when my water broke on. And like when I was trying to go to bed that night, my husband had a cat scan that day. Okay, I lost my mucus plug, I went down and I was like, let's go to bed. In case anything happens to me because he wasn't feeling good from the die from yeah, that's like he was out of it. And that was kind of like the last thing to that like we want the baby to wait to for him to get that done. And he waited and then came right after. So I just like let's go to bed. He was like, are you having contractions? I like, no. like, I know you don't want to hear it. said something came out and I was like, I don't want to explain it you because I don't want to gross you out. But I was like, he's coming. Yeah. So we did. We got ready. Went to bed. He knocked right out. I couldn't sleep because he was moving like so much. Well, like he moved all throughout the whole pregnancy. But I remember like that night I couldn't go to sleep because he was just all over the place. Yeah. And, and like both times with the water breaking, was like, was in my sleep, but I could like feel it like pop, like the balloon, like inside my body. which is really cool. And then water broke and went downstairs. I just put on like the period undies that I had, called the Dua. I didn't know if I want her to come here or not. And then I, my friend had like, sent me a Snapchat or something. It was like past 1 a.m. I forget what time it was, probably like an hour after my water broke because I tried to lay on the couch to go back to sleep and I was just too excited and nervous at the same time because I didn't know what vaginal birth would be like either. So my friend was up so I was like, let's talk. I like, I'm having contractions but like I'm able to breathe and talk through them so. We ended up being on the phone for like two hours. Wow. I threw up. just water. I like ran to the bathroom and while we're on the phone to throw up and I was fine. Which I didn't know that was a thing that could happen in labor. Yeah. And then it kind of just got to a point where they were getting a little closer but they were like, I guess they were like 10 minutes apart maybe. Yeah. I don't know if that's close or far because I don't really. I know they're different for all these Yeah, guess it also has to do with how long the contraction lasts for. Yeah, the whole time they were never longer than a minute. Yeah. like 45 seconds to a minute long. Yeah, 10 minutes is still like... Yeah, I guess if they're consistently coming at 10 minutes, that's one thing, but then 10 minutes otherwise is probably still a bit... not far apart, but like it's not like super close together. Yeah. I forget it was, it was like five, I think it was five minutes. It might've been five minutes apart. Cause I remember I was like, should we go like, should I call my do like, what do I? Yeah. and was Harper, was Harper being going to be cared for by your in-laws? Yes. Cause then at this point we were planning to go to the hospital. and I think finally I just got off the phone with my friend. I'm like, I'm just going to call Malphie, the Dua, and like, I'm just going to have her come over and we'll figure out from there. So I called her. She got here maybe like an hour after I called her. And then I didn't wake Sean up. think our deal was that I wouldn't wake him up until I was like ready to go. you know, I like, I just wanted to be by myself for a while and not like him panicking. Yeah. daughter just walking in. That's alright. You want to say hi? so I just didn't want, yeah, I didn't want him to panic. Hi Hatha. You're right, you're tired? So, yeah, so, but I came up because we didn't have the car seat in the car yet for the hospital. I was like, just say no, I'm in labor, but we're not ready to go. telling you the list of things that we need to get done before we go to the hospital. And I was like, mom, he's coming over. So I don't want you to like wake up and be alarmed that she's here. he did wake up right away, which is great. I think he took up like 10, 20 minutes, like went back to sleep for 10, 20 minutes. And then came down, started getting crazy because it was in our attic. It's just like I... And my hospital bag wasn't packed. I just had piles of things throughout the house. But like I meant, I'm not mute or organized. That's just like how I organize in my head. So yeah, so then I went to go get him and he came down and he... Malki got him. Yeah, go ahead. Malki came over and... I got in my bathtub for a little bit. Harper was still sleeping throughout this whole thing. And then when she started to wake up, I think she wasn't up yet. And I remember feeling like, can't wait till she wakes up so that she can like kind of be a part of this. Yeah. And she started to wake up. And then my contractions got like, I was like falling to my knees. They're still five minutes apart, but when they came, was like falling to my knees. so, and it was just like, I was fine. Sean went to go get her out of her room and change her diaper, brought her into our room, which is only like five feet away from our room. And I looked at him and I was like, you got to take her to your parents now. We're going to the hospital. he's like, wait, really? Like, weren't you just fine like two minutes ago? Yeah. That's the thing about contractions as well, like the timing, it doesn't, it doesn't really mean a whole lot because yeah, it can change just like that. Yeah. Yeah. so he was just like, wait, what? And you know, I gave her a kiss and then he ended up bringing her next door. then he brought her next door and I remember looking at my door at two before this happened. I think maybe he came back and then I had like the poop feeling. Yeah. Wow. And I was like, we have to go to bathroom. And I end up like pooping in the toilet a little bit. Okay, yeah. But it was just like, I don't know, like I feel like there's like the poop feeling that you like regular poop feeling and then there's like before the baby's gonna have like it's definitely a little different feeling. Yeah. Like you just know. So I, yeah, so I. like we have to go and then she just looked at me in the eyes she was like would you be comfortable in the hospital right now or not or like or not like just like to make sure that I was ready yeah and I I think she didn't think I was as far along as I felt either just because of the way things changed so fast and everything and I was like you know we have to go. Yeah right. It took us like 40 minutes to get downstairs because I just, I was so scared of every time it was coming. didn't want to fall down the stairs and everything. So finally we got downstairs, he brought the car out in front of the house, got everything in the car and we go. And then they were still coming, but they were like, it wasn't a stand in the car. How long was it to the hospital? Like how long was it going to take? 40 minutes. Wow. Yeah, to go like we have a hospital close to here, but it's not really good hospital. Okay, sure. Yeah. So to go to like a decent hospital for us, like all the good ones are 40 minutes away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 50 minutes with traffic probably. Yeah. And it was a Wednesday morning in the summer and it was beautiful day. Yeah, yeah. So I think it was just mostly work traffic that we were hitting, but it wasn't, I think it still took like 40, 42 minutes. Yeah. And so I think he just noticed my temperament was a little bit like lighter and everything. So he's like, OK, I have time. Like I was definitely more at ease than when I was at home. Yeah. And I forget like what point we're in the car and then Malfi. I was I had like hemorrhoids here and there. huh. Throughout that pregnancy which I didn't have with Harper and they like freaked me out and then I didn't know what they were still even like when I was in labor So at one point she was like feel tell like can you feel ahead and I was too afraid to feel myself I was like you tell me yeah Touch me it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I was just like even though I was Set on having a V back like I think because I didn't know what a bad birth would be like I was too afraid to like know if he's coming and like this whole time too like I'm worried about Shawn. Yeah. So even though I'm in labor like I was worried about him. Yeah. And him not passing out. Yeah. Hold on let me just see if he needs help. what's he saying? No you're gonna sleep on your bed. You can come say hi. Come here. Hi Hudson. This is Hudson. Is it bedtime? That sounds very relaxing. Hello. Yeah, you can fall asleep here. I'll just put you in your bed though. You want to lie down? And you can listen to mama and me. you got a dinosaur. What? What kind of dinosaur is it? is it? Green. Green? Yeah. Is it a tea bag? Yeah. What? That's very cool. So you were trying to get your doula to see if that was a head. Yeah. And rewind back to the house real quick when I had the poop. I'm pretty sure he was crowning at the house. Wow. I didn't check. I know she also had asked me to check at home like after I pooped and cleaned up and everything but I was too afraid. yeah, yeah. I was like, I just like put my hand on I was like, no, I don't feel anything. But I didn't really feel for anything. And yeah, so then we're in the car, same thing. She's like, check to see if you feel ahead. And I was like, you check me. And I also forgot that when I called her, she had just been getting over cold that week. So there was another backup Dola. my goodness. case I didn't want her to be around. Sure. Yeah. But I was just like, it's okay. You're just not going to touch the baby. So that's also why I think she was like backing off when I asked her to check. But then finally in the car, she was like, take your pants off. And he flew out. Yeah. So yeah. So that's also why she was just like you know, respecting what I had asked her to do. But I was like, No, but you need to be here. I know you're getting over it. And like she was sure that it was past like, being contagious or whatever. And I was like, No, I just need you here. Yeah. Yeah. On the other doula, I'm friends with her now, too. We haven't like met to face to face, but we chat a lot. Yeah. And so it was like, why? Like, they're all great. Yeah. But I was just more comfortable with somebody I had met. Yeah. So yeah, so it was just funny. She was just like, all right, take your pants off. Like, let's see. then like within minutes he flew out in the car. Wow. And how far away? my gosh. Yeah. And so what happened? So were you like still driving or did Sean pull over? He just drove, you know, because we're only a block away. So he just, you know, the whole car ride to. Malki was recording cause I said, get all the footage you can. but also use one of our phones to call the hospital to let them know we're on our way. And then when he was born, like called them to let them know, like to have the nurses outside ready to take us in. so she was doing all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. goodness. Yeah. And, yeah, so he just kept driving and Even though that was the closest hospital, it's just, he knows from the firefighter world that in case of emergency, if you call 911, they're not gonna take you where you wanna go. I think even though we were right there, he wasn't gonna, it would have just been quicker to get there rather than wait. But same thing, if we were a little bit further, think he would have, if everything was fine, we probably would have still just made our way. There's certain things that they won't take you to the hospital that you want to, even though he's a fireman, he can be like, well, we want to go here. They can't do that. They can't do any favors and have take you to the closest hospital. And just where we are, the two closest hospitals aren't the greatest. What was that moment like that you just give birth in a car? Do you remember what was going through your mind? that I did it. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. A couple, maybe like a week before, a few days before too, my friend has like this pendulum necklace that like you say yes or no, and it'll like go side to side or circle. I forgot which was which, but I remember I texted her one night cause I think I'd passed like the point I was pregnant with Harper, like when my water broke. And I was like, can you ask it like, am I gonna have a VBAC? And it said no. what? And so I'm like, I don't know why I did that to myself. Yeah. You know, I was like, I know. I was like, just tell me what it says. I want to know. Like, I just wanted to see. And it said no. And I was like, so I'm going to have C-section. So at one point, too, I was like, do I just schedule a C-section? Wow, based on the... But I didn't say it out loud to anyone. I kind of just sat on it. And then I was like, no, I'm going to do this. Like, why am I listening to a pendulum? Yeah. But so it was good. Yeah. So it was nice. Like also in my head, like in that moment I was like, the pendulum was wrong. Don't listen to the pendulum. It's not always right. my goodness. And so, yeah, like what the heck? What are, like, yeah, cause like home birth, at least in Australia, home birth is like pretty. I guess you could say rare, like only like 0.5 % of births are at home. like car births, yeah, like births in like transit, like I don't know what the stats are, but I would say that they're rarer than home births. Yeah. But yeah, It's funny too, I had listened to some VBACs and how, or I think also just birth stories in general that I was listening to. And how they almost didn't make it to the hospital or they made it to the lobby. Yeah, and I don't I don't like I have a really like I My gut is really like spot-on. So I usually just you know, go by my gut. Yeah so like I like I don't know if I manifested it to you or if like I Just knew that was gonna happen. He's like I remember like every time I listened to those stories to him like I wonder if that could be me. Like I just like felt connected to it. I don't know if that sounds weird or not, but like something, I feel like something in me knew, but I never said it out loud either because I was just like, do I want that? don't know. But even like, you know, in that rebellious kind of thought about Hudson, like, you know, it's pretty rebellious. Like you were like, okay, I'm going to be having this hospital birth. I'm to have a V-Bag. And then he was like, nope, we're not going there. Yeah. And it's like his personality. Like, it's great. Yeah. But yeah, no, it was just great. The hormones and everything. was like, wow, I did that. Yeah. Where did you, so you're still connected. Like, did you still stay like connected like how long until the placenta was born? Like what happened with that? So that I was still he's still connected. I was able to cut the cord myself in the car. So yeah, guess I don't like I don't think it was that long, like definitely not as long as I would have liked to do. my doula made sure that I was able to cut the cord myself. Which is cool because Sean doesn't do body fluids like you said, with Harbor he didn't cut hers. So I was like, all right, if you're not going do it, I'm going to do it. I was able to do Hudson's and then he ended up doing the rest of Hudson's in the hospital because I feel like at this point he's like, I've seen it all and made it through this. So I could do anything now. So it was cool because it was just like, I don't know when he told me, I like, you cut the cord? I didn't realize that he did. And he didn't pass out. Yeah. He struggled with every baby. mean, being in the same room as a C-section, like I've seen C-sections and I would have thought like, Sean, that's amazing. Yeah. well, he also like, he had to walk in like covering. They with the Harper too, were supposed they were going to tell me when they started. And they didn't. But like, I'm happy that they didn't. I was so scared. I never gotten a surgery done. thought so. I was terrified. And then on top of that, I was getting the shakes from the spinal. Of course. Yeah. So it was just like I was terrified. Yeah. And then he just didn't want to anything. Yeah. Yeah. He like walked. I remember him walking to the OR. And then I'm like waiting for them to tell me that when they were going to start and they never told me. that's good, it's better off that I didn't know. But yeah, so now then with Hudson, he definitely seemed more body-fitting than stuff. He was fine, he was great. Holy moly, my goodness. And so how, how long do you say that Hudson's labor was? I say from like the time my water broke from 1am to he was born at 9.10. Yeah. It was like eight hours. Yeah. Okay. That's still a pretty like, you know, average, I think kind of time, especially second time labor. Yeah. Wow. and so, so Harper and Hudson. were pretty relatively close together. so what's the gap then between, how old was Hudson when you decided to have Holden? So Hudson was just turned one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So he had just turned one. So we weren't even trying, like Sean was kind of done having kids. It was kind of like the third would be a discussion in a few years. But I was. I have pretty regular cycles and then I had like one weird period, that August, last August I guess. didn't have my period for like six weeks but I was always like exactly four weeks on the dot. So was very late and like same thing, I'm not on birth control, we just pull out. And then we try not to do it around my ovulation. Yeah, so then that period was off. And then I knew exactly when I ovulated, just not like when I was pregnant. But we only got into it like one time that whole cycle. Yeah, well. It was like two days before my ovulation. which like we never had that happen with Harper or Hudson. And I know I was like, I'm like, and I think I ovulated like earlier than I was supposed to. Yeah, like not like this, like the unusual. Yeah. So my periods were a little off. So yeah, so was kind of like a freak accident. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. And so after, so you've had, you know, that one year, I guess, to think about like, you know, in a few years, if we have another baby, what kind of you know, what would you plan? Was it then that you thought, I could actually have a home birth? Like, did you feel confident that that would be an option for you or how did that come up? Yeah, as soon as I knew I was pregnant, I was like, we're doing this at Yeah, amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes so much sense. You've just proved to yourself, like, how, how easily you could have had Hudson at home. Yeah. Yeah. And like the way he came like even though it was like eight hours, I feel like I did go from like Nothing like zero to 100. Yeah. Yeah, like with me with my labor. Yeah and then I feel like With his labor too, like I Feel like I was holding him in like I feel like he would have came at home if I let it happen. Yeah, let go. Yeah. Yeah but because I was so concerned about my husband the whole time. And you know, didn't affect like I, it's fine. Like I'm not like, it's like not traumatized. I'm not, I don't know if that's the right word, but I don't regret thinking about my husband the whole time. Like we just, we know how we work. And he was letting me do my thing. And even though he was letting me do my thing, I was still worried for him because I didn't want him to pass out or anything. But I feel like this time around, I was like, know you're not going to be okay with this. We're doing this at home. Yeah. Yeah. And was not as concerned because now that I know that he's seen it all and he didn't pass out. Yeah. Not that I want to test it and make him pass out, but I was like, we're going to make this work out. Yeah. Yeah. And then his biggest thing is just if we had to transfer or call 911, he has like the hospitals nearby. Sure. And they won't, like I said, even whether you're driving or whatever, like at home, like they're not going to take you where you want to go. Yeah. So was there like, is it expensive? Like what does it cost to have a home birth where you are? So I don't know, I was planning a free birth. Yeah, well, this time around. Yeah. You know, I called my doula like, so we're pregnant again. Obviously, I want you back. Yeah, yeah. this was like the bat. So my the doula we originally hired had a baby last year. And then I like called the well, I'm friends with all of them now. But I called Malky back and like had another baby. I want you to be here. I want to do a free birth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was planning to go that route. How did you come up with free birth? had you like heard stories about the free birth or? I was listening to the free birth society even when before I got pregnant again. Yeah. So was like, all right, well, if we get pregnant again, I'm doing a free birth. I basically did it in my car. Yeah. I mean, yeah. rewind back to Hudson is that after we got in the hospital, I did get like toxins of pitocin, but I didn't know about that for the placenta. So this time around I was like, I don't want anything, like no medication at all. And I did have to get stitches. I had like a second degree tear with him. It wasn't terrible. mean, it definitely, it hurt. I remember recovering, I couldn't sit on the floor. It was a lot. I bled for almost 12 weeks, I think, after, which was a really long time. After a C-section, I only bled for two weeks and then I was done. So that was hard. And then, yeah, so then I had the pitocin to get the placenta out and I didn't know about all of that. That's just something I didn't... read and the doctor was like, we usually do this. And it was just routine. was like, all right, go ahead. I got my own medication feedback. It was fine. I don't regret it. But I just was like, I'm not going to do this again for the next one. And he was already disconnected. So then with Hudson, it's planning free birth. I was just talking to my dual the whole time and she had done Breach Without Borders training. Amazing. So I was like, are you comfortable with the free birth and helping me if the baby's breached? And she's like, yeah, absolutely. So we had conversations on what could go wrong and just like very open conversations with like, which I think is important. Like if you're going to commit to something free birth, like you have to take responsibility. Yeah. for whatever happened. So we were doing that and pregnancy was great. And then I think around 28 or 30 weeks he was breached. I went back to, and I knew before like seeing the scan that he was, I could just feel his head. And I was just so familiar from Harper, but he also moved around a lot. So I was like, maybe hopefully. Yeah, okay. Yeah, like, she didn't move at all. So he never flipped. I went to like the place that I got scanned for Hudson. I went to the same back to the same doctors. They're great. There's a female OB that he brought on board when I was pregnant with Hudson, but she I forget she just had the baby or she came on. But then I had Hudson and then she had a baby. Yeah. so I never met her until this pregnancy and most of my visits were with her because he got really booked up really fast within the last few years and she was amazing. we just like same thing, just had open conversations and I, like I said, I don't, I'm not good with, like just confrontation or like I'll stick up for myself, but I don't want to have to fight or like. And I don't want to be told you need to do this or you need to do that. So they're just really good with that there. And they just tell you how it is, you know, she explained the hospital because I'd always be like, what's the baby's breach? What's the baby's breach? Like that's just always on my mind now whenever like the last two pregnancies. for and like when I did see the original OB there, same, you know, he's also very easy to talk hear about it and same thing basically told me that the only way I could deliver breach in the hospital is if you were having twins and twin B was breach. I was like, not what I want to hear. And, you know, I just want to like, at least know, like if I change my mind and wanted to go to hospital, you know, I have you guys. you know, the female one, female B kept telling me to like. basically told me that I could show up to the hospital in labor with breach and deny the c-section, but like I'm not going to be respected by the nurses and everything because now I'm putting them in a bad position and not because they want to it's just they're not allowed to. So now like I'm putting them in a bad position and I like get what she's saying, but I don't want to be in that position. that's pretty much what she was telling me. And just throughout the whole pregnancy, like recommended to get a midwife. But in New York, it's kind of like hard to find good midwives too. And especially, yeah, probably with the breach training as well. Yes. Because here in Australia, yeah, if you. Yeah, mean, mid-private midwives that attend home births often. will support like a breach at home if it's sort of like not known like, you know, if it just happens to happen in labor, I've, you know, heard, you know, like, they're not gonna like be like, it's a breach runaway kind of thing. certainly if like you've done scans and the baby's being breached, that would be considered like high risk. Yeah, even though it's just a variation and it's, yeah, they just need the skills. But if you've not got the skills, like the system needed. Yeah. It's yeah. And so yeah, I mean, women choose free birth. Well, is it a choice if they can't access midwife? Like if they want midwifery care, but then babies breed and then the midwife can't support them, then they are kind of forced into, you know, taking that radical responsibility and birthing without support because yeah, that's the only way otherwise they'll be able to have a vaginal or a physiological breech baby at home. Yeah. So it's very tricky. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I didn't even think about that with the free birth option because like part of me wanted to have midwives, I can like one, think, but we, I think When we first started looking, a lot of them were already booked up too. ones that my Dueler recommended. I just told her, I'm like, just recommend people to me. And some other ones that she recommended. Either just didn't get back to me or whatever. Life happens. So it wasn't working out. I was almost four, it was like two days before the due date. and my husband were in bed and he just knows my plans and it's just like, what you gotta do. I don't wanna hear anything scary, just I trust that you're gonna do the right thing. And I am very realistic. and then like I said, just had a lot of conversations with Ardula just about what could go wrong and what the plan is if it does. Were you planning to have Harper and Hudson present? Yes. Until I couldn't, unless they got in the way. was kind of like we were just going with the flow, like I wanted them to be here. And so two days before my due date, we were going to bed and Sean's like, so who's coming if when you go into labor? And this woman I babysat four years ago. So she had two free births at home. I babysat her first baby, then she had a second baby shortly after and then two free births like within like the last two or three years. So I connected with her again and was talking to her throughout the pregnancy to just like asking questions because like if you have free birth, like what do I need at the house, you know, or like in case of emergency that we can handle. Like what do I need to have on hand? My whole dining room table was filled with just like stuff to have a free birth at home that like midwives would typically have. So it was just a lot of like, what do I need here and there and just having a lot of conversations with her too. I'm like kind of like what to expect if this or that happens. And she gave me... with Chuck Pad, which is like a bunch of stuff that you would need here. Yeah. And I guess she kind of following her on Instagram, I was like, should try for a free birth or not. Yeah. So two days before my due date, Sean is asking who is going to be here. And I explained like my friend Kelly, who I babysat for and Malki. Yeah. And Malki had a friend who like offered to be here like if we needed help with the baby or anything or myself just as backup. But she, you know, so I told him that too, just also to help him put him at ease. And he was like, wait, no midwives? What did you the sleeper was? I'm like, I keep saying we're doing a free birth and he had no idea that that didn't count. So it was funny because I'm about to go to sleep so I grabbed my phone. I put my phone down for the day and I grabbed it and I was like, texted Maki and I'm like, I guess we need midwives for Sean. And she was on it though. She was on it the next morning. She called me. One of the midwives that we were looking into in the beginning who were booked up happened to free up and trusted. They don't like, you know, I feel like many midwives don't like to take on late patients for hemorrhage, but somehow with them, thankfully it felt right. Yeah. they took me on. And that was Wednesday night. Spoke with them on the phone Thursday morning and Thursday afternoon there at the house getting all of our paperwork and check up and everything. Yeah. And I was still seeing our OB up until actually, think I, maybe it's been like, it was like four weeks since my last visit with OB. And then I was gonna go if I was comfortable. Not comfortable, but just if I had time with two kids on top of that. But I ended up not going because there was just too much going on, guess. is broken nipple. So, and it was just, I think I was gonna call and go the next, like all my due day if I didn't go into labor yet. But then it worked out. I didn't have to go anywhere. The midwives came over, which is really nice. They're like, you would have had this your whole pregnancy if you were able to hire us. you know, just like joking around. But we're like, you're fucked up. And I didn't know with Harper, I had emailed them. They had my email from when I emailed them just looking around for home birth midwives in the very beginning of my pregnancy. So that was pretty cool. Yeah, that is very cool because yeah, what experiences you've had, like had had since like that initial reach out and like how, yeah, different things, like how your, yeah, your path would have been so much different, perhaps. Yeah. Who knows? It was like a full circle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they were like experienced. and they did the briefs about borders training. it worked out. And then, yeah, so then we ended up hiring them the day before my due date. What the heck, that's wild. Wow. I do not think that in Australia you would find any midwife, any registered midwife, because it's technically... illegal to be unregistered and practice as a midwife in all of Australia. But I still don't. Yeah, like you would not. Like that is so lucky. Yeah, that's what I mean. That's what my like everybody says. I don't know what happened. It worked out. Yeah. Somebody was looking out after us. Yeah. And you know, and I'm glad Sean had no idea what the pre-birth was. you know, and it didn't work out when we were originally looking for midwives. Yeah. So in my head, I was like, All right, we're doing a free birth. haven't like, like you said, I have no other choice. Yeah. Like unless I want to c-section. Yeah. And like, because I'm not gonna fight and put anyone else or myself in like a messy situation in the hospital either. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, so they were planning to come back. Sunday for a checkup if I didn't go into labor. then I did go into labor on Sunday. it was for I was 42. I passed my due date, which was really cool. also throughout this whole pregnancy was like, in case it's the last one, I kind of hope I make it to my due date because I never have. And I like being pregnant. I had a really good pregnancy. yeah. So I like. being pregnant and was hoping to make it to my due date. And it was like actually two days late, which was nice. Did your waters break again? like a sign of labor? Yes, but not the same way. Like not the full pop and gush. It was just trickling. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I forget. I think I got up to pee or something. And this time it was 5 a.m. So it was cool that it wasn't like midnight. Yeah. I did go to sleep and then I had, you know, I had almost a full night's that's brilliant. Yeah. Did you have any concerns around or had you thought about laboring during the day, especially because it would have been like summer for you guys? Yeah. I didn't. kind of, I think because it went the same way twice, I was expecting it to be the same the third time around. But it wasn't and it was fun. I just like, I have morning babies. So was like, well, I have a morning baby or not. You know, it's kind of like cool. They're, it's all different. They're all different every time. But yeah, so 5am my water started trickling. I think I got up to pee and I was just like different. Yeah. And then it was just weak. I remember I put my underwear back on and I was just like leaking still and I was like, I guess my water is breaking. I like called my doula. I was like, Maki is like, come over. She like you want me to come now or you want to wait? I no, just come now just in case. I had I forget what her Instagram handle is, but she had five, I forget she had four or five, I forget how many kids she had. Okay. Her first baby was head down and I found her on a podcast and I went to go find her Instagram. And then she had four or five, like whatever it was, the rest of her babies were all brief. Yeah. And where I forget what state she was in, but the doctor was willing to do a vaginal breach birth. And she kept having breech-break, she has a heart-shaped uterus also. And from her stories, her labor got faster and faster and faster. So I think then once I heard that, I was like, okay, so this is gonna be fast. And now I'm confident, we're gonna do this breech-fedinal breath, it's gonna be another V-back, it's gonna be quick. Painful and quick, which is fine. I have a high pain tolerance, so I was like, I would rather it be quick anyway. If I had a choice. So then, yes, a water trickle called Maki is like, just come over just in case anything like switches fast and like no knowing this other girls stories. Like, it sounds like it might go fast. And yeah, so she came over. didn't wake Sean up again, but I couldn't go back to sleep because now I'm like, okay, he's coming, he's coming, this is the day. I was just like too excited. The kids were sleeping and Malki came over and then I think I went up before she got here just saying like my water's trickling, Malki's coming over. You don't have to, I think I told him to just stay asleep and go back to sleep and he did. And then I did when Malky came over I did I ate because I was starving And then I tried to go back to sleep and I think I did I thought maybe for like Another hour. Yeah And then and I texted the midwives because I think they were supposed to come at noon and I said, can you come over at eight instead? I think they gave me the option of eight or noon. And then I was just like, my water's trickling. Just come over for a checkup in case. And like in case it happens to be good timing for baby to come. So they came over at eight for a checkup. Nothing was really happening. Like I was crampy, but I wouldn't say contractions yet. So I went back to sleep after that for. maybe an hour I think I was just too excited that he was coming. also like I was excited and like nervous of the unknown. not in the same way like I was with Hudson and I feel like I was more like concerned for my husband with Hudson. This time it was just all about me. So then I came back down. I was gonna maybe eat again, because I remember to the day like going into that night that my water broke with him, I had so many carbs that day. like not purposely, like I don't feel like I was craving it, but it was just, I was hungry. And then like my options wherever I was, if I want to go get something like takeout was carbs, like a place that only made grilled cheese on bagels and like. I like a bagel, but bagels are a lot. I don't like them every day or for grilled cheese. But I was so hungry, so was like, we're just going to make grilled cheese on the bagel. And then we had burgers with the bun and I think it's pasta for laundry. It was just a lot. But then when I went to labor with Hudson, I didn't need to feel like I was fueled. I ate nothing leading up to his birth. And then... withholding. I remember waking up and I was starving. I like had eggs and toast and then I was good until he came. But yeah, so then he came or my water broke, trickled, ate, went back to sleep after the midwives came and they're like, all right, so just call us when things start. happen when you're ready. they left. So they left, but they're only 15 minutes away. They're not far like the hospital. So I had gotten groceries delivered that morning just to have fruit and snacks for anybody and the kids if they needed in case it was long or whatever. And I was washing the and everything, making all the kids breakfast, just cleaning and getting ready. And then I was like having contractions, but it wasn't, they weren't bad. Like it wasn't, I wasn't timing them either. Maybe I was just looking at the clock. Maybe they were five minutes apart. It was like, it was the same, but not bad. And then I just got to one point where like one, I just had to like pause and like, like lean on something like bent over for a moment. And then it was fun. Like it wasn't really, like I said, like, like dropping to my knees. then I was like, and I had a birth cool. So I wanted to set it up in our room. So Sean and Mock, we went to like go try to set it up. And we didn't have the right fittings for it or something. So I called my friend, Kelly. the free brother to see if she had anything and she ended up with her four boys dropping off like the thing that we needed and and she was like let me know when I like things progress like my husband's coming home from work and then I'll come over and And I came back in another contraction and my mom is like should I call midwives? I was like I Don't know like should we like I just wasn't sure because it was like fine Yeah, like I didn't feel like it was time yet. Yeah But I was like I just like just do it guess that's fine they can hang out or whatever and so she called them and we started making our way up to go fill the tub upstairs and this As soon as I got upstairs, I was falling to my knees. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was pooping myself. Yeah, yeah. I couldn't control it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the kids were still here. And in the background, you just hear Harper talking to Sean. Mama, dada, I smell something. Did mama poop? It just so innocent. I like that. I do wish we had somebody recording. It was just so funny. I would love to relive that moment because I'm just in pain. I wouldn't say pain, but full on labor. He's about to be here and you just hear her. I'm breathing through the contractions and laughing at the same time. Then Hudson's trying to get in my face. He just got to be a little bit too much. And then I was proving myself to take him next door to my mom and dad and like he didn't think that the baby would be born while he was like he was gone less than five minutes. And I remember like just yelling like my body's pushing like I wasn't even pushing my body was just doing it and I didn't feel that with Hudson either. Yeah, kind of he flew out. What do they call it? The... fetal ejection reflex? Yeah. I feel like that was Hudson and this one, maybe it was the same, but I felt my body pushing. Yeah. Like I never felt the pushing sensation with Hudson and this time it was like, no, he's pushing. And yeah, so he went to go bring them next door and we couldn't get water in the pool. Then we tried to get water in my bathtub. just I wanted to be in the water because then I just started feeling like, you know, the back, like it's warm water in my back. So then I was like, all right, we'll just go in the shower. Then I'll just turn the shower on and let the water hit my back while it's going on. because I still felt like it could be like he'll be here in five minutes or he'll be here in two hours. Even though like I felt the pushing, like, I don't know, of stories. pushing for how long, know, hours or not at all. And from the time we called the midwives to when he was born, was 11 minutes. they didn't even make it my gosh, it technically was a freebie. Yeah. What? Yeah. my goodness. And so that was while Sean was also next door. With the kids. Like dropping him off. He literally just was like, and his mom knew I was in labor. So she saw the doula come and everything. she's like the whole time, like, let me know if you need me or whatever. So he, or like, I'm here whenever you need to drop the kids off. So he dropped them off and ran back and then hurt him crying. And I was back in bed. I was on my bathroom floor because I was trying to get to the shower and I just couldn't move anywhere else. So I was like on four, on all fours in the bathroom. Wow. And so was Holden, like what kind of breach was he? Like was he, He was frank breach. Frank breach. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he was butt down, head and feet up. Yeah. came out one slid right Yeah. Wow. came out, it was just like textbook. Yeah. I mean, you saw it. Yeah. was like textbook. perfect for Frank Breach. Yeah, yeah. Like hands off. Dula was just hitting the pressure points on the back of that. needed like the warm water for that I didn't Wow. So in the end it was just you and your Dula because your friend had already left with her sons. Yes, she just came to drop off what we needed and then she was going to come back. Yeah. You know like ass. I just like whenever come over when your husband gets here and then I texted him like the baby. Don't worry. my goodness. what was the like birth of the placenta like withholding then? I feel like it came like maybe like a half hour later. yeah, we just went to bed. We did skin to skin. Sean came back, came into bed with us and then... And so the kids stayed next door? Yeah, the kids stayed next door for a few hours and then we... way down. Look at that. Look that. It's called a speaker. Yeah, they were next door. And then we... You can go to bed if you want. You're very tired. Yeah, would say the placenta, maybe it could have been an hour. I don't really remember how long, but it came out on its own. So it was just nice. I didn't have to force it. He was still on it when I came out. There were pictures that I wanted to get with him on it. So it's cool. It's currently in my freezer. That's brilliant. Did you get to take Hudson's? Yeah, so with Hudson and Harper, I got them encapsulated. cool. Harper's, feel like I took all of them. And then Hudson, I took some, but I still have some. then this time around, because I feel like, I didn't really take Hudson's. Yeah. I like, I'll just keep it. And then maybe like fairy one day. Yeah. Holy moly. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So when we called the midwives. to when he was here is 11 minutes. Cause I remember like after I was like, wait, how long was that? That they didn't make it here on time. But we were on FaceTime with them too. Cause Malki was like, no, he's coming. They're not making it. And then they were 15 minutes away. But yeah. And then he came on FaceTime for that. Wow. my goodness. Wow. And so if you, you know, in the future, if another baby ever like did happen, would you have like a free birth again, like without midwives? Or would, do you think you Sean would like need that mid? Because I mean, you, you essentially had two free births. Yes. So this with Holden, I also tore. So they stitched me up right in my bed. Amazing. and it wasn't, but it wasn't as severe as Hudson's and basically they just said that, they would let it go, but it was like right at the point where it was like a little bit too much for them to feel comfortable just letting it heal on its own. and you know, I told them, I want to be realistic. said, if you don't think it needs to be stitched, don't stitch it. but if you truly believe I should get stitched, then you know, we'll do it. That's what we hired them for. Yeah, yeah. I also believe that some women find especially if they've got children already like to have like because healing works so much better when you're able to rest and whatever but when you've got other little kids running about that you're you know, you're usually able to like rest as much as you otherwise could so it can affect the healing. So I mean, yeah, but that's that's individualized care, right? Like that's You knew what your options were and yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, so I got the stitches and it was way better than after Hudson too. I don't know if this is true or not, but I feel like because of my uterus, it needs to birth-breach babies. just healing was so much better. Like I was able to sit on the floor. remember like sitting on the floor right after Holden and like being scared because I was so like traumatized from how much pain I was in after Hudson. And I remember people asking like, if recovery was easier after Hudson than the C-section and even though they're both totally different recoveries, would, they were the same. Like they were the same. I can't think of what I'm trying to say, but they're like the same for different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where like this time with Holden, it was definitely better than the C-section. Yeah, yeah, And then my V-back with Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess perhaps also like the position that you may or like the restriction of movement that you possibly had in the car with Hudson could have also like maybe contributed. Yeah. And Yeah, I always thought things like that too because I was able to be fully on all fours at home for a whole month and it was great. Yeah, Hudson, was definitely a painful recovery. I didn't rest the way I should have after him. I didn't know. I didn't know about understanding the first 40 days and all of that. So this time I really like, I didn't do 40 days, but I did like two days in bed. And then I started to move around and actually got to a point where I was like sore from not doing anything. So I actually had to like do like up dog stretches to stretch my core. Cause I was like, my doula came over a few days later and I was like, I'm really sore. And then she was stretching my body out and I was like, she's like, you need to move around a little bit. Like, so not everybody can or should. to like, should move around a little bit because you're sore. And I wasn't sore anymore after stretching. well, like light stretch is not extreme. But yeah, was like, just so sore. Like my just like muscles and yeah, everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was just from not enough moving around. Which is funny. So like this time, I didn't have to rest as much as I should have after Hudson. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But each one's different, Like, yeah. Yeah. Holy moly. The three H's. There you go. The three H's. That's brilliant. Thank you so, so much for sharing your amazing stories. Is there anything that you feel like we missed or anything that you else you wanted to say? Not like it's, I mean, just, you know, if you want the birds of your dreams, just do your research. you know, do what you feel comfortable with. Yeah. And yeah, like I like not everybody can do a home birth and not that not because they can't or do like, just think at the end of the day, it depends on like, your knowledge and your comfortability. And yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And how you are able to recognize how you need to work the system for yourself. And if if there is like ability to work the system, because sometimes The system's pretty hard to maneuver in. Yeah, it really is. It's a crazy world. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me.