First time mum, preparing for homebirth and motherhood || Asa's birth of Zoe at home (Northern Territory)

Episode 49 and the first Northern Territory episode is shared by Asa, a first time mum who shares her beautiful experience with the birth of her daughter Zoe. 

What is also special about her story is that with the Defense Force, she was able to claim her entire homebirth back on her private insurance - not without a fight of course! She also shares her preparation for birth and motherhood, how her doula supported her and about her transfer to hospital for retained membranes after the birth of Zoe’s placenta. 

Connect with me, Elsie, the host :)

www.birthingathome.com.au

@birthingathome_apodcast

birthingathome.apodcast@gmail.com

Resources: 

• Pregnancy Mental Health https://panda.org.au/articles/mental-health-and-wellbeing-during-pregnancy/
• Tapping Therapy https://www.calm.com/blog/tapping-technique
• Overview of Shadow Work https://www.conni.me/blog/shadow-work
• The Great Birth Rebellion https://www.melaniethemidwife.com/podcasts/the-great-birth-rebellion
• Dr Rachel Reed https://www.rachelreed.website/
• Herstroy by Dr Rachel Reed - First Chapter of Reclaiming Childbirth as a Rite of Passage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSBVz4ulD1E
• Panadol in Labour 
  • https://www.sarawickham.com/promoting-normality/the-paracetamol-question/
  • https://undercovermidwife.blogspot.com/2015/03/paracetamol-and-labour.html
  • https://undercovermidwife.blogspot.com/2017/06/paracetamol-and-pregnancy-more.html
• Ina May Gaskin's Guide to Childbirth https://letstalkbirth.au/products/ina-mays-guide-to-childbirth

Transcript

0:02

Hi everyone, welcome to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys. I'm a mental health nurse, the co -creator of Home Birth Victoria, and I'm a Melbourne based doula. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast, or my work, check out www .birthingathome.com .au. And before we begin today, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Nam, Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. This is the 49th birth at home story and I'm not sure why it took 49 birth stories to get to the Northern Territory. But here it is, the first Northern Territory episode shared today by Assa. a first time mum who shares her beautiful experience with the birth of her daughter, Zoe. What is also special about her story is that with the Defence Force, she was able to claim her entire home birth back on private health insurance, not without a fight, of course. She also shares her preparation for birth and motherhood, how her doula supported her, and about her transfer to hospital for retained membranes after the birth of Zoe's placenta. If you love this ep as much as me, please read or review it on Spotify or Apple podcasts. It means so much to me and it really helps others find the podcast too. Enjoy. Welcome Arso to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Thanks for having me, Arso. Thank you for joining me. Before we get started, do want to give a bit of background to who you are, where you're located, who's in your family, that kind of thing? Yeah, sure. So I just recently moved from Darwin to Canberra for work, but living on the border in New South Wales. I'm in defence, I'm Navy. There's my husband and my daughter who's 16 months old, Zoe, and we have two cats, Nova and Slinky. Nova and Slinky, so cute. How long have you, like, when did you move? we moved about a month ago. So I've been at work for a month. we booked six, seven weeks off to drive down. So we went across to Cairns up, up to the Daintree and then came down the coast. So we had a nice little holiday, driving holiday along the way. Wow. And how long had you been in the Northern territory for? five years. wow. Wow. Yeah. So big change. definitely a sad to go moment for myself. timing it was necessary, not just from a work perspective, but also expanding our family, being closer to the grandparents. Darwin is quite isolated and it was just one of those things that it was sort of now or never we had the opportunity. we took it. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. I imagine it would be such a big change. And so you had your daughter in the Northern territory. Yes. Amazing. I guess like to begin with. because you are, I'm so excited because you are the first story that I've had out of, almost 50 birth stories that's in the Northern territory. But the Northern territory has, I'm pretty sure like the highest rate of home birth in the country. So yeah. Yeah. at least I think in 2021, that's what the stats said. I mean, it's still only like. I think it might be like 1 % or something, but like that's higher. But how did you come to know about home birth? So when I fell pregnant, the model of care that's offered to defence serving members is obstetricians as the gold standard of care. And I just knew that it wasn't what I wanted for myself. I hadn't really been around birth. hadn't I had a lot of friends who had had babies. I was really on my own. I just knew it wasn't what I wanted. It was a discussion I'd had really early on in the piece with my husband that we'd want to do. That sort of was an emotional support for me. bit of backstory, my mom left when I was six. So I haven't had that maternal mentor, I guess, in my life. And it was really important to me moving into a space where I was going to become a mother that I had a mentor and someone to lean on that was a woman. So we first started off by attending a workshop that was being hosted by a local doer. And she obviously given her line of work was really supportive of. home -bath -ing and birth centres and steering clear of obstetricians, I guess, for the first point of call. At that stage, there wasn't actually a practising private midwife in Darwin. It was very close to one arriving. Or maybe she'd already been there, but she hadn't been there for longer than say 12 months. So she was still establishing herself in the Darwin area. and after my meeting with Adola, we decided that we, you know, continue with her. I think I was six or seven weeks pregnant at the time. it was actually quite funny because when I first attended her workshop, she wasn't open to taking on birthing clients. very quickly sort of within a month of having that workshop, she had opened her books. And so it just all sort of aligns that she was now free and I was looking for somebody and we very quickly jumped on board and got on her books. Obviously, early on in the piece, you meet with Yudhula quite regularly to discuss moving forward and your plans, your aspirations for your birth. And she had mentioned in passing that there was a private midwife starting in Darwin. And she had availability for the time that I was due. She'd obviously prepared this sort of, know, with her prior to discussing it with me that she had availability on her books. so I think, yeah, by the time Zoe was born, think Claire had only been operating her business for like 18 months or something like that in Darwin. And I'm not sure how many births she'd had. prior to Zoe's birth, but it was still relatively new for her working in Darwin. So it all just fell into place, Yeah, meant to be. Yeah, just the universal lining, timings and people in the right places and the books being free. So yeah, it was a discussion that I had then had with Kirsty to then meet with Claire and find out whether we were vibing with each other. very quickly decided that that was the plan that I wanted to go down and, you know, have a discussion with work about, you know, doing that. work is a bit of a touchy subject. won't go into a whole lot of details, I guess, but they, weren't super supportive of the idea. they were. really interesting because I actually thought, that defense health, Which must be like, I don't know if that's the private insurance that all defense have access to. I don't know how you get access to that. But I actually was under the impression that through defense health as a sort of insurance thing, it did include a bit of home birth. Yeah. So there's obviously doctrine and policy, which governs everything. my understanding is that we use Bupa who provides private insurance. They're basically the overarching organization which says yes or no to things. Obviously, it's a bit messy, but they weren't super happy for me to birth at home. They were happy for me to get a referral to the public system to use the home birthing center and to do it that way. They weren't so happy with me using a private midwife to birth at home. So in Darwin, is there a birth center? There is a birth center. whilst all this was unfolding with my doula and discussions to get on Claire's books, I had spoken to work about getting a referral to the birth center. I had been for my first appointment at the public hospital and I had a discussion with the midwife there and basically being told by her in a few words that I wasn't going to get what I was looking for basically. terms of like a physiological birth or? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What the heck? Yeah. Just because the birth center everywhere's, know, short staffed in demand. There was a lot of babies due the same month and it was very much a first in best dress policy. So, you know, if I turned up in labor and there was three other ladies in labor, then I was going up to the ward and that's not. What I wanted for my death. Holy moly. So, yeah, so interesting. Yeah, because I guess I had this. you know, preconceived idea, I guess that if the whispers that I've heard is that defense health, like even if you like whoever's choosing that as or like having that as their private health or whatever, because it has to it's offered to defense. I thought, maybe like defense is like more accepting of home birth somehow, maybe like, you know, within the culture of defense, maybe that's somehow accepted because when When you work for defense, are you living like, like just in a regular house or do you live on, I don't know the terminology, I'm sorry. Like do you with other defense families or? So it depends on your family situation. So singly's usually live on base accommodation. some bases do have. It's referred to as the patch, is resident housing available to families. To be eligible for a house with Defence Housing, you basically have to have a family. We are in Defence Housing where we are. That's subsidised housing arrangements for Defence members. That's something totally different, I guess, to the level of know, insurances they offer, I guess, with health services. There's obviously perks that come with the job. I guess one of them is obviously having health insurance. Basically anything that is covered on the Medicare scheme should be something that is accepted and able to be reimbursed by Bupa. Obviously it's a bit touch and go with private midwifery care and their indemnity insurance and all that sort of stuff. So that really was a sticking point for them to say yes to me. But at that point I had really taken it upon myself to take charge and monetary wasn't an issue in this for us. So we were, if we couldn't get reimbursed, then we would just pay for it ourselves. Can I ask roughly how much it costs for you to have a home birth in the Northern territory? It was about eight grand out of pocket. And that was as a private patient, not claiming the Medicare rebates because I then requested reimbursement from the insurer. So I couldn't double dip. paid the full price as a private patient. makes sense. Yeah. And how much roughly did you get back from the insurer? you remember? ended up getting all of it back. was a 15 month battle. Again, it comes back to policy interpretation. At the start there was, no, no, no, we're not helping you. So what I did was I had read the policy in detail and understood it to a T. at the time that I was dealing with my pregnancy and postnatal and antenatal care, I fell into a part of the policy which actually supported private midwifery care as a model of care. some reason, even though was written in black and white, they just didn't want to say yes to me. It was one of those, I don't know, a power play, guess. My doctor wasn't on board, she wasn't supportive, she was doing everything she could to try and get me to see an obstetrician throughout my entire pregnancy. It got to the point where I stopped going to my appointments with her because I would just leave in tears. She was fear -mongering me and basically making out like I was making this horrible choice and putting myself and my baby in danger by proceeding with a home birth. Holy moly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a lot to deal with. Especially as the first time, yeah, he was just trying to navigate the system, not only from a medical perspective, but also a work perspective. And my workplace trying to have such a heavy involvement in my birth plan, which just doesn't make sense. No, that's really freaky actually. but it wasn't until So amazing that you were able to work it the way that you needed it to work for you. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, about 38 weeks, I think it was, I stopped attending appointments with my, defence doctor. and I didn't make contact with them again until after baby had been born. to let them know that it all was well. and I had submitted a request for reimbursement through the, you know, the correct train to, asked for my money back. That was a push and pull for it took 15 months for the reimbursement to come through. It only came through this year. And so it was well over just over a year old by the time I got my money back. it was more based on principle at that point. It wasn't even about the money. It was about policy and my entitlements that were stripped of me. during my pregnancy and just extra stresses that were added to me during pregnancy. It's a battle that wasn't for the faint -hearted. I'm really glad I had my husband to support me with all of that because it was mentally taking its toll on me. With a newborn and all these other things going on to have to fight work as well on top of. At the end of the day, we knew we were right. You know, I got my money back. Holy moly. but I think like, yeah, like it's so important and I'm so grateful that you're sharing your story because like people don't know things are possible until they hear that like somebody else has done it, you know? and yeah, obviously home birth is very expensive. and yet to figure out, to figure out and, you know, share what is possible, I think is so powerful. Just pausing here to thank the August sponsor for the podcast. Mama Goodness is a mom owned business based in Melbourne, founded by life after birth authors, Jessica Prescott and Vaughn Geary. Mama Goodness' goals are to nourish and nurture moms through motherhood. They create plant powered, i .e. vegan, organic and naturopathic formulated products to support women through pregnancy, postpartum and beyond. Their lactation cookies are highly rated. There is also a gluten free option, but they also sell lactation tea and granola. So if you're looking for a tasty treat for yourself or a gift for someone, check out mama goodness online now at www .mammagoodness .com .au. And thanks so much to mama goodness for supporting this month's podcast episodes. in Darwin, like, so you're obviously having like these, this major sort of fight, I guess, and all of this fear mongering and stuff during your pregnancy with like the doctor that you had and whatnot, or the, was it like a GP or? Yeah. Like a GP, but you know, in your circle or in Darwin or like in the area where you were living around friendships, did you know anybody that had had a home birth? No, no. So. I had a lot of friends actually have babies last year. had 10 friends have babies in about 13 or 14 months of each other. I was the fifth person due in our little friend group in sequence. No one else had planned a home birth or was planning on birthing outside of the system. There was a mixture of care with public and private. and a few were also serving members, so they obviously went private. Yeah, no, I was definitely on my own. And from a perspective of dealing with it at work, it's obviously a very male -dominated industry. People are very respectful of pregnant ladies, but in terms of talking about my birth plan, Or like just day -to -day pregnancy things that wasn't something that was really discussed in the workplace. We didn't have any family in Darwin. My sister -in she lived in the territory, but she lived in Catherine, so she wasn't close by. She's got three kids of her own. But yeah, in terms of like, you know, people around me or like lots of, you know, other people with the same interests, it was really me just finding my feet the entire time on my own. obviously my doula and my midwife, and there is a Darwin homebreath in community. I got in contact with them and went to a few catch -ups, monthly catch -ups. But other than that, it was really just the three of us. One week I'd have a midwife appointment, the next week I'd have a doula appointment. Always open communication over text messages or phone calls. It was just really... Just kind of the three of us as my little support team. Plus my husband. Wow. That's beautiful. so like through this whole journey as well, I guess maybe before talking about that or like rolling into that, like, so your husband also, you know, doesn't know anyone that's had a home birth or anything. Do you remember, like, do you remember what his response was like when you first sort of brought up the subject? think because we'd already been to the Doola workshop, which had a very holistic spin and was very pointed in that direction anyway. His mind was already open to it. He was really good at answering and asking questions during the workshop, really supportive of whatever I wanted for my birth. was never a push and pull between You know, being worried about my safety or making the wrong choice for the baby. was very much, you know, whatever you want, you can have. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And it was so fantastic that you were able to connect with the doula as well and that she was like taking on births. What was your pregnancy like apart from all of this fear mongering and whatever else? I think I had a really good pregnancy. Look, I was really ill until about 15 weeks just with food aversions. I couldn't even drink water. It was really bad. I don't know if it was to do with the Darwin water. I'm really hoping that my next pregnancy I don't have that. But I was putting splashes of like cordial or splashes of milk into my water just to try and mask the taste of it. was thirsty but I couldn't drink it. I went through a stage of only being able to drink the pump lime water bottles. that you get from the so's for $6. I remember Chris just being beside himself every time he saw me with a new one because they're so expensive. But it was the only thing I could drink without feeling worse. I couldn't eat meat. I just was really off food. Even now, certain smells, even my wardrobe for some reason in the old house. just like took me back to like, you know, first trimester morning sickness. Yeah, was pretty rough. I think I threw up maybe once or twice. Like I didn't, you know, I wasn't vomiting every day and you I was going through periods of just like gagging and just feeling really ill, just really sick. And I remember coming home from work because I was, you know, still working full time and just getting in the shower in a cold shower and sitting on the floor for like 20 minutes and then, you know, crawling out in front of the air conditioner and just lying on the ground on the top on the cold tiles, just going, what, what is this? When will it end? Yeah. Yeah. and yeah, I think around 15 weeks, I started feeling better. Thank goodness. I put on a lot of weight really quickly. I've not had body dysmorphia or anything like that, but definitely I'm a numbers person. so watching the scale go up every week was really upsetting to me, even though I knew it was normal. I stacked on about seven kilos, I think, in my first trimester, which generally isn't the way it goes. Usually you start gaining weight in the second trimester or something like that. Yeah, it's not really super common for weight, like so much weight gain in first trimester. that had me down. And because I was just so ill, like even just going for a walk just was too hard. So once I got past that morning sickness and stuff and was able to get a bit more active and go for walks in the afternoon, we started getting out of the house a bit more and I was starting to eat better and all those sorts of things. don't really remember anything else being a super problem for me. Obviously, working in defense, I was wearing cams, boots, hats, jackets down to my wrists, fully covered every day. Being out in the heat was hard. Obviously, we still work in air conditioned buildings and stuff. Just spending as minimal time as I could outside and getting into the aircon as fast as I could. Other than that, with pretty smooth. In defense, like for pregnancy, do they have like specific uniforms that you can wear? Yeah, yeah. So they have maternity camps. I managed to make it until six months before I transitioned into my maternity camps. I did go upper size in between in that weird, she fat? Is she pregnant stage? until I was, you I had a big enough belly to be able to put on my maternity cams. They're basically the same. They just have a big stretchy waistband like, you know, your maternity jeans that you can buy. And the shirt is jacket, sorry, it's like a smock. It has tabs on each side, like Velcro tabs. So as your stomach gets bigger, you can, you know, release the tabs. And so yeah, look, I remember the first day I showed up to work in them and I just remember crying in the bathroom because I just felt so big. Yeah. and I wasn't, it wasn't even because I was showing that big. was because my uniform was so big on me. barely, I didn't even look pregnant. I was six months pregnant and I even look pregnant under this mock. Yeah. and also we were in the transitional phase of our maternity cams being in a, camo pattern. So we'd been issued new camo patterns, which, you know, the material is a bit more lightweight. sort of, I don't know, maybe four years ago, they did a rollout, but they were still in the final stages of removing the old camo pattern in the maternity cams. So I got issued a pair of maternity cams in the old cams. So as soon as I turned up to work in them, everybody knew I was pregnant. It was very, very obvious because the pattern was different to what everybody else was wearing. Yeah. So I didn't, you know, it was, look, it's obvious enough from a distance if someone's wearing maternity cams, but let alone being in sort of a different pattern as well. Yeah. It makes you really stand out. And that's something that I personally don't enjoy about being pregnant. grateful and all, but like there's still for me personally, downsides. and it's because you really stick out, like everybody knows you can like, and yeah. Yeah, I used to work in Youth Justice. And so you have like these security belts and it just looked like ridiculous because like my belly was so big. I'd be like waddling around with this belt and just like it. Yeah. I mean, maternity clothing is just not so great, but like the belly, just everyone. Yeah. And I just, it makes you kind of the center of attention or like people are aware of you a lot more like on, I remember being on public transport and like somebody would offer me the seat and I would be like, you're just doing it cause I'm pregnant. Like, and just, you know, being, yeah, pointed out kind of thing, but yeah, let alone having a different pattern of. Yeah. Wow. From a civilian aspect, they wouldn't even notice it was different. you're working around on a military base, everyone can tell that you're pregnant. Yeah. And again, going back to that male -dominated industry, not that anyone really cares, but I guess you feel different ways when you're pregnant. can feel really... empowered or really insecure. There's lots of different emotions that you feel as a pregnant woman. So I guess being in that environment wearing that uniform because it really is a male uniform. They've made minor tweaks to make it more comfortable, I guess, but it was definitely designed by a male. You never actually have to wear it or be comfortable in it. yeah, it just made me definitely more self -conscious. and until when did you work? worked up until 37 weeks. So in defense, they send you on maternity leave at 36 weeks, unless you, it could even be 34. It's four weeks prior to being 40 weeks that you have to have a letter to continue working. So if you don't get a clearance from your midwife or your OB, they send you on maternity leave. But you can get a waiver to work up until I think it's 38 weeks. Surely they'd send you on before. Yeah. They must send you on leave before 40 weeks. Right? Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. So I decided to, finish up. think, I think it was 37 weeks. So could just have, you know, three weeks at home, to get myself sorted, just to help me be able to chill out and put my feet up and just enjoy, you know, the calm before the storm really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything throughout your pregnancy that, you know, obviously you went to this workshop and you're like connecting in with the daughter and midwife throughout. but was there anything extra that you did, like in preparation for pregnancy labor? Yeah, I did. So I, I was seeing a psychologist already just because I'm that sort of person that likes to talk about my feelings. I know it's really good for my mental health. I don't have that person really in my life, apart from my husband obviously. it takes a bit of the load off him too, me being able to talk to somebody else. He's so good in so many ways, but there's some places where it's better if I talk to somebody else. I'm sure we all have certain friends that we go to for certain things. It's exactly that same. And so it was important for me to stay connected with my psychologist whilst I was pregnant because I knew I'd have a lot of things come up for me around my own childhood, around my own lack of having a mother, raising me, what motherhood was going to look like for me. So lots of discussions around that. I saw a tapping therapist and did some work. you know, sort of on my inner child, preparation of, you know, motherhood, you know, just really things that like, you know, shadow work, those sorts of things that I felt really important. especially once I found out the gender, knowing that I was going to have a little girl, it just was really important for me to, you know, focus and heal some parts of me. before she got here. So I could be the best version of myself. I had regular contact with a chiropractor who I'd see for adjustments every fortnight, maybe three weekly, depending on how I was feeling. I do have a neck injury, a spinal injury. So going into pregnancy, I was really mindful of how that was going to stand up, I guess, against the extra weights. was carrying around birth, what that would look like for me in terms of movement and my pain threshold and whatever else. So really mindful of that. And yeah, I would try and get monthly massages with a woman who specialized in pregnancy massage for women. Yeah, I did a lot of things really. in order to prepare my body and my head space and yeah, so my livelihood and birth. Yeah, that's yeah, really amazing. guess, yeah, like people often focus on the physical aspect of like preparation for this whole journey, but the mental side is yet equally, if not more important because yeah, like in labor birth, you know, it is that very vulnerable kind of state. like even like, you know, postpartum, you're still quite, yeah, like you do reflect so much more on your own childhood and your own relationships and how you were raised and whatnot. I remember I went to a psychologist before my first son was born in 2020. And it was actually a super invalidating experience. I thought like you, was like, like, you know, I need to go sort some things out before I become a parent. Because I, you know, I haven't had the most fantastic childhood. yeah, the psychologist that I went to, I must have just gone to a dodgy one because she, was, yeah, maybe I was just feeling extra vulnerable to invalidation, but I never went back. But I, Yeah, I think that is like such a valuable thing to do, especially if you have like had traumatic experiences in your childhood and so, true about, you know, because you see yourself in, you know, in your children and like having a girl, can totally, yeah, I mean, I have two sons, so I mean, even today, we went to the zoo and I went to the bathroom by myself and usually I would take Murphy, but he's four. And so he, I guess, yeah, he went with his dad. But, you know, I went to the bathroom and I was like drying my hands and I was like, like at some point, my sons are going to be too old to come into the women's bathroom and it's just going to be me. I know that sounds like very strange. And when I told my husband, he was like, like what, what do you, that was very weird. you know that, yeah, I mean, you having a daughter, you, yeah, I can totally imagine. Yeah, how important it would be to sort of, you know, start to heal that wound. Because yeah, that is the the red thread, like what you're passing. Yeah, Yeah, I had focused, you know, I like reading and I like looking at information and I spent a lot of time looking on Instagram and looking at, you know, positive birth stories and following all the right pages and, you know, listening to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast and reading books by Rachel Reed and, you you talk about the Red Third and reading the reclaiming childbirth as a rite of passage. yeah, it was just really important for me to, yeah, keep doing what I was doing and getting to the bottom of things before, you know, it was time for birth and time to meet, Zoe. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. holy moly. And so did you have any fears for this experience like going through it, especially, you know, not super connected to anybody else having home birth? my biggest. fear, I guess, was just making it to 37 weeks so could birth at home. I remember getting to that timeframe and picking up the birth pool and being like, this is going to happen. I had an anterior placenta and I didn't feel so I really moved that much until I don't know, probably like early 20 weeks or something like that. It took ages. I'd feel an occasional flutter and stuff, but until I was feeling her kicks and whatnot. I remember just being really uncertain about her positioning and being just really upset that she was going to be transverse or like, know, I, reach wasn't like a super big problem because my midwife had had breach training. If we got to that point, was something that we were going to discuss at that point. For some reason, I just had it my head that she was transverse and she was going to stay transverse. I'd have to have a caesarian and all my planning and sports and all this stuff, it would come back to this because I couldn't tell how she was sitting no matter how much time I spent trying to... map out, you know, her body in my belly. I just couldn't work out where her head was, where her bum was. And it was just, yeah, I just, that's where my mind went. I just spiral and end up being like, she's, she's sideways and she's not going to move. And she was never sideways. know, at every appointment, she was also always where she should be. And she was head down from, you know, early 20 weeks as well. Like, yeah, it was just really, I don't know why I just got fixated on that. And yeah, just, just making it to the cutoff. to be able to have a home birth was probably my biggest thing. And then sort of later on in gestation, my only other fear that I had was probably around postpartum hemorrhage, given that that's just something that is obviously a valid thought and something that a lot of people, reading stories and best stories and whatever else is a, thank God we were in hospital moment. to deal with that sort of thing. And that was definitely a session that I worked through with my doula, a discussion I had with my midwife, and you know, put things in place around postpartum hemorrhage, you know, for the birth, like, you my doula had tinctures on standby and all these sorts of things that we did to, you know, sort of lower my fear around that. Yeah, absolutely. And I think often, especially when you hear those things, God for the hospital stories. Yeah. Yeah. It's totally not taking into account that the birth of the placenta and you know, all of that is relying on physiology. And so if you don't have physiology or if, know, you're not feeling safe and secure in your environment, if it's, if the environment's not right, then It's going to make it more risky, in terms of that postpartum hemorrhage. And that's, that's just the evidence. That's like facts. And I think, my biggest fear around it wasn't even me bleeding out. was more the fact that like, I didn't want to have something happen to me and just leave my husband with a baby. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, like I wasn't even like super worried about me. Like I had no fear around like laboring. I had no fear about like birthing. It was just. On the other end, leaving my husband without me to look, to look after this small baby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, you often hear how traumatic those stories are for, well, I mean, I personally often hear them partner stories when, especially in hospital settings and as a student midwife, you know, sometimes you would be there with the dad, like him holding the baby whilst the mom was, you know, off having something done because, know, they don't. really like let you come in with the whole crew anymore, you know, like, yeah. So I can totally understand that. And how many weeks at how many weeks did you go into labor with Zoe? 40 plus five. nice. So you finished at 37, did you say? Yeah, I think it was like just the end of week 37. So I think it was like, you know, I might've been 38 weeks on the Monday and I finished up on the Friday. And. Like, so that was, was it pretty hot then? That would have been like just the end of summer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was pregnant all through wet season. it usually changes around April, late April, May we start moving into the dry season. So yeah, my end of my pregnancy, don't recommend being pregnant in Darwin during wet season. But in saying that, it's. It kind of has its perks as well because once baby's here, know, those are the months where you spend in the aircon inside because it's wet, it's raining, you can't go anywhere, it's humid. So by the time the dry came around, she was nearly four months old. we could, you know, it was a good time for us to, you know, go out and do things because, you know, her immune system was built up. We were more confident as parents. And yeah, so maybe it is a good time to have a baby. Pro's and cons. and so before 40 plus five, did you have any signs that like, labor was nearing? Like, anything like that? Yeah, look, I had a few days of like, prodromal weight above, probably a week beforehand. I remember like the last time, like last ditch effort to have my cleaners come through before like 40 weeks. I remember like. being downstairs, rolling around on the birth ball because I was having contractions and I was like, please don't happen while they're here. Like, please just let them finish. Finish cleaning the house first. And yeah, probably I had maybe one or two bouts of that, but nothing severe. It was probably just her repositioning and getting ready. I remember specifically having that conversation with my midwife about not taking Panadol when those sorts of things happen because Panadol can halt the contractions and slow them down and then just being really mindful of not doing anything to prevent them starting when it was real and when it was time to go. I think I sort of went into like early labor, started having really irregular contractions on the Thursday and she was born on the Saturday morning. It was about 35 hours that we came to a grants on with my birth team about where I started my labor and when she was born. and so you were going to use a birth pool. Did you have any other things that you, had on hand? Yeah. So I was like super, like I wanted to be super proactive and like, wanted to be upright and I wanted to use movement and I had the birth sling and, you know, I a staircase in my house. I planned on, you know, walking up the stairs and, yeah, just all these things with like movement right in the forefront of my mind. And. When I went into labor, I didn't want to do any of that. I just wanted to lay on my bed and side lay. yeah, Pretty much the entire, labor up until, you know, transition, I basically side laid. Wow. Wow. Yeah. So do you want to walk us through the labor a bit, Yeah, yeah. 35 hours of it. Yeah. Yeah. So as I said, you know, sort of once I hit that 37 weeks and I knew that it was on for a home, but, you know, I'd sort of started pottering and planning before that point. you know, I put affirmations up on the wall. I, you know, set out the bedroom. had a really big bedroom, which was perfect to have, you know, multiple people in, in the bath. so I had strong cryo lights and I put up all my affirmations and my birth pictures and you know, colorful things on the walls and had, know, been collecting things for my birth altar. I was really invested in, you know, my birth space being warm and cozy and, you know, every night, every day, you know, I'd get up and do my hair, my, do my teeth and read these affirmations on the wall in my bathroom and, you walking through the house, there was, you know, affirmations on the wall. So I really, you know, empowering weeks prior, you know, reaching full time. When early labor started on the Thursday, it was perfect because I'd actually had a meeting planned with my midwife that afternoon. I'd started losing my mucus plug and getting the pink mucus. It was obviously early days, but I knew that it was starting to come away. She came and she checked me. probably early afternoon on the Thursday and I explained that I was getting really low, heavy aching in my back, that it had been keeping me awake at night time. I remember probably two nights before the Thursday, waking up at two, three or four o'clock in the morning and feeling like I had food poisoning. needed to go to the toilet ASAP because my tummy was really upset and I just needed get to the toilet. I remember getting up and going to sit on the toilet and nothing happening. was just my body shifting and just that really low aching in my pelvis and my back and just a few really uncomfortable nights sleep. Saying all that to my midwife, she was pretty confident that labor was... close. that was obviously exciting to get her opinion and confirmation, I guess, that things are moving in the right direction. I remember her saying that my blood pressure was probably a little bit high during that meeting, but she wasn't concerned given that labor was imminent sort of thing and I was full time and whatever else. I remember being really quite swollen and just holding fluid hapes and my my legs and stuff. Nothing severe in terms of, what's that thing called? Yeah, preeclampsia. Nothing like that. I just remember just being over it by that point and ready to go into labor. Being on my feet for long periods of time, I couldn't do that anymore. I just wanted to sit down and rest. It was good that it sounded like, from what she was saying and how I was describing, that birth really wasn't a week away. So I remember after she left, know, things sort of carried on in that direction. I'm still getting really irregular contractions and feeling like really heavy in my, in my bum. Like I just remember this really heavy feeling. And that to me was kind of like the confirmation to myself that things weren't too far away. I remember telling Chris that I wanted to go out for breakfast the next day because it was like our last chance to go and have breakfast together. Just the two of us. So we did that. And I remember like eating my, eating my acai bowl and like, he's like, you okay? I'm like, yep, just give me a minute. Like, you know, like we made this venture out of the house and. You know, it was something that I wanted to do, but then halfway through breakfast, was like, why are we even here? Like, let's just go It was so silly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Still don't regret that. Yeah. You'll never ever have that again. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So I remember coming home and yeah, just remember like, this is the real deal. Like we're going to have a baby, whether it be like tonight or the next night or the next night, whatever it is. what's happening. And I remember I had been reading Ina Mae Gaskin's Guide to Childbirth and I spent lots of time reading the first half, but I hadn't really picked up the second half, which is all birth stories. I was like, now's the perfect time. Like I'm in early labor and know, I went and just read basically for like, I don't know, maybe an hour, maybe two hours until, know, sort of it got to sunset and I was getting tired and couldn't focus anymore. I remember that night we just didn't sleep really. Like it was just dozing in and out of contractions. And I remember, Chris pulling up a chair next to beside the bed and holding my hands because I didn't want him to like spoon me. And I didn't want to be like facing him in the bed because I'd have to like get up and roll over to like get up to wee. And I just wanted to be able to lay on one side facing out with like, you know, being able to put my foot on the ground really quickly in the event I wanted to get up and just having him there to hold my hand. And I remember just like basically being in that position for hours, just dozing in and out of sleep and him doing the same thing because obviously sitting in a chair is not very comfortable. got someone, you know, starting to, you know, say things hurt and that they're uncomfortable repetitively. I probably put on the tense machine by this point. I remember putting the pads on and stuff like that and turning it on for the first time and really not. enjoying the sensation that it was giving me. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I just, didn't vibe with it at all. I, in saying that I probably kept it on for maybe three or four hours. Yeah. I didn't like the surge setting. I sort of just had it like lulling in the background. That was okay. But as the contractions picked up, I just, I didn't like it. just, I I'd turn it off at that point and put it back onto the dull setting. We managed just the two of us and using that coming and going with the tens until early hours of Friday morning where we thought it was a polite time to contact my daughter. We contacted her, think, was probably around 6 a We lived a half an hour drive away. Chris had sent her a polite message, been like, we've been up all night and I was doing really well, but do reckon you could drop by and just check on us, which was obviously all part of the plan anyway. We just trying to be really polite about getting her up and over to the house prior to 7 AM, which was obviously no worries. We'd worded her out the day before that my mucus plug was pulling away and that we'd had the midwife appointment and we'd been in regular contact anyway throughout Thursday evening. You know, she just touched base before she went to bed and that sort of thing. So he was aware that, you know, things were moving along. Yep. like, so you've gone through your first night without sleep. Did you have any, or like, you know, any meaningful sleep, I guess, but did you have like mentally any sort of doubt or you were just kind of accepting like this is just how it is. Like it's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. I think we were, we were both fine. Like. We obviously expected a long labor because being first time and lots of stuff, I had no doubt in my mind that I was going to labor for less than 24 hours. Things really weren't that bad. My contractions were still probably more than five minutes apart, but closer than 10. There was still lasting for a period of time. They were definitely still on the irregular side, but happening more consistently. At the earlier times, probably when I started using the TENS machine, we were using one of those contraction apps. after Kirsty had been and confirmed that, you're in labor, it's happening, we stopped looking at the phone, we stopped farming them. because it was more so, guess, confirmation for our birth team that I was in labor. Yeah, so true. Once we'd confirmed and then she's like, yep, you're in labor. Why did I need to keep an eye on my contractions? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, she stopped by. She checked in whether I'd been eating anything. The last thing I really ate was my acai bowl for breakfast. I just didn't want food. I couldn't even look at a cracker. I tried to eat, I could sip some coconut water, could sip a little bit of water here and there, but I got some lollies, I've got all these different things that people recommend to have in labour and I just couldn't eat anything. was just off it. I remember after she left, because she ended up saying, I'll come see you guys later, you're doing really well, there's no point in being here, you best left undisturbed. got each other, I'm here if you need me, just send a message away." Once she checked on us, she was out the door again. Then after that, the day, Friday day, I progressed more obviously. I threw up probably three times. just remember her just involuntary, like I needed to go do away and like I'd sit on the toilet and have a contraction and like all of a sudden I was like, I'm gonna throw up. And I remember like involuntary like having a way and throwing up through a contraction and Chris standing at the bathroom door and me just being like, don't look at me. Yeah, yeah. And was it a sidebar that you were vomiting on? hopefully by that point I think that a good Digested. Yeah, I really didn't have much to fill up. was just a whole lot of like, by the third time it was just a whole lot of bile and I just remember my throat like the entire time I was in labour I just kept having reflux. Every contraction I was like throwing up a little bit in my mouth and like re -solluming it and I just, that was the honestly that was like the worst part for me. because I couldn't move past it. Like I tried to have some gallus gone and I'd throw it back up and, yeah, I just, every, with every contraction, I'd have this reflux. And I think, if I didn't have had that, I would have been a lot happier. Like, obviously, you labor's just hard anyway, but like having to deal with the reflux on top of like. just remember my lips were so dry and starting to crack. Yeah, obviously the vomiting had subsided, but my doula was recommending trying to eat ginger lollies and anything I could do to try and settle that nausea and I just couldn't. There was just nothing I could do about that until after birth. There was nothing that could settle it for me, unfortunately. yeah, that really... I don't know, that's just really going to stick with me for a while. And mentally, so you you've vomited so many times, you're feeling super dehydrated and whatnot, like what was going through your mind? Yeah, so I was dehydrated. At this point, the midwife hadn't come yet. So Kirstie hadn't contacted Claire to say come over. Kirstie had come back probably about four o 'clock in the afternoon. So she checked in like six or seven a and then she left for the day and come back. she made a decision to call Claire not too long after that, probably maybe an hour after that, because I kept telling her that I felt my bladder was full, like I hadn't weaned for a long time. It was just in my mind that I needed to be able to empty my bladder for my baby to descend. It was just something that I'd read in a lot of stories where people had got to the point where they couldn't do a wee because of how low baby was sitting. their bladder being so full had impacted the baby coming out. And so it was just like in the forefront of my mind, like, my God, I haven't been, I haven't done a wee in like four hours, like my bladder's full, like baby's not going to come out. And in order to deal with that, guess, Kirsty called Claire and she came over and she did an in and out catheter for me. And I actually didn't have that much wee. It was just like, it was all mine, but like I do have a really sensitive bladder. which probably had made me feel like that as well. And because, I was side laying, I was starting to get like sciatic pain in my left hip as well. So my contractions weren't actually sitting in my cervix. They were sitting in my hip. So between the reflux and the sciatic pain and then the, you know, the toileting on top of, I just was starting to like, not be focused. so yeah. My doula made the call to call the midwife and who came over. She was probably there within 20 minutes, but I can't tell you timeframes. She did give me an IV drip for dehydration and she did an in and out catheter. After that, I felt just a lot better. My contractions, I could feel them in my cervix and they were out of my hip. I was just ready to go again sort of thing. Yeah. The thing we hadn't sorted at that point was the reflux. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So, yeah. after that I did try and get up from side lane to go on the birth wall. but I found that that was just too overbearing. My contractions were too close together at that point and I just wasn't comfortable. So I went back to side lane. I don't have like a timeline of like what. time of day this was. that's okay. Yeah. And so what kind of stuff was the was your doula doing to sort of support you? Yeah, so she was really hands on with like trying to offer like massage, like rubbing my feet, you know, making sure my hair was out of my face. She had her sound healing forks, which she was doing. We had music playing, I believe, I think we had my diffuser on, I can't remember. We had oil essential roller blends and the whole work. yeah, there was lots going on. Chris obviously didn't leave my side. He was really tired as well, so he hadn't slept. you know, we're both, I remember once Kirstie got there, he sort of took a step back and had a little lay down. Not long. I don't know if he had a slate, but just, he just had a recomposure of himself and maybe a later on. She took her over for a bit. and I remember at this point, just like sort of remembering that the sun was starting to go down. So, you know, it had, it had been a day at this point. the sun was starting to go down. Yeah. in summer, this might sound like a bit of a silly question, but in, in summer, like, so I guess that much sort of period. In Darwin, when does the sun go down? Yeah, look, it varies so much. Like it could be after eight o 'clock at nighttime. You know, we've had sunset as late as like quarter to nine. So yeah, we were definitely, you know, starting to get on with the day at this point. I think probably not long after all that had happened, Claire and Kirsty left us so they could go and have a dinner break. I just remember having a cuddle on the bed and just feeling warmth and love and supported and just in a really good head space and just resting between contractions still. Then things sort of picked up and by the time they got back, it was quite clear that I'd started going through transition. was funny actually because We joke about it that, you know, whilst they're downstairs eating their Red Rooster and I'm upstairs, you know, going through transition and it's just like a perfect home birth story, you know, being left in my own devices with my husband. know, they're just outside the door, but they're doing their own thing and eating their chicken. You know, while they're, you know, the woman's laboring away with her husband. Yeah. It's just, it's, yeah, it's funny when we think about it now. that's what they were doing whilst I was going through a transition. So when they came back, they're asking all the questions like, how are you feeling? And I just remember being like, I'm just having these convulsions and I can't control them. And I had a pillow between my legs. And I remember just like, at that point, just feeling like I was being squeezed by a snake and just so involuntary all these you know, full body convulsions and trying to explain what that felt like to them. And obviously they knew what, that meant. But like, know, it's the first time I'm experiencing it. So yeah, yeah. obviously it was all, you know, had everything was heading in the right direction. and probably not too long after, you know, we'd had that conversation. They obviously didn't leave the room again. we, we had done a mother blessing for me, probably. I don't know, maybe three weeks beforehand where we'd done the red thread ceremony and we took that opportunity to cut our threads and to do a little sound healing and cut our ribbons. I remember thinking in my head, yes, this is it. We're getting to the pointy end of things. Probably like, I don't think Zoe was born for another four or five hours after that. And remember in my head being like, why aren't we setting up the birth pool? Like, why aren't we doing that? Like, am I not, I'm feeling a bit disheartened. I'd like, where's the pool? Like, how come I'm not getting in the pool? Like, am I not that close to giving birth? Like, what's going on? And a discussion after birth was that, you know, it's my birth story. Like if I had have asked for the birth pool, if I had have asked to get in the water, they would have done that for me, but it didn't, they didn't want to take it away from me how my plan, like my birth journey was to unfold. so unless I was in distress or unless I was starting to panic or unless I was having a lot of pain, it wasn't something that they were going to mention. And then once we really got to the pushing stage, it was kind of too late for me to get in the water. Yeah. So it's funny looking back, like if I had have just been able to use my words and say, Hey, what are we doing about that I probably would have ended up in the pole. But you know, their words, you know, was laboring beautifully and like I was using my breathing and I wasn't stressed. I was just in the zone and you know, there was no need to interfere with that. Zoe was born on land. Yeah. Yeah. So. Probably about this time after we'd done the red thread and not that anything was stalling, but I'd been in labor for quite a while at this point. Claire asked if she could do a V for me and I agreed to it. Just to confirm where I was at and she confirmed I was fully dilated and she suggested that now was a good time to get up and move around. So I did. which I didn't want to because I was getting all that hip pain. Whether or not it helped moving or not, I can't really tell you. But I moved to the toilet and I remember being there for maybe three or four really strong contractions and my water broke. After that, I just didn't want to be there anymore. I wanted to go back to laying down. was just too close, like my contractions were just too close together and it was just overbearing. Yeah. It was just like, wow, like, wow. You know, I thought it was bad beforehand and now I'm wow. Yeah. And this was probably like quarter to 12 at night. So, you know, we're just on the final hour of the Friday night. And remember going back into the bedroom and being over the birth ball and being like, no, I don't want to be here. I want to be back on the bed. I want to lay down again. and clearly like, that's totally fine. Like, you know, you, you will birth your baby on your side if that's how you want to. yeah. And so we moved back to the bed and I think I was there for maybe 20 minutes or something like that. And I decided that I didn't want to be there anymore. I wanted to get up. and so I moved to a kneeling position beside the bed. And at that point, Chris was sitting on the side of the bed and I had my arms wrapped around him and I was kneeling. So I was kneeling into his lap. was just remember bearing down really effectively in that position because my arms were around his waist and I had really good support. And I remember being really cognizant of having my knees together and my ankles out. And I just remember like doing that. And I remember being there for like what felt like forever. each contraction, could feel, not so much feel her coming down, but once her head got to almost crowning and sliding back up in through each contraction and like coming down a little bit more, I just remember going, how, like thinking, how long is this going to take? Like, and kind of like feeling like I wasn't doing it right, if that makes sense. I was like, yeah, just. I was probably really tired at this point as well, you know, it had been a long, a long haul. I remember both times specifically thinking it feels like I am pushing against like a brick wall. feels like this is never like nothing's moving. It feels like I'm trying so hard and nothing's happening, but things do happen. Yeah. And so, I look. I was probably, I could have been there for like 20 minutes. have no idea, but it felt like a tenor me. And I remember when her head started crowning, I instinctively wanted to put up my right leg. So I went into like a spot. whatever it's called. Whatever. Yeah. So I automatically did that and I wish I had have done it just a little bit sooner because when like, I didn't have any tearing, but I did have a few lacerations around my urethra. I just like instinctively did it, but I I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it, but I wish my body would have prompted me to do that just a little bit sooner. I remember Claire being like, do you want to feel ahead? And me just being like, no, I don't want to feel ahead. It was such a weird, I hadn't been around babies before, I'd never held a newborn. And so the whole concept of having my own baby in like 80 minutes now. that's like, I remember just kind of almost having this like, fear of meeting her for the first time. Yeah, I don't know. It's just weird. I just didn't want to touch her head. Yeah. just know. So I remember after her head came out, you know, the pause and I, you know, probably, you know, one, maybe two more contractions after that, she come out and Claire was sitting behind me at that point and she caught her sort of, you know, she came out and she passed her straight up to me. One of my birth Plan Wishes was to be the first one to talk to her. So my first words to her were, hi, baby. And yeah, just the room was just so, you know, warmth and like love and just, you know, the atmosphere was perfect. At some point between me and my water's breaking, that obviously called the secondary midwife as well. I can't specifically remember when she entered, but I do remember being told that she was entering the room. I had no issues with her being there. I had met her previously at an appointment. So yeah, obviously I was aware that she was going to show up at some point. so yeah. I don't know, I think it was like nine minutes after Zoe had been born, my placenta was birthed. was still in the same position. I was still kneeling and Zoe had latched. and we were all sort of having a laugh and, know, like there was tears and, know, Chris and I, and it was just, you know, really magical, special moment. And, yeah, I just, didn't even have to do anything. Like I just remember the placenta sort of birthing itself. I remember everyone looking at each other being like, wow, like that's the fastest I think I've ever seen a placenta being. And it was so like, it was just so, satisfying for me. noting that postpartum hemorrhage was one of my things and the third stage, birthing the placenta was something that I was really cognizant of and everything just went beautifully. I didn't have much blood loss, so he latched perfectly. She was obviously perfect. She cried as soon as she was born. The room was just, the atmosphere was perfect. Everyone there was perfect. Yeah, it was just a really fantastic moment. She was born at 129. Wow. On the 10th of March. So I was kind of hoping for Sir Patrick's Day, baby. Yeah. But he was holding on a little bit longer. Yeah. Holy moly. I've had shivers like multiple times throughout the storytelling. yeah, wow. Like so, so special. Yeah, can really like imagine like that fear of. Yeah, you're like your life, you know, I'm going back to like that cafe with the acai bowl and stuff. And I mean, you'll you'll be able to like go out with Chris and have an acai bowl or whatever by yourselves. Of course. But like once the baby is born, you will always be a parent like until the day you. Like even when you're dead, you're still a parent, you know? And like, yeah, that that is, yes, such a powerful moment that, you know, when a baby is born, like entering this world, like it's yeah, I mean, I mean, this is why we get obsessed with birth, right? Because like it's so powerful. Yeah, just such a special... Like that is being a human. Like I just, yeah, I'm kind of lost for words. I just... Yeah, I'm just in awe. I'm just in awe, to be honest. Yeah, I mean, it even doesn't even feel real for me. I was there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was, sorry, she's born at like, you know, the middle of the night. What were those first hours like with her? Yeah, she was great. I did not, it wasn't like a complication, but I did have retained membranes afterwards. So. we did end up transferring to hospital about 3am, I think it was, when we went. After she was born, we did a little tidy up, we laid on the bed, had a little cuddle. They got me cup of tea and then did an internal examination. Claire had done a sweep and found some membranes. She had tried to remove them herself, but they kept grabbing and they were starting to tear. on their own. The decision was to administer the centosum jab to see if that would help release it with the contractions. There was no luck there. waited, I think it was like 30 minutes before we had to make a decision whether or not we were going to transfer. We waited the 30 minutes, she tried again, no luck. I had a shower, got changed. this point, Zoe was with Chris and they were having a little kid. and I was just you know being looked after by the ladies. My daughter, she is a mom herself and she had done all the cleaning up and like put on my sheets in the washing machine and said I'm heading off you know you know got my kids to go home too and like all right no worries see you later. It was to come back the next day to check on me and we transferred we drove to the hospital which was only five minutes around the corner in our own car with with Claire, the midwife, who had let them know that we were going to come in. We went up to the birthing wards and I got seen too by the nurses on watch. We'd had a discussion about what was to happen if we weren't able to remove them and I decided with Claire that I didn't want them to try and do a sweep again and that if they were seriously still stuck that I would like to just go under to get that removed. I just didn't want it to affect my birth story. didn't want to have that trauma, I guess, of someone outside of my birth space, digging around in my womb after I'd just given birth. It was just the decision that I've made for myself as what we wanted to get done. after having that discussion, I needed to do a wee, so I went to do a wee and I actually passed all the membranes in the toilet. they did a quick, quick internal check while we were still there and they gave me the all clear. you know, they told me that I would, you know, could come back if I needed to. and, know, given that I was only five minutes from the hospital, that they were happy for me to go home if I wanted to go home, which we made the decision to just return home. And yeah, so that was a really good experience as well. Obviously I'm grateful that everything just sort of cleared on its own. I think it probably had a lot to do with, you know, being upright, walking around. You know, we had to take the lift up to like the eighth floor and then wait around a bit. you know, I was on my feet at this point, you know, walking around a little bit, being a bit active and everything just sort of figured itself out. So yeah, that was a really positive experience. Yeah, we went home, tried to get Maccas on the way home and they absolutely forgot half our order, which is awful. And you will always remember that. And Chris had to give me his egg and bacon muffin because there was only one in the bag. And it was funny because I didn't even want it. Like by the time I remember sitting in the drive -through, like he was driving and I was in the back with Zoe in the car seat, which we'd put in like, you know, two or three days before him. Thank goodness. I remember sitting there just shaking, like I was so cold and I'm like, turn the heater on. And he's like, why? I'm like, just turn the heater on. Like I'm literally shaking because I got into the hospital. It's Darwin, right? I just gone to the hospital in a dress. Like I hadn't taken a jumper. and I felt okay when I was up on the ward, but yeah, like probably what, two hours after birth and I was just like uncontrollably shaking. I was like, wow, can't wait to get home and like get rubbed up and get a warm. and I think I'm pretty sure we left, we said our goodbyes to Claire at the hospital car park and you know, we went home and she went home. obviously, you know, they came and checked on us, you know, within 24 hours after that. And, had my full six weeks postpartum with her, which was really good. yeah. So, yeah, was just, yeah, everything just works and. Yeah, just no negativity around like any part of it. You know, no, no real fear around any part of it. just on top of the world afterwards. And obviously, you know, the fact that, we latched, we had no issues with my milk coming in. I'm still breastfeeding 16 months later. I've managed to make that work. working full time and, you know, expressing when I returned to work and, know, it's been a big journey. yeah. And I owe it all to like, you know, being able to be proactive about researching everything, know, physiological birth, obviously having the right support networks. Just, yeah, obviously a lot of it comes down to your willingness and proactiveness in what you want for your birth journey and what you want your postpartum to look like. And a lot of people, as you said before, do a lot of preparation for birth, but don't do any preparation for postpartum. And I'd already organized to see an IV CLC. and just, you know, had these things planned prior to giving birth so I could set myself up for my best postpartum. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, everybody should be doing that. I think that's such an important, like, because once, once baby is here, like there's nothing worse. They kind of sitting at home being like, well, crap. I wish I had organized something, you know? had some spare milk in the fridge. Yeah. you know, and it just, yeah. And makes things go so much smoother when you feel like, okay, cool. This is coming up. Okay. I already organized that. you know, like. You might not use any of it like, you know, you with the birth pool, but wouldn't have been so horrible to be laying there being like, my gosh, I, you know, I mean, in your case, you know, also verbalizing, I want to get in order and not actually having access to water. You know, it changes your experience of that whole journey. So I think, yeah. And, and, or like order to continue breastfeeding successfully. for such a duration as well. that, you know, it takes a lot of work, you know, and especially when you're working as well. So a hundred percent. I'm just like so amazed by your story and I love it. Thank you so, much. there any, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you feel like you needed to mention or? no, not really. mean, I feel like I've spoken for a long time. No, no, no. It's perfect. Perfect. I think a lot of people really love listening to your story and, you know, I find it a bit tricky sometimes with the podcast because, know, I like put it out there and, it's always amazing when people like rate or review it because that's sort of like some physical. you know, way that I can be like, somebody's enjoyed it. But like, sometimes I receive messages and they're like, like I listened to your podcast whilst I was pregnant and like, I've had this outcome and you know, your podcast, like I thought about this because of what I heard in the podcast. And so I just think, yeah, like, imagine the people that are going to listen to this and, you know, be inspired, motivated and courage to, you know, make choices in their own pregnancy to, yeah, ultimately have an experience that they love and love to talk about and love to reflect upon. Because I think that helps in parent, well, I know that helps in parenthood as well. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. think the biggest takeaway I have from my experience is don't let other people dictate your birth journey. You know, I could have given in, I could have just gone with the flow of, going to see the OB because it's free and that's what you know, defense wanted me to do. And definitely in my line of work, we're told a lot of the time to just comply. like, look, maybe defense isn't the right industry for me. like, you know, sometimes I question my allegiance. guess because I feel a bit hippie and a bit holistic and they don't always seem to look at life with the same lens as I do. But I just knew that that's just not, it's not what I wanted. didn't align with me. Maybe also when you're pregnant, you're a bit more mama bear and you're definitely more aware of protecting what's yours. I just didn't want to let anyone push me around. I definitely caused myself more stress, I guess, from a work perspective with trying to receive funding and trying to play the nice guy with getting them on board and supporting me. In the end, I ended up having to distance myself. I stuck by what I believed in. And I think that's the most important thing that I can take away from that. Like there's not any regrets in doing what I thought was best for me and my family. That's, that's perfect. Yeah. A hundred percent exactly what you've just said. Thank you so, so much for sharing your story Asa. That's okay. Thanks for having me.