Homebirth after fetal 'premature atrial contractions' || Hannah's birth of Charlie at home (Australian Capital Territory)

In episode 47, we hear Hannah share her story. Hannah is based in Canberra and shares her hospital birth story and then homebirth story. Honestly, after you hear of everything Hannah endured in both her pregnancies, you’ll be amazed and inspired by her strength to listen to her body and baby, and her mother’s intuition to achieve such an incredible homebirth. 

Connect with me, Elsie, the host :)

www.birthingathome.com.au

@birthingathome_apodcast

birthingathome.apodcast@gmail.com

Links to resources: 

• Core Floor Restore Free Antenatal classes https://coreandfloor.com.au/products/antenatal-classes
• Pre-labour Rupture of Membranes: impatience and risk
• Episiotomy https://www.melaniethemidwife.com/podcasts/the-great-birth-rebellion/episodes/2148567888
• Premature Atrial Contractions https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21700-premature-atrial-contractions

Chapters

• 2:26 Initial thoughts on homebirth
• 6:29 PROM in birth of Lucy
• 32:18 Choosing homebirth for second birth
• 40:26 Premature Atrial Contractions
• 49:00 Trusting the homebirth decision

Transcript

0:03

Hi everyone, welcome to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys. I'm a mental health nurse, the co -creator of Home Birth Victoria, and I'm a Melbourne based doler. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast, or my work, check out www .birthingathome.com .au. And before we begin today, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Nam, Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. In episode 47, we hear Hannah's amazing story. Hannah is based in Canberra and today shares her hospital birth story and then home birth story. Honestly, after you hear everything Hannah enjoyed in both her pregnancies, you'll be amazed and inspired by her strength to listen to her body and baby and her mother's intuition to achieve such an incredible home birth. Enjoy. Hannah to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thank you for being here. Hannah, do you want to start off by telling us a little bit about who you are, where you're located, who's in your family, that kind of Yeah, sure. So I am 29. I have a husband, Dane. We were married back in 2019, right before COVID hit and the bushfires hit. We got really lucky with our wedding date. And then we now have two beautiful kids in our family as well. So we've got Lucy, who's three and a half. She is a massive three -nature. She's a handful, but she's gorgeous. and then we've got our baby, Charlie, who is five months old. Yeah. Amazing. And so Charlie was born at home. He was. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. So I guess like to begin, I always love this because especially when like somebody's had a hospital birth and then found home birth, but pre Lucy, what were your thoughts on home birth? What were your thoughts on like birth at home? Like. I honestly don't think it even crossed my mind. I think it wasn't until I was pregnant and like doing the research into having, you know, labor and birth and everything, I was like, that sounds interesting, but not for me. Like, I wanted the backup of, you know, I don't know, the medical system in case things went wrong, know, all the fear mongering that goes around. So yeah, I was really lucky with Lucy. got into the continuity program because I knew I wanted, as natural as possible and that kind of thing. But yeah, Home Birth wasn't on my radar until after I had her, I think. And then I was like, yeah, I could do Home Birth. yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if we said, but so you're in Canberra. Yes. Like, is there like, I guess, reflecting now on having had Charlie being with you know, in the broader home birth community. Is there like a home birth community in the ACT Canberra? I mean, yeah, there's a little bit of one, I think. Yeah, yeah. There's a Facebook group that's not very active. Okay. And then my beautiful private midwife, Amanda, she has started organizing catch ups for all of her women. So that's been really nice being able to speak to other women because normally in mothers group situations, I'm like very weird compared to other people. Or like people are really shocked when I say I've had a home birth. Yeah. Whereas it was such a beautiful contrast when I caught up with the other women that have had home births. It was just so normal. And you know, everyone was so encouraging and not like, my gosh, you're so brave. yeah. the most. Yeah. My response is always I think women that birth in hospital are brave. Yeah. I mean, every woman is brave no matter which way you go about it. But yeah, it's, feel like the community is slowly growing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I'm not actually sure what the stats are about like home births in, the ACT in the Northern territory. think it's like one point something. And so the highest rates of home birth are in the Northern territory, but like, ironically, I've not had anyone from the Northern Territory on the podcast. Yeah, right. That's so interesting. Yeah, fascinating. Okay, cool. So with, do you want to walk us a little bit through like your journey with Lucy then? Yeah, sure. So I was pregnant during the kind of height of COVID in Canberra. actually, we were pretty lucky. Canberra was a bit of a bubble for a while where we were like the only ones that didn't have it. So we got we got a bit lucky there. But anyway, it's all a bit of a blur what happened when but I was working from home for pretty much my whole pregnancy thanks to COVID, which was the biggest blessing ever because it meant that I could just like go have a quick spew and then come back and keep working. Like it was really comfortable. I just made trackies for my whole pregnancy. So that was really nice. Yeah, I was pretty sick for the first trimester. So yeah, it was really good to just be able to go to bed whenever I needed to. And then I was, you know, doing as much research as I could. was obsessed with, well, I am obsessed with Bea from Core and Flora store. And she like her antenatal classes were amazing. So I felt really prepared leading up to Lucy's birth. So yeah, like I said, I was in the continuity program. Everything was really straightforward. I felt really prepared and really excited for what was coming. And then when labor came, so my waters broke and nothing happened. And in all my research, I don't know how I missed this piece of information. But I never knew that prolonged rupture of membranes was a thing. thought I knew everything that I needed to know and I was ready to go. And then that happened. And I was like, what's happening? Like I, I've never heard of this before, which is strange because the pregnancy with Charlie, everyone was talking about prolonged rupture of membranes. mean, caught me by surprise with Frankie last year as well. I think I would have known that it was a possibility, but when it happened to me, I was Wait a second, I'm not up to date on like any of the information about this. this, I don't think this could happen to me. So I relate. Thank you. Yeah, it's just that, that small thing that can start that cascade of intervention that you woke. I personally wasn't prepared for in that sense. Yeah. So that happened and yeah. contractions didn't come on and the beautiful midwife that I had said, come into the hospital and we'll just have a check, have a chat to you, you know, no pressure. So we didn't bring our bags or anything. just thought we'd pop in and then come home, you know. Pop out. And then. Sorry, how many weeks were you? I was like bang on 40 weeks, I think it was. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. And so how did you going back a tiny bit? How did you into the continuity program. Is that something that you chose to be in or you were just like allocated into? I was really lucky that my sister -in -law was studying midwifery and I worked with two student midwives as well. wow. So they were really great at kind of preparing me and saying these are your options. This is what you can do. So I was really lucky that I knew continuity of care was a thing because I spoke into women who didn't actually really know that they could have done that until it was too late. Cause I don't know about other places in Australia, but in Canberra, the wait list is huge. Like it's really, really hard to get into. so I got really lucky that I got in. yeah, when I saw the GP, when I first felt pregnant, I said, this is what I want to do. So he sent the referral off straight away and I got chosen. So yeah, very blessed. And I also, I should mention as well, one of my friends that I worked with that was a student midwife at the time I asked her to be my student midwife. for my birth. Yeah, well. And so that was really beautiful because she was such a friend to me as well. So it was almost like having a doula with me, like just that extra love. She really cared for me. So that was really special. What do you, apart from mum life, what do you do for work? So I work for a university in administration. okay. That's how you know so many student middle -aged. Yeah, Because so many students end up working at the university. yeah. Cool. So your waters break, like, was it kind of like a trickle or like a, like, how dramatic was it or not dramatic? I was lying in bed and it was like 1am and I woke up and kind of just felt a little bit water trickle and then I stood up and it was like, I had to kind of put my hands there and kind of catch it as I walked into the bathroom. But it wasn't this huge like splash gosh thing but it was definitely not wedding myself like I knew it was. Yeah. And I remember like taking a photo to send my midwife with like the color of it and everything and like it was all looking great. So at that point I stressed. It was like, okay, I'll just, I'll do what they tell you to do and go back to bed and try and rest. Obviously I couldn't sleep because I was so excited. I don't know if any woman can go back to bed and go to sleep because it's so exciting. Well, you know that like something like generally, yeah, like something's going to happen. Like something is happening within your body. yeah. When there's, mean, labor itself has like such an unknown, of course, but like when your break or start leaking and like, labor actually doesn't start. It's kind of like, well, any moment now, like any second is going to be the contraction. Yeah, the suspense. you don't know what a contraction feels like and stuff, really waiting like feeling every niggle and like, is that it? that it? Yeah. And so like 1am ish that happens. And so do you call the hospital then or you go back to sleep or what did you do? No, so I lay in bed until my husband woke up for work because he's a tradie so he gets up really early. So it was probably like 5am ish when I said to him, you know, you're not going to work. Yeah. And then I think I called my midwife maybe at like seven or something and things still hadn't happened. So that's when she said, come in, like have your brekkie and then come in and we'll have a chat. So that's what we did. We went in, had a chat with her. And then it suddenly turned into a doctor coming in and telling me that I needed to be induced and I needed to go on antibiotics straight away and really like, It was like a stressful, she came in with stress. Like it wasn't a, this is normal. This happens to so many women, which I now, you know, in hindsight, it's totally okay. Yeah. But I was being told it wasn't totally okay. My midwife was very great at saying everything's going to be all right. But yeah, this doctor, was not a fun time. I'm like bawling my eyes out thinking, don't want this. Like, this isn't the birth that I wanted. Like what the heck is happening? and then. I'm very much into like, need to make informed decisions. can't, I can't just say yes or no. Like I have to do the research. So I ended up saying, and I think with my midwives kind of pushed to be like, you can do this. saying I need to go home and think about it. Like, I can't, I can't make a decision right now. You can't keep me here. Cause it was like, they were saying you need to stay in here. Like they, I was being made to feel like I wasn't allowed to leave the hospital, which was insane. Anyway, and then I went home and like through my tears, I'm on my laptop, you know, trying to read what to do. then I read the stats about how many women this happens to and how most women go into labor naturally within the 24 to 48 hours. And you you just got to be a bit careful with what you're doing to avoid infection. And it was just like, for goodness sake, why is my labor starting out in such a stressful way when it could be treated so differently? So yeah. That was frustrating. So what did you do? Well, I ended up agreeing to oral antibiotics just to kind of get the doctor off my back. And I think I ended up only taking like one of the tablets when I was meant to take a lot more than that. Like, it was really just so I could leave. we went back in and got the antibiotics and then came back home. And then we just did all the natural stuff that we could do. I was going for walks I remember my husband was like pushing on parts of my ankles, you know, like all the things that they tell you to try and then yeah, they did more naturally. I think it was like 11pm that night. So was nearly 24 hours. Yeah. So thank God, like, I think my my labors and birth story would be very different if I. Yeah. my gosh. But like, wow, that's awesome. Like that you I mean, you shouldn't have to. But like to advocate for yourself and Like, and yeah, I just find it so infuriating that the doctor also could have empowered, given you that knowledge to make your own, you know, informed decision. Like, like that's job. That's literally their job. You shouldn't have to go home and doctor Google yourself to like figure out what the pro cons risks. what the unbiased information is. But that's fantastic, Hannah. my goodness. it totally could have gone. Yeah. So I mean, it does. It does happen like that for so, so many women. it's funny, like, you know, I can say like, yeah, go me for, you know, listening to my intuition and being empowered. But I was shaking and I was crying and you know, it wasn't like, I'm so strong and I can do this. It was like, my gosh, like what do I do? Yeah. It's so hard. It's so hard to say no. Yeah. So I guess that kind of prepared me for my second pregnancy, which I'll get into later. Yeah. So what was that like with Lucy then? So you go into labor at like 11 p Yeah. you know, first time mom, it's so hard. They say you'll know when it's time to come in. I don't know about other women, but like I did not know when it was time to come in. I think it was like maybe three or 4am when it was like, okay, let's go into the hospital because this is hard. And I don't know. I didn't want the baby to just kind of fall out and be like, well, yeah, yeah, Mr. boat, know, So funny saying that because babies well typically do not just fall. That'd be nice. And I remember like where maybe a 10 minute drive from the hospital, but having a contraction in the car is something else. Holy moly. Like being forced to sit in a position that you don't want to be in. that's rough. Yeah. So yeah, we went into the hospital and my contractions kind of slowed down, which they typically do. But my beautiful student midwife, who was my friend, was there and yeah, she got the room set up and Yeah, labor was going well, like it was really painful. I was having a lot of back labor. And it's all a bit of a blur now. But some doctor, I think, or a midwife came in and eventually did like an ultrasound to see what was going on. It turned out that my baby was posterior. yeah, was, yeah, having a lot of back labor and things were progressing very, very slowly, which was really hard. And I really, I was so determined to have a natural birth. And I remember saying a few weeks beforehand, I had a little meeting with my husband and with my sister -in -law, who was also like my birth support person. came as well, which was awesome. And I said to them at the time, the only time I will ever agree to an epidural is if I'm told I'm going to be too tired to push. that was my rule. And then my labor just went for so long that I ended Yeah, being told I was gonna be too tired to push and I totally agreed. But before that had happened, I remember asking for an examination to see how dilated I was because I was just feeling really, you know, confused about where I was at. I remember I was at like four to five centimeters and then I asked for another one about four hours later and I was five to six centimeters and that just broke me that I had been in labor for so long. at that time, In my mind, it meant that I wasn't progressing. I now know with all of the research I've done that I could have gone to 10 centimeters an hour later. You know, it doesn't actually mean a whole lot. But at that point in time, to me, it did mean That's how it felt. Yeah. And it broke me, definitely. And that's when I think that's when I decided to have an epidural. I was so dehydrated through my labor as well. I couldn't stop vomiting. And frustratingly, no one offered me any kind of medication to stop me vomiting. which was now I think that's annoying. Yeah. I was trying to get an IV in me and I was so dehydrated that they ended up having to get like, think literally four different staff tried to get an IV in Wow, to get your vein. Yeah. I was so bruised the next day from all the stabbing of needles. my gosh. It was awful. So awful. my goodness. Yeah. So I ended up having an epidural. And so I got an hour of sleep, which was incredible. I remember The second that I agreed to an epidural, I was so angry. Every contraction I felt after that, it was like, where is it? I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I got a bit of sleep. And then she was born at 8 p So I think my epidural went in at about 2 p because I remember it was Melbourne Cup Day. really? Yeah. My sister -in was sitting there watching the Melbourne Cup race while I'm having a nap. Yeah. I should do. Yeah. And then I ended up having to push for nearly three hours. I think it was two hours and four. Wow. Wow. And frustratingly, the doctor that came in when I was pushing was the same doctor that was trying to scare me into an induction. So she walked in and I was like, no, but she ended up being so lovely. It was like a different person. It was really strange. And she ended up, well, in her words, she let me push for two hours and 40 minutes. And she said that most women would have gone in for a C -section by that point because it was so long. But she said that she could see that I was going to do it. So she let me push my back. That's so bizarre. my gosh, that's so problematic. What the heck? also like, like, I mean, how frustrating that Yeah, initially she's been like this towards you and tried to like fear monkey you into doing what she she would do or like sort of relieves her fears, her anxieties. But now you're in a position where like. I mean, it's very grim, but like in that, like you've got an epidural on board, you're on the bed, you're in the position, you're in all of the optimal things for her. Yeah. For her, it's like a pretty easy situation to like control or to have influence over because like what? You can't just get up from the bed and be like, we'll see you later. don't agree with any of this. You know? When you're in that point, you're very close to being powerless. Yeah. And you're like exhausted, like emotionally, mentally, physically, like. Anyway, so you, so you were allowed to push for that long, which, to be fair is, you know, acknowledging that, yeah, most in most hospital settings, in terms of being allowed, I think women would be blackmailed and fear mongered, to the point of accepting or being coerced into a C -section by then. So, Yeah. How was your pushing and whatnot then with like, obviously that was slow if it took that, if that like it was over that duration, but like, what was your experience of pushing with an epidural on board? I was pretty lucky that I could still feel like I could have had the option to push on my knees. could like, had that feeling that I could hold myself a bit. But because I was vomiting so much, I couldn't be in that position because I would just vomit, which was so frustrating because I wanted to be in that position, especially with a posterior birth. lying on your back is just the worst. And it's so frustrating that I wasn't empowered more to be able to move around. anyway, so yeah, I think I've... they told me that I was doing great at pushing. So I don't know. It's so hard. You don't really feel it. And I didn't know how much I didn't feel it until I had a home birth. Yeah. But yeah, I ended up needing an episiotomy and she had the Kiwi Cup to get her out. But you know, I was happy to agree to that if it was either that or a C section, I'm gonna agree to that. Yeah. Yeah, and luckily my recovery was was fine with that. But yeah, pushing it was it actually went really fast. Like when they told me how long I pushed for, I couldn't believe it. So yeah, I had my beautiful sister in law there and my beautiful student midwife and they were like one leg each and every every push I swear, in my mind, every single push they would encourage me and all I was listening to with their words like it was amazing how much of a difference it can make when you've got people there saying you can do it like yeah. Cause it drowns out your own internal dialogue. If I can't do this, you know. so I was really lucky to have them. I'm actually a really awesome way to, put it. And I, yeah, I wonder sometimes like, like in such a setting where you might not have like midwives there most of the time. And then you also don't have like other supports, like how difficult that must be to. Yeah, be in your own internal, not hell, cause it's not hell, but like that crisis of confidence situation and not have anyone else to sort of challenge that. Like, yeah, that's really beautiful way to put it. And your third stage was that then actively managed? Yes. Yeah. I honestly, I was gonna, yeah. Yeah. That's what I was going to ask actually. I mean, it's okay if you don't remember, I'm just curious. Do you remember like how the epidural, not the epidural, sorry, the episiotomy was presented to Don't think it was an option. think it was a, we're going to do this to get them out because it's been so long and they're starting to look distressed on the CTT. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Honestly, I, I wouldn't have said no at that point. Like it was, it was getting this baby out of me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, like I don't feel trauma around. Yeah. No, no, no. I, I'm glad. I'm glad I am. Yeah. I'm just curious. Yeah. Because it's like quite a significant thing, of course. going into your pregnancy with Charlie, did you have like any fears about like the episiotomy? No. Yeah. Not about the episiotomy. I was a little bit nervous before I did the research into it about whether I would tear. because I'd had an episiotomy, but I found out that that's very unlikely, like that it would cause a tear. So, no, I wasn't worried. think because like, was what, two and a half -ish when I fell pregnant. So I feel like my body had a fair amount of time to recover as well, which was really good. Yeah. Your body's pretty clever. so, so you've had this experience which like, you know, had some things sort of floating about it, but like what prompted you to then look into Humber? That's a really great question and I don't think I even really know the answer to it. think, or actually, I think the main thing was the postpartum side of it. yeah. Because after Lucy was born, I have this really clear image in my mind of my first shower and it looked like a horror movie. There was blood everywhere and it wasn't my shower. you know, I was still hooked up to an IV and it was just the most unpleasant, you know, I feel like all the podcasts I listened to, everyone said your first shower is your most incredible shower that you'll ever have of your life. It was awful. And so that was, yeah, not pleasant. And then we had to go in a shared room. Like I had pictured going through the continuity program. I was going to have this beautiful big room with the double bed and it was going to be heaven. But because I agreed to an epidural, I ended up being not with the continuity program anymore in terms of your postpartum immediate care, guess. I ended up being in a shared room with another couple and I was being woken up by their baby crying and my husband was sleeping on this tiny, tiny little bench seat thing. Like it was not big enough for him. It wouldn't even be big enough for me and I'm tiny. And you know, I was hooked up to a catheter and It was just so unpleasant. It was just not. And I have a lot of food intolerances and stuff, so I couldn't even eat the food at the hospital. Like, it just sucked. I just wanted to eat the food. And you know, the midwives were beautiful and that side of it was great. Like having their care was obviously awesome, especially for a first time mom when you're like, what the hell am I doing? But like, for example, they had cloth, cloth nappies that were like terry nappies. that you would do up with a pin. I was like, we in the 60s? I want to go home to my disposable nappies. continuity area, they have disposable nappies, but in the other area, they didn't. So I just wasn't prepared for my postpartum in hospital that I had. Wow. Yeah, I was like, this sucks. I don't want to do this again. Yeah. That was was a big part of I want a home birth because I want my own bed, want my own fridge, I want my own shower, I want my own towels, know, like, yeah. And I think like, yeah, like get the sense that you know, society's like appreciation of those small little comforts is sort of treated as Well, I just don't think we have like appreciation for your own towel, your own shower. And like in those postpartum moments, hours, days, like it really does make a difference. Because you're the most vulnerable that you're ever going to be. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. need the comforts that you feel like you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And the food intolerances And my gosh, there's so many problems, it's so problematic. Like the fact that, you know, because you had that epidural, like the cascade that it, you know, because they talk about the cascade of intervention and whatnot. But like, I think that, you know, the continuation of that cascade isn't actually spoken about in terms of the postpartum effects, like the catheter, or like, you know, your first shower, you're probably still going to be hooked up to something or Yeah, most likely still going to have that catheter in or yeah, that it kicks you out of bumps you out of that continuity program. And now you're like, just gives me like shivers because like, like if, if you knew that before, like, yeah, maybe, maybe you would still choose that path. But if they actually had like on a, on a piece of paper, like if you choose an epidural, There's all the things that are going to change about your plan. Like anyway, I would choose a home birth a hundred percent after that. So how was your, so did you decide before you were pregnant with Charlie that home birth was going to be your pathway or was it only after you were pregnant? think I was definitely leaning towards home before I fell pregnant and my husband's so lovely. He's just like, whatever you want to do, we'll do that. know, he doesn't care. Whatever makes me happy. beautiful. So it wasn't until I was pregnant that I started looking into like the costs and you know, whether I was eligible for the public home birth system or not. there is a publicly funded home birth program in Canberra. There is. It's quite a small catchment area. and I don't, I'm not in that area. And I think there were maybe a few other reasons why I wasn't eligible, like maybe because of my prolonged rupture of membranes or there was something. don't know. Did you have, what was your blood loss like with Lucy? Do you remember? I don't remember. Yeah, no, cause that's, that's one of their very easy, dismissed criteria for it as well. But yeah. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, we looked into, private midwifery and yeah, found Amanda who was my private midwife and she was absolutely amazing. She is amazing. we it was it honestly it was a tough financial decision for us to make but I just knew in my heart that it was something that I really wanted to do and Charlie we planned for Charlie to be our last kid as well. So I just wanted to kind of end out end it with a bang, you know, like do it the way I want to do it. So yeah, we We chose Amanda, which was awesome. Yeah. No looking back after that really. Yeah. Wow. if there are many private practicing midwives in Canberra, yeah, like, I only looked into maybe three of them. I don't know, like what's, what's a lot and what's not, but yeah. Yeah. I think there's a couple. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. It's definitely, if you want to have a home birth in Canberra, there's definitely enough to, facilitate that I think. Yeah. Yeah. Just pausing here to thank the July sponsor Bimpy and Roy. They describe their products as versatile intimates that adapt to your everyday, but they are also the unofficial outfit of labor and birth for women across Australia. Was anyone else counting their appearance in the Born at Home film? In my first labor and birth, I unexpectedly found myself completely naked, which is fine. But when planning my labor and birth for Frankie, I knew. Bimby and Roy would be my outfit. They are perfect for the sweat and water that labor so often involves and because of their ability to dry quickly, you can wear them comfortably no matter where you are laboring. You can check out all of their beautiful designs yourself at bimbyandroy .com .au. Enjoy. Do you want to walk us through your pregnancy with Charlie then? Sure. So, yeah, we felt pregnant like the first month that we tried, which actually, I think the same happened with Lucy. Maybe it was two months for Lucy, it was a bit like, even when I was pregnant, I was like, I don't know if I'm ready for this. I was very much worried about how we'd cope with two kids just because Lucy was such a bad sleeper from day one. And I still kind of felt like I had a newborn in terms of sleep, like just waking up so much. I was like, I just don't think I can do this with two kids. But we decided, you know, it's now or never. So yeah, I fell pregnant and I am very much a, I need to be in control kind of person. And I'm a Christian and I was driving home from a Bible study one evening and I really felt like I was being told to not find out the gender of the baby, which is something that I would never have decided for myself. Wow. I'm glad to not find out the gender. Yeah, so I went home to my husband and I was like, so this just happened. And, you know, what do you think? And he was like, yeah, whatever you want. Whatever makes you happy. That's awesome. Yeah. But also, yeah, now that's in my court fully in my court. Yeah. So we decided not to find out the gender, which was really a big deal for me in terms of letting go of all control. I felt like it was my way of like, yeah, trusting that things were going to be okay. And I really felt like I was being told that we were going to be looked after and that no matter what happened, we were going to be okay. So that was at the time it was, it felt like a big blessing, but it was also a little bit scary because I was like, why, why do I need to be looked after? Like, what's going to happen? right. Yep. And then that just kind of went in the back of my mind and my pregnancy was great. You know, I was, you know, sick in the first trimester, but it was all going pretty smoothly. And, you know, we were really enjoying the home visits from the private midwife, Amanda. And I was so excited for Lucy to be at the birth. That was also another big, big factor for why I chose a home birth. really thought it was such a beautiful way to introduce siblings to, you know, a baby. And, yeah, and she, she loved it. Like I would prepare her with videos and you know, all the really like nothing. hectic, but you know, the real sounds and yeah, the babies and she loved it. You know, people are so scared of exposing children to this, but it's so natural and normal and beautiful. It doesn't have to be, you know, just a grown up thing. think it's Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really lovely for her to, you know, see that. So yeah. Anyway. And then everything was going along well. And my midwife suggested that I have an appointment with the hospital at 30 weeks just to kind of have an administration appointment to book in in case I needed a transfer. So was like, yeah, sure. Like she said, it's up to you. You don't have to do it if you don't want to. And I was like, no, it's fine. Why not? Yeah, get me on the books just in case. So I went in for the appointment and the midwife was really lovely and everything was going well. And then at the end, she was like, Okay, we'll just have a quick listen to baby's heart. I was like, yeah, sure. Like my midwife had been listening with the Doppler, you know, through the whole pregnancy. And then I lay on the bed and she put the Doppler on and it sounded really weird. and she was like, can you hear that too? And I was like, yeah, that's not how the baby's heart would normally sounds. And then she was like, the Doppler must be broken or they'll let me get another one. Then she put another one on, still sounded the same. and then she kind of looked a bit like, shit. And then she went and got her like, I don't know, the supervisor, the midwife in charge, and she came and had a listen with the third Doppler and it was still making that noise. it was kind of like it sound like? Was it like fast or was normal and then it would go at like half speed and then it would go back to normal and then half speed. It was like we were missing beats. yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. It was really scary to hear. Yeah, absolutely. Especially when it was so out of the blue, Yeah. You've just come in for an administrative flight, little hospital check. Yeah. Wow. So it suddenly turned into, okay, you need to go over to, what's it called? Birth suite. think, I don't know. It's with the more medical life side of it. and you know, you need to go and be seen there. So I was like, what the heck is happening? And, I ended up, I called Amanda or texted Amanda and said, this is what's happening and she was like, I'm coming like stay I'll be with you. Cause Dane, my husband was at work. actually, no, he might've had a day with our daughter, but anyway, for some whatever reason it was better that he didn't come. So she came and stayed the whole day with me, which was so, so lovely. So I ended up having to wait for nearly three hours to be seen, which was so stressful because I'm thinking is their heart gonna stop? Like, I just didn't know, you and you always think the worst. I do anyway. Yeah. And so we finally went in and I got hooked up to a CTG and it was sounding normal. Like nothing seemed wrong. And I was there for so long. Like it was, I want to say it was hours. It felt like a really long time. And also I hadn't eaten. And when you're pregnant and starving, it's just the worst feeling. Right. Yeah. So different to normal hunger. Yeah, yeah. And like I said, with all my food intolerances, it's hard for me to eat at the hospital. my wife ended up being out of find me. I think it was like a cookie or something that I could eat. So that was really cool. Yeah. And then I was kind of getting really irritated. And I just wanted to go home. Like it just seemed like everything was fine. And then the doctor came in and she was like, we're just going to do an ultrasound on the baby just to make sure like we'll have a look at the heart just to see what's going on. Because the CTG is looking okay, but sometimes it's hard to pick up things or whatever. she put the ultrasound on and my mind was thinking I'm over it, the baby's fine, I want to go home. And then as soon as I saw the heart, I saw visually that something was wrong. Because you could see like the valve would kind of be normally and then it would stop and then it would be whoa. And so I just like wanted to cry. Like it was, it was really scary. and you could see the actual like trace. would kind of look like a normal trace and then it would flatline normal trace flatline. so she was then like, okay, we need to urgently get you into, FMU, which is the fetal medicine unit, which is at a different hospital. wow. my gosh. So and by this time, it's like six o 'clock at night. And so obviously, I couldn't, you know, do much else then. So then we had to wait for an appointment there. And that was the longest wait of my life because I'm thinking my baby's gonna die like, yeah, know, their hearts gonna stop. That's what I was thinking because I had no idea what was wrong. Yeah, really awful. And then we got in with FMU like at the end of that week, I think. So it was probably like at least three days before. my gosh. Again. Yeah. So you had to wait that whole time. Yeah. And I remember just going into work and just like, I couldn't concentrate on anything. was like, I literally didn't think about anything else for three days. Were you still like having movements and whatnot of Charlie? Yeah. Yeah, I was. Yeah. So I definitely had that reassurance. Yeah. Yeah. my gosh, that would have been so stressful. Yeah, it was awful. Especially just because it was so out of the blue. Like, yeah, you know, I just feel like, in my mind, if something is wrong, you pick it up at the 20 week scan, where they check for all the things that are wrong. yeah, yeah, yeah. Obviously, that's not reality. But yeah. Wow. So yeah, we had the FMU appointment. And again, like seeing it visually was just so confronting to see the valve not like doing what it was meant to do. then kind of flatlining of the heart rate. And the doctor was too busy to speak to us. So we had to go home and wait for a phone call to actually find out what was going on. So we had the actual ultrasound. The lady that did the ultrasound was so beautiful, so lovely, but she said, and she shouldn't have said this, she said, just be prepared that you're probably gonna have to go up to Sydney for an urgent cardiac appointment. know, like she really hyped it up to be this is really bad. my god. Like, it was just the most awful thing. So poor Amanda is constantly getting phone calls from me, bawling my eyes out. She was so great. But yeah, so we went home and that was the longest wait of my life waiting for the doctor to call. We were told they'd call around six, I think, and they didn't call till about 730. So I was thinking I'm going to go to not knowing, like I just thought they were going to call the next day or whatever, but they did call. And she was lovely. And she said that she thinks that it's something called premature atrial contractions, and it can often appear in the third trimester if it's going to happen. it's usually resolved on its own. So it's not life threatening, and it will probably just go away. Wow. my gosh, like the biggest relief I've never cried so many happy tears in my life. So that was amazing. And yeah, so we needed frequent monitoring because it was still like we think it's this but you know, could always make sense. Yeah. So my midwife had to come every week and listen with a Doppler. I don't really know what we were listening for. guess that it wasn't getting worse. Yeah. So yeah, we just hear what we were hearing where it would kind of sound normal, and then it would go to like a half speed kind of sound and then it go back to normal. And, and then I would also get ultrasounds at FMU every two weeks, I think it was. So yeah, and so I was getting, you know, a lot of treatment that I wasn't expecting. You know, I kind of wanted to just disappear into the distance towards the end of my pregnancy, and I couldn't, had to. get scans and stuff. And you know, it is it was what it was. And I was happy to agree to that to make sure that they were okay. Yeah. And then finally, my midwife was listening and we couldn't hear the strange heartbeat. then we were at ultrasound and it looked great. So we said because often when we had the ultrasound, we would just kind leave without speaking to a doctor. So I'd have to wait for the report and read the report. And so after the ultrasound where it sounded good, we were so excited, like we were ready to celebrate. And then I said, I want to speak to a doctor, like I want to hear that we've got the okay, and that we can kind of put this behind us. So they were like, yeah, sure, you can wait, but it's going to be a big wait. So I was like, that's fine. I'm happy to wait. Because we realized by then that, you know, if you're going to go to hospital for a quick appointment, find the parking spot that has the longest time frame because it's never quick. yeah, totally. So we waited for the doctor for ages and then we finally went in and she says, okay, so the reason I wanted to see you today and I'm like, hang on, I actually wanted to see you. I wanted to see you. Okay. And she said, it's because we're, we're a bit concerned. And I was like, far out. Like what now? And I didn't know, but they were taking measurements of babies. growth every ultrasound. I don't know how I didn't maybe I knew they were doing it, but it just didn't really go on my radar. Like I would have seen them doing it. anyway, just, it just didn't bother me that they were doing Yeah, can see what's coming. And they say, your baby is very small. We're very concerned about their growth. they are what we call, SGA. So my gosh, I'm having a mental blank what that stands for. Small growth. SGA. I've researched it to. Yeah, no, I'll, I'll, hang on. Small gestational, small gestational age. Thank you. Thank you very much. I was going to say inter, interunary and growth restriction, but yeah, small gestational age. and, and then she listed. all of these horrific things that could be causing it. it was like a list of like 20 things. She'd literally written it all down. it was like, it was, it was like the worst things that you could think of that she was telling me that my baby probably has because they're small. And my walls went up. I just felt rage. I felt like she was wrong. I felt like, it's gonna make me upset talking about it because it was so disgusting the way that she handled it. And I felt within my spirit that this is not right, block it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wrong. And so she said, she highly encouraged me to have an amniocentesis. And I said, Why? And she said, so that we can figure out, you know, what's causing this. And I said, why can't we just wait until the baby is born? Why do I have to know now? And she said, well, because people choose to terminate at this point. And keep in mind, I'm like, how pregnant was I then? 35 weeks pregnant? Sorry, what? What? my gosh, what the heck? Yeah. that People literally give birth at that gestation. Yeah. So to tell me that my baby is so sick that I should think about terminating their life at 35 weeks pregnant because they're small, makes me so angry and upset talking about it. I'm still not over it. What the heck? guess like in the context Your birth plan is still to birth at home. Through this, you know, madness, did you start to have doubts at all about home birth or did other people who picked up on, you know, all of these medical professionals that you've now got intruding for good or for better or for worse into your care, did they question your birth plan to birth at home or? Yeah. Big time from the second the heart thing was picked up. I was being told, don't have a home birth, don't have a home birth. And my beautiful midwife said, I'm going to support you no matter what you decide at this point. I'm con I'm comfortable in supporting you at like with a home birth. Yeah. The ultimate ultimately it was, you know, my decision, but yeah, I didn't, I didn't question my home birth decision. at that point, guess when, when you have this sort of insight into the crap that you start to think, well, of course I'm having a flippin home birth now. Like, was get the hell away from me. Stop looking for things that were wrong. That's what my husband kept saying. He was like, they're looking for problems. Like, and he, doesn't do all the research into birth that I do. he, but even could see this isn't okay. way that they're, yeah, anyway. Whoa. I I like, should ask this after, but have you thought about making a complaint to, yeah, I've had few people suggest that to me. And I think, yes, part of me wants to, part of me terribly thinks I can't be bothered. I've got two kids and I've got enough. Honestly, like if it, if it would change someone else's experience and it would be worth it. So I do want to, I don't really know like how to, I'm sure my midwife would help me. like she'd probably be able to help you. I'm, know that she would be able to help you like write a letter and figure out who to send it to. But yeah, obviously, yeah, not something that you have to do right now, but like to have it in your mind to later, like that still counts. But, That's totally unacceptable. That's... Yeah, it was gross. was all disgusting. Yeah. So... So how many weeks? So that's 36 weeks. like 35 weeks at that point. yeah. And so towards the end of that appointment, when I was like, like she kind of wanted to keep talking to me and I was like, we're done. But then I was like, by the way, we're actually here about the baby's heart. Can we talk about that? Like, can you tell me, are we good? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she was like, yeah, it's looking really good, but you need to, we want you to have a CTG just to confirm, like just, just to be sure that the heart's all good. And I was a bit like, okay, sure. And then so went home, spoke to the midwife. cause I'm a bit wary of CTGs. Yeah. everyone should. Yes. But I was like, this is, I felt like this was too important to. miss, you know, like, I really wanted to make sure the heart was okay, especially going into home birth, I wanted to know that my baby was safe, know, of course. So I agreed to the CTG. And that was booked for like, very soon after like a couple of days after I think. And the morning of the CTG, I woke up and felt I shouldn't go, I just felt don't go to this appointment. And I stupidly didn't listen to that. I should have listened to that intuition. And I didn't, and I'm so frustrated that I went to this CTG appointment. So we went to the hospital, found the car park that had the biggest parking time that you could find because we knew every appointment ends up being so much longer than you expect it will be. It was meant to be a 20 minute CTG. It turned into nearly three hours. this is going to make me bit upset talking about this too. It was just one thing after another at this point. And, I, they just kind said, we'll be back in 20 minutes. And then never came back. and then like a midwife came in cause we buzzed the thing. Cause I was so uncomfortable. Cause I didn't know if I was allowed to move and I was sitting in a really awkward position and I just wanted to know if I could move. Like, why am I still here? And so we called someone in and I was like, what's taking so long? And can I like sit up? And she was like, yeah, yeah, sit up. That's fine. And she was like, there's just, what did I call it? Decelerations of the heart. type of deceleration. can't remember the now. She just kind of said it's blah blah blah blah blah and then walked out and I was like huh what? So I got on my phone and I googled the word that she said before I forgot it and then I felt like I shouldn't look into it. Like don't don't read into something because I you know you get into this spiral of like you know I just didn't want to freak myself out or read about things that weren't actually happening. I had put my phone away and just wait. So I waited and eventually a doctor came in and he was like, where, there is a woman actually, she was like, we're very concerned because there's these decelerations of the heart and we wouldn't normally be seeing this unless you were in labor and you're not in labor. So we need to call So I'm going to get like the head doctor to come and speak to you. So then we had to wait for like the head of the obstetrics guy to come and speak to me. And he was like, this is very worrying, you know, this isn't something that we'd want to see. And again, I just felt in my heart, this isn't okay. Like it's really hard to describe because I feel like for someone that hasn't been through this, it might sound like I'm being a bit careless with with my baby and my care, like, it's, really hard to explain how strongly like how convicted I felt. I know. yeah. And so anyway, this doctor said he wanted to speak to FMU, the fetal medicine unit at the other hospital and get their opinion. So he spoke to them and they didn't have the room for me to go and see them for extra scans or whatever. Thank God. Thank God they didn't have. Yeah. and he said, okay, so we want you to come tomorrow, first thing tomorrow for another CTG and then possible delivery. And I'm 35 weeks pregnant and I'm like, what? What do you mean possible delivery? And he's like, like we might need to get the baby out tomorrow. And I was like, what? Like a C -section? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, what about induction? And he was like, we could try induction. And then I'm thinking, If my baby is so sick and so distressed, why are you saying an induction is okay? Because that's going to put extra stress on them. immediately my brain's like, this doesn't make sense. And then he wanted to keep me in for a couple more hours on the CTG. And I was like, why? You've gotten three hours worth. What are a couple more hours going to tell you? And he couldn't really answer me. And I just got the shits. And I was like, get me out of here. And this room is so small. It felt You know, those movies where like someone's in like an insane asylum and it's like a tiny room with like the white walls. That's what I felt like I was in. I was uncomfortable and I just kind of started, I felt like I was going to have a panic attack and I haven't had a panic attack in a very long time, but I just felt like get me out of here. So I literally started taking the machine off because they were like, no, no, no, stay, stay, stay. And I was like, no, no, like get it off me. I'm done. And so this beautiful student midwife ran in and she helped me get it off. And then the doctors left because you know, I was, you know, being irritating for them or something. gosh. What the heck? I don't want another CTG. I don't want any of this. know, and I was I was obviously worried. I was worried for my baby but far out like just the extremes that they go to of like, this is life or death. Death. Everything is life or death. And then midwife came in and she was like, look, How about we book the CTG in for tomorrow? You don't have to turn up if you don't want to, but that way you can go home, you can think about what you want to do. And then the option is there if you do decide to come in. And I was like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. Let's do that. So I booked it in for like 7 a and then got home and spoke to my midwife. And I actually was a little bit sneaky and got the printout of the CTG, which I later found out you're not meant to do. You're not meant to take it home. I didn't know I was doing something wrong. But so I had this huge It's your information. like, take what you want. Yeah. We took it with me this huge three hours. That's brilliant. We laid it out on my lounge room floor and my midwife looked at it and I hope it's okay for me to say this, that she did this, but she took photos of it and she sent it to colleagues of hers to get lots of opinions. So it wasn't just us making this call. She was, she was speaking to Yeah. midwives about this. Totally. Yeah. And everyone that she spoke to said, what are they worried about? Like, yes, there are some slight decelerations. And then we did some more research into what the like what the safe range of decelerations are. And most of these decelerations stayed within that safe range anyway. So to say that my baby needed to be delivered the next day just seemed so extreme, like so crazy. So Instead of going to the CTG appointment the next day, I went to Wollongong. I escaped Canberra. I disappeared. I ran away. My mom and I went for a trip. So I left my husband and my daughter at home. was like, I need to get out of this place. Because also I haven't mentioned, but like I've been researching the hell out of everything that I've been told, you know. Since that heart appointment, I was hardly sleeping. I was up at 2am reading research papers. Cause that's how I feel like I'm in control. I information, then I feel like that's how I can control the situation. So I'm so, so stressed and exhausted by this point. So yeah, we ran away to Wollongong cause I have family up there. And that was really good, but I was kind of too far gone when it came to my stress. And Charlie would have days where he would be active and days where he wouldn't. And that was normal for him. But he was having a non -active day when we were in Wollongong. And so I'm thinking my baby's going to die. Like I'm too stubborn. That's what I was thinking. I'm being too stubborn. I need to just go and, you know, do what's best for him and stop being so stubborn, you know? you know, that was a little bit of a crisis of confidence, guess, but pregnancy wise. And you know, now I look back and I think I wasn't being too stubborn. I was doing exactly what I needed to do for myself. I was I was pretty upset. And so we ended up leaving like very early on the Sunday morning and coming back to Canberra and I went in for a CTG. But because it was a Sunday, it was really quiet in the hospital. And it was mainly just like it was just a few midwives and it was really beautiful. Like it was it didn't feel stressful like it did every other appointment. I got hooked up. I was only hooked up for 20 minutes. The CTG looked perfect and I got to go home and everything was okay. And I should also mention for the first CTG that I had where it was the decelerations, someone, I think it was my midwife suggested that it could just be that the umbilical cord is wrapped around like their shoulder or something. And so when they kind of squeeze their shoulder up to their head, up to their neck, it just kind of puts that pressure on the heart to cause a bit of a deceleration. Yeah. Okay. So there were actually really safe reasons why that could have been happening too. Like there were, Hannah messaged me later to add that Charlie's cord was wrapped around his shoulder, just like the midwives guest, which may explain the decel she spoke about with that CTG. wow. Holy moly. It was a lot. And so from that point, was still having, I agreed to keep having scans at FMU for their growth because I obviously wanted to make sure my baby was okay. But I agreed knowing that I'd be saying no to intervention a lot. their main concern was the, the femur length. It was, it got to the point where it was less than 1 % Wow. Yeah, it was small. It was a very small female like, but you know, my research, was discovering that these measurements, especially female length measurements are so inaccurate. This far along in pregnancy. Yeah. And I started playing around at home with the growth. charts, you can kind of you can find an online version and put in all of the percentages of the measurements and see what comes up with. because I was taking photos of their measurements on the screen so that I could go home and do this myself. They didn't know I was doing this. Yeah. But my my due date, my due date was a bit iffy to begin with, because I had a really weird period before I felt pregnant. It went for a lot longer than normal. Yeah. So I was really unsure about my due date to begin with. But you know, naive me is thinking, it doesn't matter. It's just, know, a due period. doesn't matter when, my due date but when it comes to scans like this, your due date makes a huge difference. Cause that's what they go off for everything. And so I started playing around with this online calculator thing. And if my due date was off by like, I think it was like three days, it brought my, that FEMA length from less than 1 % up to like 25%. Wow. And if it was at 25%, no one would be saying anything. So it could just be that my due date was wrong. You know? wrong. I was really finding a lot of reassurance in that, you know, nothing is absolute, especially this late on in pregnancy. So, and I kept getting like phone calls from the hospital being like, you We really think you shouldn't be having a home birth. You were our case study that we've been discussing this morning. We want you to do this and this and this. it was, and I was like, stop calling me. And I ended up literally for the last maybe three weeks of my pregnancy, not answering any phone calls of numbers that I didn't know because I thought it was going to be the hospital harassing me. And, my goodness. Yeah. And they were, they were checking the, in the scans, they were checking the health of the placenta, like the blood flow. And that was all looking absolutely perfectly normal, but they kept wanting me to come in for more scans for the placenta because it was like they were almost hoping that it would start to fail because there were no real reasons for this, you know? So then I had to start being really mindful about how many scans I'm getting, how often I'm getting them. And I ended up declining one that was specifically for the placenta because I just felt like... I have enough information now to know that my baby is healthy. Maybe my baby's small. I'm small. My husband's not huge. know, made a small like we just have small babies. Yeah. And if there is something wrong with them, I'm going to love them and deal with it. Once they're born. I don't need to know right now. You know, I'm just going to keep growing them and you know, we'll deal with it when the time comes. And my midwife was still saying, I'm going to support you with a home birth if that's what you choose. And so that is what I chose. I think a big part of it was I really didn't want Lucy to miss out because at that point we'd really prepped her for this is where the baby's going to be born. You're going to be there, you know, and it would have been a huge shock and kind of scary for mommy to just disappear to hospital. You know, that would have been a big impact for her, you know, start to being a big sister. yeah. So yeah, so I said no to the hospital for that extra scan. and then how did my labor start? And then I, that's right. And then I went into labor at 39 weeks pregnant. 39. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And well, who knows 39, according to that due date. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At some point. Yeah. Exactly. So I, I was lying in bed and I'd been getting Braxton Hicks a fair bit this pregnancy. And I was lying in bed and then initially was like, this is at like 1 a I'm like, Braxton Hicks, you know, it woke me up. And then Lucy was in our bed with us and I was starting to really have to like breathe through them. And I was like, okay, this is serious. And then it was getting to the point where I was like being too loud and I was worried I was gonna wake them up just with my breathing. So I ended up getting up at about 4 a I think it was. And like I said, Dane gets up for work really early. So he was up at like five and he was in the shower and I ran into the bathroom and I was like, you're not going to work. I was so excited. And I was just so excited that I got there without intervention. You're about to have your home birth. was such a huge achievement. So yeah, my waters didn't break this time like they did last time, which kind of strange, guess. Yeah. But my contract contractions ramped up pretty fast. I remember Dane made me scrambled eggs on toast at like six in the morning. And I ate it it was great. And then I threw up like half an hour later. And I was really, really nervous about throwing up heaps with a home birth because I was so dehydrated last time. But my beautiful midwife said, I've got medication for you. Yeah, yeah. He came and gave me on Danzatron and I took one and didn't throw up again. it was a huge difference. Like being able to keep my fluids down and I was drinking like electrolyte drinks and just it, I just felt so much stronger in myself. absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, so my mom came to look after Lucy. So she was just kind of hanging around. You know, Lucy was allowed to be as involved as she wanted to be. And Lucy loves my mom more than anyone else in the world, think. So that was really nice. so she came at about seven, I think. And then Amanda came a little bit after that, seven thirty or something. man, my contractions ramped up fast this time. Like I feel like with my first labor, it was slow from the get go. Whereas this, it was like, we're on, we're in labor. And Yeah, I was, I had the birth sling. cool. Yeah. Yeah. That was awesome. That was so good. What kind of positions did you do in it? Were you leaning like back or like, how did you use it? I different positions. my main one was I was sitting on the exercise ball and I had this thing kind of around my back and there's like handle ones that you hold onto as well. So I was kind of leaning back in the exercise ball, holding onto that. But I also had a lot of time where I was on my knees, just kind of hanging in it, facing the door. like it was around my, no, hang on. If I was facing the door, it would have been around my belly, like around my boobs, guess. Holding on. But my, I had this huge bruise on my forehead the next day, cause I didn't realize I was just slamming Yeah, that's genius. Yeah, anyone can use it. It's awesome. So that was really good having that. But I didn't realize until I was in labor that I actually had a lot of unresolved trauma around the length of my first labor. So I was freaking out that my labor was taking too long and that it was going to go on for days like Lucy's did. And so that sucked because I I stupidly put in my head 10 30 a is when they're gonna be born. no. My contractions didn't actually ramp up until about 7 a So that's not the time. And so 10 30 passed and I was so mad. What the heck? my goodness. So that was your double agree. Yeah. Don't give yourself a specific time because that's just silly. Yeah. Well, it's kind of like the due dates, right? Like it's better to not focus on like a particular date and definitely not a great idea to specify a time either. Like that is setting yourself up for failure. after every contraction, I would look at my watch and be like, it's 1027. Only 15 more minutes. So ridiculous. Gonna have like a 60 second pushing stage. They'll drop Yeah, they'll drop out. Yeah, the stuff will bring it along. my goodness. Yeah. And so, yeah. And then I had kind of two crisis of confidence moments. Like I had a moment at about 1030 where I was like, they're meant to be born right now. Yeah. And I was like, I can't do this. Like these contractions are insane. Like, yeah, it was, it was the contractions were a lot more intense than I remember the first time around, which is strange considering I had posterior labor last time. you'd think it was different because this baby wasn't posterior. It was just a different kind of contraction. was feeling I guess. sure. Yeah. It was full on. Yeah. And then it was amazing. My body really slowed down after that point. My contractions weren't as close together. They were still intense, but not as intense. it was like, my body just knew that's what I needed. It was amazing. I wonder if the baby was like rotating during that time or something. Because I was really thinking I was getting close to the pushing phase and then it just dialed back, but I wasn't complaining. Like I really needed that time to just like chill. Yeah. that took about an hour and a half where I was sitting on the exercise ball with the berth sling just like in my own head, kind of, yeah, chilling out. But I was, I was feeling really angry at myself. I had so much negative self -talk, which I really didn't think I would have, but it was, it was definitely around the length of labor, which is such a shame. I just didn't know that I had that fear until I was, I guess. And then contractions started to ramp up again. And yeah, I was, I was starting to really struggle again. And then I said prior to being in labor, I don't want to exam to tell me how dilated I am because based on my last labor where it really broke me, that's what killed me. So I was like, I don't want that. But then this labor. Again, it was like, need to know I'm progressing. That's what I really struggled with. It's like, you have no idea if you're like, obviously you are progressing, but you don't have this like very clear sign of like, your baby has now moved to this position or whatever. Yeah. I ended up asking my midwife to check how dilated I was. And she said later, that was the first time she's ever done that for a home birth, which I thought was very interesting. Yeah, well, it's just, it's what I needed. And I don't know. because she said, I don't feel any cervix, I think you're 10 centimeters and I was like, thank God. And then literally, next contraction, I was pushing like, wow. Yeah, so I was, I was at the end of our bed, and we have a gas lift bed. So there's like straps at the end of the bed. Okay, yeah. The gas lift. And I didn't plan this at the time, but I ended up using these straps to like, pull on like, to help. Yeah, With pushing. And then I ended up kind going a bit higher up on the bed and I was holding on to the sheets and then my husband was holding on to my wrists and kind of he was pulling me towards him and I was pulling back like that push pull. Yeah, like tug of war. yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then my midwife would push on my back that really helped that pressure on my back really helped. So like every contraction I'd be like, push on my back. And yeah, I'll never forget how hard a baby's head feels like coming through the birth canal. Holy moly. You don't feel that when you have an epidural. my goodness. Like when I like stroke his head now, I'm like, yeah, that was so hard. Like I still think about it all the time. Memories. Yeah. I mean, in this, in the same like, you know, realm, like also pretty incredible that your body can birth like a head, you know? And like when you see way that a baby's head can shape itself to like fit as well. it's just incredible. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. So, yeah. So I pushed for about 20 minutes. I think it was. so a lot better than my nearly three hours. and I was so excited when I got to the pushing phase, like all crisis of confidence left and I was like, hell yeah. We're on like, let's do this. Like I was so, yeah. were there. I got my confidence back then. It was as intense as pushing a baby out is. It was fun because my daughter was lying on the floor watching going, can see the head. At this point, we didn't know whether it was a boy or a girl. I think she was convinced, Charlie was a girl, she really wanted a sister. She was like, can see her head. My mom was right there. I was a bit worried that I would feel a bit self -conscious being naked and in front of my mom, but I just, didn't care. You know, you're not really thinking about it at that point. And yeah, it was just such a beautiful moment for our family to experience that. yeah, and then he was born and I grabbed him, like my midwife caught him and I grabbed him and I had my hand in between his legs. So I was the first one to know that he was a boy because I could feel it. But I was worried that if I said he was a boy, my daughter be upset and I didn't want to ruin this beautiful moment. So I'm looking at my husband and trying to like communicate telepathically that it's a boy. It didn't work. I had to say it was a boy, but she didn't care. She was so excited just to have a baby, like a baby in the room. Like, I think she said like, I wanted a sister. And then that was it. Like that was the last time she met me. So I was so relieved at her reaction. And when he came He was so chilled out, like he didn't really cry. And so I was like, my gosh, like, is he okay? What's wrong? You know. and my midwife was like, no, he's, he's just a bit stunned. He's okay. Just like blow into his face and that will help him. Yeah. Yeah. And then so he, he did blurt out like a little bit of a cry, but he was just so like chill. And that's just him. Like literally even now that's him. He's just so chill. Yeah, was so lovely just to see that he wasn't traumatized by that experience of birth. Like he was like, yeah, I'm here and everything's OK, you know, and it was such a really nice thing to experience that, you know, and obviously crying babies when they're born is not a bad thing. But I don't know. I just felt really reassured that he was he was OK. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I mean, Hannah, your story could be so, so, so, so, so different. Yeah, it really could. And so just to clarify, you birthed like on land? Yes. Yeah, I tried. I tried the water when I was in labor with Lucy and I hated it. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I don't hear people say that very often, but like my contractions were so much more intense in the water and I was like, I'm not even going to bother because with a pool at home, it's a whole thing. And I was like, no, that's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wow, like I just cannot. Like. I mean, and the fact that you still felt. confidence in yourself and your body and Charlie to birth at home as well. And like with all of that negative talk and self doubt, like, you know, that doubt placed upon you and your body and your baby. I mean, there was so many opportunities for that to go so, so differently. That's just like incredible. And so how big or small was Charlie? So he was so much bigger than they expected, which I knew he would be. He was 3 .20 my gosh. Absolutely ridiculous. So he was actually bigger than my daughter was. What the heck? His legs are beautiful and perfect. They're in proportion to the rest of his body. There is absolutely nothing wrong with him. He's perfect. my goodness. And I just knew he would be. I was so grateful. I know not everyone has this belief, but I was so grateful at the beginning of my pregnancy to feel that I was going to be looked after no matter what. Like, you know, when I was coming home from that Bible study and that really helped because it gave me that extra confidence that I needed, I think. And yeah, and he's great. And so in terms of like cardiac stuff, have you had to do any like follow up about that or? Not really, like my midwife. because I had her looking after me for the first six weeks after he was born, she would listen with the stethoscope. I think she would listen for a little bit longer than the average baby just to make sure. But other than that, no. And I kind of find that a bit strange that the doctors were so concerned that they wanted to bring him into the world. But now that he is in the world, they just kind of wash their hands of me and they don't actually want to follow up and actually make sure that he's okay. That's just strange, I think. It's probably because it's like a different department and the other department is like, she's, she's, she's all right. Yeah. Like it probably, yeah. And to like, it's just, my gosh, it's like a whole other conversation, but that's like, I'm so infuriated for you. and I'm just, I'm just so like in awe of, of you and. Like just so, so incredible. I really hope that it encourages other women to do their own research and to follow like that mom intuition that we have is real. Like it's, it's so real. And I completely understand the fear around the health of your baby. But if, if you feel like something is not okay, even If you're not confident to say no, just say, let's wait, like, let's just go home and think and research and then we'll decide, you know. It's so rare for babies to actually have to be born then and there. And if that is the case, then I think you'll know in your mother's intuition that that is the right thing to do. But man, I feel for women like I just know I'm so grateful that I'm as stubborn as I am and that I'm as into reading research as I am because It could have totally ended differently. And yeah, I'm so happy for my baby that it didn't. Yeah. And just quickly, I think it's important to reflect back on how was your first shower? So good. It so good. It was so long. And my midwife came and dragged my legs for me. was so great. And it wasn't a horror show. There was so much less blood. Yeah. that's so good. The bed was great. Everything was wonderful. That's beautiful. Dane didn't have to sleep on some weird little pretend bed couch situation. That's awesome. We all got to snuggle up as a family in bed the very first night. It was so special. That's so beautiful. Thank you so, so much for sharing such a valuable, I mean, they're all valuable, but like, especially, you know, an example of, Yeah, well, what you've given is so important to have out there in the world so other women can hear just how it happens and how easily, you know, it can happen. So thank you so much. Do you have anything else that you'd like to touch on before we finish or anything that we missed? think so. I guess there's a lot of fear around what's going to happen in the future of home birth at the moment. So I just really encourage people to stay aware and stay active and you know, fight for what you believe in because it's so important, not just for us as moms, but for our babies, the way that they enter the world is, is huge. And you know, we want the best for everyone. So yeah, just staying aware of what's going on. Yeah, absolutely important thing. And yeah, if you're listening and you're not already following Home Birth Australia on Instagram or Facebook or with their newsletter. Definitely do all of that because yeah, we're not going away without a fight. So yeah, thank you so much, Jenna. Thank you, Elsie.