Homebirth after failed epidural & very quick second birth! || Tiahn's birth of Archer at home (Western Australia)

In episode 45, Tiahn in WA shares her story on finding homebirth. After her first birth experience in hospital left her knowing she did not want it to occur like that again, she found homebirth.
Her story also shows the power of knowing others who have birthed at home - in this case, Britt, her cousin who shared her own 4 home births in ep 32.
Tiahn then shares how she also got accepted into the Community midwife program for a birth centre birth in Perth but ultimately, had a super super quick homebirth with baby Archer — so quick she didn’t even have time to take off her shorts!

Connect with me, Elsie, the host :)

www.birthingathome.com.au

@birthingathome_apodcast

birthingathome.apodcast@gmail.com

Links to resources: 

• Benefits of a doula 
  • https://evidencebasedbirth.com/the-evidence-for-doulas/
  • https://open.spotify.com/episode/7A7zQPoOsabVkXeSREYKah?si=d7ac2955d7984976
• Morphine in Labour https://evidencebasedbirth.com/effects-of-iv-opioids-during-labor/

Transcript

0:02

Hi everyone, welcome to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys. I'm a mental health nurse, the co -creator of Home Birth Victoria, and I'm a Melbourne based doula. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast, or my work, check out www.birthingathome .com .au. And before we begin today, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Nam. Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. In episode 45, Tian from Western Australia shares her story on finding home birth. After her first birth experience in hospital left her knowing she didn't want it to occur like that again, she found home Her story also shows the pair of knowing others who have birthed at home. In this case, Britt, her cousin who shared her own four home births in episode 32. Tiaan then shares how she also got accepted into the community midwife program for a birth center birth in Perth, but ultimately had a super, super quick home birth with baby Archa. So quick, she didn't even have time to take her shorts off. Enjoy. Welcome Tiaan to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Thanks for having me. Thank you for being here. To begin, Tian, do you want to give a bit of background about who you are, who's in your family, where you're located, that kind of thing? Yes, so I'm Tian. I'm almost 24. I am from Perth. I have two beautiful little babies. I have a almost four -year -old girl and a just -turned -four -month -old little boy and I'm married to my husband. Yeah, amazing. And so today you're going to share with us a little bit of your backstory with your first baby being born in hospital. And then I guess the journey to finding home birth for your littlest second baby. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah. I guess, like going back, especially so you were Howard, did you say your eldest is three or four? So she's almost four. So I was 19 when I had her. I was really young. Yep. And so growing up, did you have like much idea about like pregnancy or birth or like the options that you might have or anything like that? Not really, no. So like I come from a family where my mum specifically is so par medical. Everything's medical. The second you got a slight fever, it's here's the panadol, it's straight dot ED. Like that's how I was brought up. So I just kind of followed suit. and you know, when I felt pregnant with my daughter, was like, okay, so let's go see the GP then let's go to the public nearest public hospital. And yeah, that's kind of just how it went. Followed what I had always kind of. Yeah. And do you remember if you knew about birthing at home, about home birth, private midwifery, that kind of stuff? Yeah, so I didn't really know much about it, but I knew that it was a thing that you could do. So my cousin has had four home births. Wow. So I did know of it, but it wasn't really kind of considered for myself. I was just kind of like, you get pregnant and you go to the hospital. That's what you do. Yeah. Wait, hang on. I'm just remembering. you, Britt's cousin? Yeah. that's so awesome. I was like, wait, I'm remembering this. Yeah. Okay. Wow. that's so cool. Yeah. yeah. Okay. So it wasn't like a completely totally foreign idea. Yeah, not overly, but it was more just kind of like, yeah, like she birthed the babies at home, cool, okay. Like there was never more thought into it, unfortunately. Yeah. Do you want to walk us a little bit through your pregnancy then with what's your almost four year olds name? Leila. Leila. Do you want to walk through the pregnancy experience with Leila a little bit? Yeah. So I went to the closest public hospital that was just in my catchment. And man, it's like, it's actually known for not the best pregnancy, birth, postpartum care. So it wasn't great and it was just like no continuity of care. There's no like, MGP or anything. It's just you walk into clinic, you get seen who, whoever you're seen by and whoever's at your birth is whoever's on that night sort of thing. I did have a few moments of like not being listened to and stuff that kind of made me weary, but it was like, this is your catchment. You have no choice. Like as far as I knew that's what it was. Um, yeah. So it was a pretty standard pregnancy. didn't have anything come up. Um, but just not the best antenatal care really. Yeah. Being like a younger, like people say that I was a young mum, but I was 24 when I had, yeah, 20, I think I was 24 when I had Murphy. Um, but like being, you know, 1920, do you feel like people treated you differently? Oh, a hundred percent. Like I was always just like, this teenager that got pregnant, like, you know, it was, and, oh, you just get spoken down to. think a lot of women get spoken down to in like the hospital system, but especially being so young. Um, and you always get the questions of like, is the father still around? there's like, do you have support? Like you're the father that I'm like, is, thanks. Like, okay. Yeah. geez, all right. yeah, you do. It happens, but I mean, skin, I kind of just brushed it off, whatever. Yeah. It's still, it's still not okay. in terms of like tests and scans and all of that jazz, did you kind of just like go along with like whatever they told you to do? Just went along with everything. didn't question anything. which yeah, I have a lot of, obviously no judgment, whatever, but I do have a lot of guilt, with that, with her, because obviously I did it so different the next time around. and I wish I, yeah, I wish I did things so different the first time, but you can't take me back. No, Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it's, it's not helpful to dwell on. And did you do like any kind of education or like anything like that? Yeah, a little bit. I had Britt as my daughter with Layla's birth as well. Yeah. But Brittany was still training. So it was sort of like a, I guess it was like a learning experience for both of us really. And I think, yeah, I think she's not, from what I gather, she's not too sort of happy with how things went birth with Leila. But the way I see it is like she was still an extra layer of support for me and gave me so much education prior and a lot of education to hubby as well. So I had her for that. think if I didn't have her, I wouldn't have had any education, like nothing like that. So I think her truly for that. think she's so like a dollar is so worth it. yeah, that's that's where my education came in was from her. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, I'm not sure like what the actual stats are, but I do know that just, yeah, having that additional support person, improves your outcomes just simply, I guess, in the sense of like that extra layer of support, that extra kind of body that's sort of like present as well. Yeah. Yeah. And so when did you go into labor with Leila? So I was 39 weeks on the dot, but it was 8pm at night, so I ended up having her the next day, 39 and 1. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, not quite too deep. Yeah. And how did labor I was out for dinner in the city with my parents. So for reference, the hospital's like maybe 30, 40 minutes away from the city. So yeah, was 8 p .m. at night. got like a pain, but you know when like, I don't know if you experienced it, but when you're pregnant and like you need to go to the toilet, like for a wee, you get like a bit of a cramp. So I was like. I just need to go to the toilet. Like it's totally fine. And I went to the toilet and then it came back and I was like, just got another one. Like, I don't think that was it. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So I was kind of in a bit of denial. I called Brittany and I was like, here's what's happening. What do you think? And she's like, yeah, it sounds like it could be early labor, but just kind of, you know, keep me updated. Yeah. All right. Whatever. You know, we, sat and finished our dinner. My father decided he needed another beer, so we had to sit there through contractions and let him finish his beer. That was great. I've held that against him forever. Yeah, I see. And then we had to go pick my sister up from her friend's house and then finally back home. And it was all a mission. But I still was kind of like, I don't know. probably just breast nicks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially because you were probably told that like first day in mom, like you'll probably go over like, so at this point you're kind of like, what's happening? Yeah, was like, nothing. Yeah. But then it did kind of ramp up and hubby was working night shifts at the time as well. So I remember calling him at like, I think it was probably about 10, no, 10 o 'clock and being like, I'm pretty sure I'm in labor, but like, don't panic. finish your shift, you'll be fine, then come." he made it. Yeah, about 11 o 'clock, I think, we went back to my place, packed my bag because I hadn't even packed my bag yet. Brittany met us at our house. I think I labored at home for a couple hours and I think I got to the hospital around sort of like 1 a .m. Yeah. And do remember that sort of, you know, if car ride to the hospital is, you know, 35, 40 minutes. What was that trip like? Do you remember? so the, the, from my house to the hospital was probably about 15. But it was like, yeah, but from like dinner to picking up my sister, to going to her parents, going to her parents to my house. was like, the heck is going on? Um, I definitely remember being like really uncomfortable in the car. Um, To be completely honest, it's all a bit of a blur. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so going into the hospital, you have no continuity of care, which is pretty much most women's experience in Australia, sadly. And so it's just total luck of the draw of who you're going to be allocated as your midwife for the evening. you want to walk us through that a little bit then? Yeah. So a lot of it is a blur. So this is really going to be patchy. But I, yeah, I just remember like rocking up and going in like, you know, the assessment area. And they were kind of like, yeah, you're in labor, but like, it's probably going to be a while. Just kind of chill out here for a bit. I can't remember how, cause I remember they did do like a VA, but I can't remember what it was. And yeah, just, went in black. I remember saying to Britt and my husband, no epidural. Like I do not want that. Yeah. I ended up begging for a shot of morphine because they came in and sort of explained the sort of like pain relief and cause I was in the assessment area, I couldn't have the gas in it yet. So they were like, we can really offer you. Yeah. They're like, well, we can give you is like some panadol I should have morphine. Or morphine. morphine, I guess. Like, all right. It wasn't my options. what the heck? my God. I know. So that's what I had. And yeah, it didn't actually do anything. So looking back, like one, I'm annoyed that I had it in the first place, but I'm even more annoyed that I had it and it still didn't do anything. Yeah. Yeah. And then I got moved to Bersweet at some point in time. I have no idea when I was on. Gas in the air. Um, Britt was trying to like get me to move in different positions and remember going in like the tiny little bath. Like it's not like a, like a birthing bath. It's this tiny little one you have at your house sort of thing. Um, I remember being in there and Britt was like putting water, like the shower on my back. Um, while hubby was sort of like leaning over so I could lean on him, like every contraction I had, just remember like squeezing 11 daylights out of him. Um, yeah. but I hated being in the water. I don't know, it was like a sensory thing. I hated it. So we got out. I remember begging for an epidural, absolutely begging. And Britt just kept reminding me. She's like, remember you didn't want it. Of course, you can change your mind, of course, but that's what I'm here for, to remind you what you wanted. And that's when we tried a few different positions and stuff, but by the end, I was just like, I can't do it anymore. Give me the damn thing. So I got Um, I think I got it too late or something cause it didn't work. Well, it worked for like an hour and then nothing just stopped working. Um, but they wouldn't listen to me when I was saying that it wasn't working. Um, so I felt absolutely everything, but it was like the care that they were giving me was as if I felt nothing. Yeah. Yeah. So that was pretty, um, but, I was in labor for like 10 hours. I for 41 minutes, I think. I remember saying I needed to push. And so the OB came and checked on me and was like, no, you're not ready to push. I've got to go do something. I'll be back. He said, I remember he said to the midwives, or she, yeah, she, I'll be back in half an hour to an hour to check on her. If anything happens, let me know. And then she kind of left the room and the midwives were like, you're not ready, honey. You like just wait it out. And then they walked out the you're a cake. Like you're baking a cake. It's not ready yet. Just hold on. needs more time. And so just to clarify, so you've, you've never met these midwives really before. You've never met this obstetrician person before. yeah. And so because you've accepted the epidural, even though it's not working, were you still made to like be on the bed and whatnot? Yeah. So I was still on my back on the bed. because yeah, they, yeah, there was like, I remember saying like, can feel everything. Like this is so painful. obviously like, I'm like scratching my husband and every contraction and everything. And they're just, yeah, no one was kind of believing me. but yeah, at that point I was like, I need to push. And they were like saying no. And they walked out the room. And I remember Brittlyn Tova and she was like, if you feel like you need to push, just push. Like, don't worry about that. I'm like, just do it. Yeah. So I did, I started pushing. remember the midwife like came running in and was like, she's pushing! And like ran back out. Everyone called the OB, came running back in. Oh my It was a whole like big fiasco like, good for a a lady push her baby out. Yeah, yeah. What the heck? Oh my gosh. so I know. So 41 minutes or so of pushing you said. 41, 40 minutes of pushing. Yeah. But she, so she was posterior. Nobody knew. Yeah. I don't know how nobody knew. Especially with like the continuous monitoring that they're doing, how they do not pick up on that. Yeah. So anyway, she was posterior. So she got stuck, so they say. And they ended up, so she was three times failed vacuum. the vacuum popped off her head. The OB flung back and hit the wall behind her. Like it was, it was so insane. and also because she was posterior and they didn't know they were suctioning like the front of her head rather than the back. So we're actually very lucky that nothing super bad happened. my goodness. What the heck? What a drama. I born with like, I know she was born with a bunch of scabs on her head and she still She has scars, but her hair covers it now and they're like, it's faded. But yeah, massive, but we're lucky nothing worse. Yeah. But yeah. And then they, so three times failed vacuum. So then they went to forceps and apesiotomy. No consent for the apesiotomy, nothing. I just remember like laying there and feeling someone just cut into me. I explained this. They thought that you had the ebbing drill of course. Exactly. Yeah. So, I just remember I explained like a, like a lucky band, like, you know, it's it's trash. And then if you were to cut a lucky band, ping, that's what I felt. And then anyway, they got her out with that and then stitched me up. No warning, nothing. Cause again, they thought I couldn't feel anything. I felt every slip and thread. It was, yeah. Wow. And what a great initiation to motherhood. Yeah, welcome. So you just went through that now, take your baby home. Yeah. And suck it up because you've got a healthy baby, you're alive. Holy moly. That's terrible. I mean, that's worse than terrible. That's like, what the heck? And so did you have like any education around the birth of the placenta and all of Yes, I remember like Brittany explaining it to us beforehand. just, yeah, just kind of like following suit of what I was supposed to do, listening to the doctors, whatever, I just kind of did whatever they said. So I got the injection and they pushed on my belly and out it came. But I don't even, I could be wrong because it's all a blurb. I don't even remember them asking like to do anything I It just happened. know, was like, I'm just push in your belly. Yep. Yep. It's absolutely outrageous. yeah. Holy moly. What was your postpartum like in like physical healing from, you know, having an episiotomy and yeah, it was, man, like when I got up, I remember that after, she was born and like getting up, you know, you're like first shower. or not. Like I remember just being so weak and so like dizzy and in pain. I could barely stand and they were just like, off you go. I remember like, they got me a wheelchair and I was like being weird in it. I remember saying to them like, well, you've all been lovely. Also, thought, but, you've all been lovely, but I hope I never see you ever again. You said that. Brilliant. Whoopsies, sorry. because I'm a bit too honest. my God. told you, sweared the moment it comes out. But yeah, and then I was in hospital for five days. So it was a long time, but it was horrible. My mum would come and visit me and she would be changing my bed sheets. I would be sitting in like holes of blood and no one had come in to changed them, check on me. I remember hitting the buzzer because I needed to go to the toilet and like nobody came for like 40 minutes. So I just decided to get there myself. And I remember like standing up and like blood just boring. And like I literally like left a puddle on the floor, like waddled my way to the toilet. Like it was just horrible. I had to stay there for five days because Layla got put in the special care nursery. Absolutely no reason. So yeah, was horrible. What was their concern with special care? So they said that she had, she had like a slight fever apparently. So they did like a bunch of tests on her and stuff. thing got jabbed so many times. and, well not jabbed, pricked. and yeah, and she, like nothing came back. Absolutely nothing was wrong. She was slightly jaundice, but they didn't need to use like light therapy or anything. So like, why was she in there? Like you, you just wanted to monitor her. Yeah. It was horrible and being away from her and like, it was, it was just rubbish. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was in 2021? 2020. 2020. Yeah. Okay. Um, what month was she born? August. August. Cool. Murphy was born in, uh, well, I almost said June, uh, but April, 2020. Um, and so at that time, cause here in Melbourne, COVID was pretty atrocious. And I just remember like in April, I was, you know, I had a home birth with Murphy and I was so scared that that'd make me go to the hospital if I didn't, you know, birth before 42 weeks or whatever. But like over in what was happening like with COVID during that time. Do you remember like, especially with visitors and things like that? Cause at some point you guys just didn't want to want to be a part of Eastern Australia. like, the border closed We break away. Yeah. yeah, no, we had like a two person limit to visitors at a time. which to be honest was kind of great. Yeah. I have a massive family, so I'm kind of glad they put that into place. just before I gave birth, was you, like so many women were actually birthing alone. You weren't even allowed to have your husband in there when you gave birth, which is just horrendous. I cannot even fathom it. But the rules had just been lifted. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. so I was, was petrified of like what was going to happen, what rules were going to be in place, but I did get lucky. was allowed to have, obviously like hubby and Brit there. but Dan, my husband, he did have to leave the hospital every night at eight o'clock. I just remember sobbing, like sobbing every single time he left and like begging the midwives to let him stay. And they were just like, sorry, eight o'clock off you go, like get black and white. was it. I would, yeah, I'd just be like holding a 19, holding this brand new baby, sobbing my eyes out every night for five nights. And even on the fifth night we were there, only reason we went home is I begged. Like I was like, I just want to go home. I've been here for five days. My, well, he wasn't my husband at the time, but you know, like, hubby is not allowed to stay with me. Like, just want to go home. You're like captive. My goodness. So you've had this first experience and knowing that, you know, almost four years later that you would have a home birth. Like at what point, you know, you've, you've said to the midwives, thanks, but no thanks. like at what point did you, did you think, the home birth would the modular care or, you know, place that you would give birth next time. Yeah. honestly, I don't know when it first kind of came into my mind. I remember sort of like dabbling into getting like private health insurance and going to a private hospital, which I now would have been even worse probably. it's a common thing that I hear. Yeah. It is, yeah. But I remember dabbling in that, but, you know, we were obviously like being young, we just couldn't afford the private health insurance. And Harvey was still at uni, so working part time and studying. And yet we were just like, no, we can't afford it. And like, now I look back at that and I'm like, thank goodness we didn't do that. So yeah, I think I just might have started looking into like other avenues maybe. That's how it probably came about. And then obviously knowing did it like it wasn't like super unfamiliar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I remember saying, yeah, sorry, you go, you go, I was like, remember saying, at some point, like, if I ever have another baby, like, I'm not stepping into a damn hospital, like, there's no way in hell I'm through that again. So it'll be a home birth. Yeah. But then I did change my mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Just pausing here to thank the July sponsor, Bimby and Roy. They describe their products as versatile intimates that adapt to your everyday, but they are also the unofficial outfit of labor and birth for women across Australia. Was anyone else counting their appearance in the Born at Home film? In my first labor and birth, I unexpectedly found myself completely naked, which is fine. But when planning my labor and birth for Frankie, I knew Bimby and Roy would be my outfit. They are perfect for the sweat and water that labor so often involves. And because of their ability to dry quickly, you can wear them comfortably no matter where you're laboring. You can check out all of their beautiful designs yourself at bimpyandroy .com .au. Enjoy. In between, you know, over that three and a half ish, almost four ish years, did you, you know, engage in different sort of education around pregnancy and birth or you know, motherhood. I threw myself into research. literally like, it is all I have talked about for four years. yeah, like I, I just deep dive everything, motherhood, pregnancy, birth, raising babies, raising toddlers, like the whole shebang. Like, Ask me anything. I've got it. You're the type of friend that everybody needs to have. And so - but no, no one appreciates it. Like, cause I don't really have many people that are sort of quite like-minded. So it's like, I have all this information I want to blurt out to everyone and no one wants to hear it. Yeah, exactly. And now you'll just be the crazy, crazy woman that's had a horny birth and like, she's lost the plot. I get called crazy all the time. my goodness. And so you get pregnant with your second baby. What's their name? Archer. Archer. So you get pregnant with Archer. And so what's your journey like then? So you had in mind home birth, but then you changed. Yeah. So I chickened out initially. And I ended up, so I went and saw my GP got a referral and I said to go to the family birth center at King Ed Ease. Yeah. Yeah. To go there. And then I also got a referral put into like another public hospital. Cause was like, if I don't get accepted into the family birth center, I'm not going back to that same hospital. So two referrals, I did get accepted into the family birth center. But then Britt was like, you know, of CMP, so Community Midwifery Program that we have here. She said, you know, those midwives can support you at the birth center as well. If, you know, she's like, they're a little bit more like minded. If you do want to go down that route. So I was like, yeah, for sure. Like I'll do it. So I applied to them and the family birth center and just kind of thought whoever I get accepted with, I'll go with. I got accepted by Nice. Yeah, I know I was so excited. was like, I thought I was going get accepted by none. So then, yeah, I ended up choosing CNP because I liked that I had the choice. I was like, look, if I change my mind and do want to have birth, like at least I'll be with CNP. can make that choice. Yeah. So yeah, glad I did. Yeah. And so At what point did you switch? How many weeks roughly did you change your mind about birth center, birth home birth? Oh man, I don't know. To be honest, I kept flipping. Yeah. So I was just like, yeah. So I decided to go with CMP. I think I was about 14, 15 weeks when I went with them. And then, which I am so lucky I actually got into them at that point because I have since found out that women need to be applying with the second they find out they're pregnant. Yeah, well. Because it's like in such demand. So I was really lucky. Yeah. But yeah, I kept flip -flopping. And I think around 20 weeks -ish, my amazing CMP midwife was like, look. You don't seem set. So I'm going to put you down as a home birth. Yeah. Because if I get you accepted for home birth, you can change your mind and birth at the family birth center. But if I get you accepted for FBC, you can't change your mind and birth at home. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, she did that. And I just kept flip -flopping and then just kind of the more I dove, dived, dove, dived into the research. Yeah. I, that's kind of like, I don't even think of the word. like solidified my decision. The more and more I looked into it and the more things I listened to and read up on and experiences and whatnot, just like, I just kept going more and more and more down the home birth route. But even when I gave birth, so like I gave birth at 39 and even up to that point, like I technically hadn't told my midwife. that I was doing at home birth. Like it was just like, I don't know. But like I knew in my mind I wanted it, but I was just so scared to like, you know, confirm it in case I changed. Yeah, commit. Yeah. My midwife said to me, she's like, you have, you sound like you have commitment problems. There's nothing I can do to help you. It's on you, Yeah. I'm so curious. And I think that would be helpful for like people that listen, do you remember what some of like those big questions that you perhaps had in your mind that, you hadn't, you know, were getting in the way of that full commitment? Like, were you worried about something you did that the impact of like that first birth experience, like sort of seep into, you know, worries for the second birth? I like kind of the opposite. think because the first birth was so horrible, I was like, I want, like I definitely know I don't want that. And I definitely know it's gonna be better if I have it at home. So that kind of was like definitely helpful. But my biggest concerns were like, one, if I am in so much pain, because obviously the first birth was so horrendous. if I'm in so much pain and I can't handle it anymore, what do I do then? Like, you know, I don't want to be stuck. But my midwife was like, we'll just transfer you. Like, if you really can't handle it, we'll transfer you. then, but then she was like, but if you say to me, I can't do it anymore, I'm not transferring you because you're about to give birth. So she's like, if you do get to that point, we're staying home. So yeah, that was kind of my main concern. And obviously The second one kind of came from a lot of outside ways. You know, it was like, how could you have a home birth? Like you, why would you risk your baby like that? You know, whatever. and I just remember like, it just put doubts into my brain. Like no matter how much I researched or whatever, was like, yeah, like what if something happens, you know? but I remember my midwife being like, you, you know, you, have everything at home. Yeah. Pretty much that we need if something was to go wrong. Like the only thing we don't have at home is like, like blood for a blood transfusion. So then you'd go to hospital. Yeah. Pretty much everything is at home. Yeah. Yeah. But that are, yeah. And obviously the stats, like it just shows it like, sure. had a horrible birth in hospital, but it's not going to be like that at home. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's very, undervalued, their continuity, it still like blows my mind that people. people just ex, like I just, blows my mind that not every hospital has a continuity. like, that should just be the standard. I don't know why there has to be special programs to be in. Like, my gosh, you've won the draw to have the same midwife. Like that should just be the basic level. Like everyone should have that. yeah, absolutely. It's totally agree. It just, cannot. Well, you know, as, when I was a student midwife, like that was, you know, we'd rock off into these, women's rooms and like, we'd never met them before. don't know what, what, anything about them. You know, you're like struggling to like, remember their name, like their partner's name, if you've another family member in there, like you don't, you don't And you're supposed to be supporting. Right. Yeah. Right. It's, it's so insane. Yeah, I just, yeah. and like your... like I think the stars like clearly aligned for you to be able to have the ability or have, you know, because more like a lot of women that have such a horrible experience, especially in the public system, then think, well, I'll go through the private system because surely that's better. And you know, they say like continuity with an obstetrician and whatnot, but it's just not the same thing. The obstetricians are not on the same. there's, guess, you know, there are some great obstetricians out there. do acknowledge that, but, you know, like they're not on the same commitment levels to the outcome. yeah, anyway, I could go on, like, Awesome. But I find a lot of women who do that and then they go to the private sector, you know, thinking it's going to better and then they come out from it and they say it was better. I feel like a lot of that is because they go on and have a C -section. So they didn't go through a lot of the trauma. So they view it as a better birth than the first time around because there wasn't all that long length of trauma and said, they were like, hey, here's a problem, go have a C -section. sure, it minimized the trauma, but the outcome and the level of care. Yeah, yeah. I do find that as well. Yeah. So you decide to, you know, I guess you're flip -flopping between home birth and like, you know, other options and whatnot. Where does Dan fit into this? Like what's his, what's his thoughts on what all this flip -flopping? Yeah. So he basically said the same as my midwife. Like he was like, bro, just make a decision. Like it's not that hard. do it. And he kept saying, like, you keep flipping back to home, but I that's clearly what you want. Like, just settle on that. And was like, is it? I don't know. So he was. Yeah. Initially, when I brought up home birth, he was more like, I'd be more comfortable if you're at the family birth center. Yeah. Which I think did play a part in me wanting to go to the family birth center. So, OK, well, that's where he's comfortable. But as time went on, like the more. he doesn't research, he just doesn't have the attention span for it. But the more research I showed him and I made him listen to a few podcasts and things like that, he was like so on board. Like if anything, he was probably the one that's like, just do a home birth. Like it's going to be great. it. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, he had a big change of, change of heart sort of thing. And now he's like the biggest home birth advocate. It's so great. I love Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And so if you were in the Family Birth Center, do you know if you would have been able to have Leila I actually don't know the answer. I wonder. But so I guess in terms of planning a possible home birth, did you hope to have her present? I was in two minds about it as clearly I am with everything. She's very full on and very high emotional needs with us. So I was a little concerned how that would play out. How was going to be able to be in my birth zone with her there, how is she going to support me? She's more clingy to him than she is to me. So was like, how is he going to support me? Is he going to have to go off with her? I'm by myself, whatever. That's kind of where I was worried about. But at the same time, I was like, I do want her there. I think it would be really nice. if it's at nighttime, there's no way I'm uprooting her from her sleep and taking her elsewhere. Like, so I kind of had a mindset of like, see what happens. if I labor in the day, I said to my mom, can you take her if it's daytime, you have her if it's during the night, like mum will be here. and if she wakes Mum can attempt to help with her. She probably wouldn't have been able to cause she would have wanted me or Dan, but attempt at least just have another set of hands there. Just kind of, yeah, take it as it comes sort of thing. But I ended up going into labor in the morning and babe came quicker than expected. she was, she was here for it, which was actually really amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so did you do any extra? educational, like did you decline anything in this, in that pregnancy? Yeah, yeah. So I declined pretty much everything. I had, what did I have? So because I was with the community midwifery practice, which is government funded, there is like a few sort of things you have to, abide by, guess. So yeah, did have to have a few blood tests to kind of check levels and things. Yeah, but everything else was declined, like all the swabs, all the sort of like GTT, everything like that, all the VACs, that was all declined. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. And was Brit gonna be your doula this time around as Yeah, yeah, she was. Yeah, she was amazing. Wow. Amazing. That's so cool. I like raved to everybody about her. Yeah, yeah. So you were going to have Dan, possibly Layla, Britt, and then eventually the two midwives. I don't know. I'm on my fingers, everybody, but I don't know if I'm keeping up to what I'm on. And then possibly your mom as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I promised I won't go into it, but my mom had cancer for quite a while, she is she's all good now. when she. Leading forward. When she was struggling, I said to her, like, if you get through this, I promise you can be my next best baby. I had to stick to that. Yeah, yeah. So that's where mom came into play. Yeah. Yeah. She loved that. But then it ended up being like, you know, if I am in labor during the day, like, I'm so sorry, but can you take Layla? Like, it's so sweet. Yeah. She was pretty hot. She was so heartbreaking about that. Yeah. So that was the, yeah, there was quite a few people, I guess that would have been here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so labor started, did you say 39 and five or something? 39 and five. Yep. Yep. And what was your signs of labor? so, man, like to be honest, this time around, didn't really, I feel like I didn't have many signs that labor was nearing. Yeah. yeah, like, I mean, lost my mucus plug ish, like there was no like color to it or anything. So I was like, eh, nah. means nothing. Yeah. You know, and then, um, but I did have, so from about 32 weeks onwards, I was having like so many like kind of like false, false label or whatever you want to call it. Um, like there was twice where I was literally having contractions, like every sort of like five minutes for the whole day. Wow. And then like, I thought it was like 34 weeks. I remember getting really upset because I was like, I'm not going to be allowed to have a home birth. Yeah. 34 weeks like that make me go to the hospital. Like it seemed like it was going to happen, but then everything would just stop. And yeah, I never told him I didn't tell my midwife about it until it was like finished. And she was like, well, next time maybe call me. But yeah, so I think that was my body doing all of its work. pretty incredible. Yeah, it was really awesome actually. But yeah, rather than having a few sort of like a day or two of signs, I think it was kind of getting ready for a while, which is why I probably didn't notice anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to walk us through that labor birth experience then? Yeah. So I wish I had a super detailed long story, but it happened so quickly. So I worked very I was actually up all night with insomnia and I just could not sleep. I wasn't in any pain or anything. I just couldn't sleep. I was wide awake. I finally fell back to sleep at, think it was like 4 a .m. and then I woke up at 5 .30 with a sharp pain in my back and I remember being like, ooh, okay, that kind of hurts. Is that something? But, eh. I just try to go back to sleep, like sleep it off. Um, but then it came 10 minutes later again. And I was like, that kind of seems like a 10 ish minute break. Like, we'll see, sleep it off. Um, and then like I took the time and then like I got another one 10 minutes later. So I was like, okay, like something's going on clearly coming like every 10 minutes. Um, and then, um, It was like, I got up on the exercise ball and I was like, let's see if I can kind of try and manage the pain. hubby was in my toddler's room asleep, because he wakes up a million times a night. So he was dead to the world in there. so I remember like six o 'clock came around and things that I kind of started feeling like the actual contractions this time around. So I was like, yeah, this is labor. So I went and woke him up at six. Of course she woke up with him. So they both came into our room and I was just kind of on the exercise ball, like, you know, whatever. I was just kind of thinking like, okay, here's the start of like a really long. Yeah. guess not really long. First was 10 hours. It wouldn't be that long, but yeah, it's still a while. Yeah. It's not like a, well, for most, it's not like a joy ride that you're about to like embark on. Strenuous. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was just taking an e -mail. I messaged Brittany and was like, hey, like this is what's happening. I'm pretty sure it's labor. But I'm, I don't know. I think that was at five thirty. So before I woke up. Yeah. And yeah, she was like, deaf sounds like early labor. Keep me updated. She gave me like a few things that I can do in the meantime. And she was like, you know, early labor can go for a few hours. It can go for a day just take it easy, do these things. I'm here if you need me, let me know when you want me to come over. So that was around 5 .30 ish and then, yeah, six, woke up my husband and Layla. I was just kind of laboring in our room, like on the exercise ball, talking through things with Layla. Side note, I did prep Layla a little bit. We watched some like home birth stuff on YouTube. Yeah, cool. So, yeah, and she loved it, like absolutely loved it. She's such a mini me, I just love it. So she, like, I remember explaining to her, like, do you hear those noises the mummy is making? Like, that's what helps bring her baby out. So then when I was making these noises, like, I remember a hobby explaining to her, like, do you remember what mummy said? Like, the noises, that's what mummy's doing. It's going to help bring Archer out. So kind of like explained things to her. Yeah. And so she Totally cool. Like she would like watch me do my contraction and kind of be a bit like, what's going on. but then I would stop and I would like talk to her in the breaks. and she'd be like, okay, I think it's back to normal. And then it's like, I've got another contraction. Okay. but then she doesn't, she got bored. Like, so she just wandered out of the room. was like, I'm done. Yeah. It's pretty much a lot of the same over a period of time. I can understand. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, so then I think it was around 6.30, 6 .40, I messaged my midwife and I was like, hey, contractions are kind of like six, seven, eight minutes apart. So pretty sure I'm in labor, but stay tuned sort of thing. And she messaged back, she's like, yay, exciting. And then that was it. Cause she was obviously going to wait for me to tell her when I'm ready or when water's broken or whatever. Yeah. Layla was complaining she's hungry. So I sent Dan out of the room. was like, go get a breakfast. Like we'll be here for a while. Yeah. Message my mom told her like, can you come pick Layla up? Mom calls me. She's like, are you serious? Like, is this actually happening? Like, yeah. And she's like, OK, I'll be there. be there now. I'm just getting ready now. be there. I remember saying like, don't rush. Like this was like six thirty ish in the morning. I'm like, don't rush. Take your time. We'll be I'm happy for her to be here while I'm laboring. It's fine. Mum's like, don't be silly, we'll come. Anyway, so she gets here at about like 7.10 ish. My water's broke at like 7. I was still just on the exercise ball. felt light. I was just breathing through the contractions. Like they were pretty darn painful, but like the breathing kind of got me through. I remember feeling like I wanted to go in the shower and have the water on my back, but because my parents were coming to pick Layla up, I was like, I don't want to be butt naked when they walk in. Like, I'll just wait until they grab her and then I'll go. And then I didn't want to use my 10s until after the shower. So kind of had like timing of things that I kind of wanted. So I was just like on the exercise ball until mom and dad came. And so when they left, I would start all of that. But anyway, waters broke at seven ish while I was on the exercise ball. just remember having like, like contractions were kind of like a few minutes apart, but this one time it was like contraction, like a five second break and then massive contraction. then boom, water broke. And I also felt like a drop, like I think like Archa must've literally like dropped straight down as the water broke. Yeah. So I was like, okay. So I texted my midwife, Hey, water broke, which resulted in a missed call from her. Yeah. which I didn't know because I remember having this like massive intense contraction and just ditching my phone. Yeah. hubby came running in the room cause he was still with Layla. He came running and he's like, what can I do to help you? Like, what do you need? And I was like, no, just go be with Layla. Like I'm totally fine. Just go with her once she's left the house, then focus on Yeah. He's like, are you sure? Like, what about if I set up the birth pool? And I was like, yeah, that's probably a good idea. Maybe we can do that. We had nothing set up. Yeah. So he goes to get the birth pool. I don't know what was happening in the meantime. I was just in my room somewhere along the lines. I messaged Brittany saying water's broken. And I remember her being like, okay, let me know when you want me to come. Yeah. And it's funny because you can go, if you look on the messages, you kind of see like me explaining a lot to Britt and then all of a sudden it's like, what a break, come now. Like, it's just so sharp and like kind of rude, but not intentionally just because I was like pre -focused. Yeah. Literally giving And Britt was laughing like, yeah, literally having a baby. But me and Britt had a laugh about it after because she's like, that should have been my sign, like that your text messages got different. Yeah. So anyway, she was like, good, I'm getting in the car, I'm coming now. But she does live about like, I think maybe like 20, 30 minutes away. Yeah. So sevenish, water broke, texted the people I needed to text. And then I just got this like massive urge to go on my hands and knees on the floor. Wow. Yeah. Again, looking back, I knew that that was a sign, the time I was just like, you know, going through the gist of it, like, whatever. So it was on my hands and knees. think I remember having a massive contraction and feeling like, like kind of feeling, I don't know if it's too graphic, but feeling myself sort of like dilate. It felt like I was going all the way, but then close shot again. Like that's kind of what I felt like. But I just remember being like, I don't know. I'm probably just dilating a little. I can probably feel myself. I don't know what the heck I was thinking. and so I thought nothing of it again. And then mom and dad walked in the door. I'm, I'm on my hands and knees. Mom sees me. Keep in mind I'm fully clothed shorts on everything because like, hello, mom and dad were coming over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. mom sees me she says from her perspective, she was like, my God, like she looks like she's literally about to have a baby. So mom, mom just comes straight in and starts like rubbing my back and it was like, yeah. So it was like in the break of a contraction. So I let her do it, but then this massive contraction came over and I just remember yelling, don't touch me. And so mom just like took a step back. And Literally this massive contraction came, his head came out and I just, and hubby was literally in the other room with Layla. Yeah. Just mom in there. you got your pants on. Yeah. Like my shorts were still on. I'm like, cause I just didn't think it was happening that quick. Like this is like just past 7am. Like I woke up at 5, 5 .30. Um, so and it was like one massive contraction, head came out, his head was actually hanging in my shorts. And I just remember yelling, there's a head, I'm having a baby. Like just to kind of get down in the room. Like wait, what is broke like five minutes ago? Like what is happening? So he comes like running in my like does not know what to do. He's like, I am not supposed to be here for this. I do not want a part of this. I him kind of like standing at the door, like awkwardly facing the other way. Anyway, Dan comes running in, Layla comes running in and then so his head was hanging in my shorts. And then I'm going to say maybe like 30 seconds to a minute later, there was another contraction. The rest of his body just came flying out. Mum just grabbed him and like shame it wasn't Dan, but it just happened so quick that like Dan was still like running in the door. So mum just did what had to be done. Just grabbed him. Yeah. And just Dan, so he like came running trying to like pull my shorts to the side to get him the rope. So Dan's trying to do that while mum's like grabbing him. And I just remember going, So mum's like, I've got him, I've got him. Mum was like in awe but like also panicked. Yeah, like what am I meant to do? my god. So I just remember feeling like, I just felt so calm. Like I was not worried at all. Like I just felt so chill and so calm. And, but I remembered like when mum grabbed him, I could feel like the, umbilical cord like kind of swinging so I could feel that even though mum was standing behind me that she was sort of like moving him around. Yeah. and so I remember just being like, mom, don't move the cord pass him through my shorts. Cause I remember my midwife gave me like the spill. I remember her saying like, so you probably won't give birth before we get there, but if you do, just make sure you don't pull on the umbilical cord. That's just the thing you got to watch out for. So I remember just saying to mum, just don't pull on the cord, gentle, pull him, pass him under, like through my shorts. So Dan's holding my shorts open and he gets like passed through me. And I just sat on the floor and just held him, I know. And I remember, yeah, they passed him through and I grabbed him and then I remember hearing my dad. So obviously Brittany being my daughter and my cousin, dad obviously had a number. So I just remember hearing dad go, Suri, call Brittany. And I remember hearing Brittany on the phone just being like, it's okay, stay calm. And dad's like, what do we have to do? What needs to be done? And she's like, it's okay, stay calm. Is Tiana okay? And I'm like, I'm fine. I'm just chilling over here. I'm good. That's freaking out. I'm fine. And she's like, okay, is the baby okay? Is he crying? Is he all good? Is mom and Bob fine? And my dad's like, yeah, I think so. Tiana's here, we're okay. Did he cry? I'm like, yeah, I just like piped up and I was like, maybe someone could the midwife. That'd probably be good. yes. So she said Dan called my midwife and was like, hey, there's a baby out. Yeah. I was like, what the heck? because I literally had called her like 10ish minutes prior. I had texted her 10ish minutes prior saying my water broke. So she was like, what the heck? And only like, Well, it would have been like half an hour to 45 minutes prior where I was like, hey, pretty sure I'm in labor. Luckily she lives like a straightaway. So she just came straight over. Yeah. So she was over within a few minutes. Brittany got here about maybe five or 10 minutes after. And then the second midwife, think maybe like 20, 30 minutes after that. It was so insane. Like, absolutely. I just didn't know it was happening. Yeah. But I mean, it sounds like nobody else really did either. Like, that is the funniest part. Like, hey, Siri. Oh my goodness. It's it's engraved in my brain. Yeah. Hey, sorry, call Brittany. Yeah, yeah. Do you have any photos of like any of it? honestly, this is like the one thing I'm like, I don't love about this birth was the photos, like someone was taking them. think maybe, I don't know, maybe dad or maybe Brittany once she got here. I don't know. Someone took photos, but they're just so because it just happened so quick. There's none of these beautiful birth space photos that I thought I was gonna get. Yeah, there's hardly anything, but I have a couple. I've got one really funny photo of my mom standing there with her hands kind of out, and she's like, you can see the shock on her face, but the excitement at the same time, and she's just covered in red and white, and she's got a fancy little top on, and she's just covered. It's so funny. Yeah, I love it. Brilliant. my goodness. Yeah. And when was the placenta born? So my timeline's all a bit wacky because I was like, just kind of, you know, so chill and relaxed. But I think it was about maybe like 30, 40 minutes it came. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My midwife was just like, when she rocked up, like that's the other thing I love. Like obviously being a home birth midwife, she was so chill. Like it wasn't like, Oh my God, this baby's been born emergency. Like, you know, it was just like, cool, baby's here. Did he cry when he came out? Yep. Cool. All right. Let's go do your placental. It was so good. So she was just kind of like, like, do you feel like your placenta is going to come? Like, do you have any like more contractions or anything? And I was like, no, like I'm not really feeling anything. And she was like, all right, like maybe if we go sit on the toilet, that might just kind of encourage it out. Cause I think being like, again, government funded, they do have a rule that your placenta to be out within a certain amount of time. I've transferred. she was kind of, yeah, trying to be like, let's do this as like physiological as we can, but also like, let's not transfer you. So, yeah, just sat on the toilet and I just kind of like did a push and like a tug myself. and it just came out. Holy, holy. What the heck? I think I was like holding my breath. That's brilliant. Here's like time of birth. think we had it as like 712, but like we actually don't really have any clue what time it was somewhere between 710 and 715. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Wow. And in terms of like tearing with fast birth after having had an episiotomy, did you tear? Yeah. So I did have like a really tiny, tiny graze. top somewhere. And then I had a very small second degree tear. But I didn't even look at it. I didn't even know what it looked like. But midwife said that it was like really, really small. It's just like classed as a second degree because I think she said it just went slightly into muscle or something. OK, something like that. So but didn't require any stitches or anything with Layla's birth. had 15 stitches. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Holy And like comparing your initial and you know, actual postpartum journeys with both of them, thoughts, comments. my goodness. Like, so my parents were so not on board with a home birth. Yeah. Like, as I said before, like, mum's very medical. Dad, you know, he's a dad. doesn't really care either way. you know, so. they were pretty against it. but they were like, okay, you know, you do you. but because they were accidentally here for it, they got to see all the sort of like first few hours postpartum as well. And they're like literally like convinced that it's like the only option because of how amazing it was postpartum. Yeah. And that's what I rave about too. Postpartum is like, like it's just like, you cannot even compare it to being in the hospital. Like, The midwives were here and they just kind of like, we just jumped into bed after birth, the placenta jumped into bed. We were all just laying there. Like it was me, Dan, Bubby and Layla, we were just chilling, relaxing, letting Archer be on my chest, feed if he needs to, whatever. Like just was not even touched until a few hours later. Like he wasn't even weighed until a few hours later. Like, It was just so bliss. Like you're not interrupted. Everything is like you're comfortable. You're at home. You're just not disturbed. Like, it was just amazing. Like, yeah. And obviously having Brittany there as well, like she, the way I can describe it, I say this to everyone, like the only way can describe it, having a daughter is having a little pregnancy, birth, postpartum fairy that potters around. and does what needs to be done without interrupting or getting in the way of your birth space. Like this little fairy that just, and I say to everyone, like I just, I was laying there in the, know, like newborn bliss, like birth bubble still with my little family. And all of a sudden my water bottle was full and in my hand. My homeopathics were like getting tipped into my mouth or like my heat pack was getting put back on. without, do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, obviously being a Duelist, totally get what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. It's That's such a sweet way to put it as well. Like, yeah. And I think people just don't. Yeah, it's all the little things. It's the little things that make a difference. Like anybody can refill a water bottle and anyone can reheat a heat pack and anybody can like get you food or whatever. But like, it also, like you shouldn't have to, like you've just, you've just literally given birth to human life. Like if there's a time that like you deserve all of that, it's then absolutely. And then, and and disruption or I don't think I've said that right. The, you know, the lack of disruption. like that's, yeah. mean, including like with breastfeeding and stuff, like it's essential. Yeah, absolutely. It was a game changer for me. Like. And even like my midwives as well, the way, like obviously they had to weigh him. They had to check him. They had to check me, but it was all done like a few hours later. Like it was just like, yeah, have your moment. Like you just gave birth and not only did you just give birth, you just gave birth in 15 minutes. yeah, take some time. Chill. Yeah. And then like, yeah, after, so my midwife, I think she stayed until like 12 -ish or something. And she left and it was like, Brittany helped me have a shower while the midwife was here, sorry, helped me have a shower. and like, just walked out to the lounge room. Like I just sat on the couch with my mom, my dad, my husband, two, two children now. yeah, like it was just so peaceful and relaxed. Like my mom was like, I cannot believe you just gave birth. Like you do not look like you've just gone through a birth and they rocked up in the birth suite when I had my first, daughter. So they, were literally there like kind of straight away. Yeah. which I do at them for now. but they were there, so they saw everything. They saw me post birth with her and they've seen it this time around. And like, honestly, they're just like mind blown at the difference. Yeah. Yeah. So even people like, yeah, like people who weren't really for it and now like, holy moly, that's the only way to go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine if everybody could be like a fly on the wall kind of Yeah. I know. I think everyone would home bath if you could see what it was like. If you actually, yeah, not what the media says and, you know, all of these horrible fear mongering stories. yeah. Holy moly. What an amazing, amazing story. I wish there was also like a little camera on the wall because I think that that would just be such a beautiful. scene to watch unfold, but also very hilarious. Yeah, absolutely. I wish it was recorded. Yeah. wow. Thank you so much for sharing all of that, Tian. Do you have like anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to add or anything like don't think so. Hey, like I just think it's so important to like, thank you so much for starting this, for even having me on here to share. I just think it's so important. love what you're doing and like getting the home birth stories out there is such a big, it has such a big impact because people don't get to hear it often. And like the more we speak about it, the more people are going to hear, the more normalised it's going to be. you hopefully it makes an impact and people start having, not going to say, you know, as they start having better births, like better experiences. like, you know, launches you into motherhood, each motherhood journey, like so differently, like a birth that you don't have to recover from in the sense of, you know, like having go through your trauma story and like how that, you know, impacts you your whole life. And, know, your parenthood journey as well. yeah, like why not? Why would you not like try and have the heart? But anyway, thank you so, so much. No, thank you.