2x homebirths & 2x freebirths + pelvic congestion syndrome || Rosie's birth of Reuben (2014), Levi (2016), Eliza (2018) & Jethro (2020) at home (Queensland)

Episode 43 is shared by Rosie, mum to 4 babies all  born at home, doula and also the co-owner of Earthy Birth who was the June podcast sponsor!

Rosie talks us through her 2 home births and 2 free births and the challenges she encountered. We chat about being able to trust yourself, her reasoning for birthing at home and other experiences like gender disappointment, the shock of a quick birth, the imapact of pelvic congestion syndrome, and post natal depression. 

Connect with me, Elsie, the host :)

www.birthingathome.com.au

@birthingathome_apodcast

birthingathome.apodcast@gmail.com


Resources: 

• Read about Rosie's births here on her blog https://www.therosiedoula.com.au/blog
• Watch Rosie's birth videos on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@rosieparton7210/videos

Chapters

• 21:53 Supportive Partners
• 38:23 Welcoming a new baby
• 39:18 Children's Reactions and Placenta Consumption
• 48:35 Pelvic Congestion Syndrome
• 1:08:20 Postpartum Depression and Bonding
• 1:14:02 Gratitude for Home Birth

Transcript

0:03

Hi everyone, welcome to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys. I'm a mental health nurse, the co -creator of Home Birth Victoria, and I'm a Melbourne based doler. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast, or my work, check out www.birthingathome .com .au. And before we begin today, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Nam, Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. Episode 43 is shared by Rosie, mum to four babies, all born at home, a doula and also the co -owner of Earthy Birth, who was the June podcast sponsor. Rosie talks us through her two home births and two free births and the challenges she encountered. We chat about being able to trust yourself, her reasoning for birthing at home and other experiences like gender disappointment, the shock of a quick birth, the impact of pelvic congestion syndrome and postnatal depression. Thanks to Rosie for being so open and sharing her experiences. And if you're listening and you're not driving, please take 20 seconds to rate or review the podcast on Apple or Spotify. It really, really helps the podcast and it's a super easy way to support me, get the podcast out there. Enjoy. Welcome Rosie to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for being here. Rosie, do you want to give a bit of a background about who you are, where you're located, who's in your family? Yeah, sure. I'm a mom of four. I have a 10 year old, eight year old, six year old and four year old. And, we live on the sunshine coast and I'm married and yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Anything else you wanted to know? Yeah. And so you are the, do you call yourself the creator or co -creator of Earthy Birth? Yeah. Look, it, I mean, my husband and I own it together, but let's, let's be honest. I'm not. Yeah. You're the one pulling it. Yeah. Nice. He's the logic behind my creative ideas and I'm like, how about we do this? And he's like, maybe a little bit unrealistic. Yeah. And so we were just touching on that just before we began recording. So you started Earthy Birth after your first four kids. Yeah. Yep. So I had all my four kids at home and I remember Googling when I was pregnant, like nice colored birth pools or white birth pools and there was nothing, there was only blue ones. And so yeah, this little seed of an idea was born way back then and it didn't really flourish until I had sort of finished my birthing journeys and I now I'm a doula so I'm working with birthing women often and yeah, a lot of them have said to me, do you know of any like nice colored birth pools? And I'm like, not yet, but. Yeah, just hold that thought. Yeah, that's cool. yeah, I know like for mine, they were just like the, I think they were both their lab bascine or whatever, and they're just blue, which kind of like, I mean, I wasn't too fussed about it, but it kind of meets the. Like when you go into a hospital setting, there's often like a blue kind of theme happening, whether it's the curtains or, you know, stuff. It just scrubs. Yeah. Yeah. It feels very medical, doesn't it? It does. Yeah. Yeah. but so you had four home births. So that's pretty amazing. I guess going all the way back pre your eldest, who said is 10, like How did you find home birth? Like what is your journey to choosing home birth? Well, I was mainstream as they come before I met my husband and he comes from a lot more natural minded sort of crunchy family. And he, I mean, his mum didn't have home birth, but she had a lot of friends who did. And it was kind of like a bit more normal in their circles. And I don't know. I think my husband was just like, Hey, do you want to think about the idea of home birthing. I know we talked about it before we even had kids. And I just looked at the statistics. I just looked into like where's safest and where has the best outcomes. And I don't know, I guess I'm pretty open minded. And I just went, yeah, okay, that's the safest and best option. I'll just do that. Like it wasn't really a big decision or anything. It was just whatever made the most sense. And yeah, that made the most sense. So I'm really thankful to my husband for sort of bringing that up. And, and making it an option because otherwise I wouldn't have even considered it really. Yeah. Wow. So he was born in a hospital. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So, wow, that's pretty incredible. You don't really hear that. Yeah. We were just sort of on the beginning, like when we got together, we were on the beginning of our journey of both wanting to sort of live a more natural lifestyle and do things a natural way. And yeah, I really wanted a natural birth and just knew that that was the most likely way to achieve it. Yeah. And a hundred percent is. And so then you've gone on to have four home births. Yeah. So my first two were with midwives and then my second two were free births without a midwife. my gosh. Wow. that's so cool. And all on the Sun Train coast? Yeah. Yeah. We were actually living in a shed for the first two. Just renting on like some friend's property, living in a shed. So my two oldest boys were born in a shed and then. We bought our first home and my daughter and my third boy were born in that house. Yeah. Yeah. my goodness. So what was your pregnancy like with your first? It was really easy, like barely sick, no complications, textbook pregnancy, very low risk. I did all of the tests, like the gestational diabetes and ultrasounds and all of that because that's what you do. And that's what midwife told me to do. So yeah, that was fine. Pregnancy was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. And being, you know, obviously it was a little while ago now, but like, do you remember, especially because like, you know, home birth. was a sort of new idea, I guess. And as a first time mom, do you remember having to like overcome anything in particular? I feel like, you know, a lot of first time moms, no matter what path they choose in terms of model of care, like they're more easily swayed generally to have those extra tests because there, you know, is this kind of question of like, well, can my body actually do it? Like, is it like actually going to be okay? Do you remember having like any of those kind of thoughts or? I didn't actually, I just had this real, I don't know if it was naive or, or, if it was actually really wise, but I just had this trust in my body. I knew that it would be fine. I knew that it would grow in birth my baby and I just, I don't know. I just didn't have that fear and anxiety that a lot of people have. I'm not sure why, but I'm really thankful for it. But I was, it was very lonely doing a home birth because no one else around me had done a home birth. There weren't these amazing Facebook groups that we have now for support. There was no one, like I didn't know anyone who had had a home birth except for like some friends who lived away in another state. So. yeah, it was, it was a bit lonely. It was a little bit, I felt a bit unsupported by some of the people around me. I got some comments like, you know, you know how dangerous that is. And, are you sure that that's what you want to do? You're putting a baby's life at risk, those kinds of things, which I know came from a, a well -meaning place because they cared about me and my baby, but yeah, a bit unsupported. Yeah. So I think. the home birth space now is amazing because there are so many people doing it and because there's so much support around it's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Well, even, I saw this morning, the home birth Australia, survey about the professional indemnity insurance issue. they have like 1700, responses already like to that survey and the survey has only been active for a couple of days. So like, like I I don't even think there's like 1700 people that give birth in Hathorne every year. So that's, yeah, that's amazing. I think, yeah, social media has been really powerful in connecting, you know, us as a minority, like less than 1 % usually. So yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And sorry, what was your 10 year old's name? Ruben. Ruben. And so what was your labor, first labor and birth experience like with Ruben? It was really straightforward. Contractions woke me up at like 5am on his due date and I labored really like, I don't know, very textbook like spaced out gradually becoming stronger, closer together. And then overnight, it really intensified. I called the midwife at about, I called her at like 10 p and she didn't, my husband called her and she didn't really believe that I was in labor because he was so calm and normally the husbands are a bit more panicked. I don't call the partners. And so she was like, yeah, no, first time mum, it'll be a while. And he called her back at like maybe four in the morning and she heard me vocalizing in the background and she was like, okay, yeah, I'll come now. Yeah, I just labored all through the night just leaning over a bean bag and vocalizing quite a lot and squeezing some stress balls. And then we had issues with the hot water as most people do at home birth. Yeah. Yeah, the hot water, the birth pool wasn't ready until like probably 6am. So yeah, I finally got in the pool that sent me straight into transition. when I was saying, that was when I started saying we're not ever having any more kids. Did you have to take into account like anything in terms of like the shed set up? Not really. Like we had it pretty much decked out as a house inside. So yeah, we even had like a little fireplace in there. So it was nice and warm. And yeah, so the plan was for me to like my husband to be in the pool with me and catch the baby. But it worked out that I was like grabbing onto his hands outside the pool and wouldn't let go. So. Yeah, I remember the feeling of the baby crowning and like the head coming out and then this relief, but then also knowing I had to push the shoulders out and then I was feeling this little slippery baby come out and no one really caught him because it was like, no one was really prepared for him to come out right then. So he kind of floated off into the water for a bit. And then my midwife like passed in between my legs and I picked him up and I hadn't found out the gender. So that was. A beautiful surprise seeing that we had a little boy. And yeah, it was just such a beautiful moment. Like it was really surreal. Like I felt like I was in a dream and I wasn't really feeling a lot of emotions because it was just so bizarre to be holding this little baby that, like, whoa, there's a baby here now. Just came out of your body. Like you just, like you grew that and now it's like come out and yeah. I mean, it is pretty crazy that we can do that. It is. It's wild. Yeah. And so in attendance were like your midwives and your husband. Yeah. So my primary midwife was there. She didn't call the secondary midwife in time, so she didn't make it until after the baby was born. but he sort of got there and helped with the placenta and everything. And yeah, placenta birth was really straightforward, just sort of like squatted off the couch and popped into a bowl. And yeah, it was, it was all really textbook, like no, No complications, no tearing, 12 hours of labor, like literally very standard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so after that experience with Ruben, did that sort of just solidify your thought process around like, will it make sense to birth at home if I'm having such a straightforward experience? Yeah, for sure. It was, it really gave me, I guess, a lot of trust, more trust in my body. I just went, you know, I can do it. I've done it and I'll do it again. Yeah. It was a lot more painful than I expected. It was, yeah, a lot more mentally challenging as well. But I didn't learn, I had not learned any techniques at all during that pregnancy. I just went into it with this blind trust going, yep, my body will know what to do. And it did. Yeah. But yeah, I learned a lot in my second pregnancy about breathing techniques and relaxation and that kind of stuff that really changed a lot for me in my second birth. So looking back, I can see that my first was a lot more painful and probably a lot longer than it needed to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder that myself as well for, like, especially my second birth last year, I feel like I was so busy with life that I forgot that I needed to sort of you know, practice some like breathing skills or something. And I wonder what impact that would have had if I had done that. But yeah, so with in Ruben's pregnancy, you kind of just like had the midwife appointments, but no other sort of education. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. And so then you have an eight year old? Yes, Levi. Levi. And what was Levi's pregnancy like? It was the same pretty much like no complications, real textbook, except that I started developing a really bad pain in my vulva, which I spent a long time trying to figure out what it was and seeing different specialists and no one could really diagnose it. But I ended up figuring out on my own that it's pelvic congestion syndrome, which is like varicose veins in the pelvis. And I had them down my leg as well, which were like achy, but not too bad. But the one in my vulva and in my, the ones in my pelvis were just really, really painful. So I had to spend, I mean, I had to wear these awful compression stockings and this like compression undies basically. My husband called it my chastity belt. my goodness. But yeah, it was just so sore and swollen. So I had to spend a lot of time off my feet, which was difficult because I had a toddler. But yeah, that was, and you know, living in a shed with compression stockings through summer was, was fun, but that was the only real complication that came up, but it was, yeah, it was quite painful. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, it sounds painful. And is that something that like subsided? after the pregnancy or did it return again for your subsequent pregnancies as well? It returned for all the pregnancies, but not in between. So it was, and it got worse with each pregnancy, which was really, really challenging. And it also got worse the bigger I got in pregnancy. So yeah, towards the end of my fourth, it was, it was a struggle. but yes, I, I actually in my second pregnancy, I ended up switching care providers at 36 weeks because some things happened with my midwife that caused me to lose trust with her. And I just knew that I couldn't birth with her in my space. And so I discontinued my care with her, but I didn't really have another plan. So I emailed all the midwives that I could find on the Sunshine Coast and all of them were completely booked out. Yep. And so I was there at 36 weeks with no midwife and no idea what I was going to do. And I wasn't at that stage confident enough to free birth. Like I'd heard of free birth, but I kind of went, that's crazy. Like who would ever do that? Yeah. So yeah, it wasn't 37 weeks. I got an email back from a midwife who had already turned me down. And she said, I just wanted to check and see if you had found someone. Cause if not, I could probably squeeze you in. I'd, you know, I'd hate to think that there's a woman out there that wants a home birth that can't have one. And so, yeah, she managed to squeeze me in at 37 weeks and she taught me these breathing and relaxation techniques that absolutely changed my second birth so much from my first. Whoa. Wow. That's amazing. And so how many weeks was Reuben born at roughly? At 40 exactly. 40. Yeah. And Levi? 40 exactly. my gosh. So, so you, she, you've, she re -contacted you like at 37 -ish weeks. Yeah. And then you had like three weeks with her and then you popped out a baby. My gosh, that's a pretty good job for her. Like that's pretty, pretty easy. wow. That would have been so stressful though, but like it's so. So important. And I think like, why I know that, you know, given the difficulties that you already have accessing private midwifery care. especially in terms of like, you know, if you want a home birth, generally you got to be in pretty quick because like, otherwise, yeah, you risk missing out. But then it doesn't, you know, it doesn't guarantee that you're going to gel with the midwife. And just because it's a private midwife that does home birth doesn't mean that they're going to be the right midwife for your home birth. But it makes it really tricky. So that's, yeah, a pretty admirable thing to do because I think, yeah, most women would feel like a bit stuck. Yeah. Well, I honestly didn't feel like I had a choice. Like I knew that I just couldn't, I couldn't be, I couldn't have her in my space. And it, it was a bit stressful in that I didn't have an answer straight away, but I also just had this piece of knowing like it'll just work out how it's meant to. And, yeah, it did. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. And so 40 weeks. Wow. Were there any different signs of labor compared to with Ruben? No, not at all. I think I had like one little bout of pre-labor about a week beforehand that I thought might be it. I think we even set up the pool, but yeah, that went away. And then yeah, a week later, no signs of labor at all until my first really strong contraction. as we were having dinner and it was like, whoa, okay, that was, you know, straight into it. Rubens had been a lot more gradual. and then, yeah, he was born three hours later. It was crazy. So yeah, I, we didn't have issues with the hot water this time, thankfully. So I was able to get in the pool after about an hour spent about two hours in the pool. My husband was in there with me this time. He was doing the hip squeezes, which was amazing. My midwife also taught us that, which was incredible. And I had my birth song playing in my earbuds. And so I was kind of in my own little world. Like no one else could hear my song. I felt like I was in a different world, just in my own little bubble. And Yeah, the midwife got there about an hour before he was born and it was just beautiful. It was so much more peaceful, way less painful, way quicker. And yeah, my husband was in the pool behind me this time, so he got to catch the baby and pass him through to me. And again, we didn't find out the gender. So picking them up and seeing we had another little boy was very exciting. We wanted two boys in a row so they could be little best friends. And yeah, it was just, it was just beautiful. I felt a lot more emotion this time, like a lot more sort of, that euphoria and happiness and stuff that I hadn't really felt with my first, cause it had just been such a shell shock. Yeah. Yeah. This time was a lot more, I think, emotional and beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny that you kind of say that, especially because it was so much quicker from what I hear from other women is that the quicker births often mean that like they haven't had time to like process what it like, my gosh, I'm in labor. my gosh. I've literally just had the baby. Yeah. Well, I mean, I feel like three hours was long enough. My next two were even quicker. So that was a little bit of that in those ones. Yeah. my goodness. Wow. And so apart from like the stuff that the midwife, you know, taught you guys, did you sort of like engage with any other sort of resources or, you know, any other birth workers or anything like that? No, I read the hypnobirthing book and I didn't do the self -hypnosis, but I did like the breathing techniques from hypnobirthing, which was really helpful in combination with the relaxation stuff that the midwife taught me. But yeah, that was about it. Just pausing here to thank the July sponsor, Bimpy and Roy. They describe their products as versatile intimates that adapt to your everyday, but... They are also the unofficial outfit of labour and birth for women across Australia. Was anyone else counting their appearance in the Born at Home film? In my first labour and birth, I unexpectedly found myself completely naked, which is fine. But when planning my labour and birth for Frankie, I knew BNB and Rory would be my outfit. They are perfect for the sweat and water that labour so often involves. And because of their ability to dry quickly, you can wear them comfortably no matter where you are labouring. You can check out all of their beautiful designs yourself at bimbyandroy .com .au. Enjoy. Yeah. And so you're a doula now. Did you know during these pregnancies that having a doula was possible? I had never heard of a doula. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had no idea what a doula was. So no, it didn't even cross my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. and so at what point after Levi, did you make the decision that actually next time I'm not going to have a midwife? it was during my third pregnancy actually. So yeah, during my third pregnancy, I, at the beginning of the pregnancy, I engaged the same midwife again. And I thought, you know, that was awesome. Last time there was nothing wrong with it. Why not do it again? And then as I went through that pregnancy. I just had a lot of, I don't know, just stuff come up where I really wanted to dive deep and trust my own intuition. And I started hearing of some people who were like friends of friends who had free birthed. And it sort of just became a bit more real and a bit more of an option and not so like crazy and out there that I thought it was. And also there were a few things that came up with this midwife as well, like nothing terrible. But it was just things like, I didn't want to get scans this time. I didn't want any ultrasounds and she required ultrasounds for me to be in her care. and I had suspected that I was having twins and she couldn't take me on if I was having twins, things like that, where I was like, there's a lot of like red tape and rules here. And there were some other things as well. It wasn't just those, but, and I, I understand like she's got to stick to the rules to keep her job. but that just didn't align with what I wanted. So that combined with this desire to really trust myself and my body and my intuition and not rely on someone else was, I don't know, just kind of the perfect combination for me to go, yeah, I think I want a free birth. And yeah, and she was really, the midwife was really good about it when I told her, she kind of like even looked over my notes to make sure that I knew what I was doing. yeah, so like we, we left on really good terms and everything. but yeah, it was, it was a very peaceful decision. Like as soon as I decided I want to do this, it was like, yeah, of course that's what I'm going to do. Like that's definitely the right choice. My husband was on board. I remember telling him and he was like, yeah, as long as you've done your research, he's, he's kind of used to it now. He like presents me with an idea and I just run with it. He's like, Hey, let's home birth. And I'm like, let's free birth. And he's like, do you want to homeschool? And I'm like, let's unschool. Let's take it the next step. Yeah. Wow. So yeah, that was really exciting. At the same time though, we had been living in a house that, it was our first time that we'd bought a week after I found out I was pregnant. So I was only like, six weeks pregnant, maybe seven, we had a huge storm come through and some massive gum trees fell through the roof of our house. And so we ended up getting put in temporary accommodation for like an unknown period of time while we all got fixed. So it was like, you know, first trimester nausea, this pain coming back in my groin, looking after two toddlers. and trying to deal with all these insurance claims, it was just awful. It was such a stressful, terrible time. And yeah, we didn't know how long we would be out of our home for. So it ended up being, I mean, I'm cutting this story way short, but it, and we, we moved around to a few different temporary accommodations and then we ended up being away for exactly the length of my pregnancy. like eight and a bit months all up. And we had removalists because they were paid for by our insurance. And the day that the removalists came to move us home, I went into labor the same day. my goodness. So it started out as like really spaced out contractions, like one every 30 minutes or something. I think my body was just trying to say like, okay, you need to get ready because this is happening. And my water started leaking, which had never happened before. My waters had broken just before the baby came out the first two times. So it was a bit wild, like moving day. My husband had to work. So I was in charge of like directing the removalists, telling them what to pack, where to go. Also had the two toddler boys with me. They were four and two. my goodness. Yeah. Had these contractions coming on like really strong, still really far apart, but really strong. And it was just wild. So we got back to the house that we were moving back into our home and I was sort of directing the removalist like where to put stuff. There was nothing in the house, like no beds, no furniture, no nothing. And so I'm like digging through the boxes trying to find the towels because I'm about to give birth. I need some towels. trying to find like the Tupperware box so I could birth my placenta into a bowl. Trying to keep the boys entertained. Like it was just, it was crazy. So I got my sister -in -law and my mother-in -law to come over and help and called my husband. I was like, I think I'm in labor. He was like, I'll come home. So he came home, removal is still going everywhere. And I was like full blown into labor by this point. They were, the contractions were like, four minutes apart and really strong. Like I'm having to stop and breathe and sway through them. My sister -in -law was like, are you... It was her baby shower the next day, which I was throwing for her. She was having a baby shower a few weeks after me. I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to make it to your baby shower. Hey, she's like, yeah, you've got unpacking and stuff to do. And I'm like, no, I'm in labor. How many weeks are you at this point? I was only 38 and three. So I thought I had a few more time. I thought I had like another week. Yeah. At least. Whoa. Yeah. So. What were the, did the, had the removalists like caught on to the fact that you're like gonna drop a baby any minute? So there was one woman, like it was a team of men and there was one woman on the team. And I pulled her aside in the morning and I was like, Hey, don't want to freak anyone out, but I'm kind of like, you know, having contractions. I'm kind of in labor and she was like, my goodness, do you need to go to hospital? Like what can we do? What do we do? And I'm like, no, it's okay. I'm having a home birth. So just, just chill. Like, I just need you to move me into my house. Like that's what I need you to do. And she's like, okay, yep, we're on it. So she kind of got everyone working like at full speed. What a story that would have been. my goodness. So you're searching for the towels and the tupperware. Yeah. Wow. Like, yeah. Holy moly. Yeah. So talk about like not having space to get into the zone. Yeah. My husband's been home from work and he was like, you need to chill out because you're being so active. You're putting yourself into labor really quickly. So he set up, he had like a little. he had been renovating the house at the same time as it was being fixed. So he was actually camping at the house. He had a little swag set up on the veranda. So he's like, go and lie in the swag. I went and laid down, which made the contractions so painful, but spaced them right back out. So they were back to like 15, 20 minutes apart. I just like held on for dear life and agonized my way through those contractions for like five hours. And every time I got up to go to the toilet, they were like straight back to two minutes apart. And I would run back to the swag to lie down. my God, just face them out. This whole time, the removalists are everywhere. You know, the boys are there playing with their grandma. Dan's like directing everyone where to go. It was just chaos. And I moved into the, they got the bed set up at some stage. So I moved onto the bed. And I ordered Indian for dinner because I knew that we'd need to eat. I timed it so that I called up in between contractions. So that got delivered and as soon as like the delivery driver left, the removalist left, the delivery driver left. I was like up and just pacing through the house like a mad woman. The contractions were straight back on top of each other, straight into transition. And I was like, I can't do this. What's happening? It was just wild. Like my mother -in -law was putting sheets on the kids bed for them and getting them ready for bed. And the bath didn't even have a spout on it. So my husband's like in the shed finding a spout for the bath because he'd like hadn't finished his renovation. yeah. And I remember standing on the back veranda, looking at my husband and going, I feel like I need to push. And he was like, okay. What do you need me to do? I'm like, just get me some water in the bath. Like just, yeah. Yeah. So he, he got onto that. I got into the bath. It was still like ankle deep and I set up like a little chair next to the bath cause Reuben wanted to watch. He was four at the time. Yeah. And yeah, after a little while, the water like started looking a bit yellow. Like it's water yellow and Dan was like, yeah, it's fine. It's just been, cause we hadn't used the water in the house for eight months. It had been sitting in the box. It looked like I was giving birth in wee. And then it got to like sort of. like hip height the water if I was if I was on my knees and Stopped being like it started coming out cold. Yeah, is this water still warm and Dan's like no the whole water heater So I had this lukewarm yellow piss water Welcome to the world, baby. That was only like just covering my vagina. my gosh. It was really relieving somehow. Yeah. And I was not going to move. Like I was at that point, you know, that point the women get to in labour where they're like, I am not moving from this point. Yeah. I was there. So I was pushing, full blown pushing by now. I was really present. I was, it wasn't like Levi's labor where I was off in labor land. I was very present. I was talking to the baby. I was like talking to Ruben telling him what to expect. And he was already prepped. Like we'd watched a zillion birth videos together. He was really excited. And yeah, it was just incredible. Like doing it all in my own power, in my own intuition. trusting my body and my baby completely. I just knew that we were okay. I knew there was nothing wrong. Even though there was so much chaos going on, it was just so peaceful within myself. I'll never forget. I remember this birth so much more clearly than the others, I think, because of everything that was going on. I remember the feeling of the baby moving. through my pelvis and my pelvis opening and that feeling like I was going to be torn in half. And yeah, I said some naughty words and then I felt like I had my hand on the baby's head as it was crowning and sort of guided it out. And it was just incredible. Like this powerful, incredible feeling. And I my own baby. And it was just the best. Like it was just so cool. And yeah, I picked it up and there's just like heaps of vernis and the others didn't have any vernis. So this one had like big cake of vernis on its head. And yeah, I lifted it up and I just I saw that I had a little girl and it was just it was just the most precious moment. Like to have this initiation into my feminine power, my intuition and to have a little girl. It was just like something so special about it. And yeah, she was perfect. She was really small and had jet black hair with the boys had been like white blonde. Wow. Yeah. She started crying straight away. I don't know, maybe because the water was not really warm. Welcome. my goodness. So, your, your mom or your mother -in -law was also there? My mother -in -law was in the other room with Levi. She was putting him to bed. so I think he was fast asleep by then. It was only, I think it was just after 6pm, but he just started his day. So he was. he was asleep and she was just in the bedroom with him and yeah, she woke, we got him, we got her to wake him up and bring him in after the baby was born. He was pretty out of it though. So yeah. And what did Ruben, like what was Ruben's reaction? He was, it was just so normal for him. Like he didn't really show any excitement or anything like that. He just watched and he was fascinated and just like, yeah, cool. Like, yeah, the baby's coming out. Cool. And, I think he was just more concerned about where his scissors were because he was going to cut the cord. my goodness. That's so sweet. What a, like, what a memory for him. Like, my goodness. Yeah. It was pretty cool. And so you got, I presume you got out of the cold yellow water. And, did you, with any of your, you know, births, did you do anything special with the placenta? yeah, I consumed my, all four of my placentas. All four of them. Yeah. Cool. Did you do it the same way each time or a different way? I don't tell many people this, but I guess everyone's going to know. This is the good bit. This is like sharing so other people know what's possible. Yeah, this is the, this is the goss. So a lot of people do placenta encapsulation. I looked into that and I kind of thought it seems like a lot of money for, someone to do that, which placenta encapsulation is great. I do it now. So please get your placenta encapsulation. Please contact Rosie for this service. But what I did is I just got my husband to chop up my placenta into tiny little pieces and we put them in the freezer. And then I just like took them like tablets. So I just put the pieces into my mouth and drink my juice with it. And it was just like taking, taking tablets, but I didn't have to get them processed in any way. So that was, yeah, free and really easy. Yep. Yep. I spoke to, Bronnie, she was in episode 39 and she also shared how, she'd made placenta smoothies and same sort of thing. Like if you chop it up small, it's like a, a non -issue really. I don't know. I couldn't handle the thought of a smoothie knowing that there's placenta all through it, but. Yeah. Well, the way she described it, it sounded like I was like, I could get around that. Like as long as you pop enough ingredients in like. Yeah. I just liked swallowing it and not having to taste it or think about it. And then it was just like, yeah, I wouldn't go. Yeah. And so you did that with all four. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And so. So did Ruben cut the cord? Yes, he did. It was beautiful. So yeah, I gave birth to the placenta easy about 20 minutes later. It was the same with all of them within about half an hour. And yeah, we moved to the bed. The house was still out of chaos. There's boxes, half unpacked stuff everywhere. But yeah, we moved to the bed and yeah, he came in and cut the cord. It was beautiful. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if cutting the cord has something to do with like a bond later in life, but Ruben and Eliza are so close to each other now. Like they're sort of really inseparable and if I cut my other son's cord and they're really close. So I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but I just think that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is very special. And so little girl. Yes. And so Baby number four, is that a boy? Yep. my gosh. So she's the only little girl. That's so sweet. It is. And I'm the only girl with three brothers as well. So we copied and pasted a bit there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. my goodness. And so after this whole free birth experience, I guess even, you know, maybe going back a little bit. Did you receive any commentary around your choice to not have a midwife present or did you connect with anyone sort of that had free birth before? I connected with a lot of people online, like in the free birth Facebook groups and followed a lot of Instagram accounts that were that way, you know, kind of, yeah, free birthers. I also did a lot of research. I didn't go into it blindly or anything. I did a lot of research about anything that could happen and how to respond to it. Learning what was a true emergency and what was something that I could actually treat naturally or when it was time to call an ambulance. I was really prepared and had a sheep printed out and laminated for my husband as well so that he knew what to do if anything happened. Yeah. But I didn't tell anyone that I was free birthing anyone in my real life. Yeah. I think there was maybe like one or two really trusted friends who I knew wouldn't try and talk me out of it or judge me or anything. Yeah. But yeah, I just decided not to tell anyone because I know that it's a really radical decision and I know that it's not something that most people can understand as being a good decision. Because I used to think the exact same thing. You know, I remember when I was having my home birth thinking that free birth is where, irresponsible and crazy. So I understand why people have that, that view. And I just didn't want to hear any, any negativity. So I just kept it to myself. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. And so after the, you know, two fantastic. births at home attended by a midwife and then a free birth like totally in your own power without any assistance. It's like a given that like fourth time around you'd be like, well, duh, like, of course I'm doing it like this. Did you like have any temptation? I don't know. I don't know if temptation is the right word, but did you have any temptation to invite? Well, you just said you didn't know what a duel it was, but like a midwife into the space with your fourth baby? No, not at all. So my first two with midwives, the midwives didn't do anything wrong. They didn't really do anything, which was great. But I just felt for me by having a medical professional in my space, I felt that I was like deferring my power to them. If that makes sense. They were the professional in the room. They were the expert. not me being the expert of my own body. If ever I had any doubts, I looked to them for answers instead of looking within myself. That was the real change that I wanted to happen. What did happen for my third and fourth was that I didn't have anyone watching over me and feeling like I had to... What's the word? I was, I was giving away my trust, I guess. Yeah. Instead of trusting myself, I was trusting them. Yeah. And I guess I, in a way you, yeah, you do kind of. Like their presence and the way that they're acting is sort of validation or invalidation of like what might be happening. So it's, yeah, you are sort of like placing a lot of trust in that person. Instead of yourself really. Yeah. And I found that because I had that medical professional there, I wasn't tuned into my own intuition because I didn't need to be. And that's really what I wanted. So, yeah, that was really. different for my third and fourth where I was fully in my intuition and in my own trusting in my own body. Yeah. Yeah. And what's baby number four's name? Jethro. Jethro. And did you do anything different with his pregnancy or, you know, in terms of preparation, especially with three, like little kids roaming about, like that's very busy. No, I didn't do anything to be honest. I was in so much pain and I was really suffering with depression and anxiety because of the pain. It was really, really rough pregnancy. I spent a lot of it on the couch just feeling awful, feeling sorry for myself, but also feeling like a really bad mom. My husband was working really long hours as well. It was just surviving. I just survived. I didn't do any kind of preparation at all. I just went, I've done this three times already. Don't have the energy to prepare. I'll just take what comes. Yeah. did you, so the, what did you call it? pelvic, pelvic congestion syndrome, pelvic congestion syndrome. So that only started really after your second pregnancy. Is that right? Or like during your second pregnancy? Yeah, like I felt a little bit of tenderness in that area in my first, but yeah, my second is when it sort of got to the point of me needing to do something about it. And then, yeah, it's got worse each time. So all three, all the last three pregnancies was compression garments full time, like other than night time. Yeah. And so during your pregnancy, that was obviously a very mentally and emotionally challenging thing. once it sort of went away and in terms of the... I guess, effect or impact of such a great birth experience. Did you feel that your mental health did sort of balance out in that postpartum period or did you have other challenges or? After my fourth. After, especially after your like baby number two and three? Or even your fourth? Yeah, like as soon as I give birth, the pain goes away completely. So it's I've, I found that postpartum was really good in that I was like, you know, free from pain. Yeah. So it was, yeah, it was a weight lifted in that way. But yeah, there were my second and third postpartums were beautiful. Amazing. My first had breastfeeding challenges and then my fourth had a lot of mental health issues, which I guess we'll get into now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So, So presumably the house is now set up. Yes. Normal again. The house is normal again. The bath has a tap or has a spout. Warm water. Brilliant. And how many weeks roughly did you go into labor with Jethro? That was 40 weeks and four days. So that was my longest pregnancy. And I tell you those four days. They just felt like forever. I felt like I was going to be pregnant forever and I had no signs of labor at all. So I was like, this is it. I'm just pregnant lady forever. And I think just because I was so keen for it to be over with that was a bit of a struggle. Just dragging. Yeah. But yes, I remember the night before he was born. Feeling like a little bit of a twinge in my tummy while we're watching a movie, but you know, nothing really. I think maybe a contraction or two woke me up overnight, but woke up at 6 a and just in like, you know, those days when you're like, I just don't really want to do today. Just not feeling it. Don't want to get up. It was like that. So Dan got up and dealt with the kids. I remember I went to the toilet and as I was doing a wee, I felt this really distinct clunk as he descended into my pelvis. At the same time, I got a huge contraction. I was like, wow, okay, right. Maybe he's going to come out at some stage. Yeah, soon, hopefully. I didn't find out the gender for any of them. At this point. 100 % thinking that I was about to give birth to a girl. Cause I, I don't know. I had just, we had the two boys and they were like, you know, little besties. And then I had a girl and I just, my brain just went, yeah, it'll be a girl and you'll have two boys and two girls. And everyone around me was saying the same. They're like, yeah, it'll be girl. It'll be girl. And like I logically knew there was 50, 50 chance, but I just, I don't know. I just didn't even consider the idea of a boy for some reason. My brain just didn't even go there. And so, yeah, six o 'clock felt the baby clunk down into my pelvis and huge contraction. I went out and tried to start making porridge for the kids, but I couldn't, like I was already into labor, like having to really focus through contractions. So Dan took over the porridge. I got my mother -in -law to come down again. this time Ruben and Levi were going to watch and My mother -in -law just was going to play with Eliza. Yeah. So yeah, she started heading down. This was only like six 20 and my contractions were already two, three minutes apart. Really strong. So I went and cleaned the bath. Guess the boys had made it all muddy than the day before. my goodness. but yeah, it was, it was beautiful. Like clear. Nice warm water right up to my boobs. Like it was just so nice. What a luxury. Right. my gosh. but it was so, so intense. Like I can't even explain how painful this labor was because it was happening so quickly. There was no time to get in the zone. Like it was, it was basically gone from asleep to in transition and. Yeah, I was just, I was just not coping well with it at all. I was thrashing around like, I wasn't very vocal. I wasn't really vocal at all in any of my last three labors because I'd learned like the breathing techniques. Yeah. But inside I just felt like I was just going crazy, like thrashing around and just completely out of control. Yeah. I remember like bashing my forehead on the side of the bath, trying to get some relief and had a bruise there after, after laying. And my husband felt really helpless, I think, because he couldn't really do anything for me. He was, he was there with the boys making sure they were behaving themselves. And, you know, he'd try and sort of rub my back and I was like, no, don't touch me. Yes, actually do touch me. Like I just had no idea what I wanted and he had no idea what I needed. And it was really chaotic inside and out for that labor. And this was the first time I really actively pushed my other ones. I kind of let my body do it. I experienced fetal ejection reflex and the baby kind of came out on its own without me actively pushing. Whereas this one I was just all in pushing as hard as I could. I just so badly. wanted it to be over and needed this baby to be out like straight away, which I mean, I really don't recommend pushing hard like that if you want to avoid hemorrhoids. So yeah, pro tip. Yeah. There's a little bit more of my inside love. But yeah, I mean, it was, it was still a beautiful experience and a beautiful birth. And you know, anyone looking on would wish for a birth that like that because it was straightforward. It was quick. It was no complications. I didn't tear. I didn't have any, you know, excessive bleeding or anything like that. But for me, I just felt kind of, kind of abused in a way. I know that that's a big word, but I felt like my body had just done this to me and I had no no control over it and yeah, kind of just really out of control, that out of control feeling. But yeah, I remember the head coming out and the rest of the body came out, but he kind of got stuck at his hips and I couldn't pull the rest of him out and Dan straight away knew what to do. He's like, just move your hips. And as soon as he sort of grabbed my hips and moved them for me, And as soon as he did that, the rest of the body came out and yeah, I picked him up and he was like just perfect, you know, bright purple and went to red really quickly and started crying straight away. And I just felt absolutely nothing. I felt completely numb. Wow. Like there was this void there and yeah, there was no like big oxytocin rush. Emporia or anything like that. I just felt relief like physical relief that it was over but there was just Yeah, like my birth videos on YouTube and I watch it sometimes and look at my face and I'm like there is just there's nothing there like there's no emotion. Yeah, and I was very much in practical mode. Like I was looking to make sure the baby was okay. I Remember looking at the water to make sure I wasn't bleeding I was like, okay, is everything physically okay? Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay. Cool. and yeah, picked the baby up and saw that it was a boy and it was like, okay. This is not what I expected. Not what I expected at all. And so I guess that numb feeling just continued. It was like, okay, I've just had this traumatic experience, which I feel bad even saying it was traumatic because you know, there was no obstetric violence and there was no abuse and none of this stuff that people normally associate with birth trauma, but I felt traumatized by the birth that I just had. So, Yeah, well, it's, it's us as individuals that determine if it's traumatic. So I think, like, and especially if, you know, you've felt so worn down, especially exacerbated by the pelvic congestion syndrome stuff, like to be in pain before you already have to be in such intense pain as well. and then add to that, like the, the pain associated with, you know, this sort of back to back, very quick labor. Yeah. With everything else going on as well. Like, I think that's, yeah, that's understandable. Yeah. I know that now. I know how valid my feelings are now, but at the time I felt like a fraud. Like I shouldn't be calling at birth trauma or that I shouldn't feel traumatized by my experience because it's an experience that a lot of women wish they had. But yeah, I've done a lot of work and a lot of therapy and I know, I understand and accept now that that's valid and that's just the way it was for me. Yeah. But yeah, Ruben and Levi got to watch this time, which was really special. They were amazing. I just told them that they had to sit still and quiet, otherwise they'd have to go out and they did. Yeah, that was really beautiful that they got to watch their little brother be born. And placenta was the same again, about 20 minutes, easy, no excessive bleeding. He was a big boy. He was nine pound nine, which is like, I've no four point something, four point one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. What were the sizes for the other three? So my, my three boys were seven, seven, eight, eight and nine, nine. what the heck? Yeah. And my daughter was seven pound two. So she was my smallest. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So his postpartum was very interesting. Big brother Levi got to cut the cord, which was very cool. And it was actually, it was actually really, it was really weird giving birth in the daytime. Yeah. What time was it? 7am when he was born. So I woke up at six and he was born at seven. Yeah. And what month was it? May. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, it was really weird like to start labor when it was daytime and to give birth an hour later. That was really. even weirder. It was a shock to the system. It was, it was like, wow, what just happened? Yeah. but yeah, his, so it took a few days for me to even admit that I was disappointed that he was a boy. Yep. And I felt really guilty for that. I remember the conversation with my husband, cause I had been feeling really down, like really depressed after his birth. Yeah. I talked about it with my husband and he was like, do you feel a little bit like disappointed that he's a boy? And I remember admitting it to him and just crying and he was like, it's okay. I feel the same. And just hearing him say that he felt that as well. It was such a relief. It was like, okay, I'm not the only one that feels this way. Yeah. Yeah. Well, people just don't talk about it because I think it's, it's the same thing as, You know, having what many would perceive as, you know, a physiological positive birth experience, like you kind of feel guilty. Like, like some people can't have children. You're like, you know, being like, I'm a bit sad that it's a boy. Something that caught me personally by surprise when I had Murphy or like found out I was pregnant with Murphy, I guess I'd never thought I would be a boy mum? Like I just, I don't know, growing up, like, you know, I always thought like boys are, you know, I did like lots of babysitting. I was like, my gosh, like boys, they always like want to be outside and I want to ride their bikes and they want to like do all this stuff. And like, I'm just not like that. And like getting that, you know, like we did find out getting that blood test result or whatever. And it's saying that it was a boy. I was like, like, huh? Like, what does this mean? and I was like, I don't know anything about penises. I don't know. Like, like, yeah, this is just not the journey that I thought I would be having, having. And then with, Frankie. Like I have a brother and, like pretty much everyone in my family, there's like a boy and a girl. So I was like, well, Frankie will be a girl. and then it was another boy and I was like, what the heck is happening? This is not the journey that I anticipated. yeah. And it's funny how we can know that it's like not guaranteed, but you still have this idea in your head. Yeah. Yeah. And it's fine. It's fine for me personally now, I guess, like I accept that, but I still find it strange, especially like what you said about Eliza, that, you know, you know, like, I guess now knowing more about your red thread and things like that, like, I kind of feel at a loss at the moment because I'm like, well, how am I, where is my red thread? Yeah. Like who's, who's getting that? Like, is it like, what if, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like it's just knowing so much about your feminine line and like lineage and maternal line and stuff. It's just, yeah. Yeah. Do you think you'll have another one? I would like to think that I feel confident enough in my body to free birth, especially having heard so many amazing free birth stories. But like, to be really honest, like the financial situation of life right now, I do not know how we would fit another child in. I definitely wouldn't have another baby just to try and wish to the universe for a girl. it's, it's possible, but, I think, yeah, that gender disappointment, like, yeah, I'd never really, before I encountered those feelings, I'd never heard of it. I think now it's maybe a bit more, not common, but I've spoken about, I see people talking about it. And I think, did you share something on Earthy Birth the other day about gender disappointment? Yeah, I did share a post before that. And I saw people commenting and I was like, yeah, like this is really good. Yeah, I was just trying to encourage a conversation about it. Cause I think, you know, if I had seen a post like that, when I was going through what I did, I would have felt so validated and seen. And I just want people to know that it's okay to feel like that and it's normal. And yeah, I think I especially. Just before I'd had Jethro, one of my best friends had, she had struggled with infertility for years and had done IVF and then had lost a little boy in like a second trimester loss. And she obviously, you know, would have done anything to keep that little boy. And so then I felt extra bad, like guilty that I was disappointed to have this little boy. You know what I mean? And also I already had a girl. I had, like, I had people tell me, but you've already got a girl, like, why, why are you disappointed? And so that was, you know, really invalidating as well. But I understand why you'd say that, but also don't say that. Yeah, yeah, also read the room, guys. This is not what you say. So that all of this, like, packed up into one sort of like... emotional and mental. a panic room kind of thing. Like what was, what was your postpartum like then? Like, especially after that initial sort of shock of, it is another boy. How, how was your postpartum? physically it was really good. My, my recovery was great. He was really healthy. I was, you know, fine physically. but yeah, emotionally, it was a real struggle. I, I was already struggling with depression and anxiety in pregnancy. And I felt that that just sort of carried on through the first few months. And I felt that it was really hard to bond with him. when he would wake up in the night for feeds, I felt like he was doing it on purpose to be mean to me. And, it got to the point where I didn't want him. Yeah. Big yeah. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah. Yeah, I remember the feeling of... I remember the feeling of wishing that I hadn't had him and that was when I knew that I really needed help. So I remember actually I asked a friend who had had a baby not too long before me if she could have him for a night. Yeah. And she's so beautiful. She took him and breastfed him for me for a whole night. And I got a full night's sleep and I just felt like a new person after that night because I had a break from him and I got a chance to miss him. Yeah. And I had a good night's sleep. Yep. And so I got, you know, when I got him back, I felt that was sort of when I started feeling, I guess, love towards him and realizing that I would actually really miss him if he wasn't there. Yeah. So I think that was, that was such a valuable thing that she did for me. Yeah. And it really started my journey of bonding with him. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a journey. It took probably a good year for me to feel like I really truly bonded with him. But yeah, now he's just, he's just the most amazing little asset to our family. Like I wouldn't swap him for any, any girl. He's just perfect. Like he's the perfect person to complete our family and I wouldn't change anything about him. So it just took a while. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's also, yeah, just not something that's normalized in our society anymore. There's kind of, yeah, this expectation that you fall in love, like the second that you give birth and don't matter about the other stuff. Like you got a baby, like you've won the lottery. Like, wow. But Yeah, I think that's really important to talk about as well, because with my first and my fourth, I didn't feel that initial, like, you know, fall in love with this baby and all these beautiful emotions that everyone tells you that you'll have. And it's, sometimes it takes time to bond with your baby and that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. And, did you look into like postpartum depletion or anything like that? I didn't see a clinician or anything. I just figured that I would need a lot of support. I was taking beef liver and my placenta and high dose vitamin C and all of the things that I knew would help my system to cope, which I do believe helped. I also spent about two years in therapy with a psychologist. Dealing with that birth but also All the other stuff that comes up when you're in therapy. Yeah. So that's been really awesome. And I've really have processed a lot of it and I feel like I really healed my relationship with him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's something that should be normalized too, because yeah, like, just because you become a parent doesn't mean like everything else goes away. Like you're still carrying everything, but now you also have to parent a child. And in your case, you had three other children to also parent, three little kids. And yeah, like it's a big step to admit like, actually, I think I do need help, especially I can imagine if you've had these. experience, like, you know, especially in the past two birth experiences where you've kind of been like, I trust myself, my body can do this. And then in terms of mental health, like, yeah, admitting that, okay, well, I actually do need help. I imagine that that's a bit to process as well. Yeah, yeah, it was very humbling because I had felt like I could do it all and I didn't need help up until that point. And yeah, to sort of crumble and accept that I am actually in a really vulnerable place where I need something to shift was humbling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing those big stories and all the little extra bids, including the placenta. Like, yeah, I think it's really important to share, you know, these little bits of the bigger picture, even though they might not seem, you know, like the podcast is about sharing birth at home stories, but it's, it's not all oxytocin and euphoria. Like the reality of life is that it's not always like that. And I think that's important to share and, yeah, having shared that though, I would not change anything. There's no, there was no point that I wished I was in hospital or anywhere else. There's nothing that I would change about my birth experiences other than, you know, maybe slowing them down if I could. Yeah. Swag again. Yeah. but yeah, I think, you know, if, if you're listening to this and you're considering home birth, like just, I guess, think about why not. It's pretty rare to come across someone who has never experienced obstetric violence in their births because so many people go to hospital, especially for their first babies. But that's one, honestly, I say it to my husband all the time. I am so thankful that I had my first baby at home and that I didn't have to go through that obstetric violence trauma to realize how broken the system is and to have my next baby at home. I'm just so thankful that I did that from the start and yeah. Yeah, I 100 % agree. Thank you so much, Rosie. You're very welcome.