Beth's journey to homebirth midwifery || 20 years working towards homebirth midwifery, the red thread, and women's rite's of passage

In this month's midwife story, chat with Beth. Beth shares her story spanning over 20 years now, including her first experience attending a homebirth and then her work as a midwife and eventual transition into private midwifery attending home births. We also chat about  girls and women’s rites of passage and her amazing walking emerging wwoman workshops. 
I first met Beth almost 10 years ago now when studying midwifery so it was beautiful to catch up and learn more about her story all these years later!

Please share this story, especially with student midwives who may be interested in homebirth midwifery! 


Resources: 

• Beth @womanwithchild.beth + find out about her Walking the Emerging Woman Workshops here too
• Jenny Blyth https://birthwork.com/about-us/
• Impact of 'light' in labour https://www.melaniethemidwife.com/podcasts/the-great-birth-rebellion/episodes/2148625925
• Core of Life https://coreoflife.org.au/
• Jane Hardwicke Collins https://janehardwickecollings.com/
• Dr Rachel Reed https://www.rachelreed.website/

Chapters

• 8:27 Transitioning to Homebirth
• 13:16 The importance of education
• 25:05 Rites of Passage for Girls
• 32:53 Teaching girls about their bodies
• 40:06 The impact and purpose of midwifery

Transcript

0:02

Hi everyone, welcome to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys. I'm a mental health nurse, the co -creator of Home Birth Victoria, and I'm a Melbourne based doula. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast, all my work, check out www.birthingathome .com .au. And before we begin today, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Nam. Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. For this month's Midwife story, we hear from Beth in Queensland who shares her story spanning over 20 years now, including her first experience attending a home birth. and then her work as a midwife and eventual transition into private midwifery attending home births. We also chat about girls and women's rites of passage and her amazing walking emerging woman workshops. I first met Beth almost 10 years ago now when studying midwifery. So it was beautiful to catch up and learn more about her story all of these years later. Enjoy and don't forget to share this episode. Welcome Beth to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Hello, how are you? I'm well, how are you? I'm great. Thank you. That's awesome. So Beth, welcome to the podcast. Do you want to give our listeners a little bit of background about who you are, where you live, that kind of thing? Sure. I'm Beth. I'm a home birth midwife on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland. I trained in Victoria. Did the 2002 when direct entry midwifery first came in. And yeah, I just went pretty slow after that, having a little baby and finally got up here in 2010 and yeah, things started to shift over the years of getting where I wanted to be, always be, was in the home birth world. Yep. And so how long have you been in private practice home birth sort of world for? Like a couple of years? Yes, so 2020 I went out on my own as a like the primary private practice in midwife before that I'd been in group practice for a little bit for a few years going as second midwife and teaching and doing antenatal and postnatal visits. So it really tied in with the pace of my daughter and bringing her up and yeah. Yeah and for the listeners who don't know Beth was one of my lecturer tutors. What would you call yourself? What was your role? Tutor. Yeah. And I only did it for a little while. really? my gosh. sorry. Beth was one of the tutors for the bachelor of, what was the dual bachelor of nursing and midwifery. And I started in 2014. So we must've met for the first time, like. Yeah. Nine or 10 years ago. but yeah, how, how crazy I've also been reflecting, you know, having you on the podcast about, you know, studying midwifery. And I really remember, I feel like I've been trying to place it and I think, do I have any pictures? But I really feel like there was something that as student midwives we were invited to, and I have a feeling it might've been like, in your Monday or, and it was like a circle gathering and student midwives were invited along. I feel like you were there. I wonder if it was a movie showing in your Monday. Was it Jenny Blythe's movie or? Now you're saying a movie. I'm thinking it was a movie. It was. It was. What? I'll have to like... I'm trying to think now which movie it was. I think it was, I think it was Jenny. my goodness. What the heck? Was she there? Or like... Yeah. my gosh. connected and I didn't even know. I mean, I pro I don't know if I spoke to her, but like people talk about her and I'm like, yeah, I haven't, you know, my gosh, what the heck, but the sunshine coast 2014, 2015, 2016, the place to be if you were a student midwife, I think. but so going back, I guess all the way back to, you moving to Australia, your upbringing. What was your understanding of midwifery, of birth, of pregnancy, in comparison to all of your knowledge now? It was nothing. I grew up, I was of the era, being a teenager in the 80s. No talk about periods, no talk about baby, just went on the pill. Yeah, you just stopped babies coming. yeah, I was, I did something very different in London while I was growing up. It was all in the fashion and department stores and it was all just what I'd known as a child and yeah, but, I always, I never felt at home in England and then cut to, I traveled quite a bit. And then I came to Australia when I was 26 and I started to settle down and just be really present in by way of who I was. I started to find out more of who I was and stop playing with recreational medicine to help me just go through life and was studying, qigong and gongfu and meditating like every day. And it just kept coming, like, be a midwife, be a midwife. So I still didn't know anything about being a midwife. Yeah. And it's quite amazing to review it. And I remember being on the phone to a friend and I didn't know I was going to stay here. I was on a year's visa and I was just like, wouldn't it be amazing to live somewhere like this and be a midwife? And it's like it fell out of my mouth, you know, just. And then it wouldn't go away for like months. Yeah. And yeah. And then in 99 or 2000, I phoned the nurses board of New South Wales and they said, you have to be a nurse. And like, even then I was like, I don't want to be a nurse. I think I just want to be a midwife. Yeah. And they said, well, if you wait till 2002, you can apply for direct entry. And, and it kind of went forward like that. That was the start of it. Yeah. I don't know too much about like pre-university midwifery, but like, so prior, prior to the introduction of, you know, a university degree for midwifery, how did one become a midwife? You did your nursing for three years and then you did another 18 months to become a midwife. But before that, you learn on the job. There was no university. Yeah, much further before that. But before direct entry, you had to do nursing. Yeah. And then do your midwifery. So in Australia, what they were finding was the average age of the midwife was just getting higher and higher. Because after three years of nursing, many the majority of students will be like, nah, I'll just go and do that. so yeah, wow. We need younger midwives. Yeah. and so the direct entry midwifery you did in Victoria. Yes. Yeah. And, and so do you remember, because you know, I've reflected as well about like my own journey to entering midwifery, but like, do you remember what your, I mean, obviously it was a little while ago. Maybe what maybe what your ideas about midwifery were prior to starting because you you did some hospital midwifery through that journey to yeah. Yeah, well, it's almost like I didn't know what it was. I knew what I didn't what it wasn't. Yeah. So I was living in Sydney when I realised I want to be a midwife. And Sydney, New South Wales weren't going to do the direct entry, which is why I went to Victoria. But I was in a cafe working and a friend who was working there was like, do you want to come? She knew the trajectory I was on and she said, do you want to come and be at the birth? And I was like, really? She's like, yeah. So she goes, come to the classes. So I went to the Royal Women's Hospital in Sydney and went to the classes. It was an amazing teacher, Julie. And I was just blown away. And I remember after the first session, the woman, Chrissy, her name was, she said, well, that's not our midwife. And I was like, what do you mean? no, we won't know who our midwife is till the day. And like, I hadn't got to uni yet, but already I was like, well, that's weird. Doesn't mean you won't know who you, like somewhere in my being, I knew that that was a weird concept of not knowing your midwife. Cut to getting to uni, going on placement in my second year, like what the... I don't want to be here, you know. And I was connecting with a whole group of alternative crew down there, amazing. And I just begged the midwife to take me to home by us and she was adamant she wouldn't. She was like, no. and promised myself, I was like, please, I can't just do hospital placement. Like it's just, I just felt like a fish out of water being there, you know, I could do what I'm told. But it wasn't where my heart was. It wasn't what I thought. And she said yes and took me to home beds. The uni was like, you're not allowed to go but. Yeah. Yeah. So your first Exposure to home birth was like, what in 2003? Yep. And what was that experience like for you? It was like mind -blowingly. Yeah, I had no idea. And I just went with her and there was only one midwife at the time. Like now we have to have two midwives for the birth. It was the woman's third birth and it was out. It's kind of bush. It was just past Eltham, Kangaroo... rally, I can't remember what it's called. But we rock up, it's a cold, pretty chilly night and she's outside and her beloved had dug out a hole in the floor like I just... and put a tarp in and that was her birth pool. Wasn't that big. And her best friend, her sissy Peru, singing woman Peru, just sung and drummed the whole way through and I think if... you know, anyone could see me. I probably had my mouth like dropped open the whole time. Yeah. But I'm, but I felt so comfy there and I was just amazing. And then she birthed and I remember she like stood up at one point and shook like two or three times like her hips. And then the baby came, like she could feel he was stuck and quote, you know, needed to like boom, boom. And like even that I was like, whoa. I know. It was just like, as he was born and then her beloved carried her literally in the baby to the back of the property where he'd built this big, beautiful red tent for her to recover. Yeah. Yeah. So that was like really cool. And I drove home, I didn't drive home, I got on the train and I remember speaking to my sister in England and I said, I feel like I just went to the Rolls Royce of Homer. So it was like up there. I didn't know anything then. It was the that. was my first home birth and I just knew it was comfortable. It was where I felt to be. I didn't ever feel that in the hospital. Yeah. Well, it's such a contrast. They're like totally in control of, you know, their space where like, imagine you are planning your labor and birth in hospital and you're like, yeah, I'm going to like have this and I'm going to have like this tent and like, I'm going to have you know, all of this in this room and they'd be like, no, &S. You can't have any of that. Like just, yeah. Like the, the control of you, the control you have over the space, depending on your birthplace, I think, yeah, people just don't really think about that. Like I. recently was listening to a podcast episode from the great birth rebellion about light in labor. And I think it was Mel, the midwife who was saying that, I mean, now that I think about it, I can think of just in general, any hospital kind of does this now, but it is specifically like in birth suite, they have sensor light. in the bathroom. So if you're like in the bathroom, you can't turn the light off because it's on a sensor. So I was just thinking that's like, that's madness. Yes. And I must admit that the hospital here, Sunshine Coast University Hospital have really trying with home birth transfers and I've recently transferred in and when we arrived, all the lights are off and there's just fairy lights on everywhere. And if she goes in the bathroom, we just put a torch on and face the torch to the wall. So it's been really amazing. It's been a couple of times and the people walk in, the couple walk in, of course that's not where they want to birth. It was when they got home birth and we've gone in and they're just really, it's a game changer. You know, obviously if there was an obstetric assistance is... you know, called on required the lights are going to go on. But until that moment, and you know, the last time I transferred in, it just stayed like that the whole way. Yeah, she just ended up having some gas and she just got in the bathroom, got into it and the lights were off the whole time. So that's, I've got to say that's, yeah, I mean, like, that goes to show that not like Not all hospitals are created equally. And like, it's a choice for a hospital to, you know, work on that. Like that doesn't just happen, you know? And then what happens is some of the midwives are viewing women birth in a very different way. You know, it's, it might be tiny amounts, but it is happening. Like midwives would be like, wow, that was a really cool birth. It wasn't really anything, you know, it was just, she just. She just did it, got on with it. But because there was that feeling when she walked in and there was no emergency, it was just very long. There was a few without going into story. But it was all changed when she got on the gas. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah, because like you get quite right. If a woman's transferring, you know, when they've like made such plans to birth at home, like the transfer can be deeply traumatic for women. It's like, there's so many like inner, inner things that would come up, you know, within that those moments, but also postpartum and like, you know, continuous reflections, but like, Yeah, the hospital can make it a better process if they really want to. Yeah. And they were so, this last couple were so ready for bright lights and loud noises and you know, they hadn't even, you know, ever been there, but yeah, they were just like, wow. Yeah. A really big bath and there's all the lights on and yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. and so. Just pausing here everyone to thank the June sponsor of the podcast, which is Earthy Birth. If there is one thing that has been missing from the home birth scene, it is aesthetically pleasing birth pools until now. Earthy Birth is a small family owned business and they're proud to offer professional quality off -white birth pools made from thick eco PVC and are designed for 40 plus uses. That's a lot of home births guys. They also offer stunning disposable floor length liners uniquely designed so that they protect the whole pool and that they don't slip off into the pool. Not only that, the liners come with optional artistic designs printed on the base to make your birth space even more beautiful. Earthy Birth also stocks plenty of other home birth supplies such as hoses, tap adapters, pumps, robozos, birth combs, fairy lights and much more, all in gorgeous earthy tones. They offer both purchase and hire with free shipping Australia wide for all orders over $50. Visit earthybirth .com .au today. Thanks so much, Earthy Birth, and enjoy the rest of this episode, everybody. Your journey into private practice, because the... I'm just trying to think of like the timeline, because the 5 ,000 hour thing, that would have come into play when you'd already have done like quite a lot of hours, is that right? Like, I guess, you know, filling in the gaps between... Did you finish in like roughly 2004, 2005? Yeah. Well, they mucked around with the, degrees. We had to work in the January. They faffed up the clinic hours, but that's another story. And then, so then my daughter was born in May, 2005. So she was my grad year. And then I got a casual position in the hospital that I trained in, which was amazing. because I didn't do a graduate. You didn't have to do a graduate. Yeah. It was you just got a job. You were quality. You know, I was qualified. Yeah. And so I did that. And then I went and worked at Box Hill Hospital for a couple of years, which was really good because they would be in teams. OK. So I just knew because my daughter was little, I knew this was all. Prep for what I would do. I couldn't be a home birth midwife with a one year old and then. or a baby and then when she was one I became a single mum. So being on call was just not yet, you know, so it was like making the best of a bad situation just like, all right, this is, this is for now. And so I did a few years in Victoria, just part time working in all, yeah, at Sunshine Hospital, Box Hill Hospital and then a bit of casual work. because that was very well paid back in the day in the private house stores. It was amazing. I was juggling. I was in flight off flight, juggling mother, single motherhood baby. And yeah, and then, so that was 2005 and then January 2010, I moved up to Queensland, just her and I. And Nambor Hospital was the only hospital. And I felt I went and got work there as a casual and that was like going back. 20, 30 years, it was just where have I landed? Like, shoot, you know. But again, I was very looked after and blessed and ended up getting quite a lot of work in the antenatal clinic, which really helped with being a single mum and not doing shift work and not having any, knowing anyone up here. And then around 2016, 17, I went and worked with a group of women who were doing independent practice. And that's how I started creeping out to home birth. It was like my daughter was getting older and there was support and I'd just go as a second. And then she was really ready. She's like, all right, mama, just lock the door. Or, you know, she'd be like 14. But it was, it never, it was funny. It never actually happened like that. It's always been phenomenal timing. Like I would either know and then she'd go to the neighbor. It was never like leaving her at two in the morning. It was, yeah, it was really good. It was really. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. And so when I met you, that was sort of like, not filler years, but like just trying to make it work with, parenthood and making your way into that sort of path. Yeah. Well, the home birth. Yeah. I probably wasn't even thinking. I was just in, I was deeply in fright or flight survival. I just had to bring up my girl, work. And I only could work two days a week or five a fortnight. Like she didn't like it if I worked too much. Cause there's a lot of juggling. So I was just doing that, but I always knew there was more because I'd been at home birth and that's, you know, like if I did shifts in birth suite, I would find, I would be praying the night before. I'd be praying on my way in. I would find it so intense of the possibility of what I was going to see or have to do. doing all the obstetric, nursey stuff was just, it just wasn't where I thrived. Like, she wants a lotus birth, you go in there Beth, cool. You know, like, yeah, doing water births when I hadn't quite got qualified and just like, I don't know what, she just got in and the baby came, you know? But yeah, and they knew that, they treated me really well in the hospital. Like they knew where my comfort was. But as far as I... don't thrive in obstetric emergencies that have been often contributed by action. Yeah. So I like the energy of home birth and the pace and the not doing. Yeah, yeah, sitting on your hands. And then I think it was around 2017 I put in for how many hours and it was quite a You have to go to every place you've worked and get all your record of hours. And I was a few hundred down. Like I didn't have the 5 ,000 and that was like. Cause it's going to be like 5 ,000 in a particular time period. Is that right? I can't remember. I think off the top of my head it is. But that, cause that would make sense. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So yeah. And I wasn't disappointed cause I just was starting to work in the group practice and. Yeah, I think that was 2015. And then I just checked again a year later. So it was all very slow. It was like an increments of just looking and then, yeah, and then I checked again and I had enough time hours and then I just applied and yeah, I got the endorsement. Yeah. Yeah. And so then you're allowed to attend as the primary midwife for home births. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, wow. What a journey. And so you have a daughter and she is like 18 or 19. So so I guess thinking about like your own childhood, like girlhood, initiation into womanhood compared to your your daughter and you know, you're obviously a midwife. Like are there certain things that you did differently? Because I know that you do these amazing, I forget what they're called, like girlhood circles. I don't know. So like, how, how was that process? I guess, you know, I guess, but I guess part of my reflection around this question is that I really feel that so many of the problems or challenges or issues or whatever name you want to put to it of the maternity system is that, you know, women just don't know their bodies. They're, you know, we're taught to, yeah. I mean, the education I, the very, very, very, very minimal education I got was like how not to get pregnant. It wasn't like anything after that, you know. Well, you'd be pleased to know that absolutely nothing has changed in the education system. They still get into absolutely nothing. It's just bizarre. I did a course early 2000s, Core of Life, about teaching sex education to year nine. It's written by some midwives the end of 90s. And it's actually amazing. But I couldn't, it was so hard to get into the schools. But my daughter was 11 and I wrote a workshop, walking the emerging woman and teaching them the basics of menstruation, starting their first period or if they've already had periods, they come along and learn. I think but just before I go into that, I think things are different now because of social media, like women are learning more about their bodies. And there's a lot more information like it's fantastic for that. Yeah, you know, but back then, So my daughter was turning 11 and it was like in this week where I was at work and this young woman, I was in the antenatal clinic and she was 36 weeks and you got mentioned a few things of preparing and got your tick list and I said something about the cervix and she just looked at me and I said, you don't know where your cervix is, do you? She went, no. And I went, it's okay. I went, most people don't. And we just chatted. Then I went home and my daughter was having a birthday and few 11 year olds who I've known since prep were coming over and we were hanging out and the mums had said that they'd talk to their girls but then I started kind of asking questions and then we were really comfortable because I've known them since they were little. And I just thought no they don't actually know that much and I said to them it just was one of those things that fell out my mouth again that sometimes happens. I was like if I wrote a workshop would you come? And they were like yeah and that's how that happened. And my daughter actually came to two workshops, the first two I did, because she came again. But the first time she came, I remember I was like, hey, bub, you just setting it out. There was lots of about 15 girls. I was like, you just sit next to me. She was like, no. And she just sat in front of me like opposite, like 12 and six o 'clock. I was so nervous because there's this point where I actually dress up as the reproductive system, which meant to be secret, but she didn't know that. So I'm like, no, she's just going to be like ABFAB. I don't know, you're probably too young for that, but they're these really pissed friends in London. They made a program and the daughter's really straight and I'm just like, my daughter's going to just see me dressed up as the fallopian chibs. She, cause she's not auditory, which is why I do it. She actually said, I really got it when you dressed up mom. Yeah. It was my friend's door. I was like, why did you dress up? You know, they, and so that's part of that catering. Like they all learn differently. Yeah. But interestingly, like a few years later when her cycle started, yeah, she was just like, I don't want anything. Don't invite your mates over. I don't want anything red. Like people presume that I've got this relationship with my daughter that's really a certain way because of what I teach. But she has her own personality and she has her own boundaries and she has her own, you know, she's like, no, I'm like, it's okay, babe. I'm like, I've got tears in my eyes. I've been really sad. And she's just like looking at me like. No, don't give me anything. I know that she knows. Yeah. And that's what's important. So it's there. She just doesn't want the bells and whistles. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. I shared recently with the birth attendant training I'm doing with Ria. We have like a little WhatsApp and I shared like a picture series that you had put on your Instagram of like all of these elaborately decorated Evolvers and I, and you know, but you know, how you've taken photos in the past and I shared and one of the, one of my peers in the group, she was like, I'm on the train and I'm crying. This is so beautiful. And like, that's, that's how it should be. And I think that's, yeah, isn't it crazy that we don't know about our bodies? Like, we're not taught. And I remember one woman was like, do you teach them about the moon and the tide? And I was like, no, I just teach them. I just want them to leave knowing they've got a reproductive system. There are three holes. One of them, the blood comes out of one of them. They poop out of one of them. And it's really, and it sounds crass how I'm talking, but it's, it's beautifully in, in, and it's so vulnerable for these young girls to come and listen to this woman they've never met. And I just want them to know. And we look at all the pads and tampons and cloth and cups and everything's a choice and I'm trying to like gently put in their beings, everything is a choice. You never have to use anything. You'll have to do something because there'll be blood. It's just very, like, about their bodies and everybody's vaginas look different or volvers look different and just making things okay. It's okay because most of us haven't had that. And the pictures, the artwork, some of them, like, do I have to? And I was like, just do one. And then sometimes they'll do one and then just... can do whatever they want after. But it's also the pathway. So if they are just do the reproductive, because it's up and they can see it, if they just do that and with stickers and feathers, and then that's also going into their being of understanding. It's another way in just, and some of them get, some of them are just, well, they're all amazing, but the artwork, I would have been the one that sat didn't know what to do. And there's always a couple of those in the room, like, that would have been me. And then others just get straight into it. It's not a competition. It's just fun. And I say that it's just another way that you'll know. It's like your digestive system. This is your reproductive system. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess more of a visualization without actually, you know, I think I've, mentioned at some other point about the of over wall of over art, where it's like images of how everyone's, you know, body looks different. And I think, you know, that creating your own, vulva, is like a representation of how like everyone looks different. And so I was in my second year at uni when I realized that I hadn't been with women. So I didn't know I'm watching all these births. Yep. I remember finding my sister going, my gosh, like everyone's vaginal looks different. So one of the things I teach the girls, I go and I go, what's this? And they go, your eyes and nose and mouth and everything. Right, but you all look different, but you all have the same anatomical parts, we call it. I said, your vaginas are the same. You all have named parts and there's diagrams in the pamphlets they get that they don't have to look at. I say, you don't have to look at now. You might never, or you might when you go home in private. I said that you all have the same named parts, but like all your faces are different, your volvers, vaginas, they're all different. And I want them to know it because I've seen some great documentaries about the exhibition in Tassie and because I didn't know that as an older, till I got older. And you know, you hear women like having surgery because they think because one of their labia is longer or their lips are bigger, like they don't realise, honestly. Yeah. So normal, so different. So yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so some of the work I do with the girls, it's subliminal messages to all, you know, it's just. Yeah, that's beautiful. I think, yeah, I really hope that someday I will be able to do that because yeah, I just think it's. I think it just like. It's very frustrating because it's obviously a part of our culture that you hear nothing about. And then suddenly you hear everything about like in terms of sex, like it's, I don't know where the turning point is, but like it just, there's no like middle gray, like learning. It's kind of like either you're not having sex and you're not knowing about your body. or then you are having sex and you're meant to know all of these things about your body. It's just, there's a disconnect. I think having a 19 year old and sort of just having a little look sometimes at her Netflix listing or even just seeing what comes up on my own because you know, you get to a point where you can't monitor them. Yeah. And she's really cool, but there's a lot of stuff I've been surprised she's seen. It's like, okay. some, I would say most of it is quite tasteful. It's just out there young. But it's not all porn, but then their brains are still like there are having conversations I've had with her. It's like your brain's still developing to actually process a lot of the information of what you might be seeing. You know that it was porn and, and, and, or harsh or hard, but it's, you don't necessarily need to watch that. I heard recently, I don't know where, but that they've done a study or something and that, I don't know if it was boys and girls, but definitely I have in my mind boys, the average age that they're exposed to porn is 10 years old. And I'm like, so Murphy's four. So in six years. Like it could be younger if he's around someone that has a phone or has a sibling that has a phone They only need to see something at once like But the adverts even the adverts are so sexual like I used to turn them off. Yeah, and she's and A couple of years ago not that long ago. She said to me. I know why you used to turn them off They're so sexual mum. I'm like, yeah, it wasn't all horror. Yeah, it just was Like when you have a child, you start to see what they're seeing, you know, and it's just like, woof. I mean, we wouldn't have to, you know, I had this tiny, we didn't have a TV for years, but when we did, it would be like really monitored and then it would be like, David, Edmonds. Just cause you can't, once they see things once, you can't take it out. Yeah, that's, yeah, it's gone. Anyway, it's sort of a bit of a tantrum there, but I just love the work that you do. And I think it's really cool and yeah, very impactful, like generationally as well, because like, I think, you know, those girls grow into women and, you know, as the red thread, you know? I guess. Yeah, it's making their first experience not... that it's not scary or alone or they have to hide or feel shame because that... you know, Jane Hardwick Collins teachings. And I understand from my own personal journey, you keep taking that through. Yeah. It's your menstrual cycle, your initiation into sex, your initiation into birth. It's like, boom, there's a thread. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I like wear my, I'm wearing my little red thread from a recent, mother blessing that I went through. It's just, that's just a random little information thing. But every time I look at it, I'm like, Yeah. And that was actually really beautiful. I love that. She's going to birth soon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was just, yeah, I'm not sure to the listeners if you've heard of Mother Blessings, but it's just, it was so intentional. And that you constantly exposed to like pictures of baby showers and stuff. And it always looks like super extravagant. And like, I've always got like this amazing cake and balloons and like, you know, whatever it is. That's totally fine. But this was just so intimate and like people were crying and it was just like the energy was totally different. It was amazing. But also like honoring that red thread. And then she can pull on that when she's in labor and she can feel those women that held her and it just, yeah. just shifting things. And it's this old stuff. Yeah. We're just re remembering. Yeah. Well, I think the first time I heard the red thread was in Rachel Reed's book where she talks about the history, which I mean, that's like a whole other thing. Cause I could talk about that for ages, but I love the history of all of that. I guess to like finish up Beth, like what would you say is the favourite part of Home Birth Midwifery for you? Like, what do you love the most? I almost get teary. There are moments and it's not always birth, like sometimes it might be an antenatal visit or a postnatal visit where often it is birth but you've come away and I just I'm just in so much I say thank you I just look up and say thank you because I can feel that I've been part of something so much bigger than myself. that there was so much benefit in how that moment birth or what came out in pregnancy or, and it's love, it's heart. But I say thank you for that I could do that, that I could be of service and as blah, blah, as that might sound, I know it's not me. Like on the way to a birth, I'll pray like in a healthy way to, you know, as in it's not just me. I'm not like, the responsibility can be quite overwhelming if I thought about it. So I'm like, please help. Please, maybe I listen, please, you know. So yes, and that's with love and intention. It's not an egoic, like it needs to be a certain way. Just it's, it's from my heart. And so yeah, the things about Home Birth, Midway Freer. are the moments that I know I'm exactly where I'm meant to be for the good of the greater picture. Yeah. Or community. It's that when I feel very small and the feeling is very big. Yeah. It's a purpose. I'm purposely living and the impact is for the greater good of so many. Yeah. You know, and it's not, it's, it's humbling. Like I say, I feel really small, but the feeling is huge. It just goes beyond. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of like how I feel about the mother blessing thing that we just talked about. Like it just, like I was there and I was one person, but the power that that's going to have is I mean, it's like, yeah, you throw the pebble into the water and like it ripples and just. I feel like what I do, like sim that the ripple is I say what I do affects the next seven generations. And that's, I'm such a tiny, teeny tiny piece of a humongous play movie. And I'm just, it just, the ripple, like you said, and I just go seven generations. whether it's the birth she wanted, not wanted, if there's love there and there's intent and there's honesty, even if it's different for our next birth, but that baby and that baby's ovaries, if it's a girl and the eggs and the memory and the dun, dun, dun, it just, and just the memory, you know, that is passed down. So. Yeah. Magic. Did that answer your question? It did. It did. That's magic. Thank you. Thank you so much for being, a guest in the midwife series on the podcast. Thank you for what you're doing and all the beautiful podcasts you're doing and the variation and it's great. It's really, it's nothing better than learning from other stories. It's the storytelling. Yeah. Learning what's possible and, yeah, I think, yeah, pretty much. Yeah, I learn something from every single episode that I do, even though I've heard so many stories now and will continue to hear so many stories. I get something from every, every person I speak to. And yeah, I think that that's powerful. And I hope other listeners experience that power as well. But thank you. Thank you, darling. See you soon.