Pre-conception homebirth planning, first time mum fast labour & experiences with HG + postpartum || Chloe's birth of Matilda at home (South Australia)

Episode 39 is shared by first time mum, Chloe, who had a homebirth with her baby Matilda. 
This story is actually pretty amazing - it’s not often that you come across birth at home stories, where the intention and prearation has spanned a number of years - especially with your first baby — which is what Chloe did and shares today! 
This is such a good example of how pregnancy and birth should be, feeling supported and an authority over your body and baby. Chloe also shares about her struggle with hyperemesis, her very fast labour, and her post partum journey. 


Resources: 

• Sisterwives Tv Show https://go.tlc.com/show/sister-wives-tlc
• Hilary Duff's Homebirth https://www.instagram.com/p/C6rZGXRPRM3/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
• Core Floor Restore Antenatal classes https://coreandfloor.com.au/products/antenatal-classes
• Hyeremesis Gravidarum https://www.hyperemesis.org/about-hyperemesis-gravidarum/
• Waterproof blanket https://splashblanket.com/collections/the-original

Learn more about me, my offers as a doula & the podcast here: https://www.birthingathome.com.au

Chapters

• 36:25 Preparing for a Home Birth
• 54:34 The Rapid Progression of Labour
• 1:45:00 Postpartum

Transcript

0:02

You're listening to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I recorded this episode on unceded Wurundjeri land in Nam, Melbourne, Australia, where Aboriginal peoples had been birthing at home on country for thousands of years prior to the British invasion. They are the original storytellers. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast or how I can support you in achieving your home birth, be sure to check out my Instagram at birthingathome.com. underscore a podcast. This is episode 39 and it's shared by a first time mom, Chloe from South Australia, who had a home birth with her baby Matilda. This story is actually pretty amazing. It's not often that you come across birth at home stories where the intention and preparation has spent a number of years, especially with your first baby, which is exactly what Chloe did and shares with us today. This is such a good example of how pregnancy and birth should be feeling supported. and an authority over your body and baby. Chloe also shares about her struggle with hyperemesis, her very fast labor and her postpartum journey. Enjoy. Welcome Chloe to Birthing at Home, a podcast. hi Elsie. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you for having, thank you for having me. See I'm off put because everybody, Chloe's, Chloe's setup is so good and she looks like a professional podcast. Looks like being the key word here. Looks, looks. If you can see the picture quality, it's very good. But it's not your office or not your room. Not my space, totally borrowed from my husband. What I'll get you to do, Chloe, is give a bit of background about who you are, who's in your family, where you live, that kind of thing. Yeah, so we live in South Australia in Adelaide. I live with my husband and our 15 month old Matilda and our two dogs and our four birds. Four birds. Four birds. Yeah. Have you had the birds longer than the dogs or? No, no, no. So we've got an 11, a 12 year old dog and a four year old dog. And then we have four birds because our daughter loves birds. And so we thought it was best to let a 14 month old guide our pet choices. That's brilliant. So misguided. So we now have also two finches and two canaries and it's just a little bit of bedlam, but that's okay. That's amazing. And your 15 month old Matilda. Yeah. She was born at home. She was born at home. So yeah, she was born in February of 20. What year are we in? 2023? 20. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, she was born February, 2023 at home. And yeah, and we had a private midwife who nearly didn't make it for her birth. So she was an accidental free birth. Before you were pregnant, with her? Like, did you know of Home Birth? Because I get the sense that in South Australia, like Home Birth isn't like super big. What's your kind of take on that? Yeah, I certainly can't speak overall for South Australia. I mean, I we are very, very blessed. We got became part of a beautiful Home Birth community after Matilda was born. So it seems in our circle like Home Birth is just like the norm. But I, you know, obviously I've got other friends who are not in that, in that circle and, you know, we're friends before I got pregnant and such. And yeah, certainly it's not like the go-to and there was a, we still had a lot of that like, gosh, you're a little bit crazy. But yeah, I don't know. I think, yeah, like I said, it's a little bit hard for me to judge, to say, because it's, Like for us, I'm just like, we once a month go hang out with a bunch of other people who are home birth. Yeah. You know, they, they are, they have become our community and our friends. So in our circle, it seems really like, yeah. And like, why would you do anything different? but I'm sure lots of other people don't feel that way. But, I had been looking into home birth for many years before I got pregnant. So we sort of knew it was something we wanted to do. before well before I was pregnant. yeah. So I guess in that sense too, we kind of like, we didn't really engage with the hospital system, when I was pregnant. So we kind of didn't get exposed, exposed in a major sense to a lot of that kind of typical, stuff you do first time or as first time parents, you know, trying to navigate that system. We were just like hanging out at home with our private midwife and it was lovely. So, yeah. like, growing like do you remember maybe the first time you might have heard of Home Birth because that's pretty cool that you like had known for a number of years, especially because it's so expensive. But like known for a couple of years if that's the path that you were going to take, like was there something in particular that like triggered that journey or? I was actually thinking about this today. And I feel like it was something I knew about like, for a long, like probably since I was, I don't know, maybe a teenager. I don't really remember like the first time I was like, home birth is a thing. But I kind of knew that people did it. But probably similar to a lot of people you've had on the podcast. Like I wasn't like, you know, at like, I don't know, 13 years old, like, yeah, I'm going to have a home birth. Like I think I kind of knew it happened. But then I was thinking about it today and I was like, you know, I feel like it kind of came into my awareness a bit more in kind of from lots of different areas of my life. Like I, followed a few people on Instagram and then they had maybe like a birth center birth and I was like, that's interesting. And so, and then there might've been people who had, you know, kind of talked about home birth. Maybe they wish they'd had one or whatever. And then, but even things like, I don't know whether people are into this, but like I'm an avid TLC. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, there's lots of like stories about people's lives, you know, that kind of thing. I'm sure they are. you know, a bit Kardashian -esque and not entirely factual. However, like that was something I've, you know, I watch a lot, had watched a lot of in the past. And so even just things sort of coming out of like America from different people coming out of different communities and on those kinds of shows, they would have home births occasionally and that kind of stuff. And I was like, okay, these are people that I'm like watching, interested in. And so I just feel like it kind of came into my, and it wasn't, you know, it wasn't people who were like, I don't know. in the middle of the woods, like having their baby in the heart, you know what I mean? Like regular enough people by the seams of it. So it kind of started that way, I think. And then I was like, okay, I think I'm interested in this for me. And so started kind of looking into things a little bit more as my husband and I prepared. Like we knew we wanted to have kids. So, you know, well, before I got pregnant, we were kind of talking about these, you know, what, what we might do and that kind of stuff. And so I think it over time, it grew, you know, initially it was like, you know, a TV show here or there or a post on Instagram. And then I was sort of actively seeking out, you know, what's it like to be pregnant? What's it like to have a conscious conception? And, and I think naturally, when you go down those like conscious conception, more spiritual connection to children kind of path, like naturally, a lot of that content kind of goes hand in hand. Yeah. And so I think then it sort of became like, okay, this is this is a path I'm really interested in it feels really resonant for me. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I, I've recorded a lot of stories, but like, I feel like there's definitely not a lot of people that come across it. Like you have like the fact that it had sort of gently been normalized as just like, just an option that you could, or might not like, you know, either way. Like over a number of years and like even that you feel that you were exposed to it through just stuff that you were watching and like things that you were consuming. Like that's pretty incredible. Like that's how it should be. For sure. For sure. And I mean, you can cut this out if you want, but like definitely shout out to like, sister wives. There's a solid amount of home birth. content on that show. It's not going to be everyone's jam. It's about polygamists and such. I find it interesting. But yeah, I don't know. There's just like quite an amount of content on like TLC type shows that just had like, it was just part of their life. And yeah, I think that was really cool. You know, like it's really cool to be, to just have it represented. Like you say, just kind of normalized and like, this might not be your choice, but here's how other people are doing. That's really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think it did. It gave me that gentle introduction and just really made it less like, I don't know, I kind of err on the like hippie side. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so it, you know, it's not like odd. Yeah. Yeah. There was so many people like only find out about it when they're already pregnant, you know, or after they pretty much like, I don't know what the stats are, but. people are only finding home birth after they've had a really horrible experience in the hospital system, whether that's in a birth center or in a hospital. And it's just, yeah, that's like, that's so lovely. The talk about like, like TV and movies and stuff reminded me of, did you see that Hillary Duff had her? Yeah. Baby, or I don't know how many babies she has but another home birth. Yeah I actually just saw the photos this morning and like I am a little bit of a diehard Hilary Duff fan. Yeah me too. I was so excited when I saw that. I was like And I think even things like that I think I probably saw some of her Content from her first home birth. I don't know how many years ago that was now. Yeah ages. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Around the time I was starting to sort of become more aware that this was a choice. I mean, I was like, like lots of people are making this choice. Like, this isn't just like one little subset of our population that are making this choice. I think that kind of, I mean, my life and Hilary Duff's life are very different. Yeah. I don't mean to cast judgment, but I feel like our financial situations are probably quite different too. But anyway, that aside. For sure. But I think it is, it's good to see lots of people, you know, different people from all different, walks of life, I suppose. Yeah, representing that home birth is really an option you can you can take or you can leave but it's available. If you well, you hope it's available. Yeah, it's permitting. Yeah. You know, to a lot of people and it's not it. Yeah, I don't know. It's it's not this like terrifying thing that people painted out to be like, my God, you're so reckless for having a home birth. It's like, no, people just choose to have home birth. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like crazy reckless thing that we're all doing. Yeah, you're hyping it up to be something that's just not. Yeah. Is there any like particular resources or, you know, education kind of stuff that you engaged in that you found particularly helpful? Can I give a little shout out? Yeah. Okay. So B from Core and Floor in Victoria. We... I didn't find her content till after I got pregnant, a friend recommended it to me. But my husband and I did her online free antenatal classes whilst I was pregnant. And that was really like there was some content in there that was definitely supportive for families who were choosing to have a hospital birth. But there was a lot of content in there that was super helpful for home births and I had B has had two home births herself. And so, you know, it's Yeah, that was so helpful. Like there was just like so much really quality content in there and it was totally free and it was just hours and hours and hours of, antenatal stuff more than what you would get in hospital and really practical stuff. and you can just watch the videos for free in the company of your own home. So that was super helpful. however, I'd done a lot. like I sort of said before, I, I've done a lot, I had done a lot of listening to podcasts and reading books and following people on Instagram and all of that kind of stuff well before I got pregnant. Like I would say probably maybe in around 2019 or so I really started like listening to birth stories and heavily kind of researching, I suppose. However, I'd worked with children and families for a really long time. prior to that in an early education setting. So I'd been thinking about having my own children and stuff for a very long time. And it was something that my husband and I talked about quite often. But yeah, before we even got married, I was sort of listening to podcasts, filling my Instagram feed with that kind of stuff from midwives and all of those kind of doulas, that kind of thing. So by the time I got pregnant, a lot of the information around birth wasn't, new, like it was just like, okay, now we need to contextualize this to our specific circumstance where we are because leading up to getting pregnant, we'd moved states. And then we'd lived, so we were living in Melbourne when we met and got married. And then we moved back to Adelaide about 18 months or so, maybe just under 18 months before I got pregnant. And so we'd moved house like to Adelaide, then we moved house again. And it was just like, there'd been a lot of, change. And so it wasn't like we just kind of needed to go, okay, we're in our home now. And these are the people we have in our area that we can choose from to support us. And then also like if we're having a home, but this is the home we have. So this is the space we have. And, you know, it's just kind of contextualizing it in that way. But in terms of like the actual physiology of birth, there wasn't a lot that we hadn't already. looked into or understood and getting pregnant. Like I did an at home pregnancy test. I told my husband and then like that night I texted the midwives that we'd. This is how it should be. This episode I feel is going to be like how home birth should be because it shouldn't, you know, I hear so many stories of like, you know, even, you know, at X amount of weeks that the woman might be like, okay, I want to do a home birth. And then it spans like the rest of the pregnancy trying to convince the partner and like win the partner over and you know, to the benefits and pros of home birth. And it's just like, my gosh, it's so exhausting. It's so stressful. And I mean, like the, yeah, the first time we ever spoke about. home birth, like I have such a vivid memory of this, we weren't even married yet. And we were sitting, we were engaged and we were sitting in a restaurant in Melbourne at like, I don't know, 830 at night having dinner as single people with our children. And I'd said to him, like, you know, I'd be doing all this listening and reading and researching and whatever. And I'd kind of come to this decision of like, I don't want to be in a hospital to have our babies. And I said to him, as I pitched it to him and I was like, you know, I think like doing this research, I think I would like to have a home birth. What do you think about that? And he's like, I think I would like you to be in a hospital with every possible medical professional you can have around. my God. I'm so excited to talk to Tom after this. Yeah. Yes. What a contrast. Right? And I mean, this is just kind of like the nature of his life is like, here, I'm going to do a crazy thing. And he's like, I don't really love that idea. I'm not vibing my head. But yeah, and so he really was in that like, no, this is not comfortable for me. I'm not okay with this. Yeah. But because we kind of started talking about it. Well, like, you know, like I said, we weren't married, we were planning our wedding, we were not. trying to have a baby at that time. And so we knew we had some time to kind of, we didn't, you know, I don't know, it didn't feel imminent. I feel like if I was already pregnant, it would, that would have been so stressful to be on such different pages and trying to like come together on that. So we had years. So yeah, that was probably 2019. And then we didn't conceive our daughter until 2022. So, you know, we had a good three plus years to kind of navigate that. And, the time I got pregnant, I think he was still a little bit like, I know this is really what you want to do, but I'm not 100 % there, but I'm like most of the way there. And I was like, I'm texting the midwife. Yeah. And I knew the midwives in our area and in Adelaide, especially, pulled out really quickly. And I knew that you had to get in contact with them quite quickly or you risked not getting a place. And I really wasn't. keen to go through a group practice because I just heard really mixed reviews. And I was kind of concerned about we weren't sure what prenatal tests and stuff we wanted to do. And I didn't want to end up in the group practice and then have our spot taken away because we didn't want to do something that they felt was necessary. Yeah, that was one of the criteria. Yeah. Yeah. So we'd kind of gone with a private, already chosen that we'd go with a private midwife. Yeah. For that reason. Yeah. And so yeah, literally before my own family knew. Yeah. I mean, that's like sorted. That's the reality. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You got to get in. And that's what I mean. Like so many, so many women only find out about home birth like way too late. And then I see quite often in Facebook groups, like moms that are, you know, 30 plus weeks being like, like, I want to have a home birth or something's happened and I've been kicked out of this program or something like, it's like, yeah, that's very, very stressful. So stressful. And we just, yeah, I was not, I was not about that life. No, no. I was not about that life. I was like, you know what, we're just, we're, and I'm a relatively organized person. I guess that will depend on who you are. But in this situation, I was like, I know what we want. you know, where we're ready, you know, to kind of lock everything in. And so we were really lucky. We actually had the choice of two different midwives in our area through one group of private midwives. Because yeah, we found out like super early. I was only like three and a half weeks along when we found out. So yeah, we had an opportunity to kind of meet a couple of midwives and make a decision. And we ended up with, yeah, a midwife that was just the best for us and our family. And And we still see her. Like I literally saw her last week and it was just like, it's just like the most beautiful gift that she's part of our community. And yeah, we can go like have a coffee with her and yeah. It's just so lovely. that's so beautiful. So what was your pregnancy like then? My pregnancy was a little bit tricky. I had, I kind of am loathe to label it, but I had hyperemesis in the beginning. It was a very, very mild in terms of hyperemesis. but in terms of like living my life, it was very problematic. And so I basically didn't get out of bed for about the first 15 weeks of my pregnancy. And I did work, but not at the capacity I had been pre -pregnancy. And I basically would work like half a day and then be in bed for a day and a half. So yeah, certainly in terms of others I know who have had HG. I was very lucky. Yeah. But it's all relative, right? Like, you know, I would spend my mornings like at 5am Googling like, why is pregnancy so hard? Because I just felt so awful all the time. And I was like, I've wanted this baby for as long as I can remember. Yeah. And now I just feel so awful all the time. And I want I want the baby, but I don't want this experience. Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah, that was, that was really tough because I just kind of, I think I'd prepared a lot for birth. I was, I felt really prepared for birth and postpartum too, actually. We'd done a lot of prep for postpartum. and I kind of forgot to research pregnancy. I was like, yeah, yeah, you just like get pregnant and you're just like, it's just gross. You get bigger. You'll be fine. You know, you get a few aches and pains, whatever, and it'll be fine. And you just like, then you do the thing that I've researched. And you have a baby. And then you forget all the tricks. I know all the moves. I was all up on the first 40 days. I was ready for that. I was not prepped to be flat on my ass for the first like three months of my pregnancy. I was not ready for that. So yeah, that was tough. It was, it was, it was not what I expected. And obviously it meant we kind of took a hit to our income a lot earlier than we expected. at the time, my father -in -law was also living with us. And so, you know, him, my husband and my father -in -law really had to pick up a lot around the house. because we were a pretty cohesive household that, you know, had three contributing members and suddenly I was in bed and couldn't do anything. and yeah, so that kind of cleared up early in my second trimester. But it was, yeah, it was tough because I had that and then I got COVID and then I got a flu and it was just a really rough first kind of three to four months. Yeah. And then my second trimester, it got better. I still had a lot of heartburn and that sort of stuff. And then sort of towards the middle to end of my second trimester, I actually started feeling pretty good. I had a lot of aches and pains and stuff, but. like really comparatively to not being able to get out of bed, not being, like I literally couldn't even stand up to unload the dishwasher, like nothing. So the aches and pains, I was like, yeah, this is, I expected this, like I can work with this. But because I'd had to slow down my work in my first trimester so significantly, I didn't really work a lot through the remainder of my pregnancy. So it kind of gave me this opportunity to be really slow. So I think potentially those aches and pains and the other kind of typical things might've been. more problematic had I been trying to keep up a regular workload. Yeah. What do you usually do for work? Sorry. I worked with education services outside of school hours, cares and early learning services as a consultant. So I trained them in children's, but how to understand children's behavior and trauma and supporting children's emotions and emotional wellbeing and all that kind of thing. Ran professional learning sessions and that kind of stuff. So I, Yeah, did pretty not erratic hours, but it wasn't a nine to five. Yeah, so a bit all over the place and I would spend sometimes four days in childcare centers, observing and taking notes, giving feedback, that kind of stuff. And then I might back to back, you know, do a training session or something that evening, that kind of thing. Yeah, which is probably potentially worth noting, like at the beginning of my pregnancy, I was about five weeks, I think. And I'd had some nausea and stuff starting already. And I had a super long day. I worked all day in the center and then went to a different center and ran a two hour training session in the evening. And the next day I actually had some bleeding. And that's when my HD really kicked off after that. And so I'm actually wondering whether there was some kind of correlation there when my body was just saying you can't do this. Your body was like, gotta send more messages to slow this person down. Yeah. So it is interesting because it did. It did work. I mean, I had to slow down. I didn't have a choice. And we were very lucky. Everything was okay. And our daughter kept growing fine. And it was just sort of a once -off bleed and stuff. But it was a bit humbling too. Like, because I just kind of thought you get pregnant, you go about your life, you work, you go on maternity leave. You know, that's what everybody does. And, you know, I'd had friends say, I remember when I was pregnant, I just napped in the, you know, lunch room at lunchtime, whatever. And I was like, Okay, I guess that's just what we do, right? But that wasn't what I did. Yeah, my experience. And I guess what I've come to find in recent times is there's a lot of people in my circle who also felt like how do people just keep up with this, this actually isn't okay for me. Yeah. Which is nice to hear because I think sometimes we obviously everybody's pregnancy is different. But I think some people put on a really brave face and push through their day. And you don't know how much they're struggling. Yeah. to get through that and especially in those early weeks where maybe you haven't told anybody. Yeah. So that was, yeah, it was a really interesting learning experience. Just pausing here, everyone, to thank the June sponsor of the podcast, which is Earthy Birth. If there is one thing that has been missing from the home birth scene, it is aesthetically pleasing birth pools until now. Earthy Birth is a small family owned business. and they're proud to offer professional quality off -white berth pools made from thick eco PVC and are designed for 40 plus uses. That's a lot of home births guys. They also offer stunning disposable floor length liners uniquely designed so that they protect the whole pool and that they don't slip off into the pool. Not only that, the liners come with optional artistic designs printed on the base to make your birth space even more beautiful. Earthy Birth also stocks plenty of other home birth supplies such as hoses, tap adapters, pumps, robozos, birth combs, fairy lights, and much more, all in gorgeous earthy tones. They offer both purchase and hire with free shipping Australia -wide for all orders over $50. Visit earthybirth .com .au today. Thanks so much, Earthy Birth, and enjoy the rest of this episode, everybody. The second half of my pregnancy was actually really lovely. I am... Yeah, I really settled into being pregnant and I really enjoyed as our daughter got a bit bigger, like nobody warned me that when a little fetus is flipping around, it feels like you're going down a roller coaster, except you never know what's coming. And it just like always felt like my stomach was dropping. Yeah. And I didn't enjoy that sensation. So as she got a bit bigger and it was like kicks, proper kicks and movements. I was like, yeah, this is, this is nice. I enjoy this. But you couldn't like do a full rotation anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, the second half of my pregnancy was really nice. Like I said, I had a lot of aches and pains and sciatic pain, that kind of thing, but all just kind of pretty normal, I think. But we were really lucky because we had our private midwife. So all of our appointments were done at home. We didn't have to go to the hospital and sit around there feeling awful for hours while we waited for a doctor or anything like that. So there was more than one appointment she conducted while I laid in bed. Yeah, yeah. And she, you know, sort of we had a chat and that kind of stuff while I just rested, which was lovely. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, all in all, I think my pregnancy was other than not feeling super well for the first half or so and, you know, aches and pains. Yeah. It was pretty uneventful in most regards. You know, we had a pretty stable life. We just bought our house shortly before I got pregnant. So. We were just kind of settling into our home and yeah, yeah, it was all pretty chill. There wasn't any major, you know, bumps, I guess, in terms of the baby's health. We didn't have a lot of tests or interventions. We had a couple of scans in the early weeks when I'd had some that bleeding just because I was quite anxious about miscarriage. So only because we've, you know, one in four. And we know a lot of the people who are the one. And so I was aware that not all pregnancies end in a baby. And so we'd had a couple of scans around the bleeding just to make sure everything was going okay. And then a scan, a morphology scan at about 18 weeks just to make sure all the organs were inside her body and the limbs were on the outside. You know, was there anything in particular that you declined or that you're like, that's not for us? Yeah, like basically everything, to be honest, like we did. We had like my blood pressure checked at each antenatal appointment and occasionally our midwife used the Doppler to check like heartbeat and stuff, but we didn't have that at every appointment. And that was honestly more so because we kind of, you know, I guess if we were in the hospital system, we probably would have had a few more ultrasounds and stuff. And so my husband really enjoyed hearing that the heartbeat. That was, you know, it was really nice for him, but we probably, yeah, only did that a handful of like maybe twice at home. Didn't have any gestational diabetes testing, didn't have a GBS test. I don't know, probably a little bit. stuff that other people do. I was just like, I don't know, I'm not into it. No, not really. Yeah, we just I felt fine. Like I felt sick at the beginning, I felt really strong in my intuition that everything was okay. Yeah. And, you know, her movements were really good. And the growth was like, we always did. Fondle height measurements at 1880 appointments and everything was growing fine. And I was feeling good. And once I could eat again, you know, I was able to eat pretty well. And so yeah. I just didn't feel like there was any need to, I was really checking in with myself and I was like, it's fine, we're good. And because we weren't seeing a bunch of doctors or, I don't know, we saw our midwife like once a month, which I guess is pretty standard. But we didn't, I don't know, she was really respectful, super respectful, like honestly just the best midwife for our family and our choices because when we said, look, we don't really want a lot of scans, she was like, fine, no problems. when we said we didn't want Doppler check, she was like, she would just offer, she would bring it with us with every appointment and say, do you want me to check? And we'd say yes or no. And she, it was just, it was literally just an option. There was never a, I really need to check or I really need to know this or I really need to know that. I was just like, you get to choose and I've got this tool here if you want to make use of it. And honestly, most of our sessions were like, sit down, have a cup of tea and talk. That's brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. That's such a, it's so interesting because, Like for both of my home births, I had midwives that weren't a part of like a midwifery group practice in the sense of like hospital midwifery group practices, but they were their own like group of midwives. And so they had like a clinic that you would go to and like they would come to your house at the end of pregnancy. But certainly the initial, you know, the first and the second trimester or whatever. And, Yeah, half or most of the third trimester. We're in the clinic and I just think, my gosh, that's so nice that they come to your house. Especially, yeah, because, yeah, when you feel like, ugh, and also like when you're like super. pregnant, like getting in the car and like driving and then you gotta, you know, move both legs. So you're like, yeah, your pelvis is lined up and just all of the things. so many things to think about. She would often walk in the door and I'll be like, I'm only just like sorting my breakfast out. So yeah, sorry. We're going to sit here while I eat, you know, that's brilliant. Honestly. Yeah. I, we could not have had a better experience in that regard. Like it was. I mean, in every regard, to be honest, but yeah, it like that really saved us because in those early weeks, before we decided which midwife we were going to go with, and I'd had the bleeding and stuff and, and I was just starting to feel really sick before we'd locked in a midwife. And so I had gone to the GP, firstly, just to get a blood test to confirm the pregnancy. And then I was feeling really sick. And so I went back to just kind of be like, is there anything I can do? Yeah. And just that one time going back when I felt so sick was horrific. Like, and not because of anything the doctor did, just because like sitting in a waiting room, you feel like you're going to chuck your guts up everywhere. Yeah. He's God awful. Yeah. Well, think about all of the women that have HG that are going through the hospital system that would have to spend hours and then add on to the fact that, you know, in some situations that you've got to bring your other kids. Yeah. So you're sitting in this waiting room for two hours. I don't know, with heaps of other people in pretty plain Jane chairs that are not actually very supportive at all with these kids. And you're feeling like, like, is there anything worse? Honestly, that honestly, literally my worst nightmare. Yeah, right. Like we deserve better. Like, absolutely. yeah, that's so someone who will come to our bedside and take our blood pressure while we lay down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What does, yeah, that's, and the fact that this is like your first birth story, like your first baby, like just amazing because. Yeah, like we've already talked about, most people are only encountering after they've already figured out how, you know, they've already experienced how craft it is. Absolutely. And I mean, I had friends who were also pregnant around the same time as me, who opted for hospital birds. And so I was kind of seeing that direct comparison of their experience and my experience and hearing their frustrations about their mid - like the, and these are Like some friends had midwives assigned to them and were having significant issues with that. And, you know, so it was really, I know how lucky we are to have had the experience we had, because not like, I mean, I listened to a lot of birth stories prior to getting pregnant, but also just like the people in our immediate circle, you know, I was seeing in real time our experience and their experiences and they were very different. Yeah. Yeah. I've had the exact same. kind of contrasting experience, like being pregnant at the same time as somebody else. And yeah, just wild. When you like, so you and Tom had sort of had this gradual introduction to the world of home birth and you know, what about like, you know, pre having that home birth community, like friends, family, colleagues. Did you encounter anything during your pregnancy that was positive or negative in that regard? I had actually told my mum a number of years before I got pregnant that we were thinking about a home birth because I anticipated, like I heard so many stories of people saying, he fought with our family and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I just don't want that. And like my, so my Tom's family doesn't live in South Australia. Yeah. And so we sort of only got the opportunity to see them once during my pregnancy. And then my family is here. And my mom was probably the only one who would really have voiced an opinion. Yeah, sure. And not in a negative way, but it just if she had concerns or you know, whatever. And so I was like, I'm going to tell her in advance. So she's got time and we can have the conversation if we do before it gets to like, I'm full of pregnancy hormones. Yeah. Yeah. Why don't you agree with me? And so I told her a number of years before, like, I think I might have a home birth. Yeah. And she was like, okay. and she had quite a quick birth with me, like four hours in the hospital. Yeah. And she was like, to be fair. Like when we had the conversation, she was like, to be fair, if I'd known my labor with you was going to be so quick, I probably would have had a home birth too. And I was like, that's really interesting. And so that was kind of the first conversation. And then we didn't talk about it until I got pregnant. So that was, you know, like sort of three years or something like that. And then, yeah, I got pregnant and I was like, we're having a home birth. And she was like, and I was, I literally was just like, we have made our decision and I need you to not. you know, we're not bringing negative energy into the space. I probably didn't say that to my mum because she was like, you f**k. Negative energy, what are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But basically I said, you know, to her, like, we've made this decision, we feel really comfortable with it. Yeah. And that's the end of the conversation. Yeah. And it didn't come up again. It didn't. And then we kind of, we're just mindful about who we told in the circles. Not that we kept it from anybody, but there were just, you know, we've got some people in our, in our friends and family who are very medically minded. And we guessed that maybe they might feel a bit concerned. And we just didn't feel the need to have big conversations with other people about the choice that we'd made. I guess for us, like, because like I'm from Adelaide, Tom's lived all over New South Wales. We met in Victoria and like, so we kind of have people spread out all over the place. So a lot of the people that we are close to us, aren't necessarily close to us in proximity. So it was kind of like, well, it's not like you're going to be popping around and going to bust in on a home birth. So, so we were just sort of like, we will tell some people and other people will find out after she's born. But there were people, you know, like, in our lives, colleagues and stuff of both of us who, you know, would say, what hospital are you? Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And we were like, we're not. And most people to me were like, that's really brave. Yeah, that was like the line I got all the time was like, you're so brave. And I was like, we don't have to fear birth. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, it was, I was like, that's okay. If that's how you feel, you know, I just kind of, we didn't really engage with it. We just kind of left it alone. And we're like, if you feel like it's really brave, that's cool for you. We feel like it's the right thing for us. And we just didn't engage in a lot of discourse. Cause yeah, I mean, to be honest, I'm just not a very confrontational person. So I was like, I just don't feel like getting into the whole thing with you and all of your worries about my vagina. I actually just like don't. I don't really think that has to be a conversation we need to have. And so the people we told were mostly good. We did well before I got pregnant, we kind of floated the idea past some people we knew when we were deciding whether to move back to South Australia about possibly moving to New South Wales because the free birth laws were a little bit less intense there. And that did not go down well. And so we kind of were like, okay, we see where some people in our life are sitting. And we're just gonna not participate that conversation with you any further because we don't. Yeah. We don't need to have an argument about it because it's not going to affect you. Yeah. So yeah, everybody was pretty, everybody was pretty chill. I don't really remember anybody having like a major problem. The only person we do have one person who we were pretty sure would have like some big feelings and would probably try and voice them in a respectful way. Yeah. Yeah. and she, she asked us like, what, what hospital are you having the baby out or something? And they didn't want to know the gender of the baby. And we'd know that point. And I like accidentally was like, she, and it totally derailed the conversation. I was like, whew. But totally by a slip of the tongue. So funny because it just like derailed that entire conversation. A lot of people would just say to us like, are you far from the hospital? And we'd be like, no, 11 minutes. We're not going to use it, but it's only 11 minutes. Fun fact, the supermarket, you know, five minutes. Do you want to know that too? Yeah, that's right. And so that did help us as well. Cause yeah, a lot of people would just kind of casually be like, are you far from the hospital? And we'd be like, not at all. No, we're really close. And then we just didn't have to have the conversation about whether or not we were going to partake in the hospital. Yeah. So, yeah, that was, we were pretty lucky, I think we were, and I think we were also pretty educated around the fact that like not everybody is going to have a positive response. And so we made intentional choices about how we spoke about it to people. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, most, most of us end up choosing that because yeah, at the end of the day, like, There's most people you're not going to be able to convince, you know, like the cultural perspective on birth is so freaking strong. Like a home birth story or two is not going to change that, unfortunately. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. So when did you finish work? I think I finished up work around the... Sometime around the end of January. Okay, yeah. I think it was right at the very end of January, might have been like a week or so before. Yeah, and she was born in February. She was born on the 10th of February. Yeah. So I had a couple of weeks where I wasn't working, but I'd also been really winding down. Yeah. So like, whilst I did finish up work in January, like I was not working with any kind of consistency. Yeah. It's not like I was working a couple of days a week or anything like that. Like it was maybe like, a half a day here and a little bit of admin there and you know that kind of stuff. So it was yeah, it was pretty, I'd been winding up probably since my first trip. I'd been like really wrapping things up. Yeah. And the work I did do was predominantly at home. So I wasn't trying to go out, you know, at like a million weeks pregnant. And a lot of my work required me to drive quite far so I really just couldn't. be in the car for an hour to go and do stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so I wrapped that up. Yeah, about like January. And then I actually thought I felt for my whole like probably my whole third trimester that I was not going to make it to like, 40 weeks. Yeah, okay. You know, due date. Yeah, yeah. But I just kind of had this feeling the whole time. Like, I'm not going to get there. Yeah. And so we talked to her middle life a lot because I was like, what happens like at what point is it too early for me to stay home? And so we'd had a lot of conversations around at what point she would say, okay, I really actually think you need to be in the hospital. And so we basically just waited till we got to like the day that she said, like she would feel comfortable. And it wasn't, it didn't feel, I don't know, it didn't feel like, her dictating. It was a really collaborative conversation. Like at what point do we feel like our baby's lungs would be appropriately developed and you know, all of that kind of stuff. And what point would Tom feel comfortable and I feel comfortable. Yeah, so it was kind of, I was sort of waiting for the day where it ticked over to where she was like, okay, you'll be you'll be fine to stay home. And once that day kind of ticked over, I was like, okay, we're good. Yeah, good. And because I kind of been really anxious about something happening that would have. Yeah. You know, our plans, because in my very first trimester, my HCG was super high and our GP actually thought I could have been having twins. wow. I literally saw like my, my home birth plans like slip away. We obviously didn't have twins. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was only one baby in there the whole time. but, yeah. So I think that kind of started me off on that foot of like, I really hope nothing happens. Yeah. you know, would trip us up because Tom didn't feel comfortable with free birth and. Yeah. the nature of our relationship and decision making is that like we, we make decisions together. If he didn't feel comfortable that I wasn't, I wasn't going to do that because I needed him to support me. And, and I respected the fact that he, you know, I know a lot of people like it's my body, it's my birth and that's cool if that's, good for your family, but for us, that just wasn't how we made decisions. And so, yeah, I was like, if, if anybody, he or I didn't feel comfortable. then we would have been in the hospital and I really didn't want that. So I was really waiting for that day so that when that day ticked over, I was like, yes, okay, we're good. We're good. did you have any conversations like for the other end of that? Like, to what point was the midwife able to support you to like, was it 42 weeks or 43 or was it kind of just, I think. It was pretty flexible, to be honest. I don't think she ever actually, cause I did ask her and I don't think she ever kind of put a day on it. And was like, when you get to this, but our midwife is really well -versed as all midwives should be in the physiology of birth and pregnancy and that, you know, everybody is different and that date does not dictate anything. And so, I wonder sometimes whether she was intentionally vague because she was like, yeah, whatever, it's fine. We'll just, we'll figure it out. You know what I mean? Don't put a number on it because it just doesn't, it doesn't matter. Your body will do what your body needs to do. And I think a little bit too, like I just wasn't super worried about that because I just didn't think I was going to go that far. And it wasn't a naivety. It wasn't like, first time, I'm just going to be pregnant for 40 weeks and on my due date, I'm just going to pop out a baby. That's going to be lovely. I was just like, I know, like mentally, like I said to my midwife the whole way through, I was like, I know first time moms often go, you know, over 40 weeks. I know. I'm not going to get to 40 weeks. Like I'm not like other first time moms. It wasn't like, I'm not going to, I'm just, I was just like, I just don't think I'm going to get there. And she was like, okay. And I was like, listen, I'm prepared that I might go over like I like, you know, over that date. but I just feel, I just have a feeling. And she was born at 39 weeks one day. Yeah. But I was prepared that we might go over. So we had had those conversations, but she was just like, it's not a problem. And I was just kind of like intuitively, I don't think we need to worry about it. Yeah. And so we didn't talk about it a ton, but she was pretty, yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah, chill about it. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have any signs of like labor like before it actually started? So about 10 days before she was born, because we'd said the whole time, like generally when people were asking a due date, like we didn't tell a lot of people. And so we were like, she was due on the 16th of February. Yeah. And so we were like, somewhere between January and March. Yeah. We are going to have a baby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that was kind of what we told people, most people. And on the 31st of January, I started having, like, I thought I was going into labor. And I had like contractions. I, we saw our midwife that morning and she was like, I can't, like, I can't feel her head anymore because she's deeply engaged. I then went off to a chiropractor appointment who was like, I, your sacrum has. fully shifted to make room for her head. I was having contractions on the way to the chiropractor. I was having contractions when I got home. I had to kind of, I was trying to make lunch and I had to sort of stop and lean on the kitchen counter and breathe through them. I'd had a lot of pelvic floor tension and I was like, geez, like today might be the day. But also I have to go to the Asian grocery store because I've got things to make. I don't have time for this. I am not ready for my first 40 days yet. I've got to find my red, what is it? Red dates? Red dates. A hundred percent. I had red dates to buy and I was like, I was ready to go. I'd been cooking. I had stuff in the slow cookers. I was like, I was deep in like filling our freezer, getting everything ready so we could like have a really solid chill postpartum. We had hired a postpartum doula. We'd really prepped for like, I am going to bed when this baby is born and I am not getting up. And we were ready for it. And so I, my mom came, my mom was coming. We were going to go to the Asian grocery together and, and few other bits and bobs. And she got here and it stopped. And then it didn't come back for 10 days. I had nothing, not a sign of anything. And leading up to now, I'm probably going to get my dates all mixed up leading up to that, like 31st of January time. I, we'd like gone out and had the little like, we didn't have a baby shower or anything, but we just gone out and had like a little get lunch with some family and stuff. And I'd gotten really sick after that. And I don't think it was the food, but I'd read and heard about, you know, like your body kind of moving everything out, preparing for baby. And so I think I kind of had that experience. I'd been losing like little bits of my mucus plug for ages. And so I think potentially had I been relaxed that day and not had like a million things. I very possibly would have gone into labor and she would have been born that day. I was like, I got things to do, man. I got stuff to cook. I got banana bread to make. Yeah. You're going to have to wait, Madilda. Yeah. Yeah. Mama needs her banana bread. A hundred percent. And so those 10 days kind of went by without any kind of anything. Wow. I was, everything was just kind of back to normal. It was just that one little morning and then everything was fine. And then, yeah, on the 9th of February, Tom went out for like to see some friends in the evening and he was like, what if you go into labor while I'm out? And I was like, you're 12 minutes away. I'll just call you. I'm not going to have a baby in 12 minutes. Like it'll be fine. And so he went out and I stayed at home and I had a slow cooker filled with chicken broth and a slow cooker filled with, I don't know, something else. Probably. And I made myself a bowl of Vietnamese beef noodle soup and I like had broth that I baked from scratch and I was like pottering around the house. I'd been heavily in nesting mode. Tom hung a lot of pictures that week. Yeah. Like everything was going on. And so then, yeah, on that 9th of February, I like just kind of potted around on my own in the evening. I read some books. I just took it easy. And Tom came home and he was like, how are you feeling? I was having a great night, super chill, lovely, lots of energy. I went to bed quite a bit later than I normally do because I just felt really good. So he came home, he'd had a great night. And so we went to bed, went to sleep. And at that point in pregnancy, I'd been waking up a couple of times a night to go to the bathroom. And so I woke up at about 1 .30 in the morning, got up, went to the bathroom, got back into bed, went straight back to sleep. which is a superpower I seem to have lost. And so that was like 1 .30 in the morning. And then at 2 .15, I was in bed and I woke up to this just like unbelievably uncomfortable sensation of like bone on bone in my pelvis. And it was just like a thunk. And then I'd felt like what was my waters breaking, but I was laying down. Yeah. And so it wasn't like a, I don't know, it wasn't like a movie scene like, yeah, you know, it's just, but it was, it was more than a trickle. But evidently, I guess it was my waters breaking and her head kind of falling into my pelvis. And so it like woke me from my sleep and I stood up and I was like, Jesus, that was like a time. And I hadn't had any sensations like that in pregnancy. And so I was like, I, this is, I've had a lot of sensations in the last nine months. but this is new. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I went to the bathroom, and it was I was just really uncomfortable. But I just literally just woken up. So I was like, I kind of couldn't make sense of what was going on. Yeah, I just went to the bathroom and, and couldn't really sit like on the toilet ever. My pelvic floor was really tight, and I was super uncomfortable. And so I was sort of like, hovering and walking around the hallway and just really uncomfortable. And yeah, and after about five or 10 minutes, it kind of eased off. And I just like sat. the toilet for a minute. And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna get my bearings. And I made a note of it in my phone. And I was like, you know, like, I'm just a little bit, like, sticky. Yeah. So I'm just gonna and I'd seen like, when I put the bath, the toilet light on because I just kind of sat in the dark for a little while and just like, let everything Yeah, simmer down. And when I turned the light on, I could see that the the fluid had a bit of a pink tinge to it. So I was like, okay, this is something. And so I was like, I'm just going to have a shower because I prepped myself for like, an a million hour long. Yeah. Because I was like, if I, my mom had a four hour labor with me, a six hour labor with my brother. Yeah. And like, for context, like my brother was a month early and she couldn't find my dad and she still only had a six hour labor. And this was like, this was the nineties. You know, like people didn't have mobile phones. Just like, find you. Yes, we lived in the country at the time. So he wasn't just like two minutes around the corner. He was somewhere in determined location. And she had a three year old and was going into labor. And so and still with all of the stress, you know, and for those people who kind of understand physiological labor, like that, generally speaking would hinder it, but six hours. Yeah. So I was like, I'd said to my midwife like, sign me up for the four hour labor, because I'm not here for the 24 hour saga. I'm not here for the two sunrises and sunsets. I'm not here for that. Sign me up for the four hours. And she was like, okay, but you know, like you can't order a labor experience. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. I'm like, I'm prepped. But it can't hurt her to like send it out to the universe and make my request. Despite that first time moms usually have long way longer labors I'm not your regular first time mom remember correct. Yeah, exactly right And so I was like I I hear you I'm mentally preparing because I'm not gonna tie myself to a four -hour labor and then be in labor for 36 hours and be like get me out of here So I I know it's it's possible But sign me up for the short life. Yeah, and so when I my water broke and everything, I was like, I'm just going to have a shower, a quick shower. I'll just relax and then I'm going to go back to bed because this is probably not going to turn into like full blown labor in the near future. And it's like two o 'clock in the morning. I think by that time it was probably about two 30. and I need to rest because like more likely I'll be in labor for most of today. And then the baby will be born tomorrow night or tonight. Yeah. And so I was like, you know, and so we had like, we hired all the stuff. We had a birth pool and a swing, sling down sling thing. And we had all the stuff we, we, we had a tens machine. We had prepped for every eventuality. I was like, I want every possible option available to me. Let's do it. But we hadn't pumped up the pool because we've got two dogs and we didn't want them to poke holes in it. and so it was in our lounge room, ready to be pumped up as soon as I went into labor and then we'd start filling it. Yeah. knowing labor would take some time. It wouldn't need to be full straight away. It'd be totally fine. And so I was like, I'm going to get in the shower and I was like, I should probably just go and let Tom know what's going on so he can maybe think about getting the pool pumped up if he needs to or whatever. And so he's laying in bed and I came back down the hallway and I leaned over a bed and I was like, Hey, like wake up. And he was like, no, he's not, he's not a good wake up. He's very, very sleepy. And so he's like, yeah, what? And I was like, Hey, like don't. rush but like I think I'm in labor my water just broke and he was like what okay and I was like I'm just gonna go have a shower like don't rush but maybe get up and start pumping up the pool but I'm just gonna go get in the shower take your time like there is no rush it has literally been 15 minutes yeah we have got hours yeah hours and hours spoiler alert she was born by 4am and this is 3 .30 in the morning god So I just took myself off to the bathroom in the space of time from like going to tell him to get up to him getting up, which was literally like he got up, went to the bathroom himself. And came like we've got a separate toilet. So he went, did that came into the shower and I wasn't in the shower yet. And I'd had like three or four more contractions in like the five to seven minutes that it had taken to get up and come into the bathroom. And so, I was like, but they were okay. I was breathing through them. We'd learnt about, horse's breath. I was doing a bit of that. We'd learnt, in, bees, core and floor course about like elephant walking. And so I'd been doing a bit of that. Yeah, that was, it was fine. It was manageable. and I was really just prepared to like jump in the shower. you know, like wash, the waters off me and then just chill, you know, go and either go back to bed or sit down, you know, whatever. Everybody always laughs at this. I, she's on the other side of the door. No. Everybody always laughs at this part, but I washed my hair because I was like, it'll just be so relaxing. Like I'll just shampoo my hair. It'll be really lovely to just put my hair in the water. And so I did that. And before I could condition my hair, like I had to fight to wash the shampoo out. and then I was on the floor of our shower on all fours and I couldn't get back up. but also, do you have like kind of short hair? It's up at the moment. So it wasn't super short. It was probably like a bit past shoulder length, but it's very thick. It's very curly. no. And so I was like, I don't want shampoo in my eyes. So I rinsed it out through contractions where I really had to like lean against the wall. I was really starting to breathe through them. which I was doing anyway, but they were getting intense. And, but I was getting little breaks and then sort of towards the end of like literally just shampooing my hair. They were sort of like, I was not getting enough breaks. I was like, I need to wash this out. And then I just go to the floor. And in, when I thought I was going into labor 10 days before our midwife has said to us, do you know when to call me? And Tom had like jokingly been like, yeah, yeah. When she starts mooing, I'll call you. And we were just like, I was kind of. about it. I was like, I don't know, I'll just feel into it. When I feel like it's time to call you. Yeah, I'll call you. Like, I'm not going to call you like, when the baby's head's coming. Yeah, I'll call you in advance. But like, whatever. It's fine. We don't need to worry about too much. Yeah. And so I'm on the floor of the shower. Like I can't talk. I'm like in not incoherent, but I'm deep in labor. And I think I said to Tom, like, I think like, just text her text the midwife because you know, like just to let her know what's going on and see if she responds because like three, about three o 'clock in the morning at this point. Yeah. And I was like, just text her, see if she responds. She knew she was on call and then kind of another 15 minutes or so had passed. And he had been like, do you want me to call her? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I can't. I was just in that place where I couldn't make a decision. And we had like our salt lamp on in the bathroom. I had some I'd done a lot of breath work in the past with. particular group of women. And so I had their playlist, breathwork playlist playing. Yeah, not the playlist I planned, not the playlist I'd added all my songs to because I wasn't going to have my baby right then I was just gonna have a relaxing shower. Yeah, and wash my hair. Yeah. And so I had that play a playlist going. I had a whole altar set up in our lounge room where our birth pool was going to be with affirmations and books that I'd read and crystals that I'd bought. No, I didn't see a single thing of those. All I saw was our shower, which I had insisted Tom clean that week just in case I'd ended up in labor in the shower because I didn't want to be looking at our filthy shower. A little bit of mold. Welcome. Exactly. And so he had done a stellar job cleaning the shower and people are like, but did you think about that? 100 % I did. Yes, absolutely. The mold had been and I'm like, I'm so glad he cleaned the shower. And so I, yeah, it was like, I don't know whether you need to call her. And he's like, I'm just going to call her. I'm like, okay. So they're on the phone and he's like, do you want her to come? I'm like, I don't know whether I want her to come. I don't, I can't answer questions. And she's like, I'm just going to come. Yeah. And so lucky for everybody. She only lives about seven minutes away. Yeah. Cool. And so he called her, she's like, okay, I'm getting out of bed. I'll get dressed. I'll be there soon. Don't fret. Like you'll be fine. And I was fine. I had had many thoughts about my friends who had had, elective C sections in recent weeks and months and been like, that was a good idea. Why didn't I do that? This was a dumb idea. And I remember like I'd listened to, I'd listened to B from Cora and Flaw's birth story on, I think Australian birth stories. And she'd said like in labor, she'd like, been like, I, I'm just going to crawl out that little window naked, and I'm going to go and get a cab and I'm just going to go to the hospital. And I was thinking about that first story. This is yes, that like, that's what I'm going to do. But where I was at, it label was like, I just, my pelvic floor was so tense and there was so much pressure. I literally like couldn't even sit back on my feet. So I was like, well, I can't sit back on my feet. So I certainly can't stand up. get in the car, go to the hospital. So I guess our baby's being brought home. I guess we're committed to this now. What I realized after the fact was like, I was in transition, but I didn't think I was in transition because I'd only been in labor for about 45 minutes. So I was like, if this is going to, and in my mind, I was like, if this is going to go on for hours and hours and hours, I was like, I can't do this. But. I wasn't going to go on and do it for hours and hours and hours because she was born about 15 minutes later. That's amazing. But it was yeah, it was really it was so intense so fast and I had all these thoughts of like we'd done a shortened hypno birth course with our midwife and a local doula. And the doula in that course would send like, you know, contractions like really don't last super long, like, you know, 60 to 90 seconds and it's the ebb and flow and whatever and you get a break and whatever you can do anything for 60 seconds. And I cursed her and I have told her since then that I cursed her because I did not have 60 to 90 second contractions with an ebb and flow and a break in between. Because it was my kind of active labor was maybe my problem, my active labor was probably like 45 minutes. And then I would say probably my transition was probably about another 45 minutes. And so then, like when I was in transition, I just, it was just back to back to back and she was like, I'm coming and I'm coming now and everybody out of my way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so Tom had called the midwife and I kept, you know, just doing my thing. He was, he was hanging out with me and I looked at him squatting outside the shower and was like, that looks really uncomfortable. I hope your back's okay. Which I didn't say, but I remember thinking at the time. Wow. And because I just had all of this pelvic floor pressure, it kind of got to a point where I was sort of like cupping. my my vulva to like kind of counteract the pressure. Yeah. And then I was like, I looked at Tom and I was like, I can feel her like you need to call Panita I can feel her head. And he was like, what do you mean where and I was like, where do you reckon? Like where? And so I could literally sort of feel like in between at that point, the contraction started to kind of lengthen a little bit, like in terms of a break in between. And I think my mental state at that point, totally like zenned out because I was like, she's here. Like when you like, this is not actually going to go on for an hour. I don't need to worry about that because she's coming right now. And that's why this is. And so I think like my mental state just really. chilled out at that point and I was like I got this yeah I got this like she's right there yeah and so I could really feel her like sort of coming up moving up and down and so he called our midwife and was like hey she can feel her head yeah and she was like I'm literally pulling into your street right now yeah I'll be right there yeah and so and I kind of like I mean everything was kind of really because it was so quick like Tom had gone out to blow things up it felt like he was gone for 45 minutes he was gone for like Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and so everything just happened super quickly. But I was just in my zone, you know, I wasn't bothered. Nobody, nobody bothered me. Yeah. Tom was just being excellent. Yeah. And our midwife came and sat on the edge of the bath and was like, you're doing really great. Tom went and locked our dogs away because they were barking and carrying on. Yeah. Because at that point, they'd been watching me in labor like that whole time. Yeah, well. and had been remarkably chill. And so I was like, but I said, I remember saying to our midwife, like, where's Tom gone? He's gonna miss it because I could feel her head coming down. And our midwife said to me, I don't know, where's he gone? And I was like, I don't know. Why do people keep asking me questions that I don't know the answer to? Like, I don't know. And so, yeah, so he locked our dog's way and came back. And the midwife had said to me, like, because we planned to have the pool and stuff. And she was like, because you're not in the water, like submerged in the water, when her head comes out, we need to turn the water off. Because like, otherwise she might aspirate water. And I dead set said to her, this is bullshit. Because the water had been like the only thing and I turned it off at one point because I'd been getting really hot. And Tom was in the bathroom. And it was just like the biggest mistake. Like it's see it in my memory. I'm like, don't turn the water off. Because the pressure and everything just intensified so much without the water for me. and so when she was like, you got to turn the water off. I was like, screw you lady. I don't know. And so she was like, I just, because I don't know if everyone's the same here. they are meant to have two midwives for a home birth. And so she had obviously got here and I was like about, she was about to be born. And so she's like, I'm just going to step out and call the second midwife. And so she texts one of the other midwives. And while she was out texting the midwife, I was like, the head's out. She's in our hallway, Tom's in there with me and he's holding our like detachable shower head. And so he's just had to turn like the water. onto the wall because the way our showers configured and where I was standing, like it wasn't easy to just grab, like we didn't have a push. So it wasn't just, you couldn't just like sort of push the tap and you had to reach in and turn both. and so he, yeah. Sort of turned the water away. And I, having done a lot of reading and stuff and listening about both, I was like, okay, so the head will probably come out. I'll have a little minute, have a breather. then I'll have another contraction and she'll probably turn and come out. And so when her head came out, I was like, okay, we're good. We got a second. We didn't have a second. She flipped and then came straight, straight onto the shower floor because I was facing the out of our shower, the door of our shower. And so they couldn't like Tom or our midwife wasn't behind me. And I was on all fours thinking I've got a minute. And so I'd sort of felt her head come out. with my hand taken my hand away thinking I had some time. Yeah. And she, she was not as much as her personality now was like, yeah, you guys I'm here. Yeah. Yeah. And so I just felt her whole body twist. She came out on the shower floor. And so, I mean, I was ready relatively close to the floor. I wasn't standing or anything. So she didn't have far to fall. Yeah. In terms of like, in terms of like sensations of like that. such a quick. descent. Yeah. Like, how would you describe like that? Was that like particularly like, do you describe it as painful? Like, how do you how did you experience it? Because? Yeah, yeah, like, it's so quick. It was so quick. And I think like the actual before I got in the shower, and whilst I was washing my hair, I didn't think those contractions were painful. They were very tight. Yeah. But it wasn't, I didn't, I wouldn't, to be honest, I don't remember that part that much because it was so short. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, it wasn't pain. I never at that point was like, this is really painful. It was just like, okay, things are happening. But I think it was also the excitement. Yeah. when she really actively started moving down and I was on the shower floor, like the pressure in my pelvic floor was really intense. And I remember in labor being like, wow. yeah. But I think that it was. a combination of the pressure and then obviously she was coming down really quickly. And I honestly was like it felt like my pelvic floor was going to rip in half. And I think that was maybe a little bit of, I don't know, whether it was a little bit of fear, like a little bit of tension that I was holding or whether it was just my body being like, I don't, if we don't tense up, then you literally are. I don't know. But Yeah, it was obviously so quick that yeah, it just, it felt a lot. It was just a lot of pressure and that wasn't what I was expecting. I was expecting belly contractions, maybe back contractions. I wasn't expecting this pressure in my pelvic floor. It really surprised me actually. I, yeah, I just, I hadn't heard anybody describe it really like that. And because that was sort of the bulk of my... labor, I was like, this is not, yeah, this is not what I expected. And I guess perhaps for people who have had a longer labor, that's a really short part. But for me, it was really the majority. And so, yeah, it definitely at the time, I was like, how this hurts. And it was, you know, and, and Tom sort of said afterwards, like, I could see you were in pain. But it really felt more like And I guess it's that difference between physiological pain and pathological pain. You know, it wasn't like, I've broken my arm kind of pain. But it's certain. I, yeah, I certainly wasn't like this tickles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I guess as at least in my personal experience, I experienced at least Frankie's birth last year as painful. So Frankie was born in June last year and. with Murphy, who was born in 2020, whether it's mother nature and time, but I still don't think like I described that as painful with Frankie. I definitely describe it as painful and it felt, I felt so much of my labor like in my hips and it felt like my hips were like breaking. I don't know. Like, and just, it was so, that was painful. But. I guess, you know, like we joke about the C -section and like in my head when I was like pushing Frankie out last year, I remember thinking like, fuck, if I ever do this again, I'm getting an epidural. Because like this sucks. Yeah. And I think that's totally where I was at. Like in that, you know, yeah, in that transition phase was like, why? Yeah. This would I, I like logically before labor, I was like, I know all of the reasons that I would personally not opt to have a cesarean. Yeah. In that moment, I was like, cut every layer I've got. I just don't care. Yeah, yeah. But I guess, you know, prior to that sort of more transition moment, having a home birth means you do have to prepare to accept that you're going to be feeling everything with like the way you like, there's not going to be the same things available to you. And I see women try and get gas, like the nitrous oxide or whatever it is, for home births. And I just think you just have to accept that you're going to experience what you're going to experience. And I think it's that acceptance that means that you actually might not feel it as pain because you're like, this is meant to happen. And this experience means... that my baby is coming and my body is doing exactly what it's meant to do. Yes. And I think for me, like a lot of the, the period of my labor that I found really, kind of painful or like it was just, I was really questioning what I was doing. Yeah. Why I think was because I really had that mentality of like, I needed to prepare for a long labor and. I thought that was going to be what I was going to feel like for hours and hours and hours. And as soon as I felt her head with my hand, I was like, we're good. And at that point, I don't remember feeling any more pain. So I think for me, it was also a real mental gain because I was getting myself anxious and worried about how long is this going to last? How long am I going to be able to do this for? I'm already feeling overwhelmed by the feeling, the sensations that I'm having. And I don't know how long I can sit with that. And also just like, I think I'd psyched myself out because I was on all fours and I couldn't sit back on my feet. Even, I was like, I'm, I'm screwed. Like, I literally can't get up. So am I going to be on our shower floor for the next 12 hours? Did you have anything under your knees in the shower? No, because I just, I, yeah, I, you were just going in to wash your hair. Correct. Yeah. I was just chilling. I was just, I was going to go back to bed. So I, yeah, no, I didn't have anything under my knees, nothing. And at one point, sort of close to the end, I said, I, cause I couldn't really talk, which is, I think most people who have been through labor can probably attest to that at transition. Like, but I said to Tom, I need a towel. Yeah. And I just kind of vomited the words out like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I had that under my hands because I was sure at that point, our shower wasn't very big. like for context, like Tom, he's six foot two. Yeah. He had to stand like sideways in our shower to wash because he couldn't fit widthways. Like it was not a shower made to birth a baby. And so, I kind of been in the shower and whatever. And. I had to push the door open to make more room so that I could move my body a bit because I kind of been on all fours sort of rocking and humming to myself and just doing the very innate things that came to me. But I didn't have enough room to do them inside the confines of our shower. And so then I was on our hard tiles and there was no water running over my hands. And so my wrists and my hands were getting really sore. And so I had a towel under them at the end, but. Yeah, that was not the majority. And also, like, again, Tom also didn't think our baby was about people. So he was setting up a pool. Yeah, you know, like he was prepping, he was like putting towels on our bed and like he, he was not, I don't think either of us were like, we got to get all the things because I better be comfy because we're about to have a baby right now. Yeah. And so yeah, I had nothing. I have since been enlightened that some of the mums who went had their babies after me with our same midwife, learned from our experience and had yoga mats in the bottom of their shells. Although I did prep myself with a yoga mat for, Frankie's birth. And I think hot tip to anybody listening, you should try it in the shower before you're in labor, because mine was super slippery and it was actually super annoying because I was trying to like, you know, been a position and yeah, it was just not it's just not working. So that is a good tip. Czech Czech yoga math. Yeah, and some of those old school like ducks that go on the bottom of the bathroom. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, those griffy things. So true. Yeah. Yeah. Whoa. And so the first the primary midwives there Tom's there. Yeah, Matilda. Is there and the waters turned off and turned off like what's happening? Like what are you feeling? Like are you like a holy crap? Yeah. I think I was in a lot of shock. So when she came out, she did a donut. Yep. I went like around my, so came out, went around one of my legs, like around the corner of the shower and like appeared in front of me. So she came and she cried right away. And she like, again, like testament to her personality as it is today, she is 100 % or she's nothing. Yeah, really. And so she, yeah, she cried right away and I picked her up. I guess I was lucky we had a pretty long cord. So even though she kind of come all the way around me, like I could still pick her up, but not long enough to sort of bring her up to my chest. So. we had to do a bit of maneuvering to kind of get the cord untangled from my legs. And then I just sort of sat back in the shower in a sort of a squat position and held her and she's crying. And I just remember looking at her being like, yeah, that's how I feel too, baby. Like it was, I think I, yeah, I think I was in shock and I was also so glad because I didn't want a long labor and I didn't have one. And so like some of my friends joked to me afterwards like, I could have watched a whole movie. Yeah. And like your baby would have been born within the time that I'd sat down to start a movie and finished it. So true. so because yeah, it was an hour and not even an hour and 45 minutes. She was born at three 58 in the morning and I had woken up, at two 15 am. So yeah, it was wild. and so, yeah, I think the thing maybe in hindsight that I've been reflecting on recently is like, I think that. immediate period after I felt a bit rushed. Yeah. And I think that was because we were in the shower, the water had been turned off, you know, we weren't in a pool where we were in nice warm water and we could just chill and so Tom and our midwife were helping me trying to help me to stand up and to go to bed so that we could put a blanket on and we could be warm and all of that stuff. It wasn't to rush to do checks on Matilda or anything like that. Our midwife like didn't touch her. until one o 'clock in the afternoon. Yeah, well, that day. Well, you know, we had hours and hours and hours of like, you know, beautiful time. Yeah. But I think it was just that primarily that concern of like, we've just been in a warm shower, and now the water's off and it's cold. Yeah. And did you buy the placenta in the shower? No. So the placenta took about another hour and a half. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so I had some tinctures from the midwife to try and kind of help. that along because it was taking a while. But I think this is what I've kind of been reflecting on lately is I think maybe it took so long because I felt a bit rushed. Like it was obviously a very quick birth. Probably a little bit of shock. Yeah. And I wasn't ready to get up out of the shower. Like my legs were really shaky. And I wasn't in a good position. So like, the way I'd sort of sat back after we'd unhooked her, it was quite difficult for me to lift my leg and get her unhooked because I'd been on my knees for an hour and a half. Well, probably not quite that long, but you know, that whole time. And I mean, inherently, like, I just birthed a baby. Yeah, like my body was like jelly. Yeah. And so it was really tricky for me to get that that lift that leg and hold a baby and yeah, yeah, things. And so I'd landed kind of back in the shower and not like a great position to then just stand up. Yeah. And so Tom was trying to help me to stand up. but I couldn't kind of get my footing to just pop myself up and end up with a baby in my arms. And so I'd had to say to him, like, I need you to let me go because I need to, I need to readjust myself so I can stand up. And I think that whole situation whilst it came from love and care from both Tom and our midwife, I think it just wasn't the slow post -birth experience I needed. You're also having to like, problem solved, like how am I going to get out of the shower connected to this very small baby? I am very exhausted because I've just experienced this phenomenal thing. But I also have to be careful now that I have this tiny little baby. And I'm in this small shower and I'm cold. And so your brain's like going through all of this stuff and that's just not conducive with. No. And I think that's where like, I didn't. I don't think I had the time yet to be there. Yeah. Place to problem solve. Yeah. And so I was just like, I'm just sitting. Yeah, I'm just chilling. Yeah. And to be fair, I could have been there for a few minutes. I don't really know how long I've been sitting there, but it wasn't, I don't think it was long. Yeah. But yeah, so it was just, I think that probably contributed to having that kind of longer, fourth, fourth stage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Yeah, we, I did get up, Tom helped me up out of the shower. And for those who think mid home birth is really messy. We had like one tea towel. Yeah. Yeah, that was it. Yeah. And it was the tea towel that our midwife had grabbed out of our cupboard and like put between my thighs while I walked from the shower to our bed where we'd laid down a waterproof blanket. And I can, I can send you the link for those. Yeah, please. excellent. Yeah, highly recommend we use them all throughout postpartum and even like now we're doing some potty training learning. It's on the couch all the time. Yeah, so that our couch doesn't end up covering. So I will send you the link so I can go in the show. So yeah, so Tom had put one of those on our bed and we've done a nice nice home birth bed making there was a waterproof sheet and a fitted sheet and a waterproof sheet fitted sheet and then yeah, everything else. and so we went and got into our bed, which was like one of my like dreams when we were planning our home birth was just like, I get to take my little baby and I get to go and get in my bed and I don't have to like be in a crinkly hospital bed. and so we did, and it was like my midwife brought my phone. So the music was still playing and the lights were dim and we got into bed and we had like a snuggle. and like, I don't know. saying it like that sounds so much more glamorous than it is. Like her midwife took some photos and the photos are not glamorous. I'm just like, I look like, I look like I felt it was just, just like so exhausted and just so like what has just happened here. but yeah, we just got into bed and she was still, obviously like we didn't cut the cord or anything like that. So she, and I really wanted to try and do a breast crawl because I'd heard that it could help. with placenta detaching. And so we did that. So she did a breast crawl and we've got a video of that. It's so cool and beautiful. And she made her way up, which took a little bit of time. And I mean, I don't know if anybody's done a breast crawl with a baby covered in, what's it called? Sticky stuff. Yeah. Thank you. They're slippery, they don't stay on your like now deflating stomach very well. So that was like, you know, a learning experience for all of us. But she made her way up and she had her first feed. And I still hadn't birthed the placenta at that point. And so we kind of had some tinctures from the midwife through that time. And then she said, the midwife said to me, you know, do you want to try coming up to a squat? Because I was having cramping. Just it sort of felt like to me like period. pretty heavy period cramp. Yeah, sure. And so said, you know, we want and we were getting our placenta encapsulated. So we had a container and everything ready to catch it. And so you know, she'd said to us to me, do you want to try and get up? Yeah, like squat up on the bed over the container. And so I tried that but my pelvic floor was still really, really tight. And which had kind of, you know, been going on through the whole birth. Yeah. And so getting up into that squat position on the bed was so like painful, really uncomfortable. I just could not maintain it. And so I sat back down and I was like, I can't, it's just too uncomfortable. And so then we just left it for a little bit longer, had some more tincture and it still hadn't come. And so Matilda had had a feed and the cord had gone white. Had it, did we cut it? No, it must, it must, yeah, it had gone white, but I think we cut it after I birthed it. Okay, yeah. So, yeah, that's all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was cut. Yeah, after a long period of time, probably at least an hour, I would say. And so then my midwife said, Do you want to try like, going to see on the toilet to birth the placenta? And so we did that. And then we did some problem solving about like, we need the center to be clean. We need the container to be clear. So true. Yeah. What if I pee? Yeah, you know, it's just a whole like problem solving situation. So anyway, I sat on the toilet and just did some like really gentle breathing. Yep. kept the light off. Everybody watched me sit on the toilet. I mean, everybody, my husband, my baby and my wife. Yeah. Not like, you know. And yeah, and then it came out really easily at that point. And it came into the container. And so that was great. our midwife took it away and checked it over to make sure it was whole and all of that. And we got to have a bit of a look at it and she showed us afterwards and showed us kind of what she was looking for and all of that. And then maybe it was after that, maybe then we cut the cord and Tom had his first real cuddle with Matilda and I went and had a shower. And yeah, and then after we kind of done all of that, midwife stayed until about 730 in the morning. Yeah. So she was here for about three and a half hours after the birth. Yeah. Again, didn't do any checks. She didn't weigh her. She didn't measure her. She didn't touch her like literally or even cutting the cord. She guided Tom Yeah, on what to do. Yeah, she didn't do anything in terms of cutting it or holding it or whatever. And yeah, and then she just I actually don't even think she tied the cord tie. I think Tom tied the cord tie. Yeah. So she didn't touch Matilda. She left us, yeah, about 7 .30, eight o'clock in the morning. And we, like I'd had a shower, gotten dressed. We'd all gotten into bed. Actually, maybe I didn't get dressed. We had skin to skin. Matilda and I had skin to skin for hours, like probably till lunchtime. And Tom went back to sleep because he just needed a little snooze, which was fine because we were all just hanging out. We'd made a few phone calls to tell like our parents and stuff that she was here. And like the only kind of family member we had that was really close, like in Adelaide at the time who would have come to visit is my mom and she had to work that day. I mean, I'm so sure if I'd said to her, can you come right now? She would have been like, yes, I'll be right there. But we just wanted that quiet time. So nobody was running over to come and see us. Nobody was, you know, whatever. So. We called the person who was encapsulating our placenta that was ready to come and be picked up. Our midwife left us for the morning and said, I'll come back at lunchtime to check on you guys. And we all just laid in bed. I had some food that was brought to me by the midwife before she left. And yeah, I didn't really get to like nap or anything, but it wasn't from lack of trying. It was just like, I've got this beautiful baby. This whole experience was just so wild and I was still too like amped up from all of that to kind of go to sleep. Yeah. And so Tom had a little snooze and Matilda and I just cuddled and we fed as she needed to. And I was determined we were going to nail side lying feeding in bed. On day one, we were prepped to co -sleep and all of the things. And so I was like, she was born in the morning. That's great. I have all day to nail side lying feeding before I'm trying to sleep. And so that's what we did. We literally didn't get up all day. We just laid in bed and we fed and we learned how to lay down feeding. And yeah, it was really relaxing and beautiful. And yeah, it was just, it was, yeah, the birth was intense. And then everything after that was just really chill. Was your initial sort of postpartum period also quite uneventful? Yeah. yeah, I don't know. I probably wouldn't say uneventful only because I got mastitis when she was 10 days old. So that was tough. And there was just a few other things like, I had a few food reactions and things like that that were, so it was, it was a little bit tricky the first few weeks, but we were very blessed, I think in that we'd planned really intentionally for that postpartum. So we had a freezer for the food. We had a postpartum doula who was coming once a week. our midwife was coming every couple of days for the first week or so and then once a week after that. My mum was around one or two days a week to help and was cooking food and helping us tidy the house and doing our washing and you know, I would often lay in bed with Matilda and my mum would be there chatting to me and putting away our washing. You know, that kind of stuff. We had so much support. Tom had two months off of work. So, we were really set up for great success, which was probably quite lucky because yeah, Matilda had a lot of food intolerances, getting to her via my milk when she was small. Well, she still has them now, but we just didn't know. We were still figuring them out when she was really little. So she was not a super settled baby. And so we were really blessed to have all that support because it really allowed us to be with her. in the way she needed us to have the brain power to try and figure out what that was. And yeah, so I wouldn't say uneventful, but I didn't, I felt we felt really supported. Even though there was a lot going on. Yeah. You're, I think what might be in other people's minds when they listen to this is that, like, how was your, your like physical healing from such a quick birth? It was excellent. Yes. I didn't have any tears. I had a little graze which took probably about, it probably took the better part of like 12 weeks to heal fully. But it wasn't super problematic. It was tricky for maybe the first, I don't know, month or so I had like, you know, pain when I went to the bathroom and that kind of stuff. But nothing that stopped me from. Yeah. doing any activities. In terms of like, energy and stuff like I had, I felt really well rested. We spent a lot of time in bed, we had a nap every day. At least one nap a day for the first like, two to three months. And so I felt really relaxed. Yeah, I as relaxed as I could, my physical healing went really well, I think, because we just had that space to be and we'd kind of like lined up things like I saw a post pelvic floor physio at six weeks postpartum. we had our, the doula postnatal doula that we, a postpartum doula that we had, was also a massage therapist. And so she did a couple of massages and stuff for me while she was coming to visit. We also had another doula, who lives close by who we hadn't, employed her as a doula, but. She's part of our home birth community. And so she is the doula we had was like a relaxation massage therapist. This other doula is a remedial massage therapist and she is honestly the best, the best. I still see her now and she's honestly like Tom's going to go see her next week. She's amazing. And so like I saw her kind of after that first kind of six or so weeks to have a couple of massages from her. which really helped with those like aches and pains. We were co -sleeping, I was having a lot of hip pain from laying on one side all night. And also just being in bed for such long periods. Like I would go to bed when Matilda went to bed at night and then I would be up, you know, be in bed, you know, sometimes 12 or more hours. And then we were also in bed during the day. So I had a lot of aches and pains. And I was used to doing like yoga a few times a week and stuff and I hadn't. wasn't doing that while I was kind of giving that space for my body to heal. And so whilst that was important for my healing, it was hard in some regards, because I just had all of these kind of pain. Yeah. usually I would deal with by doing yoga. I didn't want to, but I didn't want to, disadvantage myself by jumping back into doing things too quickly. so yeah, but physically other than kind of those, yeah, aches and pains. like my pelvic floor health was really good. And I didn't have kind of a lot of ongoing issues that are, you know, still like I don't really have anything that's lingering now. And I think that really is probably that preparation and knowing to take it slow. You know, I didn't get up and walk around. We weren't going for walks around the block when she was a week old or you know, any of that kind of stuff. I really tried to honor that space of just taking it really slow. And not rushing to jump out of bed because I knew that time would come. Yeah, you got your whole life to do all of the things. Yeah, and I think probably like in hindsight, if we were to have another baby, I would do my best to maybe sit up a bit more out of bed because my hips did get super sore and what I learnt after the fact, like they were sore, aching for months. Yeah. And then I stopped going to bed when Matilda went to bed because she started sleeping when I got up. And then my hips stopped hurting. And I was like, this is like, this is because I'm laying down for such periods of time. And so I think probably like my learning from that is I didn't necessarily have to go back to doing yoga. But maybe just not laying down. Yeah, more position changes. Yeah, it might have helped a little bit. Like it didn't have to be all or nothing. Yeah, yeah. You know, there was little things I could tweak that might have helped. Yeah. But yeah, my physical recovery felt really good. Other than the mastitis, which was relatively my case, I guess. Yeah, we had some ups and downs with breastfeeding, but I knew she would probably have quite a few food intolerances because I do, Tom does. And so we were highly committed to breastfeeding formula. wasn't an option because I am heavily dairy intolerant as is Tom. And so I was like, I am not paying like a million dollars for some specialty medical formula. So breastfeeding has to work because I don't want to go back to work to pay for formula. Yeah. Yeah. So, that was a bit of a tough start. Like I would say probably it took us really like 10 or so weeks to settle into our. breastfeeding journey into a place where I didn't have pain at all and that kind of stuff. But the beginning was tough. I was doing a lot of 6am Googling where I've been up for many hours, you know, and it was sore and there was a lot of tears shed all around. But she's 15 months old in two days and she is still breastfed. You know, like we got through it. If anybody's listening to this and they are in the thick of that, like I thought breastfeeding was natural and it just came easy. Yeah. just because it doesn't happen exactly as you think it's gonna happen doesn't mean it's not gonna work. And yeah, if you want it to work, you can make it work. It's a skill, you have to learn. And that's kind of where we ended up, like we just had to figure it out and we got some help from a Cairo to kind of sort out some alignment issues for Matilda and stuff with her latch and those sorts of things. But. Yeah. And we were very, I mean, we had the midwife as well visiting who, you know, was reasonably well versed in supporting us in that journey and, you know, would come out with all great tips. Yeah, of course. So yeah, I think have that, I guess, if you want to breastfeed, have, make sure you've got support, you know, around you, because I don't know how people go through that journey with Dr. Google as their only support. Yeah. my gosh, she really like, and the formula industry is, So hectic. I'll link a... I don't know if you've heard it, but the Midwives Cauldron has an amazing episode on the formula industry. And it's very depressing, so prepare yourself if you listen to it. But that is also a very, very strong business. Yeah, for sure. And it's tough, right? My grandma was... had her children, so my dad and my aunt, in the generation where you were given medication to dry up your milk as soon as you had your baby. And then my mom, with me, I was a really unsettled baby. I had a lot of reflux and stuff. And my mom was told her breast milk was too rich for me. And that's why I, right? Isn't that ridiculous? Isn't that the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard? So. She was told her breast milk was too rich. So she stopped breastfeeding me at six weeks because she was told formula would fix it, would make my reflux better, which like I was dairy intolerant. So I'm 30 years old and I am still dairy intolerant. It did not fix the problem. But you know, like it's just, yeah, it's a really, I don't know, there's a lot of misinformation out there and. I find it a tricky thing because everybody's got an opinion and everybody deserves to parent and mother how you feel is right for you and your family. And we should all have that choice. We should all have a choice to do whatever we want. But much like birth, we should all have all of the information to make an informed decision. And I think everything around parenting, birth. feeding children, you know, it's it's none of it is fully informed unless you really dig deep into the information. You know, and that's really unfortunate for our society. Yeah. But you're against all odds, you had your first baby at home, you knew you wouldn't make it to 40 weeks. You requested to the universe less than four hour labor, and you got it. And, you know, through all of that adversity, like you didn't have to heal from a traumatic birth. And like, I just, what more convincing could you need on why your birth experience matters? Like, who wants to go through that? Absolutely. And I mean, every day I'm grateful for the experience we had because we have been at home. with Matilda from literally the day she was born and her, you know, like we've just built a really beautiful safe family space. And a really beautiful springboard for us to come back out of our postpartum experience into the world. And I say this often, but the biggest gift we got, and I know not everybody's gonna have this, but the biggest gift we got with our home birth was we were gifted this beautiful community of other home birthing families. And we have made some of our best friends, in that community. And we, you know, Homeboth gifted us that in a way that we would not have had access to that or we would not have got that if we had been in a hospital. Yes, we would have got access to mothers groups and whatever. Yeah. But we've got this beautiful, like minded community that isn't just for the first three months. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's forever. And we and we're making beautiful friends who align with our family values and. we get to see our midwife and we get to see, you know, duelers in our community. And yeah, it's a beautiful space and it's so lovely. And I'm so grateful for that every day because I can see how lonely motherhood could have been if we didn't have that community. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's so beautiful. And like I hadn't even thought about that. Yeah, I'm going to go reflect about that because that's I, yeah, I truly had not even thought about. Like obviously community is important, but yeah, if I didn't have home birth, I think I'd be pretty alone. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But thank you so, so much for sharing your amazing story. I started to think a couple of minutes ago, I was like, my gosh. Because how long did you say your labor was? An hour and just under an hour and 45 minutes. So in the time that it's taken to record this podcast, you've already gone into labor and had a baby. Yeah, in the time it's taken to record this, I was literally asleep and then back in bed. Yeah, and just, holy moly. Thank you so, so much, Chloe. Thank you for having me.