Confident freebirth after restrictive hospital birth || Michaela's birth of 'Leonardo' at home (Queensland)

In the 4th episode Michaela, mum to 2 (Willow and Leonardo/Leo) and business owner from the Gold Coast shares her freebirth story (with a doula). 
Michaela shares how meconimum stained waters impacted her hospital birth with Willow and then how she chose to  freebirth baby Leo ( initially influenced by the inability to access private midwives). She also touches on the negative impacts on birthing women of the misunderstood (and usually fear based) perceptions around birthing at home, especially without a midwife. Michaela's story is one of confidence and immense self belief in her mental and physical power. 


Links to people/business/resources for this episode: 

• Spinning Babies https://www.spinningbabies.com/ 
• Baby/Belly Mapping info https://www.spinningbabies.com/pregnancy-birth/baby-position/belly-mapping/
• Hypnobirthing https://l.linklyhq.com/l/1uDp2
• Labour pain relief tip > 'banksia seed pods' 

Info on meconimum stained waters/liquor 

• https://midwifethinking.com/2015/01/14/the-curse-of-meconium-stained-liquor/

Placenta 

• 'Placenta's and cord blood' from The Midwives Cauldron Podcast https://open.spotify.com/episode/5rUyaVnWu7p1MLDZRHp9sd?si=8f2f3dc577224563

The seperation phase and why in a physiologocal birth you can nap during labour (aside from just being exhausted!)

• https://midwifethinking.com/2017/02/03/understanding-and-assessing-labour-progress/ 

Chapters

• 2:55 Michaela's Journey to Free Birth
• 5:59 Reflections on Willow's Birth
• 9:00 Preparing for Leo's Birth
• 11:59 The Role of the Doula
• 42:00 The birth of Leo

Transcript

0:00

Hi everyone, welcome to the Birthing at Home podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I've had two home births in April 2020 and recently in June 2023. I'm a mental health nurse and an ex-student midwife that still has a strong passion for birth and supporting women. This is the fourth episode for the Birthing at Home podcast. I'm so excited that it now has over 100 downloads because I was quite worried that no one would listen. So thank you. I hope you're enjoying the great birth at home stories that are being shared with us all. If you want to share your birth at home story, whether that's home birth or free birth, please send me a message on the podcast Instagram, which is birthingathome underscore a podcast. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of land I'm recording on in Nam, Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have been birthing at home on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion. and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. On today's episode, I chat with Michaela on the Gold Coast in Queensland. Michaela will be sharing her journey to free birthing her son Leo with the support of Adula and her partner. Welcome Michaela, welcome to the Birthing at Home podcast. Thank you for joining me on this Sunday morning. Thank you for having me. Do you wanna start off by telling us a little bit about who you are, who's in your family kind of thing? Yeah, so my name is Michaela. I am 26 years old. I have a business, my own home business, which I started when my daughter was nine months old, which was during COVID time and everything, how we were locked indoors, we couldn't go to work or anything like that. We need a little bit of extra income. So I started my own handmade business making cloth nappies and clothing. Awesome. and, so I've got, so my daughter now is four and a half years old. that's Willow. I've also got my son, Leonardo, who is almost 11 months old. and then my husband who's, 29 this year. Yeah. Cool. What's his name? Patrick. Patrick. Nice. Cool, and you live on the Gold Coast. I do, yeah. Yeah, nice. Cool. So I believe you had Leo at home, right? Yes, I did. I had planned to have him at home from the start. I really wanted a home birth with my first, but my husband was very, very nervous and because there was so many unknowns and He wasn't sure what was going to happen. He just felt more comfortable in the hospital setting. Yeah. So, so we had my daughter at the hospital. Yeah. It wasn't a bad experience, but it wasn't the best either. And like when a couple of years down the track, when you think back on it, in the moment, it felt OK. Like it was it was good. Nothing went wrong. It was like textbook kind of thing. It went really long. It was. 43 hours from the start of labor until she came out. But then, know, things happened where I look back on it I'm like, you know, I wasn't really okay with that. So for instance, I really wanted a water birth and due to the hospital requirements, because there was meconium in the waters, I wasn't allowed to get in the pool. And then I couldn't even use the shower because the monitors they had on me couldn't get wet. Then they offered to put a screw into her head and I just wasn't comfortable with that. That sounded horrible. basically I just labored standing up the whole time with like no type of pain management whatsoever. Yeah. my gosh. Yeah. So, but yeah, other than that. So with Willow, did you go into labour spontaneously or were you introduced? No, I went into labour spontaneously. I was very adamant that I didn't want or I wanted to avoid any induction as much as possible. at the time we were living with my mother-in-law and that was very hard because she grew up medically. in the medical system. so she was like every day after 38 weeks, she was like, have you booked an induction? Have you booked an induction? yeah, it was terrible. And yeah, and unfortunately I had this idea or the idea was put on my head that labor would happen between 38 and 40 weeks. Back then I didn't know that, you know, a lot of births, especially first births happen almost at 42 weeks. Yeah. So yeah, I was very happy that I went into labour spontaneously with her. many weeks were you? I was 41 plus 5 with her. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the same as I was with my first son as well. Yeah, and apparently it's like the most common time to go into labour with your first is 41 plus five. Yeah. I only found that out like years afterwards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. So you went into labour at home and then you drove into the hospital or whatever and then had her in hospital? Yeah, well, we went to the hospital a few times. We were only like at that time. We were only seven minutes from the hospital. So I think it was around 36 hours. I was like, all right, I feel like things have ramped up enough. Let's go to the hospital. So we went and they did the whole check how far along I am to see the dilation. And they were like, yeah, you haven't dilated it at all, but it's really thin. that's broke me because I felt like I was doing so well. was managing the contractions really well. felt like I put a lot of work into it, especially 36 hours down the road. And they were regular the whole time. It's not like they were sporadic all over the place and they were intense too. So yeah, at that point, just kind of felt like I failed in some way because you know, they've checked and nothing has happened. So after that, they sent me home because they had the rule, you don't stay until you're about six centimeters. So they sent me home and I labored for longer and longer. then I think it was around Maybe like only an hour after I said we have to go back because it felt like it ramped up again. we went back and I had dilated to three centimetres and they offered to break my waters. And because I hadn't had any sleep, because the contractions were intense enough that I couldn't fall asleep. I had been awake for so long. I just kind of wanted to get it over and done with. So I accepted the manual break of my waters. to which then they discovered the meconium, which means I couldn't get into the pool. And then it just kind of went from there. But after the waters were broken, things are really, really ramped up. And as a first time mum, you don't really know what level it's going to get to. So each stage, you're like, yeah, this is definitely the top, this is definitely the top. And then it gets worse and you're like, my gosh. So yeah, it ramped up a bit more and I was then so sleep deprived that I was, my body just had micro naps in between contractions. didn't notice anyone else apparently that was like maybe 10 people coming in and out of the room the whole time, but I didn't notice any of that. Yeah, wow. And then I was able to get out after a contraction. said, I think I feel the head and the midwife at the time, he was like, I don't think you're quite there yet. But he he was like, I'll check next contraction. So he got a mirror and had a look. And then, next contraction. was like, yeah, that's a head. And then and then they were like, all right, let's get you on the bed. And I was like, I was thinking the bed, like I couldn't. express what I wanted and because I didn't want to birth on my back, I didn't want to do that, but they were basically forcing me onto the bed to birth her. So yeah, I got onto the bed and she came out like, I don't know, five minutes later and I had a second degree tear with her and I requested that we did delayed cord clamping. So I said for at least an hour and then have the interrupted golden hour with her and everything like that skin to skin and they were very respectful of that so while I was having the skin to skin they stitched they stitched me up and and then an hour came on the dot and the placenta still hadn't come out yeah and they made me think that that was a bad thing like it should have come out at 15 minutes and everything so they were pushing pushing pushing the oxytocin shot to get it out and so yeah they They were like, all right, we've got to get this out. We don't want you to bleed out or anything like that. And I'm like, in that moment, because I didn't actually, I did a lot of research before her, but apparently not enough because it didn't occur to me that the placenta might not come out by itself. yeah, I accepted the shot, which I still regret to this day. I wish I'd tried other things, because I didn't even You know, try breastfeeding to stimulate it. didn't even try and walk around to stimulate it. I was still stuck on the bed. So, so yeah, they gave me the shot and it came out and that was all fine. And then yeah, it was, it was smooth sailing from then. We had a really great breastfeeding journey. I, I breastfed her all the way until she was three and a half years old. That's amazing. So yeah, that was through my whole second pregnancy. Wow. And then I tanned and fed both my children for about a week before she self weaned. Yep. Yep. Wow. That's incredible. Three and a half years. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. She, she loved it. It was great. And it's so good when they get sick and you can just pop the boob in or if, you know, they get hurt, pop the boob and it's, it's really easy and really nice and a great way to get her to sleep. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, how did you, guess, I guess, reflecting on that experience with Willow and then the model of care or the way that you chose to bring Leo into the world. Like how did did reflecting on Willow's birth impact that? Well, I definitely did more research into the placentas. Yeah. And I joined a few home birth groups and I read a lot of birth stories. And because, know, when you Google things, a lot of the top results are always the fear mongering ones. So yeah, went... articles. Yeah, the news articles and everything like that. you can't really get a good idea of, you know, what the body is capable of. So reading all these birth stories of women who just trusted their body and went with the process and the timeframe that I was seeing was... between one and four hours before the post center came out. And I'm thinking to myself, I didn't even get a chance to do that. Like all these years after I felt that my body kind of failed in that respect that, you know, it didn't come out by itself. But now reading all of those stories, I realized I didn't even get a chance to try. So yeah, I was pretty determined this time around to Trust the process and go with it. Even though it went for a long time, was uneventful, a pretty straightforward forward birth with Willow. This time around, I approached my husband and I was like, I think we can do a home birth this time. He was still quite nervous about it, but he trusted me and he's a very logical person. so that I could help him so that he would know what to do in each situation if anything came up. We went through possible scenarios, know, if this happened, if this happened, what would we do? What would happen? Because he was going to be my support. He was my voice. He knew what to do in each scenario. So every time we went through something, he felt a more and a bit more confident. How did you first hear about like the possibility, I guess, the idea of birthing at home. Like, did you know about that before Willow or is that something you only learnt after having Willow? I feel like I've known it my whole life. Like, it felt like a normal thing to me, even though my mum, she had four children, they were all birthed at the hospital. But a home birth was, I mean, we must have talked about. home birth while I was growing up because it seemed like a normal thing for me. Like a thing that just happens, you know? Even like accidental home births. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And I mean, like, you know, how did women do it hundreds of years ago? Everything like that. Yeah, pretty much all. Yeah. I think that, like, I wish that I could tell everybody that, you know, 300 or so years ago, everyone was birthing at home. humans have been around for thousands and thousands and thousands of years, but it's only in the past, you know, two, 300 years since, you know, obstetrics have like really taken over the birth space and like we've got all these fancy new technologies and ways to manage a woman's body. Yeah. We're having like, we're having to go into hospital. I forget who it was, but, on one of the other episodes, they were saying that, you know, you go to hospital when you're sick. that's the only time you ever like when something's wrong, like you've got low blood pressure, low iron, you've got a sickness, but, but then you also can just go when you're having a normal uncomplicated pregnancy to have an uncomplicated. physiological process that's just, it just, it doesn't line up to me. No, that's right. But yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. That's awesome. And did Patrick have any idea about home births or, know? No, he, it was definitely a new, new concept to him. Especially because like I said before, his family, quite medical based. They grew up, you know, every Every time something happened here, have this drug, have this drug, this drug will help. They're pretty knowledgeable about it, but I think a little bit overdone. So yeah, I was kind of raised the complete opposite. Any ailment, any problem, there was a natural solution. So, you know, if I had a sore stomach, my mum would give me some bicarb and a glass of water. Yeah. And that would either settle it or it would bring up whatever was the problem and then I'd feel great afterwards. Yeah. Whereas Pat's mum, they'd have some sort of drug to settle the stomach or anything like that. Yeah. So yeah, we're just complete opposite ends. yeah, over our relationship, because we've been together for nine years now, over our relationship, we've been... basically teaching each other what we know and depending on the situation, 99 % of the time we will use the natural route because it just works better. And then as an absolute last resort, turn to the medical side because it has its time and place, but I do feel it is overused a lot. So through the pregnancy, he was still nervous like right up to the end and it didn't help that his mum was in his ear every other weekend saying you know I think this is a bad idea you know I'll pay for your midwife everything like that because we we didn't get a midwife because in in Queensland I'm not sure about the other states but in Queensland it's upwards of like five thousand six thousand dollars for a private midwife yeah which obviously was out of our budget a lot. we decided for mostly I did this for my husband so that he had someone to support him is that we got a daughter. Yeah. And yeah, she was lovely. You know, we I didn't I didn't really see her too many times leading up to the birth, but we did talk a lot. And yeah, really I had her there so that he would feel a little bit more confident. Like if there was something that he couldn't recognize, she would. yeah, so Pat's mum kept saying, you know, I'll pay for your med wife and blah, blah, blah. She was really putting a lot of fear into Pat. And that really frustrated me and really annoyed me. And what annoyed me the most was that she was talking to him about it instead of me. And this was my birth, but she was talking to him through him to relay messages. it was really frustrating at that point. Yeah, it's like totally. Like I think at times like that comes from a place of love and care. But yeah, also when you love and care for someone, you also want to trust them, I guess. I think just like in general, there's just such a distrust in women's bodies. Especially if people have come from that medical mindset that you know, that you need the medicines to make you better. And I think we've really lost touch of, you know, those natural remedies, guess, like the bi-carb. I certainly have never done that. You know, I would also have been offered a medicate as particular medication or something. Yeah. And I, yeah, I feel that this journey to birthing at home, it really gets you in touch with who you are as a human, not just, you know, as a number, just walking around like, yes, like it connects you with your body, like, and why, why wouldn't you want to be connected to your body? Yeah. But yeah, well, okay. So going back a little bit. you found out you were pregnant and you decided that you would like to birth at home, but affording a private midwife, like I'm pretty sure it's in every state, is extremely expensive. So you decided to go, guess in many ways it's more similar to a free birth. Would you say that? Yes, I'd say it was more towards a free birth, not quite a wild birth. did still get one scan at 20 weeks very quick, was just to check the location of the police centre for my husband's peace of mind. because his mum had mentioned, you know, if the placenta is covering the cervix and the baby can't come out, everything like that. to ease his mind, we went and did a scan and yeah, they said, yep, everything looks great, blah, blah, blah. So then, you know, that's it, we left. was all the intervention I got in that regards. you found out you were pregnant at home and then just accepted, cool, we're pregnant. Yeah, basically. And then I went about my day. Wow, that's that is so cool. And like, yeah, well, did you so as you were getting, I guess, more noticeably pregnant stuff, did people start asking like, where are you birthing? Who are you birthing with? Yeah, yeah, we we definitely chose to keep that information a bit more private. So we weren't just telling anyone because we wanted to reduce the amount of fear that people might put onto us. Yeah, absolutely. Because there is a lot of misconception around it. Sometimes it comes from people who haven't even had kids yet. They don't know what it's like or it's coming from people who have birthed in a hospital, they've had complications, it's resulted in an emergency C-section or anything like that. you know, they reflect on their experience and, obviously it comes from a good place, but it's not what we needed. yeah, we kept who we told to a minimum, but even that minimum was not small enough. I did joke to Pat at the beginning that we just don't tell anyone what we're doing at all. Yeah, it eventually got found out because I wasn't going to any of the hospital appointments. And every time one of the family members would chime in and be like, yeah, how did this appointment go? was like, yeah, well, we didn't do that. Yeah. Did you, obviously, in a midwifery sort of model, they, you know, check your fundal height or they, you know, do palpation like to try and find where baby is, et cetera. Did you do any kind of checks yourself? No, not until, not until the very end, only because I was curious. I had a look at baby mapping to try and figure out where the head was, where the legs, just for my own curiosity. Because, you know, babies can turn. in the last 15 minutes kind of thing. So it wasn't really a concern of mine. Yeah. And if, you know, if the baby was going to be breached, then I had prepared myself for that as well. Yeah. And and yeah, I read it was it was a bit difficult to figure out what was the bum and what was the head. But but I also did some spinning baby techniques only because. I was getting some trapped gas in the last couple of weeks just because the room was running out or it felt like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, that really helped to relieve it because there's this one movement where you kneel on the edge of a couch or the edge of a chair and then you put... Yeah. The inversion. And then it just lifts the baby off of all of your organs and gives it a chance to just reset. And it was just such a good feeling in these last few weeks. Yeah. You're the fourth person that I've had on the podcast so far. And every single person has mentioned the forward leaning inversion. it is so good. I highly recommend it. Yeah. That's so funny. That's great. And did you have like, I guess, throughout the pregnancy, you know, trying to avoid these fear-based anxieties from other people. Did you have any concerns? Like, did it ever occur to you about, you know, any risks that could happen or you were pretty much like, that could happen. this is how we're going to deal with it. Yeah, I'm quite a positive thinker. I believe that the subconscious is very powerful. And so what you believe is what will happen. So I make sure like in those situations, yes, I will acknowledge that that is a possibility, but it's not something I envision happening. So yeah, I did have a look, know, in case this happened, this is what we're going to do, you know, if like I said to my husband, if you know, the cord like if it falls out before the baby, then this is the movement I have to do. This is what you do. You call an ambulance, blah, blah, blah. And we go from there. And then that's where we left it. Like that was that ticked off the list. That's what happens if we do that. And then we went through the other ones. But me, while I was envisioning my birth, I was envisioning everything going perfectly. I was trusting my body knew what to do. And yeah, so me personally, I had no fears through the whole pregnancy. Yeah. I was the only thing that worried me was my husband because, you know, it was, he was still quite nervous about it all. Yeah. With Willow or Leo, did you do any child birth education kind of stuff? I did. I did it with Willow. I did a hypnobirthing course. Yeah. And, and that was, really good information. Did your husband, did Pat also do it? Yeah, he did it with me. So just those light massage techniques and the breathing techniques were, they were amazing. That's something I also highly recommend because you, you know, they let you know through each stage the best way to breathe through it. And sometimes you might want to change it up, but a lot of the time it's what you need. so I use that through Willow's long labour. And for my second pregnancy, I still remembered the basics of it and didn't feel like I needed to refresh or anything. So, you know, when I went into labour with Leo, it kind of, you know, it all kind kind of came back to me and I just went into my own space and it just came naturally. didn't even have to think about the type of breathing I had to do. That's amazing. Yeah, that's so I find this story so cool because like a hospital birth and a birth without and a midwife, for example, they're so different. And I just I find that really empowering that you went through, I guess, this transformation that you just had such immense trust in yourself and your body and we're just like, well, of course I can do it. That's just very cool. Apart from hypnobirthing and with Willow and whatnot, where do you think you like, did you, like, was it just from reading and listening to birth stories or how did you find this sort of sense of empowerment? It was definitely reading the birth stories. That was I loved it. I loved going through all of the posts and reading everyone's birth story and just, and feeling it because you know, that emotion comes through. You can feel how they were feeling and it just excited me further for my turn, you know, for my turn to experience that, to experience what they were experiencing for those home births. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. Cool. So you went through your pregnancy. you know, acknowledging any possible things that might happen, helping out Pat to kind of come to terms with everything. At what point did you decide that you would hire a doula? right at the beginning. So as soon as I knew I was pregnant, I was having a look around at recommendations. then we had a few like introductory meetings with about three different dollars and I picked the one that I felt I connected with the most. Yeah, that makes sense. Cool. And did Pat have the opportunity to ask any questions or things like that to try and ease his fears? Yeah, so with each appointment, well, I say appointment with each coffee meeting we had. before then, you know, we went through and I said to Pat, all right, let's write down all of the questions so that we can bring them up and, you know, tick those off the list, get an answer for each one. Yeah. And so, leading up to the birth, I saw my daughter probably only three or four times, only because, you know, it was just... Let's catch up, see where we're at and everything like that. It's just rapport building, making sure you're comfortable. Yes. It was more just to get to know each other more because she was going to be in my birth space and I wanted to feel more of a connection with her. Every meetup we did, there wasn't any listening to any heartbeats or checking the size or anything like that. Yeah. Nothing of that. It was just a conversation and we were talking about our days, our weeks, how we were going, everything like that. Yeah. And yeah, and that was that. Amazing. Cool. So when did it all happen then? So it was on a Tuesday. Yeah. I woke up and I was a bit annoyed that I still wasn't in labor because I, you you try and prepare for everything. But I kind of had this idea that the second would come earlier than the first. Yeah, I was sold that idea as well. Yeah. Yeah. So when it got to the same gestation as Willow, I was like, all right, he's not here yet. Okay. Now what? I was getting a little bit bored because I had completed all my tasks, finished all I wanted to get finished before the baby came. yeah, then- 41 plus five, yeah. Well, it was actually 41 plus two because with Willow, we went off of the scan date for her gestation, which was coming up a week later or a week earlier, I can't remember, than if I calculated it from like ovulation. Yeah. turns out, so Willow, I thought came at 41 plus two, but she actually came 41 plus five. So yeah, when it got to 41 plus two with Leo, I was like, all right, hasn't happened yet. Come on, baby, where are you? okay, well, let's do a more organizing, you know? Anyway, and then it got... Yeah, and then... 41 plus five came and I woke up that morning and I was kind of expecting to go into labor overnight because that's what happened with Willow. Labor started at about 1 a.m. And so every morning I'd wake up and I'd be like, no baby yet. Still pregnant. So we got up and Pat decided that day that he was just going to start his leave. because he was getting quite anxious about not having his phone on him and not getting a call that I was in labor. And we decided it was close enough to just start his leave. And so he decided to stay home that day. So we we decided to go out to the shops to get some food and everything like that. And as we got into the car, I felt like the tiniest little cramp. OK. And I was like, my God, was that my imagination? Yeah. And I didn't say anything. I was like, no, don't want to give anyone false hopes. just kept it to myself. And then we got to the shops and started walking around. you know, within maybe an hour of it starting, I had to stop walking at each contraction. So there were definitely contractions. Yeah. I had to stop walking. and wait until it was over and then keep going. And so we didn't even get any food. We got there and we got my daughter a smoothie and Pat was like, so should we go home or can we go to Kmart and do some browsing and everything like that? And I think probably the hardest decision through my whole pregnancy was that moment deciding whether we should just. stay and keep browsing or if we should go home and set up the birth pool. Yeah, wow. And I was like, you know what, let's just go home. So we went home and Pat started blowing up the birth pool and filling that up. And my daughter was helping him and she was super excited. Yeah. Because, actually the whole pregnancy, we were trying to figure out what would happen with Willow, like would we drop her off somewhere and probably until like 30 weeks, the plan was to drop her off at Pat's brother's place. Yeah. You know, while everything happened. But then I started watching some birth videos and I started seeing, you know, siblings there watching and, you know, just being there and experiencing it. And and I was like, what? why don't we give Willow that opportunity? And so we decided just to keep her home, just, you know. Yeah. So she would have been around three and a half at that time, is that right? Yeah, three and a half years old. yeah, Willow and Pat, they were filling up the birth pool and I had my playlist going. So one thing I didn't do with Willow is I didn't have a dedicated music playlist. And so for the And I only got around to it with my second pregnancy in the last couple of weeks because I wasn't really drawn to it. You know, when you have the motivation to do something, well, the motivation wasn't there. So I didn't push it. I didn't try and force it. And then one day I was like, I feel like doing the music. And so, yeah, I sat down with just like some small things that don't take any brain power to do. and I was sitting on the floor, know, doing that, listening to the music, just going through all my other playlists. And I was like, yes, I like that one. So I added it to my birth playlist. Yeah. And then after I'd gone through my music, I went through some previous posts in the home birth groups of other women sharing their playlists. And I went through their playlists and I picked the ones that I liked. Yeah, that's excellent. So, yeah, I had that and I started the music and What I really liked about my playlist was that at the start of it, it was quite upbeat and music that you really want to dance to. I found myself dancing through the contractions and it was amazing. Just like the way that your body moves with the music helped move the baby, you know, helped with the contractions and it just felt like the right thing to do. So yeah, I was dancing along through my labor, through the music. Pat was filling up the birth pool. I had messaged my Dula earlier, letting her know that the contractions had started. And she was like, I'm about to get on a boat to do some whale watching. And I was like, you know, that's fine. I was like, how long is it going to take? She's like, probably like one or two hours. And I'm like, yeah, that's fine. Get on the boat, do your whale watching. You know, it's just the start. and everything like that. So she went way out watching and my husband joked later on, he was like, you're the whale she should be watching. And so that was a good laugh. then through while Pat was filling up the pool, Willa would come over and she would ask me questions and I was able to talk to her through the contractions and she knew that when I had a contraction, she needed to stop and wait. And she was really good at that. And then, so then I had bought myself a birth comb. yeah. So, yeah, just for the pressure points on the hand, because I didn't have that for my first either. But my daughter had given me Banksy pod. They're like these seed pods with the and and all around them, they've got little like mini clamshells. all around them that are like rounded and you hold them in your hand and they literally hit every point of your hand when you squeeze them. while I was in labour, I tried the birth comb, but it was actually a little frustrating because I kept having to move it and it wasn't hitting the right points. So I then tried the Banksyr pods. And I was able to squeeze them. didn't have to maneuver them. I didn't have to think about it. I could just squeeze them and they hit every point. And it was so good, such a good feeling during the contractions to use them. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, they were amazing. Do you think that it reduced the intensity of the contraction or do you think that it just like... redirected your attention. Yeah, definitely redirected me to my hands and instead of the contraction. they were amazing because you know, instinctively you want to squeeze something. So squeezing these pods was such a good feeling. Like a big relief. I also had a TENS machine. by the time I was putting it on, the Dula had arrived at that point. She was having a look at the intensity that I was having them at and she was like, do you think you want to get into the pool? She was like, at that intensity, you might want to get some relief from the pool. I said, I don't want to get in too early because You hear so many stories that it can slow down labor. She said that she doesn't believe that's actually a thing. She said if the baby is ready to come, no water is going to stop it. I was like, okay, because I was so excited because I didn't get that chance with Willow. We took the TENS machine off after like five minutes and I started walking over to the pool, which was only like two meters from me. And after a meter, I had to stop again because there was another contraction. And then got into the pool with the help of both my daughter and my husband. And when you submerge in that water and it just lifts the weight and you've just got such free movements, it was such an amazing feeling to get in that pool. I wish I'd gotten in a bit earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And anyway, so at that point, I thought like the the intensity level, I would have said was probably a five out of ten compared to Willow. She was definitely a ten out of ten for intensity. But yeah, this time around, it was probably five out of ten. So I was expecting, you know, quite a bit more time, like a few more, like a lot of hours, maybe like ten hours before anything was happening. At this point, it had been Five hours and 45 minutes. Yeah, since that first... Since the first contraction. Yeah. Wow. Or the first niggly feeling. Yeah, and your waters haven't broken? No, waters haven't broken yet. Cool. So yeah, I got into the pool and it was just a relief. And then I had this break because the contractions were coming quite regularly. But then after I got into the pool, I had this break from the contractions for a good five minutes. Yeah. And, you know, past me would have been like disappointed in that because I didn't want it to slow down or stop. But in that moment, it was, it was so good to just have a breath and, you know, have a look around at everything, talk to my daughter, talk to my husband, you know, give him a hug, everything like that. And then this mother of all contractions happened. Yeah. And, I felt very, very different and I felt that urge to really bear down with it and so I did. I surrendered to my body and I just let it do its thing and then I felt this pop in the water and I was like, my God, I was shocked. I said, I think that was the waters and my Dool was like, yeah, I saw a few bubbles. think it was. In that moment, I just felt like I had achieved something great because, I wasn't able to break the waters didn't break by itself with Willow. So having them break by themselves was just that first achievement for me. And it was it was just that oxytocin hit where I was just so happy that that had happened. and then, yeah, the feel like it can feel like especially when you're not having any check. of any kind, can feel like you're doing, like you can have trust that your body's doing its thing, but you don't really have anything to measure. Like I guess the contractions can get stronger or longer or more intense. But for me, for example, my contractions were always very irregular. Like they were all, they were always very intense, but I'm not really sure I could measure, like compare the intensity. Yeah. that I also with my recent home birth also kind of was like, like, where am I in this? And yeah, I can imagine that the water's breaking would be like, my body is like, we're doing this. are doing it. It's doing it by itself, you know? And so, yeah, I was just so excited by that. And then after that, there was another strong contraction and Again, I bared down because it just, I just, and I probably sounded like a cow at that point because I wasn't making any noise. Like I didn't feel like I needed to make any noise up until that point. And then I just, I just felt like my body needed to roar. it kind of came out more like a cow sound. And, and yeah, I, I, I bared down and then I felt that same feeling I'd felt with Willow and I was like, I think that's the head, I think it's there. And yeah, I reached down and he was crowning and I'm like, my gosh. But I was saying this, it wasn't coming out of my mouth. So I was only thinking it. So no one knew that the baby was there. And then yeah, next contraction. So at that point I wasn't I wasn't pushing. I was just surrendering to the contractions, just letting them do their thing. So I could feel his head go down and then go a little bit back up and then down a little bit back up. And I was like, this is good. This is fantastic because this is this is stretching everything slowly, making room for him to come out and everything. Because with Willow, The midwives were telling me I needed to push, push, push. And I was like, but I don't have, I don't have the feeling. I don't have the contraction. and I'm pretty sure that's the reason I teared with her also birthing on my back, think contributed. so yeah, with, with Leo, I was just waiting for the contraction to happen and then, yeah, and then his head popped out. Like I didn't actually feel the ring of fire either. So his head popped out. And then after that, you know, you get that little bit of relief. was able to let everyone know, everyone, my husband and the door that, that his head was out. so you're in the water, you're like in the water right now. Yeah. Yeah. Still, still in the pool. Yeah. So, so yeah, at this point I had dropped the Banksy pods on the floor and reached down to feel his head. And that's also another magical moment. And then I could feel him wiggling around, moving his body around, positioning his shoulders better. And it all felt right. It all felt like this was meant to happen. And then the next contraction came and his body just slipped out really easily. I think I was a little too excited in that moment because I brought him up, not fast, but I brought him up probably quicker than I imagined. I imagined just a slow, but I brought him up a little bit quicker than I thought. I put him on my chest and I was just so happy that I'd done it. I had him in my arms and I was just looking at him and how perfect he was. Because I'd felt him moving between his head coming out and his body, I knew that that he was good. knew that he was fine. But I hadn't voiced that to my husband. So he was looking at this baby who hadn't made a noise yet, who hadn't taken a breath. And he was like quite worried. But I didn't see that. didn't like anything until I watched the birth video back afterwards. I was looking at Pat and I was like, my gosh, you were quite worried. But I didn't feel any of that. And it didn't feel like it went a long time either, because I think it was about a minute before He took his breath. Yeah. But yeah, at that at that moment I just I was just holding him in my arms. I was just looking at him, looking at all of his fingers, all of his toes. Yeah. And and then, yeah. And then he took his breath and he let out this probably like one cry and then he stopped and he opened his eyes and he looked around. And that was that. I just. my goodness. And I looked at Willow and I said, we did it, know, he's here. And the most beautiful thing happened as Willow was standing next to Pat and she looked at him and she said, dad, I want a baby. And I was like, gosh, that's just the most beautiful thing that we could have done for her was to let her experience birth and how beautiful it can be. Yeah. Yeah. my gosh. That like almost brings tears to my eyes. Like that is so beautiful. It's like, my gosh. Wow. So, my gosh. That is so cool. I think it like that really, touches me this way because like so much of what you're saying about, you know, like the head moving and everything in the pool. Like that happened for me as well. And like, I obviously had, you know, a couple more people around me, but, Like I just, yeah, I remember being like, Whoa, it's, it's happening. Like I'm doing it. I'm actually doing it. And then went, yeah, I also have a video. I'm really keen to share, like, yeah, like grabbing him through the water and then bringing him up. And in the video, I'm just saying, I did it. did. Yep. That's right. my gosh. Like such like. the most empowering feeling ever. really is. And I just felt this great sense of accomplishment at that moment. yeah, I stayed in the pool for about probably an hour just staring at him. It felt like five minutes, but it was about an hour. then, yeah, we were like, OK, know, pool's getting a little bit cold. So we decided to get out. Yeah. And waddled over to the couch and I sat down and then we started, he did the whole newborn crawl on my chest over to my breast and he started feeding and then at that point I felt the contractions start up again. for the placenta and this was that last puzzle piece, that last piece that I was trusting my body could do and I had allowed, I was prepared to wait like a whole day for it to come out. I was fine with it. If it needed to stay in that long, then that was fine. But yeah, it was only a little bit past an hour. The contractions started up again. I squatted over a bowl, gave a little push and it just Plop straight out. Yeah. Amazing. And I was on cloud nine. Yeah. You know, all these things that I felt I didn't get a chance to do the first time. Yeah. I had trusted my body and it just did it by itself, you know? And, you know, this home birth was kind of that healing birth that I didn't know I needed. Yeah. Because you convinced yourself that it was OK. Yeah. but then you experience it so much better and you're like, you wish everyone could experience birth that way. Yeah. Well, that's how I actually have been talking about my recent home birth that I've had two home births. And I think like, obviously in home birth, you have a lot more power and you know, it's your space. So what you say goes. yeah, in my first birth, it also went pretty well, but it was the placenta that I got caught up by that. And I also had to have the injection and, in like after Frankie was born, I was like, wow, I didn't actually realize that I was so hung up about having the injection, know? Yeah. but like being able to have that completely 100 % physiological labor birth, birth placenta like that. That is so empowering in itself. Like your body did it from, from all everything, all of it. did all by itself. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And, did you have any tears? No, no, no tears, not even a graze. Amazing. That's so cool. and what did Willow, what was Willow doing? How did Willow take it? my gosh, such a sweet girl. was sitting on the couch and I was just feeding Leo and just gawking over him. And she came over with, because she's got a little tablet where she's got a few learning apps on, but she also knows how to use the camera function. So she came over with her tablet and she was taking photos of us. gosh. So thankful, so appreciative of her and she couldn't stop looking at him and you could see that it was like love at first sight. then yeah, the next day we put the feeding pillow around her and laid him on it and she had the biggest smile. You knew in that moment that they were just connected. And like to this day, they still love each other every time Leo sees. I'm pretty sure Leo started smiling at her before he was smiling at me. So yeah, it was just such a beautiful feeling to see. Yeah. Yeah. That is so special. And so how long did the doula stick around for? So she stuck around until after the placenta came out and she checked it over and everything was intact. And then she backed it up and labelled it and put it in our freezer so that we could do something with it later. Yeah. And it's still in our freezer. We are waiting because we're currently in a rental. So we're waiting until we are moved into our own home before we decide that we plant it. So until then, it's just living in there. But yeah, she The doula gave me a few tinctures, so some afterbirth pain tinctures, because I didn't actually feel any afterbirth pains with Willow. But with Leo, they were intense afterwards, especially while breastfeeding. that was a new experience. So those tinctures were definitely a godsend. And she also had made up a little chai. for me and a few pieces of dark chocolate and had some coconut water as well. So she'd also made for me, it was like an apple crumble, just some things in the fridge. She cleaned up the kitchen. She helped empty the birth pool and then yeah, she, yeah, we weighed him and he was exactly four kilos. So yeah, when Willow was born, she was 3.7 kilos and Leo was 4 kilos. Wow. That is so cool. Yeah. then, you know, that's all we needed from her. So she left. then, yeah, we continued our day because he was born at 2 p.m. So we just, you know. We just went on with our day. went to bed as usual. With my first, I had this idea that I'm pretty sure a lot of first time parents have that their children are just going to sleep in a cot, you know, on the other side of the room. But that didn't happen. So I decided to co-sleep with Willow from about two days old. And it was probably the best decision I ever made. I learned how to sleep safely with her. We got one of the sides off of the bassinet. We put it up against our bed. She had her own space, but she was right next to me. When she needed a feed, I'd just sit up and I'd feed her. At around nine months old with her, I was a bit of a zombie because she was feeding every half an hour through the night. did some research and discovered a technique to feed lying down. yeah. And my gosh, I'd wish I'd done that from the start. It saved me. I was able to basically sleep through her feeding, you know, just leaving my boob out and she could help herself. Yeah, I've seen videos of that. yeah. Yeah. So this time around with Leo, I just, you know, from the beginning just started co-sleeping with him, feeding him lying down. And you know what? I didn't experience the newborn fatigue with him. I didn't get that sleep deprivation because, you know, I was able to sleep through his feeds. didn't even have to nap with him during the day. Like I felt like I had energy. I felt really good. and yeah, so, you know, still co-sleeping now, we actually all still sleep in the same bedroom. Our bed is like four or five meters long. to accommodate all of us. But yeah, it is amazing. I do have one last question. So you have Leo. When are you telling everybody that Leo has been born? How did everybody else take that whole delivery of information? Yeah. through the labor, because I didn't want to tell anyone I was in labor because I didn't want anyone putting their last minute fears on us or anything like that. we did keep Pat's mum in the loop just in case we needed someone to pick up Willow, just in case she didn't handle it well or anything like that. yeah, he was keeping her in the loop. then, yeah, I think it was the next day that we messaged the immediate family just over Facebook Messenger. Yeah. And just let them know that Leo was born safely at home. Yeah. And he was doing well and everything like that. And I was doing well. yeah, you know, we got all the congratulations. then one comment came in from one of the siblings, which you could read between the lines was more of a, know, we're glad that nothing went wrong. my God. Thanks. my gosh, people would never say that to somebody like Berthier and a hospital ever. No, that's right. thank you so much for sharing your amazing story. thank you for giving me the opportunity. Yeah, of course. I look as I've said a few times in your story, like I connect with so much of it. Like it feels a little bit like you're telling my story. Yeah. So that's like so funny to hear, like the similarities. that like occurred. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. But yeah, also how empowering birth stories are and the impact that they can have. it really, it really is. Because like in different birth stories as well, you can see like, because, you know, it's not always perfect. There are things that come up sometimes, but then you read what they did in that scenario and you're like, I never would have thought of that. That is amazing. Noting that down. You know. Instead of, you know, feeling afraid that that might happen, you feel more knowledgeable, you feel more confident because you know what to do in that situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, even what you said about, you know, the placenta and like how you feel that, you know, you weren't given the opportunity to get up and walk around and like actually try to, you know, make that whole process happen. Like, I've never thought of that. I just thought they didn't give me enough time, but I never, even with Frankie, I was like, I'll wait like at least an hour. Like I've read so much, it can take hours. I feel comfortable to wait an hour. And, but I never thought about, you know, the way that I would approach that if it didn't happen, you know, like if I would get up and move around and like that's, yeah, I can't believe I never thought about that. Yep. Get up, walk around, initiating breastfeeding helps to trigger it as well. And also something as simple as sniffing the top of their head. Yeah. That amazing newborn smell right on the top of their head. That's what sends signals to the brain saying, yeah, the baby is out. You can let that placenta go now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, at the end of the day, we are just animals. So yeah. that makes a lot of sense. Did you have anything else to add? Actually, there was one more thing. Yeah, yeah. Birth affirmations. yeah. Yeah, the whole time, all through my pregnancy, I was like, I got to do the birth affirmations. I got to do, I got to write them up. I got to stick them up around the place, you know, everything like that. But I wasn't drawn to doing it. I didn't, you know, I did sit down at one point to try and do it and I just, I blanked, I couldn't think of anything to put down. didn't feel like I, you know, what I was writing or even copying and pasting others. didn't like, didn't resonate. And then it got to the point, it was like a week before I gave birth. I was like, you know what? I'm not feeling that I need the birthing affirmations because I have no fears. I know, I already know that I can do this. I don't need reminders that I can do this. with Willow, when I was in labour with her and even though it went for so long, not a single time did I think that I couldn't birth her and not a single time did painkillers ever cross my mind. So I thought, you know, I didn't have any issues the first time with my mentality. So I didn't. think I needed affirmations this time and I didn't, you know, I went through the labor and you know, I was focusing on myself. I had my eyes closed most of the time. I wouldn't even have been able to see them on the wall. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, you know, so I just didn't do them and I didn't need them. Yeah, yeah, well, I'd also never thought about that. Like if you have no fears about it, then you don't need to be like, yeah. If you're so confident in yourself, you don't need to be reminded to be confident in yourself. That's such a good point. I had my biggest support, which was my husband. He was there the whole time. He was doing the massages on me. He was making sure I was staying hydrated. He was making sure that Willow knew what was going on. He was my voice through that whole thing. is what I needed the most. he knew that and he delivered and it was just, yeah, he was amazing. Amazing how far he had come from all of that doubt. Yeah. I think there needs to be a bit more support around partners during birth because sometimes they can feel a bit helpless, which he did with Willow's birth. He didn't know what to do. He didn't know what to say. He didn't know how to do anything. so I guess from that experience, he didn't want to do that again. He didn't want to have that helpless feeling. So we did a lot of preparation. I told him all the things that I'd love for him to do while I was in labor. yeah, he knew what to do. He had his job and he did it so perfectly. so he felt a lot more involved in the birth this time around. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that's probably quite healing for him as well. I think so too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go Pat. Okay. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story and doing so so relatively early on a Sunday morning as well. Thank you. I can't wait to hear what other people, yeah, how other people feel about hearing this story because Yeah, man, I feel on a high. can start my day on a high. That's very cool. Yes, me too. I love, I love reliving it. I think about it at least, you know, seven times a week. Amazing. Well, now you can listen to it seven times a week as well. Yeah, exactly. Okay, cool. All right. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye. Bye. I hope you've enjoyed listening to Michaela's amazing free birth story. I have many more episodes to come, so don't forget to follow along by clicking follow on whatever podcast host you're listening to this on, or by following the Instagram where you can also message me to share your birth at home story on the podcast. And finally, as always, I've left some show notes in the episode description, so please check them out. Stay tuned for episode five.