Today's midwife story is from Ineka - mum of one little boy born at home, and a homebirth/private midwife. Ineka is based in the Newcastle region and today share's how initially, she didn't think she would be able to get the results to be accepted in to a Bachelor of Midwifery program. After some soul searching through travel, including attending a talk by Ina May Gaskin, Ineka returned to Australia determind to be a midwife.
She talks about how she achieved her 5000 hours and found her way in to private midwifery, reclaiming her own power as a midwife, in a system that generally disempowers midwives and limits their scope drastically to keep the hierachy of the medical model.
Please share with any student midwives and midwives, or anyone who may be interested in Ineka's great story :)
Links to resources:
CHAPTERS
00:00
Introduction and Background
10:49
Becoming a Privately Practicing Midwife
29:35
Trusting Birth and Supporting Autonomy
52:28
Birth as a Transformative Experience
59:06
Exploring Birthing Options
Today's midwife story is from Ineka - mum of one little boy born at home, and a homebirth/private midwife. Ineka is based in the Newcastle region and today share's how initially, she didn't think she would be able to get the results to be accepted in to a Bachelor of Midwifery program. After some soul searching through travel, including attending a talk by Ina May Gaskin, Ineka returned to Australia determind to be a midwife.
She talks about how she achieved her 5000 hours and found her way in to private midwifery, reclaiming her own power as a midwife, in a system that generally disempowers midwives and limits their scope drastically to keep the hierachy of the medical model.
Please share with any student midwives and midwives, or anyone who may be interested in Ineka's great story :)
Links to resources:
CHAPTERS
00:00
Introduction and Background
10:49
Becoming a Privately Practicing Midwife
29:35
Trusting Birth and Supporting Autonomy
52:28
Birth as a Transformative Experience
59:06
Exploring Birthing Options
You're listening to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I recorded this episode on unceded Wurundjeri land in Nam, Melbourne, Australia, where Aboriginal peoples had been birthing at home on country for thousands of years prior to the British invasion. They are the original storytellers. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast or how I can support you in achieving your home birth, be sure to check out my Instagram at birthingathome.com. underscore a podcast. This is another midwife story in the midwives supporting home birth series. And today I chat with Inika, a private midwife in the Newcastle region, who is such an inspiration for students and midwives out there who want to support home birthing families and working a model that truly offers continuity of care. Inika also chose to have a home birth with her son. And we chat about the power of birth and the importance of women being supported to trust themselves. an amazing episode that you should absolutely share with any student or currently practicing midwives. Enjoy. Before the episode has even begun, let me clear up some confusion about Ineka and Ineka. They're the same person guys, just different pronunciations of Ineka's name. So just roll with it and don't let it get in the way of you enjoying this brilliant episode. Welcome Ineka to birthing at home, a podcast. No, thank you so much for having me. Thank you. To be completely honest listeners, this is the third time that we're doing this. And Ineka has actually already been three minutes into this incredible introduction. Ineka, do you want to start off by telling the listeners a bit about who you are, where you live as well? Absolutely. So I am a privately practicing midwife. and I am based in the Newcastle region. I am a mum of one crazy little fun toddler named Ilya and he is currently watching me right now. Very confused. So yeah, so I have a crazy little toddler joining me on this interview. And private midwifery is essentially where a midwife has to go and become endorsed. And from that they become insured and they gain providing and prescribing rights. So essentially private midwives are able to support women through their preconceptual period into their pregnancy, birth and postpartum. And they can provide anything along those journeys that is necessary. So bloods, ultrasounds. pretty much anything and everything that you might need in that journey. Yeah. It makes it incredibly helpful when you meet someone who's wanting to get pregnant, then you can help them get pregnant and then you can look after them when they are pregnant. It's amazing to be able to do everything. Yeah, that is it is amazing. It means I mean, there's so, so many benefits to continuity of care, but it's also a lot more. enjoyable as the healthcare provider because it's, you know, quite exhausting, you know, as a student, like, as you would know, we kind of we discussed this a little bit before, but I if I had to finish my midwifery, I would have graduated in 2017. So you graduate like, yeah, you graduated just after me. Wow. Yeah. But so like, I remember, like having to get a hundred antenatal appointments, a hundred postnatal appointments, and you're in and out, you're having to learn people's stories like so quick and then you've got to get it out of your mind because the next person's coming through. Yeah. And this, I mean, there's so, so many benefits to continuity of care, but I'm so curious what led you to becoming a midwife, like what growing up, like what, was your understanding of pregnancy and birth and your path into midwifery? So my mom is a nurse and anything and everything medical or anatomy, the body, anything along those lines was really, really open, easily discussed. It was, it was, if you have a question, it was always a safe place to ask. So I remember learning about the reproductive system. and just being completely and utterly perplexed at Mike. So you take two things and you put them together and they turn into something else. And then it turns into a baby and then the baby comes out. And I have this like distinct memory of just being, how? So intrigued, so mesmerized by this process that. I desperately wanted to do it. I wanted to learn more about it. And that was very fleeting. I was very young. And then in high school, in year 12, I was a bit of a rat bag. And I just remember being like, I think I want to be a midwife. Like I really think I do. And I looked up in the booklet and it was telling you what ATAR you needed to have in order to get into the degree you wanted. And... As I previously mentioned, I was a bit of a rat bag. And I looked and I saw that the eight hour was 98. And I immediately was like, there is absolutely no way. There's no way I'm going to be able to achieve that. I'm going to do the next thing that I'm interested in, which is photography. Yeah. So I completely didn't follow midwifery at all. And I went down and I studied photography and became a photographer and worked in portrait photography. And then. was unhappy with my life, which is so interesting, because I wasn't doing what I wanted to do. And I decided that I would leave Australia and I wasn't going to come back until I knew what I wanted to do. And a week into my trip, I walked past this woman in Vietnam who was heavily pregnant and it just hit me. It was so hard. I was like, oh, I know what I want to do. I want to be a midwife. Damn it. Now it was just that realization is like, no, no, you know what you want to do. Your self -doubt is the thing that has been preventing you from doing it. And now you just need to get to the place where. It doesn't matter how long it takes. You just need to commit to it. And, and that's what I did. So I ended up spending my trip going around the world and trying to meet as many birthing people. So I went and saw Ina May speak. Oh, wow. It was the most incredible trip. What the heck? Yeah. It was in, not in Ontario, you know, in Vancouver, sorry, in Vancouver, Canada. Yep. Was almost, it was the excitement in the room was like going to a rock concert. It was like everyone was buzzing and I like sat right front row and I like looking up at her and I was like, oh my goodness. Yeah. Wow, that is so cool. Oh, it was amazing. So I tried to spend that time to try and figure out what could I possibly do to make my application better? Anyway, lo and behold. Um. We got back to Australia. I got into nursing because I didn't get into midwifery with my ATAR and I had to spend 12 months working towards, oh, a semester, not 12 months, a semester towards bridging across. Yeah. And so I did that and I got in, which was amazing. And then in my training, I had met and we had the privilege of being able to work. with a private midwife for some of my antenatal experience and her name is Bronwyn and she owns Lismore Birth House and she's phenomenal. And from that moment, I was like, this is what I want to do. Like I want to be a private midwife. But in my head, I was like, that's something way off into the future. Like that's a distant, distant, distant. possibility. Yeah. And it wasn't until I had my first baby. Yeah. And I was working towards trying to get onto the group practice in the area. And when I had come back from maternity leave much too early, I tried to get back on the pathway to get into group practice to get back into home birth, because I hadn't been back in home birth since I was training at Byron. Yeah. And I didn't want to work full time. And I realized there was no option to work in a group practice unless you worked full time. Yeah. And I didn't like that. I was like, no, no, no, I want to be a mother as well. Like I want to do these things. I shouldn't have to choose. Yeah. Don't compromise. Yeah. Yeah. No compromise. No compromise. And I pretty much had to start a private practice. as the only way of being able to work in a group practice, or sorry, as a privately practicing midwife is to open up my own business. Because the hospital, let me explain that again. So in order to work in a continuity of care model, the hospital system refused to split caseloads. So you had to take on a full load. People always ask, why did you go into private midwifery? I was like, because it was the only option for me. It was something that I needed to do and I wanted to do. But the reality of not being able to work in a model that I loved, unless I chose to be a parent or not be a parent essentially, that's what it felt like. My only option was to go private and I was like, well, fuck it, here we go, let's go for it. which was really, really challenging and hard because Ilya was... So I opened my business when Ilya was... just over a year old. So I started working on the business when he was nine months old. So I went back to uni when he was nine months old. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. Cause you've got to do. So, um, the 5 ,000 hour thing. So you had to achieve that and then you can like do the endorsement. So it's a really finicky, messy process. So essentially if, If you want to become a privately practicing endorsed midwife, what you need to achieve is you need to prove that you have attended 5 ,000 clinical hours. Now, if you are able to find a midwife in a group practice, in a private practice, in a hospital, you can work anywhere in that field. as long as you can prove that you've done those 5 ,000 hours. So there's a private midwife who's just got her endorsement down in Sydney. I've forgotten her name, she's beautiful. And she was able to attain the majority of her 5 ,000 clinical hours postgraduate in a home birth setting with private midwives. Yeah, well, as being like the second. As being the second, yeah. So that's so unheard of. and incredible. But for most midwives, the only opportunity is to get a job in a hospital. Do your 5000 clinical hours, which is approximately three years full time. Yeah. Once you have that, you then need to attend a or in between that time. So whilst you're gaining those 5000 clinical hours, you then have to get a postgraduate certificate in pharmacology for midwives or a master's degree. I was very much smarter, not harder and straight for the postgraduate certificate in pharmacology. And that was the most content heavy degree, like certificate. It was mental, absolutely mental. But I always go, if I could have achieved it with a nine month old and the only way I had time to study was when he was sleeping. Anyone can achieve it. Absolutely. So you do your 5 ,000 clinical hours, you get your prescribing rights, which is through the certificate of pharmacology and diagnostics for midwives. Then once you have all of those things, so the certificate, your clinical hours, you then have to apply for endorsement through APRA. So the endorsement is a massive process. It is you have to prove everything. So all your experiences, you have to prove where you've had experience in like, if you've worked in a hospital, have you just worked in the antenatal clinic or have you worked in the birthing suite and the antenatal clinic? Because depending on where you want to work, so some private midwives will work only in antenatal and postnatal. So they only need to prove that they have experience in those areas. Whereas if you want to be a continuing of care midwife where you're working across the entire spectrum, then you have to prove that you've done that. So once you have your application for endorsement ready, you send it off and it takes anywhere between eight to 12 weeks to get back. And that's everything's correct. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the process. Yeah, it's really good. Wow. Once you get your endorsement back. So once they say, yeah, you have it. You are now an endorsed midwife. The only thing that changes is that if you type in your name to APRA, it comes up and it says yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Looking on my APRA, I'm always like, oh, what does that? What's that mean? But yeah, if you're an endorsed midwife, that's where it appears. Yeah, of course. At the friendly place. Yeah. And then from there, once you're endorsed, you then need to go and get your prescribing and providing rights through Medicare. So they give you your provider number, they give you your prescriber number, which is essentially the thing that makes everything streamlined as a private midwife. Yeah. Because I can request all of my clients first, antenatal bloods, I can send them for their ultrasounds if they want ultrasounds. And then it all comes back to me. It's all managed by me. It's my favorite part is that I can just keep everything all together. I know exactly who's had what, when, where. And then once you have those rights through Medicare, then you have to get your insurance. And your insurance is... Very expensive. Yeah, really? I mean, they've got the monopoly, so that probably makes sense. It is. So they can charge whatever. They can because there's only one insurance agency that will cover private drives. So they can do whatever they want with us and we have to abide. Yeah, yeah, that's mad. Like going back a bit, though, like when, so you... You mentioned that you were exposed to home birth in Byron. Is that the first time that you ever, like, had learnt about home birth? Or did you know about home birth growing up or? When you ask that question, I don't have any memories of being exposed to home birth as a child or anything like that. I think my first home birth experience is as a student midwife rocking up as the sun is rising to a woman's home with my mentor and watching this woman birth this baby by the fire. Like it was, it set the scene completely to how I perceived birth. being the first birth I ever witnessed. But yeah, so that's, yeah. Wow. Yeah. And then, I mean, yeah, like when that set the scene, like, why would you want to be part of a birth experience in any other way, really? Or at least, you know, not exclude that, because, you know, if you work in the hospital system, you're going to see, like, lots of lots of different versions of birth. but like you miss like this whole environment. But if you're a private practicing midwife, you can kind of like dabble in whatever you want. And like, I think, yeah, there's a big, there's an amazing thing to being able to witness home birth and in a really safe and confident place. Like my mentor as well, shout out to Vicky Gersh, she's amazing. Um, is to, I like, I initially, I finished my degree being at Byron and I was like, ah, never seen a woman bleed after birth. Never seen a shoulder to stay shut. Never seen an emergency seizure. Like, wow. I'd never seen it. It just didn't happen. Like, they birthed, they went home and then we started them on their postnatal journey. So I finished being like, I think I've got to learn. Like I think I need to be exposed to this. And it was really interesting going to the John in Newcastle as a new grad and meeting other new grads that had never had experience with a Doppler before. So listening to the fetal heart intermittently, instead of having the CTG monitor tell them, like they had no confidence with it, some of them. And that was... terrifying to me. I was like, hang on a second, like that should be out. That should be the foundations of our practice is no, and then we add as we go. Yeah, I was deeply grateful that my experience was in that way. So I feel really empathetic for a lot of student midwives that I meet that their first experiences turns into an emergency, Caesar or shoulders or something like that, because It sets the scene. It sets the scene of what birth can be and you really trust birth. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like, yeah, you trust that you can breathe. Imagine if we all like walked around being like, oh my gosh, I might stop breathing at any moment. What a horrible way to live. That makes me anxious just thinking about it. Let alone, you know, not being able to birth. Like we, we should be able to trust birth. And yeah, I like I've had two home births and like I've spoken to so many other women that have had home births and free births and like it's such, such power as well. Like it's, you know, you, it's your body, you take control of, you know, bodily autonomy. Um, it's just like a whole different ball game to, um, what is a pretty medicalized maternity system. Um, and so with you as a, um, uh, home birth midwife, how does it work? Because you're like in your own, you've created your own business. How does it work to get seconds? So second midwives. So to the beauty. and the messiness to private, midwifery and home birthing is that there's no insurance. There's absolutely no insurance that covers me during a woman laboring until the baby is born. Once the baby is born, then our insurance goes, oh, yep, all good, no worries, we'll cover you again. So there's this giant gray area. So there's nothing saying that any midwife can come and support a private midwife. So. just a registered midwife can come and be able to support a private midwife in a second capacity. So just like in a hospital where you hit the button on the side of the wall or you call and say, hey, this baby coming, can you come and witness this birth? You legally have to do that in a hospital. You legally have to have a name second at a home birth. And that is incredibly important because... This is the thing we were saying before. It's like you want to trust birth, but you also want to trust the woman and you want to trust that you know what normal is and you want to trust that you know abnormal is and you know what to do in that circumstance. So it to the seconds are so valuable because they're your extra set of hands because worst case scenario, you need two people to look after the mom and potentially look after the baby. So. Yeah. I've forgotten your question about the seconds. How do you find them? I mean, there's no, I mean, there is a shortage of midwives, but like, yeah, how do you, are they relationships that you build? Are they friends that are midwives? Are they other home birth midwives? So it's been really interesting. So in this last year, it has been whoever is available. And then I met. the beautiful Talia Tadasol who is just opened up her private practice, which is very exciting. And her name is Birth with Passion and she's in the SNOC region and she is a hypnobirthing practitioner. She's a midwife. She's incredible. Big plug to her. So she and I by chance, met and I had this beautiful woman who I knew was going to birth really quickly and no one could come. Like none of my usual seconds could come. And I was like, oh no, I really need a second midwife. And I realized that I had Talia's number and I was like, oh, hang on a second. Are you free? Like, do you think that you'd want to come to this birth? And she like was already in the car. She was like, I'm coming, I'm coming, I'm coming. And ever since that birth, we've worked together. So she, You can, it can be anyone. Most midwives will contact me and ask, hey, if ever you need a second midwife, I'm more than happy to be called if you need. When you were, you know, going this route into private practice and home birth midwifery, like, was that just an accepted thing that? you were taking that path, especially with colleagues, because like, you know, you graduate with all of your midwifery cohort and not all of them are becoming home birth midwives, you know? No, yeah. So I had a really, really, really devastating transition, I would say. Like it was so necessary and it was so, like, it was so necessary, I guess. Because I went from having these incredible mentors in home birth and like absolute masters of birth physiology. Yeah. And then stepped into this new environment where these women were masters, these midwives were masters of complex, masters of women who were on death store and they could absolutely look after these women and do the most incredible job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so the interesting thing about working in a tertiary facility is the fact that the population is different because you only ever see a large majority of complex and high risk circumstances and stories. So that becomes your normal. So for a lot of my colleagues, it was... absolutely shocking and how dare I think that I can do this. It was devastating. It was really devastating because I looked up to these midwives so, so much. Like so many of my team leaders, I was like, oh, I respect you so deeply and I respect what you do because as a new grad, I was like, oh my God, I don't know what to do in this situation. And they would come in and they'd be like, we're going to do this, this, this, and this, we're all good. Like everything sorted. Yeah. And I had this one, one midwife who I still adore, but it was very hard. She, I would call her my midwife mom. Yeah. And she, again, she is a specialist in complex. And she said to me, she was, she goes, you're not an M3 team midwife. You cannot take on complex women. like this, like you, you, you can't do that. And I was so heartbroken because I was like, what do you, what do you mean? Like, why, why? Yeah, and that specifically was because one of my first ever clients was a twins client. And at the facility at the tertiary facility where that is near me, and for the women in the Hunter region is to go to the John Hunter hospital. So those women would be seen by the doctors, they'd be seen in the M3 team, which is the high risk continuity team. Because I was doing it differently, there was a lot of, who do you think you are? Like, you're not doing it the way that we all do it, like what's going on? And it was necessary because I needed to learn that they were not there for me, I guess. Which was really sad because I really wanted them to be. I wanted to have these amazing relationships with these incredible, high -risk midwives who when I needed them, they would be there to support me for my clients. And I just had to realize that they weren't. And it was gonna take a different sort of journey and relationship to be able to have what I wanted. So I grieved deeply. Yeah, it was very, very challenging, very challenging. It's been interesting now, like as it's been, like I did have twins, like I did have a twins client and all was well and everything was managed really well. And yeah, things happened and all of a sudden it's like, Oh, you were capable. And it's like, yeah, I was. It's yeah, it was, it's, I think it was just one of those circumstances where I just had to believe in myself and really follow the process and follow. follow what I know is the process, which is you're going to do this, this, this and this at this gestation and we're going to check this. And then, then I'm going to add in all of the beauty that I know that comes with being a midwife and add that into that. Whereas she previously would never have had that. Yeah. It was, yeah, I hope that answers it because it was really, it was really tough. It was really sad. But. interestingly enough, now it's the relationship has changed. Yeah, so they've been incredibly supportive. So I had a client recently who had very specific needs. And I just went straight to my manager, the managers and was like, Look, I have this woman and these are some non negotiables for her. How can we make happen? Yeah. And They just pretty much turn around and said, yep, no worries. We're going to make this happen for you. This woman deserves this. Your service is needed. We want to support you. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, fabulous. Let's do this. Yeah. So I think it's just been, it's just been the journey. It's been the journey for everyone because it's, it's never been done this way. Um, and yeah, we've just got to figure each other out, I guess. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, it's so much I hear that so often that it's so much relationship building and like, you know, in the hospital system, like as a nurse, as well, I experience this all the time is that the hierarchy is so strong. The hierarchy is, you know, you there's no breaking down that hierarchy. But if you leave that system, which you kind of have, 100 % like your hierarchy. It's you, you know, you might have you might have other midwife friends or whatever that might have had more experiences or whatever. But you it feels like you know, in private midwifery, that you kind of on like a level playing field. It's not like you're trying to you know, you're all just doing your thing trying to be with women provide x y z. It's not a matter of like who's better than who and who has any right to do this or that. So like coming out of that system, yeah, I can totally imagine that that would be freeing, but also such a like different way to, you know, again, you also then have to have more trust in yourself as well because like it's you and you and you. And you, you know? I remember walking and being like being called for my first client's home birth. And I remember being like, oh wow, I'm doing this. This is happening. It's me. I am calling everything. Like, this is down to me. And I remember stepping in and stepping into the home and like seeing this woman, Labour and just smiling and being. I've never had, I'm a very, my mind is very chaotic. And I remember stepping into the space and instantly my mind was quiet. And I was like, we're good. Like everything's okay. Like I've never felt so calm, so aware, so confident in what I knew was normal. So that's my biggest thing is when I speak with students, it's like you need to understand normal. so that you can understand when it's abnormal and therefore utilize your toolbox to rectify and bring it back to normal or transfer, either either. But yeah, it's one, yeah, yeah, it's just you out there. It's just you hanging out. So I think there was a big thing when I knew that I wanted to be a private midwife and I was like towing the line about, am I gonna do this, am I not? And one of my biggest fears, what was holding me back was a fear of a shoulder dystocia because previously the only other time I had seen them was from the complete wrong angle because the doctor would come in and they would rectify it and it wasn't your job as the midwife to rectify that. But I kept hearing that this was a midwifery skill and this is what midwives were meant to do and... This is like we did it did it at uni and like we did it in like clinical and all of these things But I just never had this opportunity to do it so I just decided smarter not harder and I would just reach out to every consultant that I think would be willing to speak with me Yeah, I asked them I was like, can you please teach me shoulders? Can you please talk to me through this and I went in the the babe not babe, all these ridiculously expensive yet amazing education workshops and what are they called? Conferences and hands -on experience with so many amazing practitioners and just being like, okay, I have learned everything I could possibly learn now. I just have to do it now. And... yeah, lo and behold, I had my first shoulder dystocia. Yeah, it was managed and this baby was perfectly fine. This woman was very rattled, obvious for obvious reasons. But she trusted me and that that was the biggest thing. And it was the first time that I've been like, wow, yes, that was a midwifery emergency. Yeah, it was free managed. Yeah. And the difference in the outcomes to what I had seen when it's been obstetrically managed, mind you, very different scenarios. But I guess the example is like, this woman had a shoulder dystocia and she was physiologically laboring. And then even with the head out in between, there's no issues with this baby's heart rate. But as soon as we saw that there was a shoulder dystocia, we acted. And I needed to remove this baby's posterior arm. But as soon as that baby's legs were out, they started to cry and they were on the lungs chest. Within 15 minutes, they were breastfeeding. Everything was normal. Like everything was normal. And my previous experiences to a shoulder dystocia is that baby is stunned. It needs a resus, like it goes to NICU, like all of these things. The majority of those babies have probably been induced. So, you know, just to say that. The cause is what, but it was really like, wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. You're led to believe that, like that hierarchy is that no, no, no, you have to be this midwife down here. You have to stay in your, in your space and you cannot come up those reins until you do all of the things that we say you need to do, which is time. And. The reality is, is that's not true. It's, you're capable of whatever you want to go and achieve. And if you want to go and achieve all those experiences, then that's, it's up to you. And I guess, yeah, that's my biggest thing to students is that don't even for a second, buy into that. Oh, it's my biggest pet peeve is hearing students, they just like, you know, new grads have just had their first rotation. in one ward and then they're freaking out being like, oh no, I'm gonna have to go to birth suite. Like, oh, and I'm like, why, why are you, why are you worried? And then like, oh, just because like, what if I, like, I just forgotten everything. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You've just spent three years of your life dedicating your time to learning exactly what you were meant to do. Yeah. Like trust that you know what you're capable of. Like your role is to identify and if you need help, you call for help. You are capable. Like don't buy into it. No, no, no. I can't stand it. You are capable. It hurts my soul. Yeah, absolutely. I do have a final question, which might lead to two questions. Did you have a home birth or was your some, yeah? Yeah, no, I did. I had a home birth. I was able to be supported by the Belmont birthing service. Okay. Yeah. Cause at the time I didn't know any of the private midwives in the area. And my dearest, dearest friend, Asha, she, she works for Belmont and I was, I didn't care where this woman was. I was, she was going to be my midwife. Yeah. And I, had him at 41 and 5? 41 and 6? Yep. At home, I think it was 13 hours from the first contraction to him coming out. And it was wild. It was just absolutely wild. It was at the birth. I can't even, it's so interesting because his birth taught me so much of how I practice now. So the first and foremost thing that has deeply, deeply impacted my practice is this. If you go over 42 weeks, like does it matter? No. I could not get over. I didn't think it would bother me being a midwife, but I could not get over this pressure that you need to have a baby before 42 weeks. Otherwise all of your plans are gone. And I didn't realize it until. 41 in like four days when my midwife came and saw me and I asked for another stretch and sweet. Because I was so scared. I was so scared of losing what I wanted. I hadn't let myself realize that I cared. I hadn't let myself realize that it actually was important to me that I did want this. I did want this home birth because before I was like, I don't mind. If I have to transfer in, it's okay. I don't mind. And I very quickly realized, I was like, no, I do care. I actually, this is important to me. Oh my goodness. This is all hangs in the balance. Anyway, my midwife, she was just like, go and have a swim. You need a full reset. Like you need to get out of this head of yours. You just need to let it go. And I was like, yeah, I do. Anyway, I don't swim. So I don't go in the ocean. I don't like the ocean. I hate the ocean. It was in the middle of June. And my midwife even asking me to do that, I was like, I hate you. But I knew she was right. So I went and jumped in the merry with the bards and literally felt my soul leave my body. And I think it was, oh, maybe five hours later, I started, I had my first contraction. Wow. And I truly think that it was because I could I just had this full reset and I just do set like you should send everybody to his baths now like I do. I go to the bath. You know, I this is like somewhat different, but I with Frankie was born last year. So I had Murphy during the very start of COVID and I had all these grand plans and then like, COVID happened and I'd like cancel everything. So for Frankie, I was like, okay, like I have this on my list, this on my list, this on my list. And one of the things was to go and float like in the pods, because I actually quite like that. When you know, not pregnant, but you know, I have finished work, I was like, almost 38 weeks. I think, or maybe I was 38 weeks, but I'd like booked in and it said like online that it was safe during pregnancy or like they were happy to accept it in pregnancy. I was like, it'll be fine. And I go there and they fucking would not let me into the pod. Why? She said, but what if your waters break? And I was like, what if you have, I don't know how to deliver a baby. And I was like, you think that. I'm coming here for my 45 minute float. I'm gonna go into labor and also have the baby in that period of time. And you're worried about who's going to deliver it. Like I was outraged. I was outraged, but like I still like that must feel so nice to be like in warm water, like just floating on your back. Just feeling divine. Got it. Amazing. Oh. Yeah. I would have raged. Yeah, I was. I was getting a piece of paper and I was signing away and pieces get delivered mate, not babies. Yeah. Yeah. Why? Yeah. But you know, that also just reaffirmed to me that whether this lady or whoever had children or not, she clearly didn't understand physiological birth because somebody with an understanding of physiological birth, would not have that, you know, and it was kind of like, well, um, you know, okay, my, so what if my waters break? What if somebody is on their period and like, there's blood in the water, like, what are you going to do then? You're not going to like screen everybody and be like, make sure you don't start your period whilst in your, in the pod. Hey, like, and if there was, and if you, and if there was something like that, then like, I presume that there's a, process to clean it or whatever, like, like waters are, you know, urine clear, like, you know, and urine is sterile. So annoying. Anyway, anyway, that just reminded me, but I just remember being like, yeah, I really, number one, want to make every woman in Australia aware that home birth exists. But number two, like, also share stories about how physiological labor and birth can be because it's, I mean, it tells a very beautiful story, but it's never as dramatic as, you know, hospital stories. Like, um, I think that there's, there's such a, it blows my mind when I think about how I was after my, my home birth and I had a textbook. perfect home birth. Yeah. Um in my eyes I did anyway and um I still couldn't get over the enormity of that experience. Like it it rattled me to my core and it was so intense and it was so profound that I needed time to like come back and talk about it again and again and again. Like it was it was so intense and I'm like, when I think about how overwhelmingly big that process was for me and it all went well. Yeah. What on earth? can happen to a woman and their experience when it goes well in hospital. Because we all know if you've ever experienced hospital, like I had a woman contact me once, and this is an example of quotation mark well, well worth, is she said she was so deeply traumatized from how her previous experience was. And when I sat down, I said, oh, tell me what... about it was so in so traumatizing. Tell me, talk to me about it. Tell me your story. And like everything she said, I'm like, oh my goodness, this is what any midwife would be like, oh, this is going well. We're perfect. This is wonderful. But to her it was true. Yeah. And when I read through her notes, it was so like a balloon taken out, water's broken, spontaneous labor commenced. Yeah. contractions, woman, a Copic, request analgesia, birthed, no issues post birth down to the ward. And I was like, Yeah. And like, this is the thing is that, yeah, like, Birth is intense, birth is overwhelming. Birth is like cleat and utter cracking and total demolishing of your entire identity as you know it. Because you have to make way for this new person. Like every single baby, it's the exact same process. And if you're not held in that space or you're not ready for that, then you got like oh I don't know where I'm even going with this it's it's one of the biggest things is that Birth at home, I think, allows you to feel safe if that is your safe space. So my biggest philosophy is birth where you feel safest because not everyone perceives safety in the same way. So some of my clients are like, absolutely no way am I having this baby at home? And I'm like, cool, no worries, not an issue. Like where do you feel safe? Because that's where you're going to have your physiological change. where you're going to have the cascade of hormones because you feel safe. We all know that it stems from that. And for me personally, it was at home. But it doesn't take away from how intense the process is. I think that we can get so caught up in this idea of like, I've got to have this perfect induction or this perfect seizure or this perfect home birth. But the reality is that if we're not... prepared and held and we haven't unpacked all we need to unpack ready for this birth, then that is where we're going to have a really, really interesting postpartum. It doesn't mean it's gonna be bad, it just means that it's going to be different to what we expected. And I think that's inevitable anyway. Yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, like I definitely... Like our home birth is not going to solve all your problems. Like at the end of the day, at the end of the day, like postpartum, it comes with its own unique challenges. Being a parent, also unique challenges. And I just, I constantly reflect back onto, you know, all of the women past and all of the women in the future that have to approach those challenges with the addition of, you know, a birth experience that they weren't expecting that took them off guard that made them, you know, how many women actually know what the environment of hospital to birth in is like? Like, you know, you have an idea of yes, if I go to the emergency department, I hope to hell I am safe, you know, but I've not spent a lot of time in an emergency department. So, you know, I don't know. But like similar with like the maternity ward, like. You hope that if you know there's doctors and midwives and you know all of the people there and like, yeah, I think a lot of women are caught off guard with how the system actually is. But I do totally agree that yeah, birth where you feel safe. Home birth is not for everyone. No one is saying that all women should birth at home. Absolutely no one is saying that. I've never heard that. I'll never speak that. But everyone should know that they can if they want to. Yeah. And this is where it's like your podcast is fantastic because you're opening up every single facet that is a possibility. Like I met a woman not long ago and she was like, I don't want any scans. I don't want any ultrasounds. I don't even want any antenatal appointments. I just want you here for the birth. And I was like, oh, yeah. Do you want a free birth? Yeah. Like you want a wild, like I'm, I'm. feel like I'm not the right person for you. Like it was really beautiful to be like, I respect completely what it is that you need and I want you to achieve that. My deepest joy is meeting and learning and like getting to know my clients. So the idea of not knowing you and then stepping into your birth makes me really uncomfortable because I want to know exactly who you are so I know when you're okay. And I know that when you're transitioning versus when you say that there is something wrong and you need me to do something, my biggest thing is that my role as the midwife is to educate and inform you. And it is your role and your job to choose your options from those things. So it is not my job to choose for you. I refuse to choose for you. You have to own your role as the mother of this child to decide what is right. for you and I can guarantee you every single woman is like, oh, why? No, I trust you. You make the right decision. I know I don't mind and I always have to turn around and go, I'm really sorry, but I can't make this choice for you. And it starts then like our first ever appointment of being like, okay, these are your options. What do you want to do? Yeah. And eventually it turns into this confidence of like, no, I know what I need. I know I trust my body. I trust I know what I need. It's amazing to watch. Like I can't, oh, it's my favorite thing to watch them go from this fear. I don't want to make the wrong choice to actually fostering self -trust to then go, Hey, I need you to do this for me because this is what I need. And I'm like, whatever you want. I love it. Yeah, absolutely. You helping like women understand the power that they have. Fostering self -trust. I don't think it can be said any better. That's what Rachel Reid says. She's like, it is our job to foster self-trust because like, oh, there's the most, I always believed that like, you know, when I was a very junior midwife and especially when I was in the home birth community, that, ah, there must've been something that happened that was wrong or someone messed up or there's got to be something that, you know, births can't always end in like a, if a birth ends in a Caesarian or an aphorseps, there's something that's gone wrong. And one of my dearest, most loyal, incredible friends who is also a midwife. And she ended up having an emergency Caesar. And she wrote about it. afterwards. And what she wrote and her experience in like learning about it from there, completely changed my entire perspective. Yeah, wow. It changed everything for me. But essentially, she turned around and she was kind of like, How can I do this justice? Essentially that some women... we have the birth we need to have in order to learn what we need to learn to mother that child. And at the time, we don't know that because it might be completely against what we planned or what we wanted. And we're like, why, why would this happen? Like, why? And... there's always gifts in every single labor and it's whether or not we have the tools and the support to be able to unpack each labor and learn exactly what we do need to learn. And I learned so much from my labor. Like I truly learned that I was not ready to let go of my maiden self, like the carefree travel around the world, like do whatever the heck I wanted. Even though I deeply wanted to be a mother, it came up. so fiercely in my labor. And I literally felt like I had these two entities, like two me's, and this little maiden me just throwing an absolute tantrum, being like, no, I'm not ready to go. I don't want to do this. This is ridiculous. No, I'm not ready. I don't want to go. Like, just like absolute despair and like anger, so much anger. Yeah. just deep, deep sadness. And then this mother perspective was just like, it's okay. I'll wait. Take your time. I'm here. It's all good. Just take your time. Yeah. When you're, when you're ready. I'm here. Yeah. And then I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it. It was as soon as I was fully dilated, it was like everything shifted and it was like the maiden was finally ready to say, okay, I'm ready to go. Yeah. And then. the mother part of me stepped in. Yeah. And the everything changed, like everything changed. The sensation, the perspective, the sounds. Yeah, wow. The environment, it was quiet and it was purposeful and dark. Yeah. And it was amazing, like it was absolutely amazing. But I learnt that I wasn't I had to let go. I thought it was surrender for a long time. I thought I needed to surrender, but it wasn't. I needed to let go of my maiden. I needed to let go of that facet of myself and say goodbye, essentially. And it took me a long time to say goodbye. I think it took me about six weeks after his birth to really be okay with saying goodbye. And that's what I mean. You can have this perfect textbook home birth, but... Really, our births are our teachers and that is what I am so passionate about. Yeah, yeah. That's... Our births are our teachers. I really, really love that. Yeah, they are. And that is all the work of Jane Hardwick-Collings. If anyone is interested, if that calls to them, go and look at Jane Hardwick-Collings. Her work is ridiculous. Because you do every... She believes in the red thread. So when you look at... these reoccurring themes that keep presenting. Yeah. It's it's because we haven't learnt something and it always comes up. Yeah, I actually have seen, I think, like a picture of like some like a literal red thread and then somebody was like, that's my red thread. Like, what if I what if I got to learn? I've seen that. So maybe on her Instagram or something. Her work's incredible. There's so many amazing people in the birth world. Yeah. But yeah, so yeah. Thank you so, so much. What an amazing conversation. I feel like we've like talked about so many different things. I'm so, so grateful. You're so welcome. Is there anything, any last things that you wanted to say or? I guess like, like you said that, you know, Home birth is something that needs to be aware, like for people as an option. I think private midwifery is so, such a beautiful, deeply loving, nurturing option for women and families. And I think that the more we know about it, the more normal it will become. Because in New Zealand, that is the normal. It's not common for you to go to a hospital and have a baby and just meet a - and a midwife, it's actually the norm to have a private midwife. And my goal is to make it as accessible and as available to every single family and to try and spread the word, be like, this is an option for you. Like anywhere that you want to birth, if it's at home, if it's in hospital, if it's an elective seizure, if it's a home birth, whatever it is, contact your private midwife. area and go and meet all of them. There are so, there's so many popping up now and it's amazing. And like Emily Jackson always talks about, you know, there's enough people in the world that everyone's going to keep having sex. Everyone's going to keep having babies. We're never too short of work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. All we need to do is let people know that it's an option and therefore midwives will have enough work. And yeah, I think that. I guess the last thing I guess for us, yeah, contact and look up private midwives in your area because meet all of them and find the one that's right for you. Find the one that you feel safe with and that's all you need. Doesn't matter if you don't want to have home birth, there's going to be a midwife for you if that's what you want. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so, so much, Anika. I really appreciate all of that you've talked about.