Episode 32 --- what a feel good episode! Was so great to chat with Britt from Perth who had homebirths with all 4 of her babies, and with all 4 she had the same midwife as a part fo her care! We chat all things physiological birth and how although all born at home, they were all individual birth experiences.
A great episode for anyone planning a homebirth!
Links to resources:
CHAPTERS
00:00
Introduction and Background
10:49
The Importance of a Supportive Birth Team
29:59
Positive Postpartum Experiences
38:45
The Unpredictability of Birth
55:47
Unique Birth Experiences
01:05:01
Expectations vs. Reality
01:15:27
Empowering Women and Trusting Your Body
Episode 32 --- what a feel good episode! Was so great to chat with Britt from Perth who had homebirths with all 4 of her babies, and with all 4 she had the same midwife as a part fo her care! We chat all things physiological birth and how although all born at home, they were all individual birth experiences.
A great episode for anyone planning a homebirth!
Links to resources:
CHAPTERS
00:00
Introduction and Background
10:49
The Importance of a Supportive Birth Team
29:59
Positive Postpartum Experiences
38:45
The Unpredictability of Birth
55:47
Unique Birth Experiences
01:05:01
Expectations vs. Reality
01:15:27
Empowering Women and Trusting Your Body
You're listening to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I recorded this episode on unceded Wurundjeri land in Nam, Melbourne, Australia, where Aboriginal peoples had been birthing at home on country for thousands of years prior to the British invasion. They are the original storytellers. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast or how I can support you in achieving your home birth, be sure to check out my Instagram at birthingathome.com. underscore a podcast. This is episode 32 shared by Britt from Perth, a local doula and mom of four babies, all born at home. Britt shares how she found home birth and her four individual and amazing journeys. This is also a bit of a funny episode and we laugh quite a bit. So if you're looking for a lighthearted, feel good episode that exemplifies how epic you really are, this is it. If you're also thinking of home birthing, but not quite sure where to start, check out my website, www .birthingathome.com .au for details on a home birth planning session with me. Now enjoy this funny and brilliant episode. Welcome Britt to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Thank you, lovely to be here. Thank you. Do you want to start off by telling the listeners a little bit about who you are, where you're from, what you do for work and whatever you want? Sure. Um, so I, um, I guess always comes first. I'm a mom. I'm a mom of four. So my eldest is, uh, just turned 11 in December. And so we're heading into a high school phase with her. And then I have a little toddler at home who's two. So he was born in the COVID era. He was my COVID baby. Um, and then a couple of boys in the middle there. So yeah, um, during COVID and after having my last baby. I decided to do, or sort of while I was pregnant, I decided to do my doula training to be, yeah, a doula. I think I knew I was finished having babies. So it was time. It had been like a long time coming. So yeah, that's what I do for work now. So I don't have to have my own babies. I can go and get my oxytocin filled somewhere else. Nice. And you're in Perth, hey? I am. Yeah. So in Perth, born and bred. Yeah. Yeah. Local. Yeah. Um, my first question is how did you know that you were done having babies? Oh yeah. I probably shouldn't have said that. Does one ever know? Because that's what I, I feel like if you listen to maybe 10 episodes ago, I was like, no, no more babies. But now I have all of these ideas. I'm like, well, I could do this and I could do that. And. You know, I didn't know this before and just listening to birth stories, so many of them, I'm just like, well, I feel like I've got to test it out now. Like, it's not enough. It's addictive. It's addictive. Sometimes I just wish I could just go through birth actually, because I watch it and it's just like so epic. And I'm like, I remember that feeling and like having a newborn and yeah, I guess that's yeah. But I think four is probably a good quota for me. A good quota. Oh, that's brilliant. And so all four of your babies were born at home. They were. They were all home babies, all born in different houses as well. So yeah, we're spreading the love all around Perth. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, that's pretty amazing. Like how did you, how did you come across home birth? Um, well, it's a funny one. I was, I would have never thought I would be the home birth type and not that I was really, I mean, to put this in context, I was 20, like just turned 22 when I found out I was pregnant with my first, she was a surprise baby and we'd just moved into state. So everything was new. Like I'd never even thought about kids. It was like so far down the track for us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Yeah, so it had never entered my mind. Like I knew home birth was a thing, I think, because relatives on my husband's side had had home births in the past. But older people. Yeah. So my mother -in -law's sister had all her babies at home, maybe bar one, and had wonderful experiences. But, you know, like when you're 21. 22, you're not chatting to people about how their births were going. Especially like aunties. Yeah. Like goodness me, you're like not even talking about vaginas, like let alone sex or any of that, like let alone childbirth. Yeah. It's so true. It's so true. So yeah, no, I had not really entered my mind. But then I guess when you become pregnant, it's my personality type to just. I'm like an information person and I need research and I need this and that. And I started reading and actually my husband's cousin had just had a wonderful home birth with her baby. And I had never met anyone that had had a home birth like in our sort of generation. And, but she had told me how amazing her experience was and it was just opposite to everything else I'd ever heard up until then, including like my mom's births, my... like all of my family have not been exposed to this world at all. Yeah. Yeah. So after hearing that, I thought, oh, just that sounds crazy. That's not like, that's wild. Yeah. But I'll just have a little look at the stats, Shella. Anyway, so into the rabbit hole, she fell. Yeah. Yeah. So deep. Britain Wonderland. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Wonderland was great. Was there anything in particular that you read or engaged with that you remember you were like, oh wow, like, I'm really going to do this? You know what, I should have actually looked this up before I... No, that's all right. But there was a beautiful book that was written by a chiropractor that she lent me. And which is sort of random, I guess, but it was all about birth and about babies and about possible interventions in hospital and rates of home birth safety and you know, all that sort of one like very, I don't know, my mind at the time I was working in a private hospital myself in admin. So I was very like, I need the stats and the numbers and the things. It laid it out in a really common sense way. And I was, that was, that was it. Yeah. I remember it was a, it was a purple book, if that helps. Okay. I shall Google purple birth books. Oh, I'm sure I'm pretty resourceful. I'm sure I'll find it. Um, and did you seek out like a private midwife or, cause obviously Perth now has the publicly funded home birth program, but I'm not sure like back then if that was. Yeah. Yeah, so it was the issue was that we had lived on the Gold Coast for up until about 28 weeks. And I had planning to like after all this reading, I was like, I don't, you know, I don't know where to go from here over here. I'm away from home. I don't know, like anyone local that could never help me navigate this. So I was going to a hospital that had birth pools and I thought in my mind would be like quite low intervention. That was sort of my plan. The local public hospital. It sounded great, you know, to young me back then. And then moving across here to Perth and seeing where I could possibly birth, like just flipping straight into the same public system over here. There was just a switch in my mind, like, this is my opportunity. Like I can apply for something different. I can see what else is out there and I can just ask the questions. And King Eddie's had a, so it's like a big maternity maternity hospital over here. Yeah. Had had, has like an external birthing center. So it's outside of the hospital and it's in like, it looks like a little old house sort of thing outside of the hospital. And so that was my plan to go there. And then as time goes on, I was sort of like, Oh, maybe. Maybe I should just like, that's a pain. Like I'm just going to go there. We're really late in labor. That's going to be annoying to travel in the car. Only 10 minutes from the hospital. Maybe I'll just see if she'll do a home birth as well. Cause it was part of the CMP, like the community midwives program. And so I thought I'll just interview and I'll just see if I, you know, like I like the midwife that's going to offer this and I'll just say, cause it was free. You know, everything was free. So I was. Yeah, go for it. And so I did that I interviewed all the public sort of free freebies. And the issue was is that I had declined the majority of testing through pregnancy. So through my research, I had realized that I was going to get high risk flags if I tested positive. So I didn't do any testing at all through my pregnancy except for like baseline bloods. And Yeah, stuff like that, like HCG and stuff like that in early pregnancy. But I didn't do the diabetes test. And that at the time was a box that had to be ticked if you wanted to be on the CMP. And so not that they had kicked me off yet, but they hadn't fully accepted me into the program. And we were living at my in -laws house as well. So I was potentially home birthing in my in -laws house. And that was sort of the plan. Yeah, there was like a housing boom over here at the time. So we had nowhere to live. Baby was due like we're heading into 30 weeks, 32 weeks, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a fun time. And I thought I'll just reach out to a private midwife because I'd read that if there's publicly funded midwives, there'll be private midwives in your area. I don't know where I found this information in a book. Yeah, yeah. In the purple book. I don't know, the purple book. Not to be confused with the other purple book that we all got in. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the and so I just contacted some beautiful midwives that just gone into private practice over here. One of them had just left the CMP. And so yeah, they're amazing. I love them. And I said to them, look, I've declined all of this. What do you think? You've just come out of CMP. Are they going to let me do this? And she was like, you're going to get to 36 weeks and they're going to say, Oh, sorry, we didn't realize you declined all this. You have to birth in hospital now. So then birth center and my home birth would have got taken away. Yeah. Yeah. So based on nothing, just that you had declined. Declined a test. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not measuring. anything else or looking at me as a human or seeing if I'm healthy and happy and like I'm 22. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's so ridiculous. Yeah. So sort of, I got sort of mad then and yeah, and I was like, yeah, Peter and Vanessa, please take me on, please. I begged them and because it was brilliant. They'd just come out of, you know, like just come into private practice. So they had openings and yeah. So they took me on really late in pregnancy, brilliant women, and best decision ever made. Like I look back at that and I think, I'm so glad I made that phone call. I was so nervous, but yeah. Yeah. And so like I've heard a few stories lately where it's just as almost like, well, not by chance, cause you know, you put yourself into, you know, I guess receiving those possibilities, but like still, you know, one small kind of, you know, decision, like, yeah, I will just try the birth center, whatever, that's my first baby. But your birth could have gone in a completely different other direction. And like the on -floor effect of that, you know, you then went on to have three more babies at home. Like, it just, yeah, it could be so, so different. But I think that's, yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think sometimes you just stumble upon these things that you can just block out the rest of it because you're like, this is it. This is absolutely it aligns with everything. All of my values. It's like speaking to me in ways that all the rest isn't. Yeah, you can like you can just you can you can have like this epic tunnel vision and then yeah, it's great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look out the haters. Exactly. And it was, it was like that, yeah. Yeah. Did you end up having the same midwife or midwives for your next three births? Yeah, pretty much. I think one, so they swapped primary. So one was always like primary, midwife, one backup and swapped primary to the other way. And then I had that same primary because the backup midwife had her own baby. So, but I had Vanessa, Vanessa was present for all, all four of my babies and she lives down the road. So I get to see her like now that I'm in the birth worker world, I get to see her all the time, which is brilliant. Oh, that's so cool. That's amazing. Um, I think it's really cool, you know, that can continue continuity or continuity or whatever. Um, it's really cool cause I'm doing the birth attendant training with Rhea Dempsey. And she's amazing in herself, but you know, the first weekend we spent sharing all of our birth stories. And so Ria is one of the first to go. And it was just so incredible because like she's also, you know, she's delivered like all of her grandchildren. I mean, she hasn't delivered, but she supported her grandchildren's babies to all be born at home and just say, imagine. Like, I can't believe there actually has to be like research on this because I feel like it's like common sense. Would you rather someone that you connect with that you've known for ages that's been through things with you? Um, or would you rather like this person over here who you just met five seconds ago that you know nothing about? No, exactly. Like, that just doesn't make sense to me. Of course there's, ah. But that's so, so cool. So what is your eldest's name? So her name is Daisy. She's our only, our only girl. Yes. The poor thing. She's a big sister. And so what was like the birth experience like, you know, first time, first home birth in your in -laws house. Well, lucky we found a house when I was 37 weeks. The stars align. It was just meant to be. And it was the tiniest little house and we had boxes everywhere that I sort of, I sort of put tablecloths over, as in like we had lots of tables everywhere. Yes. To make it feel, I was like, how can I, how can I nest really quickly when you've moved? Instant nests. Soft finishings everywhere. Yeah, good for that. It looks way better in pictures, I can imagine as well. You know, they look like very trendy. And so in the new place, yeah, do you want to walk us through Daisy's birth? Yeah, sure, sure. So she was due just before Christmas Day on about the 22nd, I think. I don't know. I can't remember. But anyway, we had a wedding on that day. And so we went to the wedding. I feel like this is her story because she's so musical now. And I feel like it's all the dancing that was done through. So we were like, yes, let's dance this baby out. Yeah. Didn't happen obviously. And I was so glad it wasn't because we'd just moved and gone through such a hectic time, had some rest. And then Christmas day, we went down for a swim down at the local beach here, Trigg. And it was just such an epic day. Like the sun was gorgeous and I could just float like this, like huge bum. Like it was just the best morning ever. And I had totally let go of all my, when is she gonna come things, because it was like, do we bring a newborn to the wedding? Do we, you know, like it was all that running through your head of like, is she gonna come early? And my mom had had. early babies. I was six weeks early and my brother was four weeks early. So yeah, I think I expected her to be early that maybe that was just a gestation thing, but no. So I think I just let go of everything and I was like, just enjoy being pregnant finally. Yeah. Yeah. So I had a beautiful morning, came home, not no signs of labor or anything. And I just had like, we ate a bit of lunch and then I just had this urge that I needed to pee and I was like, oh yeah, like just a normal urge, nothing weird. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and went to the toilet and I felt like a, almost like a rubber band snap and my waters broke while I was sitting on the toilet. And so I knew because of the sound that that's what it was, even though it's like first experience, I was like, that can't be anything else but that. Yeah. And so you remember like, so. nothing had happened before. It's that your body was like, I need to go do a wee. Yeah. And then you've gone to do that. And then that's freaky. The body is so like, like, whoa. It was really polite though, because I had taken a towel everywhere with me in case, you know how you do that in such a silly way. You take a towel everywhere or just in case my water's break like it's gonna. Yeah. Because what are you gonna do? Like in the supermarket? Oh. My water's just broke. I mean, I brought my towel, but let me just clean this up. Yeah. As if. I know what a ridiculous, I look back now and I was like, why? It brought you comfort. Anyway, so my body just knew it was going to happen, apparently. Off we went. And then, and then that was it, obviously. Like I didn't know, there was no labor or anything. There was, I mean, not obviously, because I feel like in movies I was like, I'm going into labor, this is so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, we just chilled and watched movies and I let Peter know that I thought it was my waters breaking and yeah, she was just like, check if it's clear. It was clear, it was all fine. Yeah. Which I already knew, I was just such a read -a -holic, like I felt like I was just sort of. helping you do learn yourself already. I was years ago. Yeah. But yeah, so we just chilled all afternoon and just hung out and we were obviously so excited. Like Jordi was only 24 and we were just like this young, like I look back at how we were, we were so not serious. Like we were like, let's watch the funniest movie we can think of. Can't remember what we watched. I think it was bridesmaids. Yeah. Oh, that's brilliant. Um, yeah, so I don't think I actually felt any proper surges until five in the evening. So it was probably about five hours after. Yeah. And they sort of, they were pretty easy period pain type situation. Um, and then probably about seven, they sort of started ramping up and I was, um, in our bedroom and I'd set up like a little pillow nest. which I just love a pillow nest for birth. And I was just sort of rocking in there and Jordy was great. He was just, I don't know, bringing me water. I don't even remember what he did. It was a long time ago. Yeah, that's all right. But he was brilliant. Yeah, well, that's how you remember it. And that's what's important. And he was good, very attentive, I'm sure. I would have known if he wasn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd remember that. I would, I totally would. Um, and so I think we called the midwives. It would have been, I remember it was dark when they got there. So I reckon about eight o 'clock. Yes. Um, and I was still laboring in the bedroom, like coping really well, just enjoying the ride of it. And, um, if they set up the birth pool, filled it up, all that sort of thing. My mom came and yeah, I just got in the pool. And I remember feeling like a big pressure when I was up on the bed. And I remember saying like, I feel like, I remember feeling like a bit grunty and a bit, you know, like animal. And I was like, I just feel like a bit, like a lot of pressure down there. And then as soon as I got into the pool, oh my goodness, it was just like. of like 50 % of the pressure and the pain and just everything just released. And I felt like I could just like truly relax. Like water is just our happy place. Yeah, it was brilliant. I loved that birth pool so much. I still can like remember the feeling. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. And like, did you have, I guess we didn't really talk about, you know, going into having your first home birth. I think you've done a lot of reading and stuff, but do you remember having any particular fears or worries or concerns? I guess, you know, psychosocially, like in terms of housing and stuff, you probably did. But in terms of birth itself, did you or your partner have any, like, fears? Do you remember? You know what? This probably is weird to say, but I don't think I did. I didn't really. Yeah, amazing. No, I had all that other stress going on. So maybe it distracted me from overthinking things. I don't know. Yeah. But I was always just adamant that like my body was meant to do this. And this is it's just normal. Like it's just boring and normal. It's just birth. Like it's not going for a poo. It's not even that big a deal. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I posted. Sorry, I've just I've just interrupted Daisy's story, but it just reminded me of. You know, I saw these two videos the other day of a giraffe giving birth and like, I think a rhino giving birth. And it was such a non event. Yeah. It was so incredible and amazing. But also you could tell that like, it was just, just another day as if they'd done a poo. Yeah. Just a non issue. Yeah. And that's, yeah, that's, yeah. I mean, I would hope people would notice if I had like, you know, given birth, but like, I want to feel that, but you know, in so many ways, it should just be a non -event. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the thing. I think there's so much stress put into it because of outside sources. And if we just let go of all of that and can sort of channel into like, it's just a baby. Like people have been doing this forever, like since the beginning. Forever. Literally since the beginning. It's not that big a deal. Like, yeah. It like, I'm telling you now kids when they get older, that's the big deal. Don't tell me that. You're meant to tell me it gets better and easier. There's a reason I want to just give birth all the time. Okay. Nobody's asking to, you know, have older children or teenagers, I guess. Hey. And so where's Daisy board in the pool? She was, she was, yeah. So I think the only part of that whole birth that I found challenging, like if I look back through all the births, they all have their moments. But for hers, I think the ring of fire was the bit that I was surprised by because I think you can read about it. You can sort of expect a certain feeling, but I remember it just being like, what the heck is this? And looking at my midwife like dead in the eye, like, why? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're so close. So close. Yeah. Like, you know, having had four babies, did you feel the ring of fire with all four babies? I did. I did. But I think because I were probably a couple of them and one maybe not, which I can tell you about later. But yeah, I think. The thing with, I don't know what it was. I just couldn't release into it. It was the one part of the birth that I couldn't relax into. Like I could feel myself running from it. If that makes sense. Like I felt like every other part of labor I could lean into and get through it and rest at the end. But this was just so, it was so intense and it was just a feeling I'd never felt before. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I just couldn't, I couldn't relax. And I feel like that probably made it worse because I couldn't. Yeah. Yeah, sink into it. Yeah. But the midwives, like they were amazing. They were just like, it's okay. It's supposed to feel like this. It's normal. Just do your, just keep breathing and just try and relax into it. It's normal. And I just remember saying, I'm tearing. I must be tearing. And they're going, it doesn't mean you're tearing. Just relax into it. It's meant to happen. Like it's meant to stretch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that helped. But yeah, that was wild. Yeah, a very intense feeling. And what was your postpartum like with Daisy? It was good. Like as far as I think first baby postpartum goes, I think it's always a wild ride. But absolutely. Yeah, like breastfeeding. I had a few hiccups with sore nipples and things like that. But like I think my midwives were just so amazing and they were just, I just trusted them and with they... actually barely gave any advice or anything. They were just very supportive of me and making sure that I was getting enough rest and nourishment and making sure that for like us as a family unit that that was being prioritized. So, yeah. So I think that helped. Yeah. And it was Christmas time. So my husband had like a month off work. So I feel like I had it pretty easy because. Yeah. Yeah. And we have brilliant, brilliant family. Like both sides are just epic with the meal delivery and the, you know, pick up groceries on the way. I'll get you some nappies. I'll, you know, like just they're so wonderful on both sides. Just brilliant. So yeah, very, very lucky. Yeah. Very lucky. What does your husband do for work? So he's a drafty. So he's in an office. Yeah. Sorry. Drafty. Well, my kids would say he draws pictures on a computer. Oh, I understand that. I can connect with that. Okay. So like a draftsman. So he works just in the city. Yeah. Yeah. And it pretty much has. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get any, do you remember getting any sort of like negative remarks or negative feedback about the decision to home birth? Look, I think. Um, people know my - Without dobbing people in. Of course. Like, yes. I want to say yes. It was more of probably an attitude more than specific remarks because I think people were treading pretty carefully. I'm like a once I mean, I mean, like, you're not going to talk me out of it type person. And, um, I'll also stand up for myself. I'm, I'm pretty fine with that. So, um, so I think probably most people that know me. would just be like, okay, that's what you're doing. That's great because then you had three more. So that's the attitude you need. That's the confidence you need. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think having the family history of like aunties having home births, like it's an exposure that they'd had and been like, oh, okay. So like people do do it. It's not a, you know, and they turned out fine. That's a terrible saying. We think. We think. They're great. That's amazing. So what's the age gap? Like when did you have your second baby? So the age gap, so I had the second baby in 2015. And his name is Memphis. He, yeah, so just under three years. Is that four years or three years? Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just under three. And so after having that incredible experience with Daisy, was it then just always like not even a question of like, where are you going to be birthing? Yeah. It was like, I don't think I even told family I was pregnant before. Like it was the first phone call I made was to Peter and Vanessa to be like, just making sure you're not booked out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Did you do like, did you do much reflection on? you know, the pregnancy and labor and birth and choices that you made with Daisy, you know, in how you then approached the pregnancy and birth stuff with Memphis? Not really. Yeah, no. Terrible. No, I don't know. Like, I think I just loved it so much. Like, I just loved her birth so much. Yeah. Like, I just came out the other side feeling so epic that I was like, let's just redo that. Can we just do that? Yeah. Copy paste. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And is that how it happened? Yeah. No, because it was. No. Do tell. No. So you know what, with him, he was a bigger baby, which totally fine, like not much bigger, but he was bigger. And so in my head, I think this is what happened is that I went into a lot of what society would call false labor. Okay. But I call now. just part of labor and sometimes having subsequent babies. A variation. You have some early labor that stops and starts and that's totally fine. But I remember going into labor, like in my head into labor, every single Sunday for about three weeks in a row. And I don't know why it was the Sunday. I don't know if I had like I had George home and I was really relaxed. And so it was like just enough oxytocin to get labor started. Not quite enough. Not quite. And you know, you wake up on the Monday without a baby and you're sort of like, this is very annoying now. Yeah. Yeah. So on the third... Did you have like self doubt that kind of started to kick in with that? 100%. Yeah. And I wasn't 40 weeks. Like this is the ridiculous thing. You know, and hindsight is a hilarious thing because you look back and you think like, what's wrong with you? You weren't even, you weren't even like technically Jew yet. But I think I, you know, it was, I had a toddler who, you know, probably gets her personality from me. I won't confirm, but she's very sassy and like a three, like a nearly three year old and being heavily pregnant. I was done. Like I was just so done and ready for baby to come. And for Jordy to be home, I think that's what I wanted. I just wanted him on paternity leave. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Was he going to get a month off again? I think so. I actually can't remember what he took, but it's usually like at least two weeks to four weeks he would save his leave and he'd make sure he was home. Yeah, yeah. So that was brilliant. Amazing. Yeah. And how did the birth, you know, so once you go into labor, do you want to walk us through that? Yeah, so it was, I think for this birth, it was really a head game for me. And I think because of that every Sunday going into labor and, you know, like I was trying to chase that labor, like I was just wanting it to come so badly. and I was up on the ball at 11 p .m. You know, like, yes, I'm having contractions. This is so exciting. I can force nature. It's amazing what we think we can do. Yeah. And then on that third Sunday, I'd done exactly the same thing and I was up on the ball. And then, you know, you go to bed at 2 a.m. because you're like, okay, it's not going anywhere, obviously. I'm going to try and just have a sleep. And then you wake up again on the Monday. And on that Monday, I was adamant I was like, there's something wrong. Like, I don't know. And I, it was actually my due date, I think. And I was like, there's something wrong here. I like, I'm going into like, there's something happening here. I've been to the Cairo. I've done all the things. Why won't my baby come out? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I think I've got to send Daisy away. I think that's what's got to happen. Like, I feel like I just couldn't switch off. And I told Jordy to stay home and I'd been having like niggles every single night pretty much, but the Sunday night was another big night being up. And it was like, I just decided that you're coming out. I don't care. Like what's going on. Like, yeah, yeah, I'm done. Like we're done here and you're not playing ball. Yeah. It's in the game. Yeah. You're messing with me already. You're not even out yet. Yeah. So true. So true. So that's what I did. I sent everyone away. But it also meant that my mum couldn't be at my birth because my daughter had gone with her. And so that's one thing about the birth that I was really sad about. I really missed her presence. And even though, like she's super helpful and practically helpful at the time, but even just having her like female presence in the room, I didn't realise that I would miss it. I really didn't realise how much it had given to me in the first birth, just having that sort of. generational support, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, off track, sorry. No, I don't think we talked about that. So your mom was there for the birth of Daisy. She was, yeah. Yeah, she was, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And so had she ever, yeah, had she ever seen a home birth before? Never. Yeah. So she'd had both of, like me and my brother, both in hospital. And we were both really early. So I think it was, the birth was probably not like the focal point of where the anxiety went around birth. It was more like a baby being early and navigating that whole thing. I think, especially with me, I would, yeah. There was some struggles there. Yeah. So I think that was probably more so than anything else, like as long as baby's okay after, you know. But for her, she had two vaginal births, which she'll love me telling. on a podcast. Everybody that listens. But I do think that's important because like she had always put it in me that like, well, you just give birth. Like it's not. And yeah, you know, you can shout and scream and it's painful and blah, blah. But it was never like, it's not impossible. Like I think that is a massive part of my thinking is that was just what you do. You just give birth. Like it's not. Yeah. So I do think it stems from that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so who was going to be at the birth of Memphis? So it was just going to be Jordan this time. Yeah. Well, yeah. And I was, I was waiting to see if Daisy and mom could both be there as well. Like I was totally fine with her being there, but I just, when it kept going on like this, I just thought maybe that's my mental block. I don't know. Maybe I feel so like attached to her that I feel like I can't let her go. Which I'd read about that happening and heard stories of women. having to just send their kids away for a couple of hours and to get them into labor sort of thing. It's like a mental thing. Yeah. Yeah. Which yeah. And then I, we literally walked around our whole suburb that whole day because I was like, it's happening. You're coming out. I'm done. I'm gonna make it happen. Yeah. Which actually was really lovely because we never got to go for walks by ourselves. Yeah. It was probably like the first and last time that that's ever happened. And so did that work? Did that? It worked. It did work. Wow. Was it any particular type of walking? You know how they like talk about the mile circuit or was it just like regular walking? Just, I just kept going. Pregnant lady walking. I didn't do. I'd never heard of that kind of stuff back then. So yeah, I just was like, I'm going to walk the baby out because I was having surges, but they were just so mild. And I was like, nah, we're going to kick this thing off. But this is my son's personality. So I do feel like he needs a good kick to get moving sometimes, you know, now I see it. It's all in hindsight. Yeah, that's amazing. And so was the like, however you define labor, was that longer or shorter than Daisy? I think probably longer in like the early labor stages, because with Daisy, I didn't really get that early labor. I sort of had water's break and then nothing and then just a very small amount. Whereas with him, I did have early labor for probably a whole day, really. Yeah. Yeah. But he's just such a gentle soul. Like I feel like he was just going gentle on me. Maybe. That's another way to put it. Yeah. Such a different perspective. What was the birth like with Memphis then? Um, so yeah, we were, I'd made my little pillow nest and the midwives sort of came. Yeah. Times I don't know, but it was dark by the time we came there and we, I was laboring sort of on my bed and our room was big enough to have the pool in the bedroom this time, which was awesome. So I could sort of, you know, to and fro. Um, and I remember getting in the pool and then I think they got there around then. So I must have been fairly. I usually only got in the pool once I was pretty like ready. It was like a last, I always used it as like a last resort, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they got there and then, yeah, I don't think anything was massively different with his labor. I feel like I had a little bit more back labor with him than with Daisy, which I really actually enjoyed her labor. Like I didn't feel any back labor. It was just surges and I felt. like pretty, yeah, just, I actually enjoyed it, which is really strange to say, but like it was painful and overwhelming, but I just, yeah, I just sort of rode through it. Whereas with Memphis, I did get that sort of the back labor, which I then had again with one of my other kids. So I don't know what his positioning was like, whether that, you know, played a part or whatever, but. But it was still fine. The water helped so much. And I, and I sort of knew what to expect this time that I could have sensations I'd never felt before and was much more accepting of it. Yeah. So yeah, we pushed him out. We pushed him out. We didn't push him out. I pushed him. Just you. Yeah. Don't give anyone else credit. Why do we do that? Yeah. It's so, I was, I was sort of Facebook group today. Like people asking about. obstetricians and stuff. And people saying, oh yeah, so and so delivered me. Like, but like, they were talking about like the babe, like her baby, like they delivered, they delivered me off the baby. Like that's how she had written it. Yeah, she birthed the baby. That's okay. She'd like given birth with obstetrician there. And then that's how she was like, perceiving it that like, if it, what, like, like you delivered the package, like the postman delivered the package. Like that's, and I was just like, that is such a strange way to put it. But you birthed that baby. I pushed the baby up. I'm so sorry. Do you want me to get my dog? That's okay. Come here Luna. She's, she's very untrained. A wild dog. Yeah, the smallest wild dog ever. Do you remember the Ring of Fire with Memphis? We already talked about that, I know, but just remind me. Yeah. Yeah. So I do remember and I remember it was just so much easier because I felt like I knew it was fine. It didn't mean I was tearing. Like I hadn't had any tears with days other than some little grazes. And she'd actually come out with a nuchal hand. So to not have any tears or anything, I think was pretty, like pretty good. Yeah. So, yeah. So I didn't have that fear anymore of that just because of this feeling. It doesn't mean anything's sort of happening. Yeah. So that was fine. And he actually came out in his sack still all the way to his shoulders. So he had this like beautiful helmet of like waters all around him as he was coming out. It just broke. Yeah. Which was, which made sense, I think, because there was a lot less pressure with him. Like it wasn't like when I was comparing it to how... Daisy had had her waters sort of empty out a little bit. And I felt like there was pressure really early on with her. Whereas with Memphis, there wasn't that pressure. It was sort of like only right at the end there. Yeah. Yeah. So I did feel the difference there. Yeah. And what was, so when did Daisy come back? So Daisy, so he was born at about 11 .30, I think, in the evening. Like in the middle of the night. Yeah. And she just, she came back in the morning. So she stayed at my mom's house and yeah. Oh, that's still nice though. So then you like, it's such a catch 22, like you want to give as much attention to, you know, them as an individual, but like, you know, you've also got like these other individual, it's like an integral part of your family. Yeah, I know. It's a juggle, isn't it? And there's no wrong or right decision. I think it's just. You just do what you got to do at the time. Yeah. That's just how it is. Yeah. What was postpartum like with Memphis? Yeah, really good. He was such a chilled baby. Like on it, like it just is his personality. Like he fed like a champ, slept like a champ. Well, yeah, he was just, yeah, it was, it was a really good postpartum. Like I don't think I had any, he was around the four kilo mark. I actually can't remember what he was, but he was like, for me, I'm quite a small person. Um, and so he's my hubby. And so that felt, he felt like he came out looking like a toddler to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which was, which also really easy when you've got a three year old who wants to carry you around as well. Yeah. Yeah. Sturdy baby. Yeah. I got to feel him strong. So true. That's what I say about Frankie as well. Frankie had to be a bit bigger. So, you know, Murphy could rough him up a little bit. Yeah. Tolerate, tolerate the sibling. Yeah. Tolerate. Yeah. Yeah. And so then what is baby number three's name? So that's Knox. He's our baby number three. Yeah. And what's the age gap between Memphis and Knox? Pretty well two years, pretty much right on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he was a surprise. Well, we had wanted to have three, but we hadn't planned to have another one just yet. I think we really liked that age gap that we'd had with Daisy. Yeah. you know, like I feel like she was out of nappies and you know, you can sort of have a conversation a little bit more and understand and she was happy to sort of spend time with grandparents a bit more than a younger one, I guess. Yeah. So yeah, so he was sort of a surprise, but we'd always wanted more babies, more baby. And, and yeah, so he, yeah, pregnancy, like all my pregnancies have been so great. I love being pregnant, which, You know, I have family members that have terrible pregnancies and I find it hard to say that too publicly. Yeah. Because I absolutely adore being pregnant. Like I love every second of it. I just, I feel healthy. Like there's just something about it that yeah, I just love. Yeah. What do you, because I'm one of those people that hate being pregnant. So what is your secret? What do you... Like do you exercise? Do you feel like it's your diet? Do you feel like that's just how it is? Like do you, you know, do you do anything within your lifestyle that, you know, you could, you know, connect it to like, I don't know. Do you have any suspicions? I have no, not really. I mean, other than maybe I think I'm better at shutting out everything else when I'm pregnant and just like, I don't know what it is. I don't know if maybe in the rest of my life I have too much going on and so then I just really simplify when I'm pregnant so I can just focus on, I don't know, just getting to know them and just enjoying it and looking like eating well. Yeah, I probably do eat better. I know that I do eat better because I eat terribly otherwise. But I do think like, you know, both of my pregnancies I do reflect quite a bit. Especially like with Frankie who's nine months. Like what my pregnancy would have been like if I didn't have all of this other stress and all of this other noise around, you know, would I have enjoyed it more? Like how would that have, you know, impacted labor and birth? And yeah, I mean, these are obviously questions that I'll never have answers to, but, you know, it's just like so fascinating to me that. Yeah, you love being pregnant and I'm like, well, I do birth again, but like nine or 10 months of pregnancy, gosh. But it makes me happy that that's possible for women, you know? It might be one of the lucky ones. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what it is. I think I don't know what it is. My husband takes really good care of me. I have to give him massive props. Like, maybe I just like the attention. Yeah. Oh gosh, maybe. Maybe. It's worth another child. It's totally worth expanding. Let's go for it. You can listen to this. Oh no, he's not allowed. Oh gosh. And so, um, so yeah. So with Memphis, you had the exact same midwives. Uh, exact same midwives. Yep. So Vanessa was... But with Knox, not. Um, with Knox, no. So Peter had had her own, um, and was not, yeah, working at the time. So we had another midwife who's... beautiful Naomi, who's a beautiful local midwife who everyone knows here, Naomi with the purple hair. Yeah, she's wonderful, but she was really local and I think being she's going to keep barking. I'm sorry. That's okay. She's missing out. She's so cheeky. She was local. She was around the corner from me and I think Vanessa also thought that would be great because third baby, you just sort of never know. Yeah. Isn't it like their babies are, they're like wild cards. Yeah. That's what I hear. You just never know what's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which good decision. Um, cause he was a really fast person. Wow. And do you remember roughly like how many hours like, um, Daisy and Memphis were like, obviously had like that big like day labor kind of pre -labor stuff with Memphis, but like, Is there any sort of sense of how long they lasted for or like how long that was? I reckon, like for Daisy, I'd probably like I wouldn't even count the waters breaking to be honest, because nothing really happened. So probably from like 5 p .m. and she was born just before midnight. So, yeah, like pretty short for a first baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, really. And so then I guess, yeah, then Memphis through because you are what is happening. That was the mind game, I think, with him. because I totally expected it to be very quick labor. Yeah, yeah, so that threw me. So yeah, it was all day and then probably pretty much the same as far as like, if you want to call it like active labor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so how many hours, did you say five hours for Knox? So for Knoxy, I had had niggles enough to keep Geordie home from work, but. I really thought it was going to be another Memphis situation. And so we actually went there for three weeks. I actually was, it was a Monday again that I kept doing from where. I was like history's just repeating itself. But instead of chasing my labor, cause I was so tired because I'd been walking all day that for Memphis labor. Like how silly. I look back and I'm like what a goose. See you did like a marathon before you did another marathon. Like what is wrong with you? So true. Anyway, surrender is the word that comes to mind. Yes. Um, stay here. Um, yeah. So with Noxy, I was like, I'm just ignoring it because probably not even anything. It's third baby. You know, I could be in, in and out of labor for weeks. You know, my body's getting ready. So, um, I had done more reading obviously about like. that this is normal. And my midwives after that had been like, look, it was all completely normal. It was just that your body was prepping. Yeah. You know, in its own way. And that's just how bodies work. They do whatever they want. You can't control them or anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So we actually went on a play date. We went to my sister in -law's house and we were on the trampoline. It was great. Like we were having a great time. Oh my gosh. I'm just like imagining like desperately want to get this baby out. So you're on the trampoline. Were you actually on the trampoline? I think I was just sitting in my kids were like bouncing around me. I don't think it would have been anything too hectic because I wasn't really, I was having some mild feelings, but like I was, I was out. So it wasn't enough to, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You just push on, don't you? I guess when you just live in, you just keep going. Yeah. And Jordy was there and he was playing and I was just chatting. And then I went to the toilet and I had this almighty surge of like, like this is real labor. You just was like, I've got to go home. I've just, I was still at the play date. I'm going to go guys. I'm pretty sure I'm having a baby. Yeah. Yeah. So I said to George, like, let's go home. Um, I would love, like, I think labor's probably coming. So I just want to just go home and just have like a little rest because I'm a bit tired. So I'll just go home and like have a little sleep. Um, so just grab all the kids stuff and you know, I'm waddling like full waddling because I'm in labor. Um, but not realizing. And anyway, my sister -in -law was like, bye, great. Nice to see you catch you later. Like no clue. I hadn't told her I was having any surges at all. Wow. Total secret while we were there. Um, which sort of felt like really cheeky. I kind of liked it. Um, and we got home and I, my husband was putting the other kids down or Memphis down for a nap and sort of just laying with him in his bed while I laid down for my own sort of nap. And the water sheet was like annoying me. I'd had this. Like, you know how you make like a plazania. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like a bed lasagna. I bet. Yeah. Yeah. I knew what you meant. Whereas like you're making you're making the bed multiple times. Yes. With like, and I had the sheets there in case my waters broke. Yeah. No, I was still in this weird head fray. Yeah. At least you weren't carrying your towel. No, I wasn't carrying a towel. So, and it was just rustling and it was irritating me so much. So I pulled it out from under, like I ripped it out and I was like, great. I can like lay down and go to sleep. And I had like, still had little surges coming every 20 minutes sort of thing, but nothing major. Like I could totally, I was like, oh great. I'll get a good little nap in. And the next surge that came was just like exactly like the one on the toilet. And I just had to get up on all fours. And then my waters just exploded everywhere. Like a movie. There's not enough towels now. And I just grabbed the sheet and like dragged it under me to try and catch anything. Wow. Oh, and so that was the beginning of his labor. Yeah. Whoa. And so how how long were you in labor then for? So that was around midday and then it ramped up like straight away. And I had to call Jordi up from putting Memphis asleep like he could. couldn't do it alone. I was in the shower and it got to about one ish. Yeah, I don't know. So probably half an hour later. And I'd been just having like back to back really, really strong contractions. And I said to Jordan, like, you got to call the midwife and just tell her my waters have broken and she needs to come. I'm feeling like a lot of pressure straight away. And so beautiful Naomi popped around the corner. She was only five minutes away. And And she got there, I think it was like 1.30 and then everyone came. So I didn't realize, but Jordy had actually called his parents to come and pick up the other kids to take them so that they, cause I thought labor was going to go on all day so that they could go and do something fun and then come back in the evening for the birth. Like cause I was planning. Trying to control nature. Yeah, always. Yeah. So sort of Naomi came. My mum had arrived at the same time. I'd called her at the same time. Yeah. Um, my in -laws got there, Vanessa walked in and I was at the bottom of the shower. The water had gone cold because we didn't have the sort of hot water system that like facilitated much longer than 20 minutes. Yeah, hot showers. Yeah, of course. And, and then he was, and he was just there. And so all my family was just out in the lounge room while I was in the bathroom having knocks. Wow. That is amazing. Wild card. Wild card. Yeah. Oh my goodness. So it was like an hour. Yeah, it was from Waters breaking. I think it was 25 minutes or 35 minutes somewhere there, but it was very, oh my goodness. And so the kids were still there. Everyone was there. And I remember. I remember. being in the bottom of the shower and like birthing. I don't I think I must have birthed my placenta already. Yeah, I would have. And Bubby was sort of covered and I was covered a little bit. And I remember my mother -in -law coming in, like I'd given permission. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like can she come? Can mom come in? And I was like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like come in and I remember looking like I've looked back now and I think that's so like not something I would normally do. Like I was just on this oxytocin like. Yeah. High. Flying high as a kite. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm glad I did. Like I still, I loved every minute of that birth. It was brilliant. Just so, so him, he is that person. Like that is his personality as well. Just an absolute nutcase. So like in such a good way. Wow. Oh my gosh. That's so special. That like basically gives me like chills. Like, whoa. That's amazing. And so like, wow, it also so freaking fast. Yeah. Did you tear? I think I might have with him a little bit. But I've never, I never had much pain with it. I think it might've been little tears, but I always found grazers way worse whenever it had like grazers with the babies. Yeah. Yeah. But no, like as far as recovery with him. I think I did a little bit just because the shower was so small. I couldn't maneuver my body in the way that I usually could in the pool. And I like could never have imagined birthing like on land, if that makes sense. Because I'm such a water person. But yeah, no, I mean it was. And so Daisy at that point is like five? Yeah, she would have been like four and four and a half ish. Yeah. So she came in and. Yeah. And I think the probably like in a bath, obviously like it's all white and there was blood and yeah. Yeah. And I think she sort of took one look and was like, cool. And she was out of it. Bye. You do you mom. Amazing. And so what is baby four's number name? What name? Name. So his name is Townes. You're like very cool man. Oh, thank you. I'm sure they're going to hate us. Memphis hates us already for his pH. Oh gosh. And so how many years is between Knox and Townsend? So there's, there'd be like just over four. Okay. Yeah. So a bigger gap. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause we were, we were not planning to have probably anymore, baby. I say probably, but we hadn't opened the conversation. Like it was, yeah, we'd just bought a house and it was COVID. It was wild time. So yeah, we've not made any plans to continue. Yeah. And so then at that, when Towns is born, then Daisy is like about nine or so then. Yeah. Yeah. So she, she turned nine just after he was born, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, um, like nine years since your very first birth experience, did you do anything different? Did you feel different? Like obviously a four year gap is also, um, you know, a bigger gap than you had had. Like, did you, had you developed any fears? Like, had anything changed? Well, you know, what did happen in between was I had accompanied some friends and family to their births, which were not home births. There was two in a birth center and one in a hospital. Okay. And yeah, so I'd seen the way things are done in facilities that I had never. I'd never witnessed that before. Like I'd only heard about it, but I had witnessed how care providers had spoken and how women were treated and conveyable care. Like it was, so I do think going into my fourth birth, I was carrying a lot more than what I had ever carried with any of the births just because I'd had that exposure to trauma. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And not with all of them. just little bits and pieces in each of them, which yeah. And did the fear kind of, or did the emotion come from? you know, knowing. what is possible or knowing just simply knowing or was there something in particular that you were that you know brought up that emotion? You know what I don't really know what it was I just it was just this heaviness like I just felt this immense heaviness about it and it never made me like it actually made me feel stronger about where I was birthing and who I was birthing with and be so grateful for finding the people that had cared for me because like still to this day, I'm so grateful for them for caring for me in such a respectful and beautiful way and honoring my autonomy and like I've never had a vaginal exam in my life with all my babies. I've never been like... I've never been invaded or pushed to do a test or told I can't be a part of something because I don't do something. Like I have just been advocated for and supported through every single pregnancy and birth and postpartum. And so I really, I did, I, I like, I did not understand what it was like for women going through this. And I think I just felt such a heaviness about like, Yeah, I don't, I don't know what it was. It was just, it was just a different perspective, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And did that, did you have any, you know, if, if baby number three is a wild card, I feel like baby number four is sort of also a wild card. Like, did you have any suspicions about how Townsend's labor and birth, you know, how that might play out? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, for sure. I thought I was going to just like sneeze and he'd fall out. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. I had that preconception. So I thought he'd come earlier because they'd gradually got earlier and earlier, like just by a few days, but like, you know, so I think Knox was like 39 and one or something. Yeah. Um, and so a hundred percent, I was ready for him to come earlier and I was also ready for it to be like a quick, easy. Dump in the pool, have a baby, done. All done. And it wasn't. Birth is crazy. You're cheeky. So yeah, but still, you know, like having, Peter was back again, the whole birth team was, you know, reunited. It was great. And I've done my dollar training in between as well, which was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you find like in the labor with towns that you know, you put your sort of doula hat on more or were you able to sort of separate yourself or? Yeah, I think only in the way that was probably quite helpful. Yeah, cool. Yeah, I don't think I got too much into, yeah, like the nitty gritty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think. Yeah, it was just more that like, labors can be unpredictable. Like I'd seen that more and more and that I had to eventually surrender into it. That it's not going to happen the way I think it's going to happen. It only took me four kids to get there. Oh, my goodness. And so how did it play out then? Yeah, no, it was so beautiful. It was just we had like early labor during the day. Yeah. and it was all very chilled. We were just sort of doing our normal thing. We went out, we did a few things. We came home in the evening. The kids went to bed as my sort of labor was sort of ramping up a little bit at about like eight o 'clock. And the midwives, you know, I was just laboring all around the house and really enjoying it. It was like a, I really enjoyed that part of his labor for sure. And then I did get quite a lot of back labor again with him. which I was really not hoping for. And you know, you do all the things you go to Kyra, you do all the... I didn't do loads, you know, we were renovating at the time. So I was doing a lot of physical work as it was. So I didn't do a lot of exercises and things. And jumped in the pool. And I did think, you know, like the pushing stage generally with as kids go on. it's not usually like a very long pushing stage because it's like all muscles that have done it before. And that's such a blanket statement to say, like, I don't think that is actually true. But in my head, I still, it was just the one thing that I was like, it'll be two pushes and it'll be out. Because I don't think, Knox is the only one I've ever had the fetal ejection reflex where I just can't stop him from coming out. Like it's happening, we're here. All the others I have actively had to do it. I wouldn't say like, yeah. I don't know, it's a weird thing, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pushed in a way, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, with him, I really did have to feel, I felt like I was bearing down more than any of the other babies. Yeah, wow. And then he, I did actually feel him turn in the birth canal. Wow. And at the time I didn't realize sort of, I 100 % felt it, but I didn't sort of put two and two together about what that could mean. Yeah. And it... He actually came out sunny side up. So he came posterior, which is maybe why he took a little bit more. Yeah. Wow. So then when he's born, then you're looking at his face when you look down. Yeah. Wow. So when I looked down, I looked right at his face. Whoa. Yeah. That's amazing. Does that like speak to his personality? Yeah, I don't know yet. I mean, he's only two, so I feel like I'm still waiting to understand why. Connect the dots. Why were you born like that? Oh wow. And did, so, you know, obviously born in that position, did you tear at all with him? Or was it just still grazes? Just, I might've had a first degree. That's only two years ago. I still can't remember. I think I might've had a first degree, very minor. And maybe a slight graze. Yeah. Somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Did they also. So because you said that Memphis was about four ish kilos. Did they also get bigger or were they? Yeah. Yeah. No. So Memmy was our big, big guy with a huge head. Yeah. And the others all had like were around the three and a half ish. Yeah. Sort of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. I love your stories. I love listening to multiple birth stories because it really just paints the picture that anything you say, like when I, you know, um, was pregnant with Frankie, everybody told me second baby, you'll have a shorter labor, you'll go early. And there's such blanket statements. It's like birth does just not, maybe, yeah, sure. Like you can look at births and say, okay, well, some follow this trend, but like, I think that's just coincidence because like, they're all just different. They're different people, different bodies, like. Whereas the hospital system just treats it as like, well, this is a cinnamon donut. So like, that's going to be a cinnamon donut. Like, yeah. So true. So true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so what was postpartum like with three other kids? I mean, Daisy at this point is nine. So, you know, there's no nappies, no things like that. Like, is that a pro that you've got like three kids that aren't grown up, obviously, but independent. Independent. Did that help? Yeah. Like in some ways for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, like after you've had a certain amount of babies, like it's all very breastfeeding was just second nature. Yeah. Yeah. All that, you know, all of that stuff that you are so worried about with the first one or two. Yeah. Like it's just gets easier and easier. Everyone you have. So yeah, it was the family dynamic. I think that was quite hard. I think my daughter especially has really hard transitions after the babies are born, like with all of them. Yeah. And just with transitions in general, moving houses or anything like that. Okay. She just is a sensitive little soul. So yeah, I think she finds it difficult and she was sad not to get a sister, I think. Yeah. So that was the other side. Poor love. But honestly, they're the best of friends now. And like, you know, towns ask for Daisy all day long while she's at school. So. She got her little best buddy. Yeah. And, um, uh, thank you so much for sharing such beautiful stories. I do have a question about your doula work and you know, that's something that I'm thinking about and I just have two kids. How, how do you make it work with four? Like how, yeah. How do you make it work? Oh yeah. It's a juggle for sure. Like a juggle, but I think, um, Like I've got such a great support system. I 100 % couldn't do it without it. My husband's work is even amazing. You know, if I've got to duck off to a birth, he can come home and work from home. So there's that. And I've got both sets of family here, local in Perth, which are amazing. And yeah, yeah. So I'm very lucky and my kids are very understanding that the plan was always for me to go back to work and do something now. And even though towns came along. Yeah. We're pushing on. Yeah. That's life. Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans, hey? Yeah. Yeah, true. Wow. Wow. But do it. Go and do it. Yeah. I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I'm keen. I'm keen. I'm very excited and yeah, like, yeah, just wow. Wow. I feel like you're really good at telling your stories. And I think, you know, that wasn't even, I imagine, like the intricate details, like maybe you should write a book. Oh, no. Maybe in a few years. Yeah. That's so cool. And do like, do you know, as Daisy is like the only girl, you know, she has three brothers. has, you know, and obviously she's what, 11 now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Has that conversation come up about like, you know, where babies can be born? Like, you know, you were born at home, your brothers were born at home. Has that come up or is that, you know? Yeah, I think, I don't, I haven't had those sorts of conversations. Yeah. I do think it's just second nature to her to like think that. babies are just born at home. Yeah. Which is, I hope what I've given her at least, you know, that by default babies are born at home, hospitals are there if you need them. Yeah. Sort of thing. So I hope so. It's the sort of, yeah, having a girl going into teenage years is, you know, it really like, but it, it sort of makes you like remember how important it is to start planting these seeds early about like trusting your body and. your body works well and how to support your body instead of listening to all the things you should be doing. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it all ties into itself. But yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, my kids have never been in a hospital unless they've broken a bone. Yeah. So I don't know. But that's what I said for, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I don't think it would be their first option to sort of. Yeah. Yeah, we'll see. I don't know if you can hear my kids. Yeah. My kids are like completely screaming. I love it. A bit of reality. Oh, daycare's tough. Daycare's tough. Oh, thank you so, so much for spending this time talking to me, Britt. It's been an absolute pleasure. I feel like I've laughed a lot, which is nice because I'm going to go deal with that meltdown now. Do you have anything else that you want to say or that we didn't talk about? No, like other than thank you so much for doing what you're doing. Like I think for first time mums especially like home birth is like it's not a test birth, it's not a trial birth, like you can do it and just look into it and yeah I think what you're doing is such a massive part of that just normalizing it and yeah it's awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.