Episode 31 is shared by the amazing Crystal who after having had a traumatic hospital birth, had 4 births at home, 3 of which were freebirths. They weren't without their challenges but these stories reinforce that every birth is different, and that in today’s westernised societies especially, we are encouraged to only view one version of birth as ‘normal’ the one that is usually labelled as ‘low risk’. It is with this variation that we learn and can appreciate the power and magic of women’s bodies.
Links to resources:
CHAPTERS
07:01
Crystal's First Birth and Desire for Home Birth
27:06
Discovering Home Birthing and Free Birthing
32:45
The Birth of Crystal's Second Child
43:31
Choosing Home Birth for Lazarus
44:26
Trauma in the Hospital: Feeling Out of Control
51:48
Distrust of the Body: Overcoming Negative Conditioning
01:04:04
The Curse of Death: Navigating Fear and Doubt
01:19:38
Rebellion and Empowerment: Trusting the Body's Wisdom
01:26:23
Believing in the Self: Finding Healing and Empowerment
01:47:00
Snapped umbilical cord
Episode 31 is shared by the amazing Crystal who after having had a traumatic hospital birth, had 4 births at home, 3 of which were freebirths. They weren't without their challenges but these stories reinforce that every birth is different, and that in today’s westernised societies especially, we are encouraged to only view one version of birth as ‘normal’ the one that is usually labelled as ‘low risk’. It is with this variation that we learn and can appreciate the power and magic of women’s bodies.
Links to resources:
CHAPTERS
07:01
Crystal's First Birth and Desire for Home Birth
27:06
Discovering Home Birthing and Free Birthing
32:45
The Birth of Crystal's Second Child
43:31
Choosing Home Birth for Lazarus
44:26
Trauma in the Hospital: Feeling Out of Control
51:48
Distrust of the Body: Overcoming Negative Conditioning
01:04:04
The Curse of Death: Navigating Fear and Doubt
01:19:38
Rebellion and Empowerment: Trusting the Body's Wisdom
01:26:23
Believing in the Self: Finding Healing and Empowerment
01:47:00
Snapped umbilical cord
You're listening to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I recorded this episode on unceded Wurundjeri land in Nam, Melbourne, Australia, where Aboriginal peoples had been birthing at home on country for thousands of years prior to the British invasion. They are the original storytellers. If you want to learn more about me, the podcast, or how I can support you in achieving your home birth, be sure to check out my Instagram at birthingathome.com. episode 31 is shared by Crystal from West Virginia in the United States. She shares her five birth stories, four of which were born at home. Crystal had hoped to have a home birth with her first baby. However, for a variety of reasons, as you will hear, she wasn't able to and had a very traumatic hospital birth. She promised herself she would never birth in such a place again and planned her first home birth attended by a midwife. Influenced by the lack of access to midwifery care, she then went on to have three free births. Crystal's story is a brilliant and beautiful story of learning to love and trust her body. We also touch on home birth for plus sized moms and tools and resources that helped her along the way. This episode also reinforces that every birth is different and that in today's westernised societies especially, we are encouraged to only view one version of birth as normal. the one that is usually labeled as a low risk. It is with this variation that we learn and can appreciate the power and magic of women's bodies. This is obviously a longer episode, so pause it if you need as the births are told in fairly chronological order. And if you love this episode, please make sure to rate or review it on Spotify or Apple podcasts, or send me a message on Instagram at birthingathome underscore a podcast. Enjoy. Welcome, Crystal, to Birthing at Home, our podcast. Thank you. We were just discussing listeners that Crystal is joining us from West Virginia, which I was looking on Google Maps and that is in the east of the United States. Like, how would you describe West Virginia, Crystal? Well, it's 100 % mountains, pretty much. We're in the Smoky Mountains and we're actually in the middle. It's already kind of a state that's in the middle of nowhere when people are traveling. It's a pass through state kind of thing. But we live even further out in the middle of nowhere in a small valley. And it's absolutely beautiful. It's like I'm on vacation every day. And that was kind of the point why we moved there. kind of have mindfulness about where our food comes from. So we started, we have a dairy cow and chickens and you kind of like, we kind of wanted to be in the middle of nowhere so that we could raise our family homeschool and do all things kind of crunchy, I guess is what they call it online. But yeah. Yeah, amazing. So. Obviously you've just discussed that a little bit then, but do you want to give a little bit of background about who you are and who's in your family? Yeah, I am a full -time mom first and foremost, you know, and then I do the homesteading, but I have five beautiful souls that I take care of that call me mom. And my, I guess I just, I have three girls and two boys. My oldest is six, five, two, one, and three months old. So they're all pretty young and that's kind of my life right now. I'm in the middle of trying to get my herbalist certification for specializing in local herbs, which I'm really excited about. But yeah, that's kind of. who I am. I'm really passionate about home birthing and free birthing and especially for plus size moms and helping them know that really it's in my opinion birth doesn't really matter what size you are but it does matter the nutrition that you're getting in your body and and also moving really helps too with the birth and stuff just having. Again, I think it's not your size, it's your lifestyle really. One of the questions I was going to ask or something I was going to reflect on is that your littlest is three months old and we've been planning to do this then for like, I think four months maybe. Does that sound right? Yeah, she's almost... Well, I guess in like six days she'll be fully three months, but yeah. Yeah, wow. Wow. And do you remember how you found my podcast? Because I think it's so cool that you know, you're all the way over there. And you came across my podcast. Well, I went on Google. And I just was trying to type in free birth podcasts and home birth podcast, positive podcasts. You know, I was at the very end of my pregnancy or near it. And I really wanted to listen to different podcasts because there's kind of the main ones. There's like two really like mainstream, at least with big platforms. Yeah. So I was just kind of looking for other, um, more content, I guess, cause I had kind of listened to a, you know, a bunch of the other podcasts and. you kind of get, I just like to hear different people's opinions, different people, interviewers, opinions and thoughts and stuff. And yours was like the second one that came up. So algorithm is favorable. So I really enjoy listening to it. Yeah. Amazing. Oh, that's so cool. I find it so Uh, interesting. So, you know, we were talking before we, we started recording that, um, you have five children and the first, um, who's six, I think you said, um, they were born in a hospital, but since then you've had four babies now at home. Um, and you know, like I've had two babies at home, but like, I just, like how. Yeah, I just find it so interesting that, you know, still after having had four babies, three at home, that you were still searching for birth stories and still found power in listening to other women's stories of, you know, birthing at home with a midwife or without a midwife or whatnot. I guess going like right, right back, you know, you. So I think you said before we started recording that. with your first baby, what's the first baby's name? Zelda. Zelda, such a bad ass name. So when you were going through her pregnancy, you were initially going to go through a birth center, is that right? Well, actually I was trying to plan a home birth. And I had actually run into a free birther without knowing it. She had 12 kids. Her first five were in hospital and the rest were, I think she had a midwife once or twice and then the rest were pre-births. And I remember thinking, wow, that's really cool. I want to do that. But I felt like I needed, I really wanted, what I really wanted was what like a birthkeeper is now. Like I just wanted someone to kind of hold space for me and say what I was feeling was normal. Yeah. And just kind of like help me through my first time going through what I like to call the birthing portal. Yeah. And I knew someone and we were planning on moving to that around that area. She was a traditional midwife, very hands off. But there was a few things that. Like she didn't like working with first time moms and she didn't really tell me that she didn't say straight up. She wasn't gonna ask me. She just kind of said, well, let's, let's keep doing the scans and everything and see how it goes. And, um, uh, she never told me to my face that she wasn't willing until we moved there and I was 36 weeks and I said, so, you know, let's, you know, plan for this convert kind of thing. Cause. she, I felt like she was, she never said anything negative, like straight up no. And so I said, you know, so what do I do now that I'm here? I was trying to feel her out and she pretty much told me, well, you can go to the ER or you can maybe see if this birthing center that just opened up might take you. Wow. And that just blindsided me. I had told everybody, all my family that I was going to have this home birth. Yeah. And I was so excited to move there and be near someone that has the area I was in. We moved across country and there was pretty much no midwives in the area that was with in like a four hour drive. Wow. The only mid home birth midwife there. Um, that would actually cross States and was kind of, she wasn't legal basically. Yeah. But apparently she, she, she was super bossy and I knew I didn't want that. I just, you know, I just wanted somebody to sit in the corner and say, I was okay. You know, was kind of like a, you know, even choosing, you know, want setting out the hopeful for a home birth, like, Was home birth a part of your childhood? Was that something normal that you grew up around? Or how did you learn about home birth? Absolutely not. It was not anything. My journey with birth started with watching my sister when I was 16, watching my sister at 19, have a baby in the hospital. Yeah. And... Um, I remember my parents kind of being kind of nervous and telling me to pray, you know, that kind of thing is they're super religious. And I was just like, well, what's the problem? She's just having her baby. And I said, well, you know, she's getting an epidural and there's complications that can go with that. And I remember saying, really? And that was when I first realized there's a lot of complications that can go in having an epidural and all that. Yeah. So I remember telling my dad, um, You know, epic girls aren't for me. I don't think it's worth the risk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my dad and mom were both like, well, you'll change your tune when you get there. You know, nobody can. And so when I started talking about having a home birth with with my my first baby, everybody was just kind of like, Well, basically I want to put up with their shit. So if they came at me with any questions, I tried to do as much research as I could. And I say, you know what? Um, I believe natural birth is the most healthy for baby. And for me, I came across an amazed Ted talk on YouTube. Okay. And, um, I was watching a lot of YouTube content about, um, natural birth and how. more positive it is on the baby and on you and recovery and how drugs can interfere with all of those hormones. And I really wanted to try to do my best to stay away from it because I felt like that was the best for my baby. So yeah, that's kind of, well, that and I had had a miscarriage before her. it was chemically induced without my consent. It's kind of a bit of a story, but I ended up having a four month miscarriage and I did that all at home by myself. Just because I didn't want to pay the hospital bill. Basically I knew my body to do it. I knew that, you know, so that's kind of why I just kind of started. trying to put work in without knowing anything, really just trying to learn. So it was kind of my background from why I started going into looking at natural birth to me. It just was like, my body was made to do this. I didn't realize that when you sign into a hospital, you sign with even most midwives, it's like something that you're, you're signing kind of over your, your, uh, autonomy. And, um, I didn't realize that I thought I had like full control and full say that I could say, I want this, this, and this. And they would just buy, you know, do it for me, you know, because yeah, we all paying. Yeah. That's kind of where I approached it. Yeah, yeah, I'm paying them. So I was very kind of naive to the fact that that's not how it is. Yeah. And the second you kind of you sign over your power pretty much when you sign their paperwork and invite them in. Yeah. And that's something I had truly like thought of, you know, because in Australia, for the most part, a home birth isn't supported by our health care system. So pretty much you can have so many like we have Medicare in Australia. So, you know, health care is basically free. But to have a home birth is, you know, It depends state to state, but like from 5,000 to I guess, $10 ,000, you know. Um, but in the States, like how much, because, you know, I guess that's such a, uh, issue in accessing home birth in Australia, because going to hospital is free, but obviously in the States, it's a bit different. Like how much does it cost to have a baby in a hospital there? Yeah. Well, I mean, this was back in 2017. Prices have gone skyrocketed in the last few years, but with it was still it was$10 ,000. Yes. Just without a C -section. And I remember it's really hard to get insurance or coverage when you find out you're pregnant because they call it a pre-existing condition. What I thought was crazy. That was my first like so you I had to pay even more. I think we were paying like five hundred dollars a month for insurance just so that we didn't have to pay ten thousand. We ended up, I think, total when you after the insurance, I think we paid like three or four thousand dollars. Yeah. You know. But then also they ended up because of what happened to me in the hospital, they ended up not charging me and writing me a check. So, oh my goodness. I mean, well, I guess, do you want to show we start a little bit by do you want to I guess like summarize that hospital birth experience with Zelda? Yeah, I mean, I started off with my water breaking. We like we had just moved and I was 38 weeks pregnant two weeks after we moved. It was we had just gotten everything settled. I put all the brand new baby clothes in the wash. Everything was kind of. Set so. that night we had sex and labor started and I had no idea labor was starting. And then that morning I kind of spent the night in and out of the bathtub and laying on the bed and then I realized, oh, my back hurts but it's coming and going. And then I realized, oh, there's a pattern to it. And then I think it was like nine in the morning, my water broke and it wasn't very theatrical or big or anything. It just like, started trickling. And so I, um, I had called the birth center cause we had set up, uh, they were willing to take us and they said, um, okay, well we'll, we'll check your waters probably didn't break. You know, they acted like I was a complete idiot. And, um, they did, you know, I get there, they test me and I'm like, Oh, they have your waters broken. Yeah. I told you. But pretty much the second, yeah, the second I left the house, everything stopped. Yeah. And then they said I needed to, they decided to treat me like I was start being positive because the test hadn't come back or didn't come from like the other doctors that I was working with before. So I needed penicillin every four hours. Oh my gosh. So they ended up, I ended up, uh, nothing happening except for light tightnings. And, you know, now that I've had lots of babies, my body was just doing its thing. You know, the second I didn't feel safe, everything kind of calmed down. And then when I was, you know, at the birth center, they were having me do the spinning babies thing, the mild circuit and. Um, nothing was starting it. And then they were like, well, you know, it's been 12 hours. Um, we can send you into the hospital and get you on. It wasn't put toast in. It was like this pill form that wasn't supposed to be as strong as the toast. Um, we can get you on something that I forget the name of it, but we can get it start, maybe get labor started. And, you know, if, if labor doesn't start by. tomorrow morning when it's been 24 hours, we have to transfer you anyway, so might as well go in and get things started. Oh my gosh. And I was only four centimeters. Yeah. So I was only four centimeters dilated. And well, they also like they asked me which room I wanted in the birth center. I wanted the smaller room because it was darker and smaller it felt. And I don't want the big room or big spaces or anything because I kind of want to be in a cave. Yeah. And. I got settled in a small room and they said, oh, we decided you need to be in the big room because you said you wanted to labor in a pool. Then they moved me. So, you know, that was another disturbing thing. So I never got comfortable. And then we go to the hospital. It took forever to sign paperwork. I'm super uncomfortable because I'm kind of in that like halfway birthing portal or my. my waters have broken, I'm kind of in this like, I just want to go home. Yeah, of course. And I should have, I should have just gone home. That's, we should have just said, ah, nevermind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sign the paperwork. Yeah. We got moved into a room. They said it was like the last room because they knew I wanted a water, at least labor in the. water. So they gave me a room that had a little bit of a bathtub. So we were there and then the pill they gave me, of course, I still only had contractions every 15 minutes, they were getting more and more intense, but I was still only four centimeters dilated the next morning, because I went in at midnight, because that was my 12 hours and then Yep. Next morning it was still nothing. So they gave me another dose. And then by noon I was still, you know, still four centimeters dilated. My body was just not having it. I was super frustrated. And I did keep paying to the midwife. I'm willing to do anything except for have a C -section. Like a C -section is not in my story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And because I want to have more kids, I want to have a big family, you know, see sex just now. We'll just do whatever we can to get baby out and work from there. And I think I was kind of frustrating her because she had been in and out all night and that she said, well, let me check you again. Is after this, after the second dose, it's been like four hours after the second dose. And. I had told her also that if I need Pitocin, I'm willing to get an epidural because I knew Pitocin can be super strong. I also knew, I even knew it back then, that if you don't get an epidural with Pitocin, like the nurses will try to make you feel like you need an epidural. They'll treat you horrible kind of a thing, at least here in the States. That's what they do. They kind of really try to push on you. So. Yeah. Yeah, I was just like, I wasn't willing to fight that. When I already, you know, I've been out for like 48 hours at this point. Yeah. And the pain was so manageable. It was just, I was so tired. I remember. But anyways, she raped me pretty much when she checked me. Her whole hand went up me past her, past her wrist. And my husband, said that I look like the exorcist. Oh my goodness. My bum, like I'm a, I was 260 pounds at the time of five, five. I'm a pretty big girl, but I jumped like my, my butt jumped off the table and back. And I remember it was the first time I ever, you remember thinking if I understand why people like give into torture because this feels like torture. Yeah. I would literally do anything or say anything to make this stop. And I remember involuntary sobbing and begging her to stop. And she did something that made me bleed all over the bed. And then she deemed me too sensitive to push the baby out and that I need to be having a girl. I was just like, this is ridiculous. I already told you I wanted it of the girls. So if I got because I knew that they do this kind of thing to you, if they kind of encouraging take the test to get that they're all. Yeah. So yeah, it's just I'm so I'm so. So sad to hear that Crystal, but you know, it happens in Australia as well. And I guess we're conditioned to believe that because we're pregnant and because, you know, we're having a baby and vaginal examinations and like touching women's vaginas are such a normalised part of being pregnant that it's okay. but like it's not okay if someone is touching you in a way that you don't want to be touched and you've not given consent. That's assault. That is rape. Like very clear. It was in the other. Any other circumstances yet? Everybody would put them in jail. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And it was, I know my story isn't unique, you know, Since then, I've talked to a lot of moms that have dealt with stuff like this. I think she was trying to manually dilate my cervix. And I went through, I remember whatever she did, she tore something because I bled through four different chakras underneath me and onto this blanket that I brought from home to make things feel more homey because I heard that if you bring a blanket from home that has this smell, smell of your home that could help with oxytocin and all that. But anyways, I know it's not unique sadly, but it just is what it is. And my husband actually jumped up and instinctively was gonna rip her off me. And there was someone next to him that looked at him like, you know, don't. because she's the midwife, so let the midwife do what they're doing. And he was like, he's so mad at himself. He's like, I should have just ripped her off you, because that was ridiculous and horrible. And that actually got him onto pre-birthing and home birthing. He was already kind of, he was a tiny bit on the fence. Sorry, I'm trying to nurse baby here. He was very supportive of natural birth. After watching that, he was just like, I'm never going to let you be in a situation where I stand and let that happen ever again. Like, yeah, absolutely not. So let's do whatever it takes to not let that happen again. Yeah. Because then, you know, I recently recorded an episode with, um, Um, that, you know, stuff was happening, uh, like things were being done to her and whatever, and she was getting emotional about it as you would. But then they said that she was getting too emotional and she was too anxious. And like, that was because, you know, that was the reason this was happening, but actually it was the stuff they were doing that was making her anxious. But instead they said, you know, similar to what you said, they, you know, too sensitive and like, you know, Yeah. Just disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Yeah. She's like, clearly your vagina is too sensitive. So you need to get more interventions. And yeah, to me, I look back and I think about it's like, you know, she put her whole hand and a part of her arm disappeared into me. Like, yeah, yeah. But and then I remember. you know, they, they turned all the lights on. They said, okay, you're going to get an epidural. And I was just like, whatever. At this point, I'm already super sleep deprived. And I thought if that is what pushing a baby feels like, I did, I don't think I could handle that level of pain again, which actually that's not like what she did to me was way more painful than any of my other births combined. Like, yeah, it's just, Yeah, yeah. That's not normal. You know, like, that's, that's not normal. Like, it's, it's, if you know, that's pathophysiology, that's, that's not your hand isn't meant to, you know, your entire hand and arm is not meant to cup your vagina. That's, that's mad. So, so then, Did Zelda need assistance to be born after you had the epidural? Well, so they messed up the epidural and scraped my bone. And then he was yelling at me because I went into, because they didn't have to do that to me. Then they wanted to do the epidural. And my body went into shock and it started shaking uncontrollably. you know, I'm like a nude because I didn't want to put the horrible hospital gown on. Because all I could think of is like, someone could have died in this and I wouldn't know, like, I don't want that energy on me. So, so true. Oh my gosh, I'd never thought of that. And I was just trying to like, so, you know, they were, he was, he's literally yelling at me saying, if you don't get me still, I can't, I'm not going to let you have this up girl. I'm like, I don't want it in the first place. Like, anyway, so yeah, the first time he scraped my spine and that's kind of what caused the hospital to kind of be scared of a lawsuit. So, yeah, because I had numbness and stuff for several months after and well, but they, After that happened and I got that, the girl was able to sleep and then I still wasn't dilated. It was maybe dilated to six, but the person turned all the way up and she said, you know, we need to start thinking about a C -section. And I was just like, absolutely not. I can tell my baby's okay. And then she's like, well, you know, baby's starting to sew shins, you know, just trying to. And I was just like, of course, because I have an epidural and pitocin and that's what happens to babies when you have an epidural and pitocin, their heart rates can drop and you know, let's just get this baby out as soon as possible. Yeah. So I said, well, you know, I am laying on my back and that's not good for me or baby. Is there any way we can reposition me? And I said, I can move my left leg if you can move my right leg. And she says, said, well, I guess we could drive you over the back of the bed. So I said, OK, let's do it. So me turn around and on my knees, it kind of draped over the back of the bed. And 30 minutes later, I was fully dilated. And if I went to that advocated for myself just in that, like, you know, if I would have just just think about that, you know, But then they, you know, they turned me over, they checked me, they say baby's heart rate still going a little wonky. So they said I needed to consent to the thing that they screw in the baby's head. So I was just like, okay. I didn't quite understand what it was. Like my brain kind of felt, didn't, I didn't, I wasn't. I hadn't looked into it. I didn't really know what they were saying, but I was actually like when you when you sort, I guess, you know, I've never had that experience. I've seen them use it. And obviously I've heard many women talk about it, but it seems actually barbaric, like actually how they like what it is. So I don't think your mind, you know, even if it was sort of proposed to you. in the moment, I don't think your mind would immediately go to, oh, they're going to screw it into the baby's head. I like, so I, yeah, I don't think you can blame for that. Yeah, no, I didn't really think like, my brain kind of had this like thought of like, somehow like, would magnetize to the head or something. My brain didn't actually think about, you know, so, but I was still kind of like, I am willing to do anything. And they said, well, we have to be monitoring her. or you have to go to the C -section, you know, they kept waving that C -section card. Yeah. So I was like, okay, whatever. And I had already signed the paperwork that I didn't want the hepatitis B vaccine. So they were already kind of, you know, rolling their eyes at me. And, but they, It took me 45 minutes of pushing and I, they had a, uh, the NICU team in the room. Wow. And I had over 16 people standing around and I was very, I was a very private person. So it was very overwhelming. I remember having to close my eyes and pretend like I was the only one in the room because just the idea that at least 16 or more people staring at my vagina. was just so overwhelming that I couldn't, I had to go to a different place in my mind and pretend like, you know, it was just me and my husband kind of thing. But, you know, it was pushing, I think I started pushing it at nine centimeters because they were worried about baby. I knew baby, the whole time I knew baby was fine. Constantly, I had no worries about the baby. I surprised the NICU was there because of how much I knew baby was fine. Yeah. And like I said, there's 45 minutes of pushing. She was super impressed that I had like the control I did with pushing. I was pushing very, very well with having an adult girl and everything. Yeah. And apparently I didn't, you know, I didn't feel anything like everybody says they feel. I knew how to push. because I had kind of studied that, but it wasn't like, I couldn't feel baby coming through my vagina or I didn't even feel baby's head out. But apparently baby Zelda was instantly crying the second her head was out. Yeah. Wow. Apparently that's when everybody just kind of took a breath and was like, Oh, she's fine. Let's leave. Yeah. Kind of thing. And then, then she came out and, um, You know, I had, you know, the people coaching me yelling at me one, two, three, four, keep going. You know, I remember being so out of breath and not breathe, not breathing. Yeah. Just was kind of a mess. And then they, they put baby on my chest. They pretended like they did prolonged cord clamping, but really it was just maybe five minutes. Yeah. And, um, Then they had my husband cut the cord and then they took baby from me and just put her under the heat lamp. And I said, can I have my baby back? And she's like, we need to focus on you, honey. You can't have your baby. We need to get this placenta out. And then I looked up to my husband. I said, go be with her because he was also super nervous because they already, you know, we can tell they already didn't like us and were worried, you know. here, and I'm sure it's in a lot of places, just turning down a vaccine can get social services involved. So we were just kind of holding our breath and like trying to be quote unquote good so that we could get out of there eventually, you know, without hiccups. So he did, he walked over there and was with her and then they did the fundal massage and I didn't feel any of it. I was just, I remember seeing, like I did feel the blood clots come out of me and it felt really weird, like an alien. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember she asked me what I wanted to do with the placenta. And I said, just throw it away. And then I heard the nurse say to her, what do you want me to do with this placenta? Should I put it in the bio trash pretty much? And she said, No, put it in the freezer. And I, she kept my placenta. So I have no idea what happened. She might've sold it or I don't want to. And I remember like looking at her, like I said to throw it away. She's like, yeah, well, you don't want it. So I get it. It was just like, what in the world? Um, yeah. And she's like, well, you know, I'll keep it for just in case you want to encapsulate it. I don't know. There's been since there's been stories of, you know, stories have come out that there's some like obis and midwives that self -centred. Yeah, I've heard that too. What the heck? Oh my gosh. That's so, that's so icky. Oh my gosh. Um, so no wonder. No wonder. Yeah. We're like, I'm not going through this again. Like, you know, cause you've gone on to have four more babies out of the system. And like, yeah, of course. Who would want to go into the system after you've experienced all of that? That's, that's horrible. Um, like, yeah, wow. She was six pounds exactly. So they told me she was a full term preemie. So. They made me stay an extra day. So we were there for four days. Oh my God. Had a 30. She had a, she said I had a slight hemorrhage. So I could checked on every 30 minutes for the first 24 hours. Every 30 minutes for the first 24 hours. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. What? So I had no sleep. I was, you know, I was already super tired from having no sleep and then. And then once they finally turned off the, the, the check, the 30 minute check thing, um, even though I was perfectly fine, um, they, that's when Zelda started cluster feeding. And, um, she was pretty much on my breast every 15 minutes for 10 minutes for 12 hours straight. And, you know, she was doing her job to get my milk in. Yeah, and I was sorry this baby smacking away over here. But I just it was it was so miserable and I just wanted to go home and and then I got an E. coli infection from the catheter they put in me which I course the midwife, like I told the midwife, like once I finally got home, then the next day I had to go get a midwife appointment. And because I had stitches, I did tear, I had a second degree tear. And I told her, I think I have a UTI. And she's like, oh, you probably don't, but just in case I'll write you a prescription and we'll get your urine tested. And I'm really glad she did because, Uh, like 24 hours later, I came down with the worst fever I've ever had. It was like 104 degrees. And I had to get into an ice bath to get it down, but I had antibiotics, so I didn't go into the hospital. So postpartum was totally, it started off horrible and my postpartum was absolutely miserable. The whole time I had really bad postpartum depression and, um, I really, really struggled. mentally after all that happened. Well, it yeah, it makes sense that you this is your initiation into motherhood and by such a yeah, like drama, assault, field entry into motherhood by it, you know, and motherhood as I talk about with. You know, most people on the past podcast, um, you know, it's challenging in itself and becoming a parent, like however many times it's always there's challenges, but going into that, having experienced all of this, um, in some of your most vulnerable, like, you know, one of the most vulnerable moments of your life or times in your life, like that. Yeah. Like it's no, it's like no surprise really that, um, you know, women, you know, develop postpartum anxiety and postpartum depression. Yeah. Postpartum was a bit of a struggle for sure. Yeah. And so, so there's Zelda and then how old is your next baby? Lazarus is five. Yeah. So I think I was, they were pretty close. Yeah. So, you know, you discovered that you're pregnant with Lazarus and, um, is it immediate? Like I'm, I'm definitely not going back to the hospital. Oh, for sure. Oh yeah. I mean, we had our early plan as soon as we signed out of that hospital where like, I, we'll never sign into hospital again unless I'm literally dying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like our, we felt like prisoners. We realized it was a very eye -opening experience. It was like kind of a voluntary prison once we sat in and we were just like, we, we were both freedom thinkers and believe strongly in freedom. And, um, just kind of for me, because I grew up in a, religious cult, it felt like I was just going back into like a medical cult where I had to just do everything the way they told me and I couldn't ask questions or else I was treated badly. Yeah, that's a really good way to put it. I did. Like I, I got Zelda out of like the wellness checks pretty soon, pretty early on because. I made the excuse that, oh, I just want to find a doctor that's a little bit closer. So they didn't ask, they didn't push. And then we just decided, you know, we go to the doctor when we're on wall. Yeah, that's what it is. That's what it's there for. Yeah. And we're both fine. We're all fine. The baby's fine. You know, that kind of thing. And that's why I remember crying because I was really overwhelmed with the idea of being pregnant again because of. the trauma that I'd gone through. I was having to face all my fears and I had to work through, I would just work through it. And I hadn't quite yet worked through it in my mind, even though while it was happening to me the whole time, I know a lot of women, they'll say, oh, well, at first, you know, they try to tell you, oh, well, you did the best you can, you know, things just happen the way they're, they're, they just happen like that sometimes you're supposed to be okay with it. And I just was not okay with it the whole time. Yeah. Very aware that this isn't the way it's can go. Yeah. And that's why we the the home birth midwife that I had originally started talking to. I was like, I told her look, I know. my birth was sabotaged because I knew if I would have just stayed home, baby would not just fine. So, yeah, the baby was fine and I was fine. Just, so yeah, that's when we planned a home birth. And so can you easily access midwives where you are? No. Yeah. Okay. She is actually, she was a friend of the family. Yeah. on my husband's side. And it was like they're in that state, they kind of in a roundabout way made it illegal. It depends from state to state whether or not it's midwives can work. And she was certified in a different state through kind of like the traditional midwifery instead of having to go through the nurse because there's two different kinds here. There's traditional and then there's, um, I think they're called RN registered nurse midwives or something like that. Um, but, um, so I was kind of lucky that, and she was already pretty much retired. She just did every great now. And then, cause she was a part of the family. Um, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was you know, she offered to do it for free. And I was gonna try to, I didn't know, we, she basically said, you know, you can pay me if you have the money, but I know that she knew finances were tight. We kind of bit off more than we could chew with the mortgage at the time. So things were super tight and my husband, got his hours cut. So, you know, at the time we were kind of stressed about that. And so she was wanting to do it for us for free. Yeah. And. everything went well during that pregnancy. Everything was textbook. Everything was perfect. She did have me go in and she knew an obstetrician that was had his own practice. It was the only one left in the state that had their own practice that wasn't owned by the big hospitals. Wow. Yeah. And because here there's there's kind of it's very like, Um, there was pretty much cone health in that state. That's the name of it. Um, pretty much owned every doc in that state. That still had his license because they owned the, the licensing board. Oh my gosh. That's so corrupt. It's, it's very corrupt. It's absolutely horrible. He was the last one that was so well. willing and able to see moms. You just said you wanted a midwife home birth scan. Yeah. And just didn't tell him who the midwife was because that's a legal thing and she could get in trouble. So he was also willing to meet you at the hospital if there was complications. Wow. So that the hospital didn't treat you like a crazy home birth or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. One of those hippies. It looked like you were under his care. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he... He did a scan, um, an ultrasound and the placenta was a little bit close to the cervix, um, low lying placenta is what you call it. Yeah. And he, um, so he had me come back again and it had moved. So then he cleared me. So then she was comfortable with doing the homework and, um, and, uh, I went for two weeks with him. Well, I went 40, 41 and five. Yeah. And she did not like that. Like she kept pushing that I needed to try different things to get baby to start moving. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, Yeah. Do you have any questions about that pregnancy? It was pretty normal, really. Yeah, I guess. I'm so curious. Like, so you had the the home birth with the midwife. And I mean, we we could speak all day if we went into all the details, but I'm wondering. I don't have to go into details. Yeah, that's all right. I'm wondering, like. You know, so you had you heard of free birth at this time then, like, because obviously the midwife, there's already a couple of red flags perhaps. And like, did, did it occur to you that, oh, I could actually just do this by myself or was it confidence in yourself? Like did the, the birth experience shake your confidence or? Well, I. I always had, I kind of, what I like to call is like had my demons. I had this distrust of my body. I was raised to hate myself and hate my body. And you know, see myself as dirty and ugly and horrible. So I, I really felt like I needed, like I wasn't ready to stand in my own power and I hadn't, Like I had in my head, I might free birth, you know, when I had the experience and I felt all the whole birth and I just, I still felt like I needed someone else's validation or someone else's like experience to tell me that my body was okay and was doing okay. Like I didn't trust my body yet. And you know, and she did put a lot of fear in me. near the end because she was just like, well, maybe, you know, you're just too fat to go into birth naturally. And, um, you know, I was super active. I was walking a lot. I was, um, doing lots of squats and lunges, trying to, you know, have the muscle and be able to do it. Um, long story short with his birth, I mean, I had back labor the whole time. And I had contractions on and off for a week and she made, she had me do castor oil. She hated doing physical exams. Like she didn't like checking you, which I think is great. So I actually had to force her because she said, like, if I didn't go into labor that night, my last visit when she came over that. Um, I had to go to the hospital the next day. Yeah. And I was just not like, I didn't even have a backpack. I was just not in my brain that I would go to a hospital. But the idea of free birth, I didn't even know that was a thing. Yeah. Um, like that I wasn't capable of doing that. So, um, I begged her to check me because I knew things were going on. Like I knew I was pretty much in labor. But, um, and my body, like I have on and off labor. So it starts and then it's really like my feet, my, my labors are really, they start off super gentle, you know, and I get to take a lot of naps and rest and she kept telling me to keep moving. So I was, but then I go take a nap and then I'd wake up and I'd have more bloody show. Like it was obvious that the more I rested, the more I progressed. And the more I tried to push myself is when labor would stop. Yeah. Anyways, she, I finally talked, begged her to check me just cause I knew things were happening, but she wasn't, she didn't believe me. So, yeah. So she did. And I was six, almost seven centimeters. She's like, well, technically you're in labor right now. You're just installed labor. It's like, well, see, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways. Um, and then that night, um, Like 10 to 10 to 10 30 to midnight. I had a bunch of contractions and I could no longer handle it after 12 30. I was just like, if this is not labor, I don't know what is. So I'm going to go to the hospital. If, if, you know, it gets like any worse. So I called the midwife and she's like, you're not far enough along. You can talk to me. So I really don't, it would be a waste of time for me to come out. She was two hours away. So I was like, no, I need you to come out and check me because if not, I'm going to go to the hospital because this is incredibly strong. And I remember before she got there, I remember sitting and feeling his head in between my legs. Like if I would have tried to push just a little bit, I probably... could have had my baby in my arms. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I felt like I needed the whole thing. Because I felt like I needed a midwife there. Yeah. It was just, you know, it was a mental game. So an hour after she was there, I had him, I it was weird. I didn't feel him go through the birth canal. Wow. I was not medicated. Yeah. This is so weird to me that I didn't feel him because all my other babies I I definitely felt go through like I had no ring of fire. I reached down like, oh, there's a head. She's like, oh, do you want to check in? And then the head was out. I was just like, oh, well, the head's out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then he came out and I think three pushes, my water broke as his head was coming out. And I was super shocked. I was kind of shocking and not in like a, like my, I was really out of it. Like I was kind of, I kept my, I feel like my soul kept leaving my body and I was seeing it in third person. And I was very much in this like victim mindset. Like, woe is me. This birth is happening to me. You know, this pain is happening. It was kind of like the worst mindset you can be in, in my opinion, when going through natural labor. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you know, this is bringing my baby in. Yeah. I had that negative mindset. So I have a picture of me just one picture of me holding my baby. When I sat back and my I thought I was smiling, but I was horribly pounding. I looked like I was. Wow. Oh, my God. I thought I was smiling, but I was just wow. weird kind of out of body experience because I kind of my brain had it as this is traumatic. Because that's what I was told that's what labor is. But I knew it was more traumatic going to a hospital. Yeah. But also at this point, like the only the only experience you've had with birth has been traumatic. So I think that's, you know, also in some ways a natural response that your brain then associates that will, you know, this traumatic things happen when you give birth and like, yeah, clearly. Yeah. Yeah. And I was definitely afraid of. Yeah. And I mean, I think it's, I had a total of three and a half or maybe four hours of hard labor. Yeah. And it wasn't terribly hard compared to my other births. His was relatively easy. My last was the easiest, but my postpartum was still really messed up. Anyways, that was his story. It was amazing, though, afterwards. I was on top of the moon that I did it, and my body did it. Um, you know, I was so proud to call my dad and say, dad, you told me I would never be able to give birth naturally. And I just did, you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I had a little bit of a break after him. Um, and my, um, the, August of 2020 is when I got pregnant with our third. Yeah. What's the name? Sasha. It's a girl. Her name is Sasha. And so when did you did you did you give birth to her in 2020? 2021 2021. So I knew I was pregnant right away. And with my girls, I know, like almost the second I get pregnant, I know that I'm pregnant. Yeah, yeah. I was it was it was kind of amazing to know right away because we had had We had a six week miscarriage. I was six weeks along. I don't think it was a viable pregnancy. It was just kind of, it was like, when I passed at six weeks was just kind of like a period. But I had tested positive for pregnancy and then the next week is when I had the miscarriage. And it happened the week of the loft bounce. Oh, wow. And I knew her soul had come to me like I knew I was going to have another girl. I just wasn't ready then. Everything was so stressful. That week we also had to put a dog, one of our dogs down. We had two dogs and it was just horrible. So I was just not ready to have another, carry another baby quite yet. So then. Yeah. Um, when I got pregnant in August, it wasn't a surprise. My husband and I were both wanting to have a third. Yeah. So we were, we weren't trying not to get pregnant basically. Yeah. And, um, I went to a friend's wedding, a childhood friend's wedding. And on my drive there, it was several states away and I drove, um, and. I knew on the drive that I was pregnant and I could, I just, I told my sister cause my friend lives near my sister. I told my sister, I'm like, I know I'm pregnant. I smell different. And my sister's like, you're just being silly. I'm like, no, I know. And then it was way too early for a pregnancy test to be positive, but you know, like, Eventually two weeks later, of course, I got a positive pregnancy test. Yeah. The midwife, she was kind of like with everything that was happening in 2020 and 2021, she was a little more, she just said, you know, just tell me whenever you want care or, you know, she basically said I could dictate how I wanted care in this pregnancy. Yeah. Because in the last one, you know, she saw me once a month after 21 weeks and you know, it's very, like kind of mainstream and this time. So I, um, I visited her three times, uh, that pregnancy just to hear baby's heartbeat. She didn't like our stance that my husband and I were taking with everything that was going on. We're basically like, we don't believe in medical tyranny. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, it got personal. basically during that visit. And she's, she all of a sudden decided I had a placenta previa and that, um, if I didn't get, uh, going to a doctor to get an ultrasound, cause I didn't do an ultrasound this time, um, that she knew for sure it was placenta previa and that I and baby would die in labor. And cause I had mentioned to her, you know, at this point in my life, I, I just not, I don't want cut open. I didn't want a C -section and that meant dying peacefully at home. That was actually something I was willing to do instead of being traumatized again. I'd rather. of let nature take its course and that sounds kind of funny but... No, but I think... I think because there's been a lot of conversation around free birth in Australia in the past week or two. I mean there's the ebbs and flows like the controversy around free birth but you know obviously I personally have not had unassisted births but I... do feel like I know a little bit about the community and certainly it's something that I think more about as well is, you know, this like death and like the acceptance of death. And, you know, when, when they talk about unassisted birth and, you know, free birth, there's, there's always a narrative of like, you know, being irresponsible because you could die or the baby could die or like death and like that's the worst thing ever. And, you know, how could you like, you know, not take all every preventative step towards, you know, that. But there is within the community, like an acceptance of, yeah, like you said, like if that's yeah, like birth works most of the time. Um, especially in physiological, when birth is like left alone, birth usually works. Um, and like this very, very, very tiny chance that you, you die. Like, yeah, at some point we are all going to die. Like, and it would be, it would be so sad. It would be just unspeakably sad and tragic. But I think, yeah, this sort of acceptance does crush your mind, but you know, okay, well, if I'm, I'm accepting of these risks and I accept the consequence, you know, and that's like a personal thing. Like nobody can determine that for you, right? Right. At that time I was already there. So I was already in the free -birthing mindset really. Yeah. But honestly, to me it was, To me, there are things worse than death. Yeah. And like I grew up in a religious cult. I was sexually abused when I was very young. I was just done. I was done with abuse. Yeah. And I wanted control over my body. Yeah. And not having control and be abused sexually and physically harmed. And like to me, that's worse than death. Yeah. And like. consent to it. I just can't consent to that again. And I don't want to watch my baby go through trauma. Yeah. Anyways, I want to do the best thing I can do naturally. And if, if death comes and then so be it, I just, I've gone through enough bullshit in my life that I don't want any more trauma as much as possible, you know? Yeah. Like, anyways, and because I had voiced that to her. that also ticked her off. She's like, no, you need to be willing to let me have say on everything. And I was just like, I remember crying because I was I was very angry. But my my hormones was making me cry because I knew like, she would no longer be in my life. Yeah, at that time, I knew what she was saying. And I was she asked me why I was crying and I didn't know how to word it right. She's like, well, because she thought maybe I felt like I was gonna die, you know, that kind of thing. But I wasn't, I was sad that, you know, she had been in my life for several years and then my family's life. And I knew that from then on, we probably wouldn't talk again because of what she was saying to me. And I was angry and I knew that she was cutting all ties on it. It was just made me sad that she would do that to us. Yeah. And I said, I asked her, I said, well, you know, because baby wasn't head down yet. Okay. Yeah. And I said, if baby goes head down and everything and I can clear up this UTI kidney infection or whatever it is, would you be willing to still attend? She said, well, I'll have to talk to my husband about it, which now I know it was her way of saying, no, she just wasn't being honest with me. Yeah. Um, so I still had a tiny bit that thought maybe she might come around if baby went kind of down. I knew I wasn't going to go to the doctor because they want to, I knew I was going to be harassed about getting the new drugs that they were pushing on everyone and wearing a mask and all this crazy stuff that I was just not, I just didn't want to go through that. Yeah. Um, and I instinctively knew my baby was okay. So. We did spinning babies and we did moxibustion. I don't know if I'm saying it right. But it's basically the hot acupressure. Or I don't know what it's called. But yeah, I don't know too much about it. But I have heard of it before. Yeah. Well, it turned baby. Well, pretty much right away. Oh my goodness. And she went head down. Yeah. Well, once I got, so I started treating myself for the, for UCI, started doing all the things for kidney to flush my kidneys. And even though it was a knee stone, the things can help with that. And within, within a week she had flipped and that head down and it was just cause my bladder was inflamed. So she didn't want to be down there. Yeah. I think she, she, She kept twisting on me. Like I could feel, she would head up one more time at 38 weeks and then she went head down. I was so much, you know, I was talking to her all the time telling her, please, please go head down. Mommy needs you head down. And I think I did have a, like a TIA flare up a little bit again at 38 weeks. That's why she went for each again. And then she went head down. like two days later kind of thing. She was kind of doing somersaults. But once she did that second time, she really went head down. Like I could feel her head. When I went to pee, I could put my hands up. I could feel her head right there through my cervix. It was head down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, instead of, cause we had secretly, we had set aside money for the midwife. We were actually gonna pay her this time. Yeah. And we wanted, uh, cause we had the money. Um, and because she canceled on us, uh, pretty much, she just ghosted me. Once I told her, you know, babies definitely 100 % 38 weeks, they told her babies 100 % that head down. Um, my, I sent her proof with the P strip, uh, the P test strips that my UTI was cleared up. Um, there's no blood in my urine. My ketones were fine. No, everything was fine. Yeah. But then she goes to me. She didn't. Wow. Wow. And I'm keeping my sister like for the listeners, like, you know, you've said, um, previously that like this particular midwife lived like two hours away and like, there's not really like just midwives around that you can easily just get another one, you know? No, no, exactly. Plus she told me that you had to be kind of in the community and on social media for people to kind of trust you enough to like, you got to be in the Facebook groups and all that. And I had deleted my Facebook in between second, third baby, because I was having issues with having left the cult and yeah. Wow. family issues and there was just a lot of trauma that was happening. And I was just like, yeah, it's not worth it. So I'm going to delete my Facebook. So I did. Yeah. But anyways, yeah. So I, you know, at 30, so at 34 weeks we ordered the birthing pool because we realized we probably wouldn't have hers to borrow. Yep. And, um, I started trying to do as much research as I could on what would happen if we didn't have a midwife because there's just, there was just no one really that I knew that I could reach out to for help or any kind of platform that I knew of at the time. So I was just watching all the YouTube videos. I didn't even know about free birth. I remember near the very end, I think it was around 39 weeks. I saw a video of somebody calling it free birth. I thought, that is so cool. Because I was trying to search unassisted home birth, because that's all I knew it was called. And one of the mamas called it, she labeled her video unassisted, but in the video she mentioned she called it free birth. And I was just like, oh my goodness, I love that term, that's amazing. But I didn't know that there was a community, that was growing, you know, at the time because of the COVID restrictions and all all the craziness that was happening in the hospitals. Yeah. We we just kind of thought, you know, we're going to have to do this by ourselves if we don't want to side into the hospital. We were I was still kind of like if both my husband and I when I'm in labor, both agree that. we needed to transfer maybe after I had the baby if there was too much bleeding and I was still like not 100 % die hard. I'm going to die at home, but it was like if I did go to the hospital, I'd have to turn down all these things. I knew I was going to have to, I was going to have a fight. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to go to the hospital. So anyway, so I did as much research as I knew how to do. Um, and. I called my sister because she was certified with like resuscitating babies. I forget this was CPR, infant CPR. She ran an in -home daycare and she was certified with all that. So I felt like that was the most I was worried about. Like I wasn't worried about my body. Yeah, I knew that I would know what to do. But I just didn't know how to navigate the newborn if the newborn came without. Oh, and I forgot this. I didn't know it was a girl. Yeah. At the very beginning, because I knew right away when I was pregnant, I knew I thought it was a girl. Yeah. The midwife assured me that her heartbeat meant that it was a boy. Wow. So, so the midwife had me convinced that it was a boy and I kept having this dream of the, you know, the spirit baby coming to me and talking to me in the stream. Yeah. And it was always like, like, it was kind of funny because it was the baby was like, Oh, look, I've got a penis. But it was like, there was always like, I kind of keep looking and behind this boy was a girl. But I kind of wonder if it was just her humor. She was just kind of like, Well, if you think I'm a boy then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah. Wow. All of that said. I had my sister come in because I felt like I would like to have a little bit more support of somebody that knows how to resuscitate a newborn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I remember I got placenta release tinctures. I got anti -hemorrhage tinctures. And I said, I had the breath pool ready. I set everything up. My sister and I had the best two weeks because she came in after 40 weeks because I was pretty sure I was going to pass my due date, which I did. Yeah. And we paid for a rental car for her to drive out to us. And we paid basically what she would make for during those two weeks of working with her job, we covered her paycheck for her so that financially she could handle it. It was such an amazing time. She helped me organize my house. We just spent time healing and talking about our past. It was magical. It was the most beautiful time. She was a little bit nervous about natural home birth because she'd only had hospital births. Um, but she was excited to help me and, um, and yeah, that, um, at the, the, the, about 24 hours before she needed to go back home. Um, I, like, I was kind of having that on and off labor again, like I had my, my second. So, and so I, um, We did the Rambozo trick where, you know, you shake the belly. Oh yeah. Um, we inverted for a little bit and then we shook the belly with a Rambozo. Yeah. And, um, we watched a movie together. Yeah. And, um, it had a natural unassisted birth in it actually. Oh wow. It's called Mamma Mia. Here we go again. Okay. Yeah. It's a little musical and there's a little free birth in there and it's not. super negative. Yeah. So she was really excited to show me this movie. And she had watched all the episodes of like, call the midwife or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So she she was all excited about it. And we were able to really bond like we'd never before. Wow. Then it was just a magical time, you know, I went into labor. I labored till about like five in the morning by myself. I slept and I tried to let them sleep, but she had spent the whole night cleaning the house top to bottom because she just wanted the house to be perfect when I went into labor. And then she was kind of really tired when I went into it. Cause I woke her up around seven, I think is when I felt like I started needing help. Cause yeah. I labored sometime in our bathtub. So she started rubbing my back and it was my husband and her and my neighbor wanted to come see the birth. Oh, wow. We were making friends with her and she really wanted to come see the birth. And so we rang her up to let her know that I was in labor. And, um, She peeked her head in, but she had to go to work for a few hours and then come back. And around nine o 'clock, I got into the pool and she came in, I think around one and right, that was right before transition hit and she smelled like chlorine. Oh, yeah. I kindly told her to leave. Yeah. Oh, can you just go watch the kids because they're too, because I couldn't handle her smell. Yeah. Part of me felt bad because she really wanted to see birth. Yeah. But I just was not having... No. I don't want to be a show for anybody. Yeah, of course. And that's kind of what she wanted. And anyway, so... Yeah. She would watch my older two kids and transition hit. And I remember saying to my sister, my husband, I was in the pool and leaned over and... I looked at them and I said, I can't do this. And they said, you are doing it. And then I said, shut up. Yeah. Yeah. Don't talk to me. My water didn't break until I started pushing again. I waited till FERS kicked in and the fetal ejaculation reflex. Yeah. And my water broke with the second push, I think. Yeah. And just the, when the guttural sounds and they got all excited. Cause this whole time I was having them pour water on my back because the massage was helping until my back turned raw, even with massaging lotion and stuff. Cause I was really needing them to dig in there and it was working. So then they were pouring water on me. It's funny. Cause when the pushing face hit the water pouring water on me was just not helping. And it was actually distracting, but I didn't, I kind of vocalized it. And they were also like, they saw my water break and they got super excited. So they started like my, my husband was already pouring water on me. And so my sister grabs a bowl and starts just splashing water on my back. I'm just like, this is really over, you know, they were super excited. So it's always nice. So I just kind of let it be. And then, yeah. But so much oxytocin then as well. And like, also, you know, like you're surrounded by safe people, like, you know, like they're there for you, not because, um, you know, they have to be there there for you. And that's, that's really beautiful. The support and love and just like the trust because my sister, 100 % trust in me. And I, I wasn't so 100 % trusting me. And I, husband, he was the first one that said like, why, why do you keep because I kept trying to reach out to the midwife. Yeah. It's like, why keep reaching out to her? You got this? Yeah, he trusted me more. Wow. He's like, she barely that she didn't do anything last time. She just sat there and watched you and then said you were okay. So why? Why do you even need one? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So he was super supportive. And I, I I did feel like I had to face like right before I went into labor, I felt like I had to face this like, because I felt like she had kind of cursed me because she insisted that I was going to die in labor and I felt that curse of death on me. So I had to definitely had to work through that fear. Yeah. But, but yeah. And I remember definitely feeling babies had come out and I was just like, Oh wow, I feel her. This hurts. Yeah. My sister says it's supposed to hurt. And then yeah, okay. Okay. Yeah. I know it's supposed to hurt. I just didn't feel it last time. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then I remember thinking, hearing my body tell me, okay, stop breathing through, you know, wait for your next contraction. Yeah. But the rebel inside me said, I know that the midwife would tell me to stop. So I'm just going to keep pushing. Yeah. Yeah. I was just like, It's always kind of rebellious against my own body to my own intuition. So I tore. I had a third degree tear. I didn't know that until a few days later. Yeah. But I pushed her completely out without a contraction at the end and brought it up to me. And my husband instantly was sobbing. It was like, oh, jumped in the pool and said, you did it. Oh, my sister. instinctively her first reaction was, fuck the hospital. Yeah. Just laughing. Yeah. It was just so beautiful. And I sat back and when my sister says, what's the gender? And it's just like, oh, I didn't even think to look. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My husband had thought that I was like hiding it from him. Like, everybody thought I had saw it. the gender I just wasn't telling anybody. But I wasn't even thinking that yet. I was just happy. I had a beautiful pink perfect baby in my arms. Yeah. And then I looked down it was girl I was shocked because I you know, the midwife was wrong. Yeah. And that was the that was the birth of Sasha. Wow. And so like, you know, having such a, like, that sounds very redemptive, you know, and that that sounds like, you know, Lazarus obviously taught you less, like, you know, less, I guess every birth you have, you have lessons, of course, but, you know, Sasha, that that birth sounds like, well, now you believe you can do it. you know, and you can do it without anybody else. And I didn't have to look to anybody. I knew like her birth, like his Lazarus's birth was okay, my body can do this, but I still didn't feel like my body was okay. Yeah. I don't know why I just, it didn't feel good. But after having Sasha, I, I remember for the first time in my life, looking at my body and loving it. Yeah. And being like, my body is so amazing. And powerful and strong and you create life. And yeah, wow. It was just amazing because you know, I've had body images since I was little. Yeah. So it was just so, so awesome. Yeah. I, you know, I, I didn't feel out of control transition was an issue. I never even thought about the hospital. Um, the placenta came at an hour and 15 minutes. And at the time I didn't know. I only had Dr. Google for the placenta. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Google said that I had an hour to release the placenta. Oh my gosh. So. My sister was like, well, you know, it's been an hour and a half. Maybe we need to get you out of the pool. Try, try different things. Cause I was already, I was starting to get worried about it. Yeah. Um, which I didn't need to be, but the second I stood up and tried to lift my leg up to get over the pool's edge, the placenta just fell out. Yeah. Um, so then after that, I mean, we did delay cord clamping for, uh, four hours. Wow. And proper, proper delay call clipping. Yes. Well, I originally was kind of half considering a Lotus birth, but then after, you know, trying to carry it, it was sent to me and then you were born. I just realized it was just not practical. Very tricky. Yeah. I like full respect to women that do that because yeah, like it's, yeah, it's basically like you got two babies except they're connected. So like. That's very tricky. Well, what's interesting is if I would have done the Loebus birth, her ambilical cord fell off the next morning. Oh, wow. So, yeah, very soon. Yeah. It would have probably just fallen off anyway. So just a few more hours later. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, with her, the placenta came out in one piece. I did have, I passed one large blood clot. Uh, like four hours later, that was about the size of my fist. Yeah. Uh, with, I think it had, it had some trace membranes in it, but, um, after that I was, I was, I felt amazing. Yeah. Even though I did tear horribly and I didn't know that yet until a few days later, um, I started feeling down. It was like two days later, I started feeling around and I was like, Hmm, I don't feel. uh, anything between my vagina, my, my, you know, I said, I asked my husband if he could check for me. Yep. And his first reaction was, Whoa. Oh, I'm sorry, honey. I didn't mean to scare you. Yeah. And we're like, well, I guess we'll just, I just decided to do bed rest and I, I had to, properly bed rest for eight weeks. My body really kind of forced it on me. Yeah. But my husband was out of work time, so it was fine. He took care of the older kids and I stayed in bed and everything healed up just fine. I didn't have. Wow. It actually closed itself back up. So, yeah. You know, I know some women say it didn't. it didn't close for them. But for me, I didn't do any stitches or anything other than bed rest. And I had very little postpartum depression. I still kind of had a little bit of hormonal imbalance, I think. But I could take care of my baby and love my baby and not stress about it. So yeah, that was very nice. Yeah. Wow. That was, that was her bro. That's Sasha. And then like going for baby number four and five, like, I mean, you know, you can do it. Did you have any doubt? What, what is baby number four? What's their name? Okay. Well, baby number four was a little bit humbling for me. Yeah. Because. then I was just like, Oh, it's all that. Yeah. Yeah. So then I just really focused on trying to do trying to learn about pain free birth. And then I also learned, like, because I've heard the free birth term, I started Googling that. Yeah. I started hearing the free birth stories. And I got the book. Home Birth on Your Own Terms. Okay, yeah. Because I kind of, I pretty much just gonna have another free birth. So I got that book, I really wanted to be more, more prepared, like over prepared. And so I decided, you know what, if I can't find a midwife, because I did actually try to seek out a midwife or I still couldn't find one. I one was willing to do it virtually and that was about it. So, well, my area. So then I was just like, well, I will be my own midwife then. Yeah. And so I wanted to learn everything I needed to learn and more so that I can feel comfortable in being my own midwife and all the emergency situations. So, yeah, well, I did a lot of book work with him and I was just like, I have this amazing orgasmic birth. And I actually did. I, um, with him, I had my own fetal doctor and well, see, the problem is I didn't know my, I had had a period in September and then, um, I didn't get a positive, I got a positive test November 21st, the 22nd, cause it was the day after my birthday and. My kids were out playing catching waves because it's fall around that time in the state that we were in. And I actually had this like really spiritual experience where I was really sad that my energy was low. I wasn't, I didn't know I was pregnant yet. And it was that first trimester kind of low. Yeah. And I. So I couldn't run around trying to catch leaves for the kids. And I was sad about it. And I just didn't have energy. So I like out of just nowhere, I said, you know, trees, if you could, could you please send leaves my way? Yeah. And then one hit me in the face. Wow. Freaky. And then they started landing all over me. And it was kind of like the wind wasn't helping. Like the wind was going a different direction. Yeah. Yeah. Husband saw it. And he was just like, I can't believe this is working for you. And then, so he says, let me try it. So he sits down at a different place and he says, uh, trees, would you throw your leaves toward me? And then all of a sudden they started falling all around him. It landed right on his stomach. Even. Wow. We just had this kind of like kind of extraterrestrial experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like the trees were trying to like, instead of us playing the game, catch the leaves, the trees were playing a game to see how close they could get their leaves towards us. Yeah. Which is just, I don't know. It's just really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like they were celebrating the new life that I didn't know I quite had. But then I went in and took a pregnancy test because it kind of dawned on me that I was feeling sluggish. Yeah. Maybe this could be possibly. And then it was positive. But the one. interview I kind of had with a midwife. She said my estimated due date was May 30th, I think. My guess date was mid -June. Like June 11th is what I was guessing. What's the name of this little boy? His name is Enoch and he didn't come till mid -July. Yeah, okay. So... Um, I like, at the end of June, like during June, I thought, well, try to like black and blue cohosh and try to get things going. Cause I felt like I was like full term. Yeah. And I felt really big and he, he was just bouncing around in there. And, um, then I realized, you know, you know, once you. I hit like 44 or 45 weeks. So like, maybe I didn't get my guest date right. I didn't have any scans or anything go by. I had a fetal Doppler so I could hear his heart rate. So I was like, I just stopped all trying. Yeah. Of course, I had told everybody my due date was sometime in June. So he's like, where's the baby? I was. We were in a different state than we are now. We were in North Carolina at the time. And the town that we lived in is a small, it was still a small town. So everybody that knew me, like in the different stores and stuff were like, Oh, you're still pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. I guess my due date's off. Yeah. And, um, you know, they look at me kind of funny because you're supposed to know your due date. Yeah. Of course you're meant to know the date. I am. Yeah. So, um, it technically, according to the original midwives guests, I was 47 weeks when I went into labor with him, but I'm pretty sure I was probably 42 weeks, maybe at the most. Cause he had a lot of verdicts on him and the placenta was in great shape. Um, but, uh, with him, it was super humbling because my water broke. It was kind of like Zelda started. on a Saturday morning, which was her birthday was on the 23rd of July and on the 23rd of July this time is when my water broke. Yeah. Wow. And we kind of had a laugh because I actually didn't have a gush. It was in bed. I rolled over to get up to go pee and I felt the pop and I woke my husband up and he ran and got a towel for me and we were laughing. We're like, of course it would be on Zelda's birthday because Zelda's very, like, she's a very independent child and what's hers is hers kind of thing. Yeah. I kind of whispered the baby, I said, you know, it's okay if you wait another day. She doesn't want to share. I know Zelda, she probably wouldn't like to share her birthday. Yeah. And So we had her birthday party. I had everybody leave a little early because my waters were open and I was having on and off really light contractions and just noticeable tightness kind of thing. Yeah. And then I had a really good sleep that night. And by the next evening, I told my husband, you know, I was trying to get things going. So I did. I actually did a pelvic. floor release. Okay, yeah. Exercise. Yeah. And my husband, I did the inversion and my husband did the ramboso again. And then labor did start up again. So then we went to bed real quick because you know, we knew we needed more sleep. If anything, rest is great for. Yeah, so absolutely. We slept and then I think around it kind of felt like it was doing what Sasha did, you know, because by sunrise it was starting to get unbearable, well, uncomfortable. Because this time around I was really doing the relaxing through and letting them come instead of fighting it. So instead of tensing, I was really trying to relax my body through them. And then I remember, like I self, like I, Um, like I massage my clitoris a lot through the connections and it was really helpful. And I was actually like kind of almost orgasmic and by 10 in the morning, I checked my cervix and I knew I was fully dilated. And I looked at my husband and I'm like, Oh my goodness, I'm going to have this baby really soon. This is exciting. Like I started laughing. I was so happy and excited and I could feel his head up behind. my pelvic bone. Yeah, I could feel it. I knew I was fully open. I might have had I don't think I even I don't think I had a really but then noon came and maybe wasn't here. Yeah, things were I was starting to feel like the contractions were hitting a wall. So I got out. I had a lot of pressure on my my anus. So I I released some poop and I got out and was able to poop in the toilet. Did some contractions standing up and sitting down and then trying to lay on a bed that I hated the bed felt like I couldn't move because I felt so big that I couldn't move if I wanted to on the bed. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I remember at noon, we called for my mother -in -law to come watch the kids. Yeah. Because I felt like, uh, we needed another set of hands. And I said to my husband, I said, make sure she knows not to like come back and look at me. I don't want to see her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I said, you know, the neighbor was willing to help with this one as well. She really wanted to see a birth. But yeah, I said, you know, call the neighbor, I think we're going to need because he was starting to get super tired. And Like we, we might need a second pair of hands. So call her. And then I think it was two o 'clock came around and I still thought, I felt like I was just the contractions were coming and they were coming every seven minutes. So they weren't stopping, but it made last two to five minutes, but it just didn't feel quite right. And then, um, so I actually, I had tried to join some free birth groups on Facebook because I had by then made a new Facebook. And I hadn't been accepted yet and we have the groups. So I actually messaged a midwife that was a free birth supporter on Instagram that I was friends with. I really didn't know. I just followed her, you know? But I had Mark message her and say, basically, I, I apologize for reaching out, you know, like in the middle of labor, but I didn't, I didn't have any birthing groups to talk to or anything. And I said, you know, is there anything I could do? Like what could be wrong? Cause I fully dilated, I know I'm fully dilated and baby isn't going anywhere. So she recommended going on your hands and knees while doing a side contraction and then another side of contraction, like floating in the pool on one side and then on the other side. And then on your hands and knees because I'd been in a lunge squat for so long, but it kind of, I think things were kind of starting to swell a little bit because yeah, of course, you, but every time I tried to push it, it didn't feel right. So I didn't like I wasn't putting, I refused to put like effort into that. And I also remember I was sleeping on and off in between contractions. Yeah. And I, um, So she, she, she made a few recommendations for positions, but then she also said, it could just be that you need more time. And that was kind of like a bitch slap to my face. Cause I was like, well, you know what? Women go through labor for several days. I just get that mindset. Cause I was starting to get that. Do I need to go to the hospital type? Yeah. The doubt. I knew I was fully dilated. So I was what's going on. Yeah. Um, And I was kind of in that transition mindset where I really couldn't see how things really were. And then I was like, am I fully that? Like I was questioning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, um, so I did the side, uh, I did, I floated on my side, on my left side, and then on my right side during each contraction. Um, and then I did a hands and knees contraction. I felt something move and I think his, he was able to move his hand. I think he had it up by his face. And then all of a sudden the contractions felt like they were right on, like they were doing something again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Then I feel, I felt him kind of walk into place. Yeah. And then, um, it came to, it gave me that like boost of energy that I needed. Like, okay, this feels like the, something's happening even. And then, um, so I had him at 6 15 PM. So, um, I, I remember at six o 'clock is when I started pushing. My pushing phases are always really short, like three or four pushes at the most. Wow. But I got his head out and, um, Then I waited for the next contraction. I was patient this time and I pushed his body out, but it stopped at around his belly button. And then I felt this like, like after, right after I got his head out, I started feeling the sharp pain up at the top. And I knew the placenta was at the top this time. I could hear it with the Doppler. And I felt this really sharp pain that didn't stop. after the contraction. And then I thought, I just need to get this baby out. So with the next contrast been coming, I pushed baby and then I felt something like tension. So I just bear down even harder. And I felt like a rubber band snap in my vagina, but I, I didn't quite know what was going on, but baby shot out of me like a rocket. And I grabbed him, I pulled him up. I didn't tear, but I pulled him to my chest. We looked at the gender. It was a boy. We were excited, but then I had a contraction just hit me like pretty much right after that. So I said, yeah, take the baby. So he was prepared to get in the tub to, um, to hold the baby, to hold him. Yeah. And he's like, okay, where's, where's the cord? And we looked down and the cord was cut. Wow. Like two inches from his belly button. Wow. Wow. Oh my goodness. Um, we were just like, Oh, and it was completely white. There was no bleeding. We were like, he cut his own cord. We were all prepared to have this delayed cord clamping. Yeah. Wow. Oh my goodness. Yeah. You know, he cut his own cord. Yeah. And I think I wonder that if that like, he, I think he had to be in just the right position that I had to be in just the right position to birth him, but he came out perfectly pink. You know, we weren't worried. That's why we, we didn't check the court because he looked amazing and beautiful. Yeah. Instantly alert and crying. And, um, he was a little bit raspy. Um, but about an hour after I breathed, he spit up, um, some something or another. Yeah. It was just clear fluid. He spit that up. He was fine. He was a raspy anymore. And so I think if I would have had that meeting in the hospital, I would have for sure had a C -section because... Oh my gosh, that would have been like a... Yeah. That is like, wow, I was not expecting that. So how long did it take for the placenta? Like, what did you do? I'm so curious. Were you... Was that like a panic or like, oh my goodness. Well, we were like, well, baby's fine. The cord is white. We checked to make sure it wasn't bleeding. We did clamp his cord just to make sure he didn't bleed out or anything, but it wasn't bleeding even. It was just like, we were speechless, honestly. Yeah. And the placenta, that contraction where I like doubled over and like, honey, take the baby. Yeah. Um, was the placenta. So the placenta had ripped off the wall of my uterus. Wow. Um, so then I kind of went in like, cause when I pulled the placenta out of, cause it, it too much fell out of me, but, um, when I took it up out of the water, I knew, for sure that it was only like half the placenta. I can just tell. So then I said, okay, I need to get out of the water. I need to lay flat because I had studied for a few hemorrhaging stuff and I knew I was bleeding. So I laid flat. I had him lay the baby next to me so I could have the baby on my chest while I massaged my belly. I just instinctively did. a fundal massage without even like, you know, I was doing it to myself. I wasn't harming myself. So I massaged my belly and kind of like what I had read on how to like, if you are having a little bit of a hemorrhage, how to stop, try to help that wound close up. So I just kind of went into like, kind of, I don't know, I felt like I kind of went into badass mode and was just like, yeah. instantly taking care of myself. So yeah, I had him giving me anti -hamar stature. And I had a womb strange. So I was taking that and every five minutes under the tongue and I felt a heaviness in my womb. So I was like, okay, I need to go to the bathroom and go sit on the toilet. Yeah. And so I got up. I was losing blood, but I wasn't, I don't think I was hemorrhaging at all. I was, I didn't feel weird or anything. So, but I knew I had more placents at the past. I mean, like, this was kind of something I needed to really take care of. So I walked to the bathroom and right before I got my bum on the toilet, everything fell out. It was right in front of the toilet. Oh my goodness. There was a huge splash. And then I got a little bit like the, there was a few blood clots I did get in the toilet because I was on my way sitting. Yeah. But so thankfully my sweet husband cleaned that up for me. Wow. Oh my goodness. He said it was gross but I was out. Oh my goodness. And so after that I, you know, everything was passed and I could tell the bleeding calmed down and I could rest. Like I knew instinctively listening to my body that, you know, I was now able to rest. Like I didn't need to be in like self-prep for, you know, I didn't need to worry anymore. So yeah. Yeah. And did you happen in the shower and cleaning off and stuff? Yep. Yeah. Did you, um, tear again? Because obviously with Sashi had the third degree tear. Did that, did anything happen with tears? No, I didn't tear. I think I had some minor, like, um, when the cord snapped in my vagina, I guess what they would call it skid marks or something like that. I remember I was slightly sore there. Yeah. Um, like a rug burn type feel inside my vagina, but I didn't tear. I didn't have any excess bleeding. Um, everything was just great. Like within two weeks I was back to doing normal stuff. Wow. Um, so, Oh my goodness. Like what a, yeah, that definitely humbled you. Cause I was thinking, um, you know, like she's had Sasha and now she's like a goddess and you know, everything's just easy, but like, Wow, that's like, I mean, yeah, like, like, not like birth, every birth is different. Yeah, and I kind of honestly, it was humbling and the fact that I was like, proud. So like, why would anybody even get to a place where they're having a home birth and then all of a sudden they would want to transfer? Why would that even happen? And then I have this like, prolonged dilate, you know, I was fully dilated for about six hours. Yeah. And, it was very humbling for me. I'm like, okay, I get it. Yeah, yeah. I get the exhaustion. I get all the feelings, you know, I knew I wasn't too exhausted. I, you know, I was able to drink honey and lemon water. I chewed on a piece of toast, I wasn't able to swallow it because I get super nauseous and in labor. Yeah, but it had jam on it. So it was like, I was still getting, you know, my sugar levels. Yeah. Yeah. Everything was fine. So I didn't need to transfer, but if I would have transferred everything would have gone to hell in a hand basket. Oh my gosh. It would have been so different. What happened was his placenta was super high and he had a 12 inch cord. So, and I have a very tall, torso. My torso is like 11 inches. 12 inches. So it's, it's like, no, actually, I recently was like, trying to find a stomach binder wrap or something. I measured it was like 22 inches from like under my breast to my waist. So it's pretty long. Yeah. Waist wise and I got short legs. So, so I think, He just, it just logistically, it was just not long enough. Yeah. But it was just long enough not, you know, there's no complications there. But like I said, we did clamp it to make sure he didn't bleed out. And then we, cause we messaged the midwife, she's like, because on court, she's like, wow, that's super rare. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. She reminded us to clamp it. So that's why we did. Yeah. Um, I was just, you know, happy. He was perfect. He didn't have any problems. Um, nursing and, um, yeah, that was the first with him. It was the first time I ever did not have any kind of even hint of postpartum depression. Like, yeah. Um, which was such a night and day difference that it was really, um, really amazing to be able to take care of my baby, even in overwhelming times when he's crying or clustering, beating and just still having the happy hormonal cold in my baby. And you're like, it's okay, I'll take care of you. It just felt amazing. So yeah, that was beautiful. And then, um, yeah, just, just a shorter overview with, with her, she, um, her, her pregnancy, I did have like a gallbladder flare up, but I was able to treat that naturally. And, it calmed down and then she was my super, super sweet, fast, easy birth. I had some anxiety going in because Enoch's was so long in the intense part of it. So with her, I just, we set up the birthing poll. I think she kind of held on pretty long. Yeah, because I remember when we were going to record and then, um, then yeah, you, it was like, Oh, she's still not here yet. She's still not here yet. Um, so I, yeah, I've remembered being like, Oh, like, like, you know, you've got four other little kids and, um, yeah, just the anticipation of like, when will she be here? Well, I had really put in the trust when it comes to, Enoch, I feel like he came at the perfect time. And if I wanted to, if I wanted to have been trusting the process enough, I would have tried to force him to come. Yeah, it would have complicated things that I really realized that, you know, you just need to let it be and baby and your body, they know. Yeah. They they know how to, how to have birth. Yeah, just let it happen. So then with with her. I was just trying to trust the process. It was kind of overwhelming. I feel like she went pretty long because her placenta was a little bit calcified and she did have meconium. Yeah. And I didn't know any of that until, you know, her water didn't break until I was pushing again. So that wasn't really anything. But, um, Yeah, her I when labor did finally start. I had for like 40 hours before I was starting to have a bloody show. So that was exciting. And then I knew things were happening. And then that because I went into labor at like 2 p .m. Saturday. But it was just like the early labor. It was super simple. Like I didn't need to really vocalize or stop in between. that and it wasn't until midnight that I started having to actually vocalize through them. So it was just like, I felt like baby was a little off. So I did some things to help her kind of cause she was in my right hip and her head was like in my right hip. I could feel a pain in my right hip. So, um, her head, um, she finally shifted after we kind of helped encourage her, you know, I was talking to her throughout the whole thing. And then, um, yeah. We, um, I thought it was going to be all night and then into the next day. So I told Mark to go to take a nap on the couch and I was going to go do the hard work in the bedroom. Yeah. Try to let him sleep so that he could be ready for the, the, the long haul is what I thought. So then, um, he, um, he went to take a nap. We had water on the stove. The pool was filled up. The house was at like 85 degrees because of the moisture in the air. Yeah, yeah, because we were feeding our house with wood anyways. And so I went to the bedroom and I was on my hands and knees for an hour and I was watching the clock. It was really actually helping me watching the clock was helping me gauge when I'd have a traction. You have five minute break in between each one and each one was five minutes. And then. It right in the middle of it. I remember asking God for a sign, even though, you know, I've had all these births just fine. And I opened the Bible and it said, um, just that it ran a place and I'm not super religious, but anyways, I, it said, um, and there shall be no sign given to me. That was the first thing I read. And I was just like, Oh, well, I felt like it was spirit telling me. You don't need a sign. You've already done this before. Just, just do it. Just get it. You know, just. do the hard thing. So then I just kind of, I was resting in between the contractions on the bed and then I'd stand up and I'd go in the bathroom and lean over the sink during the contraction or I'd sit on the toilet because I knew that would help with dilation. And, you know, four short hours of that, I all of a sudden, you know, I had a goal in my head to try not to get in the pool until six because I didn't want to be waterlogged like I was with my last pregnancy. Yeah, last breath. I felt really wild. I was in there for so long. Yeah. Okay. So I said, you know, I called for the honey at like five, five fifteen to start getting the pool ready warm. And by five twenty, I walked into the bathroom and had another contraction and I started having to squat with each contraction. It was just involuntary. it was just happening. And then my water just broke on the bathroom floor, just splat. And I said, honey, come, the baby's coming. There's no time. Stop resting. He comes running and he's like, do you want help with the pool? And I kind of had this like, do I want to have this baby on land? I didn't have any plans to have the baby in land. I kind of didn't want to move. And I kind of stopped. I don't know what I did. Oh. He's like, honey, I can help you get to the pool. You know, let's, let's, let's get to the, to the water. And so I said, okay, let's do it. And so we, we beeline to the bowl, which was, you know, just a few steps away, but you know, moving when you're babies right there is kind of hard, but I, I flopped into the pool and splash the whole room. Yeah. And then I had him jump in and. put counter pressure on my, um, my tail bone. Yeah. And, um, I pushed and, um, baby's head came out. I said the heads here. I breathed and then, um, I pushed again and her whole body came out and then she floated towards my husband, but her, her foot was still stuck. So I said, Hey honey, could you help me pull the baby out? She's. just really gently. Um, she's here. So he, he reached down and he kind of just gently pulled while I pushed just a tiny bit foot plopped out, which was just a straight kind of a strange, unique thing. And, um, then she, he passed her through and I sat back and, um, and then, um, I had about 15 minutes and then contraction started and. Um, I passed the placenta pretty quickly, but it was super rocky and it felt like it might not all be there. So then the next three hours, I, I was kind of like, I went and took a shower. I, I breastfed, um, I sat up and then I laid down and I breastfed twice. And then I went to the shower and I squatted and I passed, passed a bunch of blood clots and then, um, went to the toilet and passed one big. last like trace membranes I've got again. Yeah. And I tucked into bed and had a little bit of a nap and then the kids got to wake up and meet the baby. Yeah. What's her name? That was my last I finally had a quick birth. All my other ones were kind of a little bit on, you know, nine and 15 hours. Yeah. Whatever. So that was exciting. What's her name? Her name is, um, Bashti. Ooh, how do you spell that? V -A -A -B -A -C -E. My brain needs to write V -A -S -H -T -I. Um, it's actually in the Bible, uh, she's the queen that refused to go naked in front of the king and his friends. Wow. And we, we liked that. Like she said, no to the government and even her husband, you know, like was like, no, this is my body. I'm not going to be muted. And then Esther came in. So it's in the book of Esther. But yeah, we really liked her kind of power story. Yeah. So we called it Vashjie Elvira. Yeah. And she's she has been my she is such an easy baby. My best nurse. Um, she's already mostly sleeping through the night. Oh my goodness. What the heck? Well, yeah, I mean, and it's, she's sleeping, she's, she's such a healthy baby and she's sleeping like six hours each night. So my, my, my menstrual cycles are already back. So, um, I'd like to take a break. We want a big kick away, but. I kind of need a break. It's been three years to pregnancy and nursing without a break. So, yeah. Wow. That's my story. I know it's a bit, I'm sorry about that. No, no, but like so, like just so many lessons and, you know, like, yeah. I mean, even every time I listen to a story or, you know, stories, um, I'm continuously learning things and like you had five quite different births despite four of them being at home. They were all quite different and I just like because you're in the hospital system, the medical system. You know, we put women into, you know, these categories of low risk and high risk. We we lose the variation and we lose the skills on how to, you know, approach the variation because, you know, like like we both said, you know, the the cord snapping like that would have been an emergency. Like, who knows what would have happened? Well, I feel like if I would have had to go monitor, maybe he would have. Like he didn't come out with any signs of the stress, but maybe it might've been a little bit stressful at the very end for him. And maybe they would've tried to push him back up to do a C -section because I didn't know that happens. I don't think the cord was short enough to be able to have been caught on an ultrasound even. But if I would've been on my back trying to push the baby out, I mean, it could've possibly made it, to wear either a C -section or he might've passed if I would've, because compression on the cord, you know, if I would've been on my back trying to push that baby out, it just wouldn't have happened. I was standing the very last contraction to help him get out. And I think that really helps because, you know, that's a good position to not put compression on a cord. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you've taught me so, so much, Crystal. I just, I'm so grateful, you know, for sharing these stories and other people are going to listen to these stories. And, um, you know, for most of your births, like you weren't even connected to the home birth, let alone free birth kind of community that's out there now. And I think that's really powerful because, you know, you trusted yourself and. Like, especially, you know, like I said, there's been a lot of discussion and somewhat controversy around free birth in Australia, at least recently, and how, you know, this kind of narrative that women are being. groomed into choosing free birth and they're being influenced to choose free birth. But for you, like free birth just came up naturally. Like that was just something naturally that you were drawn to. It wasn't because you'd seen it on Instagram or Facebook or your doula was trying to, you know, pressure you into doing that. Like that's what you chose to do. And yeah, I'm just, yeah, really grateful for you sharing. five incredible births for, you know, one reason or another, I think, yeah, you should be really, really proud of yourself and your body. Yeah, it's definitely been a growing experience for me. And it's just a, you know, women's bodies can do it. You know, with my last, I was 320 pounds with Enoch, I was 340 pounds ish. And that's another factor that they put in. They say, you're too heavy to give naturally. And, but I've been really trying to focus on nutrition, having really good quality food and not be too sedentary. And, you know, I know my body will lose the weight when it's ready. It's not ready right now. But it's just trusting and just not letting it get. too complicated, but also preparing. I did a lot of preparing, a lot of studying. I didn't go into this blindly. I wanted to be able to take care of emergency situations if need be. Yeah. And yeah, I think it was, it's been an amazing several years. It's been great for me, but yeah. Yeah. Well, my baby's pressing T, so I felt she could go. Yes. What time is it there now? 322. Oh my goodness. Yes, definitely. Thank you so much for talking. And yeah, I'll talk to you on Instagram.