Episode 28 is shared by Madi a first time mum that trusted her body and birth so much that she freebirthed with her first baby. Madi discusses her decision to freebirth as a first time mum, her initial fears, and what helped her overcome and work with her fears. This is a great example of trusting your self, your body and trusting your intuition.
Links:
CHAPTERS
01:24
Madi's Decision to Free Birth
03:07
Overcoming Fears and Making the Decision
04:00
Gaining Support from Madi's Husband
04:27
Deepening the Desire for Free Birth
06:18
The Impact of Contraception on Birth Choices
07:14
Challenging Stereotypes about Free Birth
08:12
Addressing Fears and Concerns
09:11
Working through Fears of Death
09:39
Educating Herself on Birth
10:35
Informal Birth Education
11:33
The Impact of Birth Stories and Conversations
12:29
The Long Process of Learning and Unlearning
13:27
Connecting with the Spirit Baby
14:25
Trusting Instincts and Avoiding Regret
15:21
The Black and White View of Birth Choices
16:17
Negative Experiences with the Hospital System
21:03
Reactions from Family and Friends
23:29
The Ripple Effects of Free Birth in the Community
25:22
Positive and Negative Responses to Free Birth
27:16
Engaging with the Hospital System
29:04
Pregnancy and Job Loss
32:16
Resting and Preparing for Birth
35:09
Preparing Partner for Birth
37:27
Early Signs of Labor
39:23
Laboring at Home
46:56
Pushing Phase
51:15
Crowning and Birth
56:51
Birthing the Placenta
01:04:04
Postpartum Experience
Episode 28 is shared by Madi a first time mum that trusted her body and birth so much that she freebirthed with her first baby. Madi discusses her decision to freebirth as a first time mum, her initial fears, and what helped her overcome and work with her fears. This is a great example of trusting your self, your body and trusting your intuition.
Links:
CHAPTERS
01:24
Madi's Decision to Free Birth
03:07
Overcoming Fears and Making the Decision
04:00
Gaining Support from Madi's Husband
04:27
Deepening the Desire for Free Birth
06:18
The Impact of Contraception on Birth Choices
07:14
Challenging Stereotypes about Free Birth
08:12
Addressing Fears and Concerns
09:11
Working through Fears of Death
09:39
Educating Herself on Birth
10:35
Informal Birth Education
11:33
The Impact of Birth Stories and Conversations
12:29
The Long Process of Learning and Unlearning
13:27
Connecting with the Spirit Baby
14:25
Trusting Instincts and Avoiding Regret
15:21
The Black and White View of Birth Choices
16:17
Negative Experiences with the Hospital System
21:03
Reactions from Family and Friends
23:29
The Ripple Effects of Free Birth in the Community
25:22
Positive and Negative Responses to Free Birth
27:16
Engaging with the Hospital System
29:04
Pregnancy and Job Loss
32:16
Resting and Preparing for Birth
35:09
Preparing Partner for Birth
37:27
Early Signs of Labor
39:23
Laboring at Home
46:56
Pushing Phase
51:15
Crowning and Birth
56:51
Birthing the Placenta
01:04:04
Postpartum Experience
Hi, welcome to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys. I'm a mental health nurse, a home birth advocate broadly, but also more specifically in the state of Victoria and I'm an ex -student midwife. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have been birthing at home. country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledged that sovereignty has never been ceded. Episode 28 is a first -time mum free birth story from southeast Melbourne mum Maddie. Maddie discusses her decision to free birth as a first -time mum, her initial fears and what helped her overcome and work with her fears. This is a great example of trusting yourself, your body and trusting your intuition. Enjoy! Welcome Maddie to Birthing at Home, a podcast. Hi, thank you so much for having me. Of course, even through technical issues and now Frankie's crying. What I get you to do Maddie is just introduce yourself, give a little bit of background about who you are, where you live, who's in your family. Yeah, sure. So I'm Maddie. I live with my husband, Josh, in Southeast Melbourne. and we have an 18 month old daughter and at the moment I am staying at home to look after her. Yeah, amazing. And you had your daughter at home at free birth, right? I did, yeah, we free birthed her. Yeah, amazing. I guess, like I've talked about this before that, you know, first time mum's birthing at home. even with a midwife is like pretty rare, but like a free birth for your first time, that's like pretty incredible. How did you, like, how did you know about free birth, home birth, all of that stuff, especially as a first time mom? Yeah. So I basically, um, back in 2019, when I came off the pill, I started down this whole natural path and, uh, natural birth control. And then that just led me to learning about, birth just from following different Instagram pages and it ended up leading me to learning about birth in the hospital system and all the trauma that the women suffer. So I did a lot of unlearning and learning about physiological birth. I started listening to a lot of birth stories and the best stories I was mainly listening to were about hospital births and then occasionally there'd be a home birth story and I loved them so much more. I found them so much more empowering and less trauma. So I was like, well, I want, I'd rather that. And then, you know, learn to trust in the process of birth and in my body. So I went to my husband and I said, you know, when we eventually have a baby, I want it to be a home birth. And he said, yep, cool. No worries. your birth, you can do whatever you want. And then I kept listening to home birth stories, stopped listening to hospital births and then started researching midwives, started researching dollars and I picked who I was going to have when I eventually became pregnant. And then occasionally free birth stories would pop up. in the podcast that I was listening to. And I remember thinking, oh my God, these women are crazy. Who would do this? Like, and just being so amazing, just shocked. But at the same time, as I kept listening, I just, the stories that they would tell and the way that they talked about how it made them feel, I was like, if having a home birth with midwives makes you feel this powerful, then imagine just doing it by yourself. and that resonated with me so much deeper. And I went to my husband and I said, I've been listening to free birth stories. I think it's what I would like to do. And I explained to him what it was. And at first he said, absolutely not, because he had a lot of fears. And I understood it and I wasn't set on it at that point either. So I said, yeah, that's okay. Like it was just an idea. But then I couldn't even listen to free birth stories anymore because it made me feel sad that I wasn't gonna have that. And I really sat with that and I thought, you know, this is the whole point of why I want to free birth. I don't want someone telling me what to do. And right now, if I let my husband say, no, you can't free birth, I'm letting him tell me what to do. So I went to him and I sat him down and I said, when we have a baby, I am going to free birth. And I want you to support me on that. And I want you to really be there for me. but I'm not asking, I'm telling you that this is what we're doing. And that was sort of like my first lesson of I need to stand up for myself here and ask for what I want. And also we weren't, I wasn't even pregnant at this time yet, but we were trying. And I really felt like my daughter led me to learning about free birth because I would go on long walks and I would talk to, you know, the spirit baby and. say, you know, we're going to have a home birth and I've interviewed the midwives and she didn't come through and I didn't get pregnant until I discovered free birth. Wow. So I really feel like she led me there and was like, I'm not going to come into the world until you realize that having midwives or a daughter at your birth is not the path for you that you need to. there's something else. Yeah. Wow. That is so incredible. I think like going back the fact that, you know, like the pill and the creation of contraception has been amazing for family planning, of course. Yes. For so many reasons. But I think with so many, many things like the medical maternity system is that we've gone like too far in that direction. Yeah. And we need to find the balance again, because yeah, I, you know, it was only a couple of years ago that I learned about like how contraception like essentially like fucks up your body. And like how disruptive it is to like the natural process. And it's also, yeah, like it's like this magic pill or magic medication that... you know, it stops something that's so integral to like how you are as a woman. I think like it's so amazing that you found home birth and free birth this way because like that just speaks to how much more in touch with who you are and your body. And like those are the people that choose free birth and home birth because like they want to have that connection to their body. Yeah, that's pretty incredible. Thank you. Yeah, I feel like there's this idea that anyone who free births must be someone who has a previous birth trauma. Yeah. Which obviously for me is just it's not the case, but it was listening to other women's stories of birth trauma in hospital settings. And even when I was listening to home birth stories with midwives, I ended up hearing a lot of stories with women who were feeling really let down by the midwives saying things like I thought I could trust this woman. She said she was all for. everything natural, blah, blah, blah, but ended up railroading my birth experience. And I realized, you know, even when I was interviewing midwives, I was saying to them, I just want you in another room. I don't want you there. I want you there just in case. But when I really leant into that and did the work and like worked out what I actually wanted them there for, I realized I didn't actually need them there for anything specific. I just had to do the work to work out. I had to work out what, you know, what were my fears, like what scared me about birth. And I had to work out then how would I, you know, how would I address those things that come up, the variations of normal, or if in the unlikely event of an emergency, what would we do? And once I worked all that out and realized that it wasn't as complicated as it first seems, then it felt fine. Yeah. Did you have, I guess even before you became pregnant, did you have any particular fears that came up and that you had to work through? Death. Well, for my husband, it was what if me or the baby died and he felt like he hadn't done anything to, he hadn't done the right thing to help. For me, that was a little thing, but I kind of worked through it. very quickly. For me, it was mainly, what if I end up transferring to hospital and I don't get the experience that I wanted because I gave up and I didn't believe in myself or I didn't know something and then I ended up transferring. That was the big thing for me. I didn't want to regret if I gave up on it. But then I heard a really amazing quote from, can I drop a name of like a - of course. from the Authentic Birthkeeper on Instagram. She said, either in a pod, I think it was in a podcast that she was on as a guest. She said, like, all you have to do is stay at home and the baby's gonna come out. It was something like that. Like, you will birth your baby, you just have to stay home. And I thought, well, that's easy enough, I can do that. So, I heard that in like the last few weeks of my pregnancy and that really helped me just realize, because that was my fear. What if, what if I give up and I just transfer? So I thought, if I just stay at home, the baby's going to come out. Yeah. So I'll just stay at home. And that, that kind of just solved that fear for me. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Did you, um, like, did you like engage in any particular, like, like education or anything, um, before or during your pregnancy? I did buy the free birth society course and I started it but it was mainly about the stuff that I looked at of theirs when I started the course was just like the about the testing and the common diagnoses that women who would get in the hospital system and why it wasn't necessary for me to get those tests. I didn't even get into the actual birth stuff. Wow. The birth education that I did was more informal and was more... me listening to other women's birth stories, particularly free birth stories and reading books like and listening to anything by Dr. Sarah Buckley and her birth physiology. I love her work. But yeah, it was mainly just reading books and listening to birth stories and conversations with midwives. people who have juggling, yes. And any work from women who, you know, natural birth physiology and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's amazing. I think that's also quite unique that like, yeah, I guess with free birth, I mean, home birth, sure, but like, if you're having a home birth, like you're generally having like a midwife that can, you know, guide you through all of this education on how. birth works, you know, but like to have a free birth for your first baby, especially like that's like so amazing that you were able to get all of that information and education just through your own research. Yeah, it wasn't something that I did, you know, as soon as I got, it wasn't like, okay, I'm three months pregnant, now I'm gonna research. It was something that I did for. Two years before I even got pregnant, I started immersing myself in that world. So it was a long process of me learning and unlearning and then learning about the natural birth and how I actually wanted to birth. So it was a long process. It wasn't just, yeah, a quick, oh yeah, I'm gonna do a quick course online that goes for a couple of weeks or. um, you know, attend a few classes or read two books while I'm pregnant. It was a really long process so that I really, truly, I really, I really deeply believed in, um, and trusted in birth and in my body and in my baby. We, uh, had like a conscious conception and I connected with, uh, my spirit baby a lot. And so I would talk to her a lot and you know, it was something that I really worked on so that I really just deeply trusted. And I think that was necessary for me to free birth for my first birth because one of the very common things that you'll hear from women who are interested in home birthing or free birthing, they'll say, Oh, I just thought I'd give it a go in the hospital first just to see how my body births. But no, and I did, I, the stories from women that I heard of who did that and then ended up regretting it because they got, they either had like a bad outcome in a hospital or with a midwife and they said, you know, I should have trusted my instinct. So I thought, well, if these women are saying in retrospect, I should have trusted my instinct, then I'm gonna take that lesson on and I'm gonna trust my instincts now and I'm gonna do it now instead of giving my body a trial run and then potentially traumatizing myself. um, in a system because I didn't listen to my gut. Yeah. And like, yeah, that's part of the reason I have this podcast is so, and yet in like, I'm so inclusive of people's journeys to how they found home birth because yeah, most people that so far on the, on the podcast, uh, second door, you know, um, moms that have had previous often traumatic experiences in the hospital. Um, yeah, like. why if you're hearing all of these stories, why, yeah, why not give it a go? And because I was talking about this with somebody the other day, like if something doesn't happen the way that you want it to happen, if something comes up, if baby for some reason just isn't coming, if you're done, you can always go to the hospital. But once you're in hospital, you cannot always go home. And yeah, like, if you're laboring and like, oh, actually, no, like, I think I will go home now. Like, they're not gonna let you. No, no. And see, like the only, oh, one sec. That's all right. The only kind of connection I had with the hospital when I was pregnant was I had a really severe gallbladder attack when I was about 26 weeks pregnant and I ended up in hospital for it. Yeah. And they treated me like shit because I was not registered at the hospital to give birth, even though I lived in the local area. And they, I told them I had a private midwife, which was a lie. And they kept asking me for a name and I just, you know, kept lying. And they kept trying to book me in as a backup. Just let me book you in just in case you end up coming into the hospital. No thanks, I'm good. They kept trying to pressure me to do tests. You haven't had any prenatal testing. Let me do some blood tests for you. Let's do an ultrasound. I kept saying, no thank you. And they kept pushing me, kept trying to, they asked to test my urine, which is completely unrelated to my gallbladder attacks. They asked to test my urine and said, there could be bugs in your urine. And I said, I don't want to test that. And they said, well, if you don't, your baby could die. Oh my God. And I was like, We got played the dead baby card. Yes. And then they finally wheeled me off for my, and mind you, they delayed my care for many, many hours for my gallbladder because they were having a meeting on what to do with me, the woman who was refusing prenatal care. Yeah. And then eventually they ended up wheeling me out to go get an ultrasound on my gallbladder and my kidneys to see what was going on. And they said the doctor pulled my husband aside and said, you're something is wrong with your wife. She needs to get counseling because she doesn't want to see her baby for some reason. And that's not right. Oh, and he just went, Oh, okay. No worries. And just came and told me straight away. Like this, this woman is, thinks you're insane. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's awful, but I know it's not uncommon to number one, have the dead baby card played. Um, but also to have this doubt that like something must be wrong with someone that wants to birth their baby at home. Like, are you crazy? Are you like super alternative and hippie and radical and risky, but like everyday people give birth at home. You don't have to be any of those things, be into any of those boxes that the system wants to put you in. Wow, how did that make you feel? Did that like shake you or like give you any fear or? It just reiterated to me that I'd made the right decision to not enter into a system where women are manipulated and coerced by having threats put on their life and their babies lives. And that, you know, I had when we were driving to the hospital when my husband was driving me, I said to him, I feel like I am preparing for a fight right now. I feel like I'm going into battle because I knew that this was gonna happen. And it was actually really, really beautiful. I said, I feel like I'm going into battle right now. And he said, if you feel like you're going into battle, I am your shield. And he really was, he really like helped protect that space for me. And he knew, I had already explained to him. Doctors and nurses and midwives in birth settings will try and go to the husband and try and convince the husband, you have to let us do this to your wife, otherwise she or the baby is gonna die. They use the husband to get to the wife. So I had explained that to him already. And so he knew not to listen to a thing that the doctor said when they were threatening saying that the baby was gonna die or that I was insane. He knew that it was all crap. Yeah. Yeah, so from your husband's perspective, he also, I guess, it just assured him that the path that you were both taking to birth this baby was the right one. Is that right? Or did he have any fears that came up around that? Do you know? No, he didn't. He was just mad that that they did that. And yet it was kind of like that proof to him of, oh, like, you know, he believed me. But it was that real proof that, OK, yeah, this system is somewhat. corrupt and this is real and you know, we were just, we were thankful that it was something that wasn't even to do with the baby or with my health related to the pregnancy. It was completely unrelated, but like we, you know, it was just the fact that, yeah, it just, yeah, it reiterated to us that it was the right choice and he just sort of was like, yeah, you're like, you were right. They actually. treat women like this and he just got mad and started telling all of his friends about how bullshit the hospital system is. Yeah, wow. And so when you're telling your family and friends like that you're going to have a birth at home without health professionals for your first time, what were their reactions? Most people were very scared and hesitant. At first, my mom, I'm very close with my mom and at first she freaked out quite a bit. But when I started explaining things to her, then she started to understand. And I'm actually very blessed because she then started doing her own research into birth and... into free birth and started watching birth videos online. She joined an online wild pregnancy free birth community that I was also part of so she could see the same things that I was seeing so that she could develop that same trust. And while she still definitely had her fears, she got into a much better place with it and was able to actually really show up for me, which was amazing. We discussed having her at the birth ultimately. I didn't invite her, but it was on the cards that I might've called on her. And I knew that I could've done that because of the fact that she had actually put in the effort to, yeah, to be okay with it. Everyone else, we definitely had people who were very, very against it and kept telling us we were doing the wrong thing and that we were being really reckless and that was really hard to navigate. We did confront those people and... they were not very great about it. But I did have other people who, you know, would tell me, oh yeah, cool, like do whatever you want. But then would go to other people behind my back and say, I don't agree with it. And I had some friends who just kept quiet about it and just say, cool, like you do your own thing. And I don't know how they felt about it at the time, but afterwards, a lot of them people were like, well, you know, you did it and you proved everyone. Wrong. Yeah. Questioned you so good on you. So yeah. Do you feel, um, you know, I, uh, some, I don't know if I'll actually get accepted, but I submitted an abstract to present at the, um, home birth Australia conference this year. And the theme is called, um, connect connection and community or community and connection or something like that. So I've been really thinking about like birth and birth story sharing and how that impacts. the connections you have with people in a positive and negative way and then your greater community. Like did that, did you having a free birth and choosing this as the way to birth your baby, your body, did you feel that that has still had ripple effects, you know, even now, you know, a year and a half or so later within your community? I think so. I think. Well, one thing's for sure is that people seem to trust me a lot more with my decisions. So because we do things alternative ways to, you know, how modern society does things, we do things a lot more natural and gentle parenting, et cetera, et cetera. And at first when we were explaining to people, this is the choices we're making with our parenting. we got a lot of side eyes questioning and again, talking about us behind our backs. But then people see the results with how smart and autonomous and happy our daughter is and they realize that what we're doing is right. And so we often get comments like, oh, you know, you just look at the way that you birthed her and the way that you parent her and that explains why she is the way she is. So. Um, people definitely, I think are recognizing that the way that we do things is, uh, you know, is it's the best for us, but that it's actually having a really positive effect on the way that she's growing up. Um, and you know, I've had other friends who have then expressed like interest in birth or wanting to speak to me about their births, um, or like their future births. And. But it's also been hard for the fact of I've had some people who have said that they wouldn't want to speak to me about their births because they would not want to choose free birth. And as a result, they feel like I wouldn't be able to meet them in a place when they are choosing to enter into a hospital system. So they feel like, oh, I can't talk to Maddie about that because I think they fear that I would be judgmental because I know... about the harsh reality of the system. And so they kind of don't want to hear it from me. Yeah. Yeah. So it's been positive and also negative because I have a friend who's deeply honest with me and she told me that, yeah, she wouldn't want to speak to me about that kind of thing, which is, it's fine. But you know, that's obviously hard to hear that there are people in my life who wouldn't want to talk to me about that because I've had, because I've had a positive experience. but something that they wouldn't want to do. But yeah. I think that goes back to, you know, the very black and white view that society has of birth. Like you either birth in the hospital or you don't. And if you don't, you're crazy and you're risking your life. And if you birth in the hospital, well, the hospital probably is going to save you, you know, it's like very black and white. There's no... grayness, but yeah, wow. So, you know, apart from the gallbladder issue that you had and engage in life entering in the hospital system for that in particular, did you engage with the system in any other way whilst you were pregnant? The only other thing was when I was first pregnant, I went and got a blood test to prove I was pregnant just to provide to my employer at the time. Of course, yeah. But that was... That was it. Yeah. Um, just because I needed that proof. They didn't trust me that I was pregnant. When I was, um, cause I, I needed, I didn't want to, but I needed to work up until like 38 weeks and I had to get like a permission slip from my midwife to say that I was allowed to work up until 38 weeks. And I just remember when I, when I was last to get, I was like, this is ridiculous. It's like getting a slip to go to the toilet. Like, I know. It's so silly the way that women are treated. So when I had my gallbladder attack, it was actually when my husband and I were on our honeymoon. We got married when I was pregnant and went on our honeymoon when I was pregnant. And I had my gallbladder attack on the honeymoon and we had to leave our honeymoon early to drive two hours home to go to the hospital. And so I had a week off from my honeymoon and then I had... couple of days, I had like the Monday off work because I had messaged my boss and said I'm recovering from being in the hospital all weekend. And then when I came in on the Tuesday, I said, oh, tomorrow I have to go to the doctors for a follow up. And she fired me. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Because I had to go to the doctors because I'd been in the hospital. Oh my god. And I was on, I was in my probation period cause it was a new job. And so she just said, Oh, it's because you're on probation. And then went and lied to the team and told them that she'd fired me because I wasn't good enough at my job. Oh my gosh. It's outrageous. Did, um, w so you were how many weeks pregnant when that happened? Roughly. or probably like 26, 27 weeks or something. And did they know that you were pregnant? Yeah, they did. I can't, that is, I can't even like imagine how stressful that must have felt. Yeah. Well, I was like a month out from going on maternity leave and so, you know, they were already looking for someone new and the day before or the day they fired me, they'd put up the ad. to for my replacement, which I knew was coming and I wasn't going to return to the position after I'd had the baby. So it's not like, you know, I had my heart set on this job or anything like that. And I, yeah, she, I could tell she was just mad at me that I had to take time off for my wedding and then time off for the honeymoon. And then when I said, oh, doctor's appointment, she told me, go on your lunch break. And I said, no, like, I've just been to the hospital, like I'm gonna have my lunch break and then go to the doctor. Yeah. And then, you know, we'll see how I go if I have to, you know, go get more tests or whatever. Yeah. So then she fired me. Yeah. Because I refused to go to the doctor on my lunch break. Yeah. Yeah. People are just outrageous. Like, even when I came back to Australia at the start of last year, I was like 20 ish weeks pregnant. and I had accepted a job and I'd not told them that I was pregnant because I knew that I was going to need to take leave. But you know, I know that they say that like it's illegal to like discriminate against pregnant people and whatnot, but like it happens. And like you have to actually be quite careful because they are never going to admit that they fired you because you know. Exactly. That's why she just said, cause I said, why are you firing me? I laughed when she told me and I said, why? And she's cause I knew exactly why. And then she said, because you're on probation. So yeah, we just, we're letting you go. And I said, okay, whatever. And I packed up my stuff and I left and then I'd made friends with this woman and she texted me and said, they just came upstairs and told us that they fired you because you weren't good enough at your job. But my job was essentially, um, unpicking staples from stacks of paper. So I don't understand how I could have been bad at that. And I explained, no, it's because I told her that I was going to the doctor's because earlier that day she'd been talking to me about, you know, doing other stuff with the job. Like next week we're going to do blah, blah, blah. So she had no intention of firing me before I told her that I was going to the doctor's. So yeah, just trying to get rid of the pregnant woman, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How was the remainder of your pregnancy? Like, you know, after you, you know, didn't have that awful job to go to? Did you do any particular work, especially in the few weeks before actually having your baby? Like, did you do anything in particular? Um, I wasn't doing very well mentally, so I spent most of my days just laying on the couch and playing call of duty and to get my rage out and playing other video games, like building roller coasters and things like that. Just to, um, I, yeah, that was all I did really. And just reading more books and resting. I stopped listening to birth stories because I wanted to create space for myself, for my own story. But no, sorry baby, no. But yeah, so just a lot of laying on the couch and resting my body and watching shows and playing video games to just, yeah, try and get myself through, yeah, to relax and just to get myself through, because yeah, I wasn't doing. very well. I had some stuff happen like at the very start of my pregnancy, again, un-pregnancy related, but I suffered a lot of trauma from that. So like I wasn't doing well. Yeah. Yeah. Did that give you any fear or just gave you more motivation to like really just chill out and let it happen? The trauma from the start of the pregnancy? Yeah. And I guess like how that impacted your mental health, like, you know, in the later stages of your pregnancy. Um, It just kind of like made me, it was very unrelated to pregnancy. I actually got fired from a different job when I was first pregnant. Yeah. And it didn't go down in a very nice way. So that was quite traumatic for me. And so it just kind of just numbed me out a lot. And so that's why I was just laying on the couch and, but it didn't create any fears or anything. It kind of just, it did create motivation in the sense that within that trauma, there was an element of like not wanting to do what authority people tell me because they don't actually care about me. They say that they do, but then they're just out for themselves. And so when that trauma happened, it just reiterated to me that even the people who tell you that they care about you. and want what's best for you, they actually don't. And so stick to your guns and do what feels right for you. So it just, yeah, helped me to, it wasn't even like approving them wrong or anything like that. It was just, yeah, I needed to - A reminder, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, but not a very like conscious one. It was more just like in the background that that, you know, in retrospect, I realized that I just had that added motivation of, to do whatever I want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, like in the lead up to having baby, was there anything that you had to go through, uh, with your husband? In relation to the birth? Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, yeah. So what I did was I like to prepare him for the birth. Do you mean, or like in relation to our relationship? Yeah. To prepare him for the birth. Yeah, so I created a birth document which basically was like a 20 page document that explained to him what birth is, what to expect from different phases of labor, foods I might want, what I might want in my space, what he had to do to set up the space. We had a lot of conversations around this. He had to read the document multiple times and he wanted to be tested on it so he knew what to do. and affirmations to tell me and then also what all the variations of normal are for him that he could expect and what a true emergency would look like and the things that we could do to try and resolve those emergencies and at what time to call an ambulance or to transfer to a hospital. Which once we went through all of them, that list was significantly smaller than most people would think. Wow. And yeah, so I prepared him like that. And so yeah, he knew what to expect and what to do. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah. And that he was willing to fully commit by, you know, being tested on like all of these things to make sure that he actually felt confident in himself that he knew what was in that document. That's really awesome. Yeah, he did have the document open while I was laboring and birthing just so he could refer to it, which I think really helped him, but he didn't have to rely on it. Yeah. But yeah, so that's what I did for him. And then my, for the birth story, it basically starts 17 days before I actually went into labor. When I was 39 weeks, I started to lose my microus plug. Okay, yep. And then 39 plus one, I started having my waters leak. Wow. So 16 days before I actually gave birth. Yeah. That's amazing. And so it was a very, very slow leak over the next 16 days. And then, so I was 41 and two and my husband and I went to my parents' house for dinner. Mom cooked me my favorite dinner. And then after dinner, we just sat around talking about, we didn't know. the sex of our baby. So we were talking about the names for whether we had a boy or a girl. We were talking about imagine if I went into labor here or if I had to give birth here. And I'd had dreams that I'd given birth at my parents' house. So we were having a good laugh about that. And I was laying on the couch and then at once I felt like a period pain and felt like, oh, I need to go to the toilet. And I sat up and then felt like a gush, like a very light gush. And then went to the toilet and my bloody show was there. I had a bowel clear out and I started to have really mild contractions. Just like the period pain kind that people talk about. And I don't get period pains when I have my period. So I was like, oh, this is annoying. And... I, when I came out of the toilet, I went to my mom and I said, Oh, I think I'm going into labor. We had a little giggle that like, Oh, I could be having a baby soon. And then got in the car to leave. Um, that was at like quarter to 9 PM that that all happened at the one time. And then got in the car and I said to my husband, you know, I think, I think I'm going into labor. And I told him what happened and all the way home, we were just like giggly and. saying, oh, it could happen. And I was like, yeah, but like, it might not, like, it could still be another couple of weeks. So don't, like, don't get too excited. And we just went home to bed and then all night I was having really mild contractions and by three o 'clock I woke up and it was getting quite strong. So I got up and went and got a heat pack, got back into bed, told him that it was getting stronger. I ended up throwing up and lucky we had a bucket next to the bed. And so I was like, okay, yeah, I think this is actually happening. So he went and set up the house to prepare. And I came out and sat in the lounge room, just sat on the couch wrapped in a blanket and watched him and then tried to get some sleep and was just breathing through the contractions. And eventually I had to go pee. So he walked me to the toilet and I had to go. I hated walking. I did not like that. That was so intense. But then sitting on the toilet was worse. I hated it. And then came back and I laid on the couch, but facing the back of the couch with my knee up so that I was like creating some space in my pelvis. And I laid there for ages and again, we just tried to sleep. He slept on the other end of the couch and Um, yeah, you hold that. And I was just trying to breathe through the contractions and he kept trying to offer me water and, um, you know, he would occasionally ask like, do you want food? Do you want music? Do you want this? And I just, I was so in my own world. I just was like, I don't even think I was responding to him or I would just like let out like a no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I laid like that for a while. I don't know how long and I was also squeezing a birth comb, which is just actually my normal comb. I don't even think I was squeezing it how you're supposed to, but it was distracting me enough that I found that it helped. I mean, it's the same concept. It's just the teeth of the comb. Yeah. I don't even think I had it in the right points because it's meant to be acupressure or whatever, but anyway, it was helping me. And then eventually I had to go pee again. So I had to walk to the toilet and again, hated that. Hated sitting on the toilet more like the co - I had a few contractions while I was sitting on the toilet and I get why people call it dilation station, but I did not like it. I was like, I want to go back and lay down and go be in my own little zoned out world. So I went straight back to the couch, but laid on my other side. And while I was laying there, Again, I was still very out of it. I was very aware of everything happening around me, but also completely like unresponsive and just like in my own world, like so inward and just so aware of what was happening. One, thank you. One affirmation that I had been using during my pregnancy was breathe down and release. And I actually practiced that every time I had to do. to practice the energy of breathing down and then like letting my body release. So that was my affirmation during birth and my husband would like run his hand down my back and say like breathe down and then he'd like do like this movement with his fingers on my back to say release and like it was really grounding and like helped me with that with my breath and guiding my breath. And while I was laying there, I started thinking, this is getting pretty intense. This is getting kind of painful. If this gets much worse or goes on for heaps longer, which it's gonna, because you know, birth makes you want to die apparently. Like, I was like, you know. I, if it gets much worse and goes on for much longer, I might have to, I might have to transfer. This is getting, getting pretty bad. And then straight away I went, yeah, but then you have to get up, go get dressed, walk to the car, be in the car, go to the hospital, then be in the place you don't want to be in with the people who are going to treat you like crap because you're not registered. Then they're going to give you the drugs that you don't want and you're going to have an experience you don't want. So you're not, you're not doing that. And I was like, you know what? Maddie, you're right. So I'm not going to do that. And so really quickly just dismiss that one thought of, oh, you know, maybe I can't do this. And just really quickly dismiss that and then just kept doing my thing. And then shortly after that, my husband came up to me and was stroking my hair and he's like wiping my face with a wet face washer and stuff. And he was like, Um, it was really beautiful. I don't know where he comes up with this stuff. He's amazing. But he said to me, um, you're mate, you've just gone through a transition. Your maiden self has just died and you are now a mother. You just have to birth your baby. Wow. And I know, like I was like, looking back on that, that was like the most perfect and beautiful thing he could have said. And, um, He's not like an overly spiritual person or anything, but I think just because he knows that that's what I would have wanted to hear. But at the time when he said to me, you've just gone through transition, my brain went, no, I haven't. You're an idiot. You don't know anything. Because I was like transition is where it's really hard and you want to die and you want to transfer to the hospital and blah, blah, blah. But in retrospect, that was that was when I was questioning, oh, do I want to go to the hospital? No, I don't. That was all my transition was. That one minute of questioning, that was it. And then later on, after the birth, I said, why did you think I was in transition? And he was reading the list I had made him to say, this is what transition can look like. And it's because I was unresponsive, I was hot and cold and sweaty and just not responsive was his main reason for knowing that I was. Because he was asking me, He was asking me the same things he'd been asking me earlier, but I wasn't responding at all. So he was like, yep, I knew you were in transition. So I was like, oh, okay, sure. Um, and then I was still laying there and my body started to feel pushy and I really did not want to push. I really wanted the fetal ejection reflex to happen. Um, I think one of the bad things about natural birth community is you very often get told, oh, you do not have to push, like don't push. You just have to breathe your baby out. And while that works for many people, I had to push. I avoided pushing for about an hour and was trying to breathe through it and it was making me scream. It was so intense. And when I actually pushed, it really, it felt good. It felt more like a relief. to physically be pushing with the urges my body was telling me to push. So I started pushing with my body after the first hour of having pushing urges, roughly first hour. And eventually I started like trying to create more space in my pelvis and I was like getting my husband to hold my leg up while I was laying on the couch. And then I said, I need more gravity. So slid off. So then I slid off the couch onto my knees on the land room floor. And I was just kneeling there and I was just like, yeah, kneeling there. My pushing phase was about five hours in total. So I was kneeling on the floor for four hours. Luckily, I had like one of those soft padded play mats underneath my knees completely saved me. And yeah, so I was there and I started getting really frustrated because I felt like it should be over by now. It was really intense. And as... It took so long for her to descend and for me to crown and stuff. It was so long, or at least it felt like so long, but I mean, that is a really long pushing phase in the scheme of pushing phases. But I really didn't... I get getting frustrated every time the contraction would end because I'd be like, oh, but she's not out yet. The baby's not out yet. And then... I, um, and then when she was getting really close and then the feeling of her going back up into my body felt so gross. And so I started getting annoyed every time the contraction would finish because I want, I wanted her out cause I hated that gross feeling. And it wasn't like, it was really intense and there was pain, but like, I was very much like, this is so much easier than I thought it was going to be. And was going for a lot less time because I remember Emily from Free Birth Society saying, mentally prepare yourself for like a three day really hard labor where you just want to die. So I mentally prepared myself for that. And so when it wasn't that long or it wasn't that hard, it was like a relief for myself and like a surprise. And I found that really helped me. Um, but it also was like, Oh, like this can't be happening yet. And, Oh, that's right. When I, when I started pushing, like my body started pushing, I thought to myself, I can't be here yet. Like it hasn't been long enough. And for a second I started thinking, Oh, I wish there was someone here who could check my dilation. And then I went, but you know, that's arbitrary. You know, that that's doesn't, that doesn't mean anything. And you know, you don't actually need that. Yeah. And so I really... the why about why, what purpose that would have. Yeah, exactly. Like, and I think it's so funny that I was like doing that questioning, like while it was happening, like telling myself like, no, because you like, you're only questioning that because society tells you that you need to know how dilated you are. And then I told myself your body would not be pushing if it wasn't ready to push. Absolutely. Yep. Whether you're fully dilated or not. Like that's besides the point your body wouldn't push if it wasn't ready to. Yeah in a normal physiological birth which this is, like absolutely. Yeah and so um yeah so back to when I was in like on the floor and like um and I was like feeling her she was starting to crown and my husband was like kneeling and laying on the floor and was like watching and he was like watching her crown and he was like oh I think... He's like, I can see like black, like it looks like, I was like, he's like, what could that be? And I said, well, it's either hair or something very bad. And so she was crowning for such a long time, it took what felt like forever. And then I was getting really frustrated and it's really funny. Are you familiar with the work of Jane Hardwick Collings? Yeah, the witch. Yes. So she talks about how every birth has a lesson. Yeah. And, um, you know, normally like when you look back on your birth, you realize what that lesson is. And that's the lesson you take into your mothering journey with that child. Yeah. Literally while like I was in a break between contractions, I looked at my husband, I said, yeah, the lesson is patience. Cause I was getting so impatient and he was like, yep, you need to be having more patients here. We had that conversation while it was all happening. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and yeah, while I was on the floor and like waiting for her to come out between contractions, it felt like forever between contractions. And I was so aware, like I could hear my neighbor outside his house, like doing stuff to his car. And I was like, I was like, Oh, what if he can hear me screaming? Like that's awkward. But I went, no, fuck it. Whatever. Sorry. I don't know if I can swear. Um, and you know, I was thinking, um, like, oh, my friend will be finishing work soon. I wonder if she'll be still at work when I call her to tell her I've given birth and Josh is eating lunch right now. So it could be any time between here and here. And I was trying to work out what time it was. And so, yeah, I had lots of random and wild thoughts, but then eventually she like, I started to get to a point where it's like, okay, she's actually coming out because she wasn't getting sucked back up. She was staying. like she was like staying in my vagina and it still took quite a few pushes for her to come out and then eventually when her head then came out and I was like Josh took a photo for me so I could see and then like I leaned down and I was touching her head and it felt so funny like how it feels like all wrinkly. So I liked being able to feel her head and I had my arms on the couch and I was like burying my face into a pillow on the couch. And I really wanted to catch her, but as she like started to come out, I realized I wasn't going to be able to, because to be able to push how I needed to push, I needed my arms on the couch to like bear my arms down into the couch while I was bearing down with my body. And so... I moved my hands way up onto the couch and he said like, do you want to catch her or do you want to catch baby? And I just, I didn't respond. I just started pushing and then like her shoulder came out and like her shoulders came out and then he like got his hands down there and I was pushing and then her whole body just like fell out at me. And he sort of like cushioned the blow of her head, but she just plopped onto the floor really. But. I was on my knees so it wasn't a very far distance. And I just took a few breaths and I was like panting and then he said, grab baby, grab baby. And I quickly turned around and lifted my knee and the first thing I saw was her vulva and I was like, oh my God, it's a girl. But I didn't say anything. Like I just in my head, I said her name and I knew that I had my daughter because I had connected with, um, spirit baby I'd been connecting with for over a year was a girl. And so it was this instant relief that I had the baby that I thought I was going to have. And because I always said like, you know, if we had a boy, I was like, you know, gender disappointment, I wasn't going to be disappointed. I was going to be confused because I felt so connected to the spirit of a girl. And so I saw she was a girl and felt relief anyway, picked her up. I sat back. and I was holding her against my body and I think that's my jumper baby. Yeah. And no, I don't want to put it on. And I started like rubbing her body because when there was like a little bit of meconium that had come out while I was pushing, like had come onto the floor, like Joshua said, oh, there's like this, brown stuff on the floor and I was like, okay, so she might need help when she comes out or whatever. And so I, when she came out, I started like rubbing her back and talking to her and saying, hi baby, hi baby. And she wasn't crying. But like I knew she was fine and I completely trusted her. But I was like rubbing her back and talking to her and like just sticking my finger in her mouth and like trying to see if there was any fluid to get out. And Josh said like, is the baby okay? And I said, yeah, she's fine. And he was like, did you just say she? But then I didn't respond to him. So like he was just sitting there going, did you just say we have a girl? Like, I just didn't say anything. The post sex or gender reveal ever. Yeah, he was just sitting there like. What? Like, what did you just say? And like, just looking at me, like waiting for me to say something, but you know, I'm deeply focused trying to, um, like stimulate her and stuff. And, um, I was rubbing her back and I felt very like rushed in the moment because I was just like, I want her to cry and I just want it to, like, I want it to be okay. Like I want to know that she's definitely okay, but I could hear her breathing and I knew she was okay. she was starting to like open her eyes and stuff. She just wasn't crying. And she sounded croaky in her throat when she was breathing. And she didn't cry for the first like minute and a half, I think it was, or two minutes or something. And so I completely trusted that whole time, was just doing my thing. And then eventually she started to cry. And that was like such a relief. And then at that point, my husband started to cry. And then I was kind of just like, almost crying but I think I just had too much going on to actually cry. And then I said we should probably check if it's actually a girl and then like just in case I'd seen wrong. And then we looked down and saw that yes she's definitely a girl and we said oh like we have a girl we have a girl and we started saying her name and talking to her and... Then I was looking at her hair and it's like, Oh, look at your hair because she had like, um, she had like really dark and cause it was all wet and slick. It looked curly. And I was like, Oh my God, so beautiful. And we were just talking to her and the cat was just watching us and just glaring at us. So we had a little giggle about that. And, um, yeah, we just sat there and, um, so that was at 3 .25. So an 18 hour labor, um, 12 of which were. And then, yeah, we just sat there on the floor and we just, you know, chatted and my husband was saying, you know, you did such an amazing job. I'm so proud of you. And I said, I'm so proud of you. And like the way you supported me, like you did, you did a good job. And so we just like, yeah, sat on the floor cuddling and yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's so special. I just, I'm trying to like, think like how that must feel, you know, like your neighbors next door working on his car and you know, people are at work and the world keeps spinning but birth just happens and you know, in like that's just magic like what a special magical moment just you, your husband, the cat and baby. That's, that's so magical and like what a memory. It just felt. It felt so normal. Like sitting on my lounge room floor, having just given birth, naked, covered in my blood, holding my baby. It just felt normal. It was the weirdest thing because I was like, this is what so many people would just call insane. But it's just, it felt so right and just normal. Just like how it was meant to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so, so beautiful. How long did it take for the placenta to be born? I don't know exactly like with time, I think probably around an hour to two hours. So I was just sitting there on the floor holding her and then I felt a big like warm gush come out of my vagina and I looked down and there was just like this pool of blood just flowing out of me. And I kind of went, Oh crap, all right. I don't know how much blood is too much. I knew it was okay to bleed. And once my husband saw the blood, he started being like, oh, like, should we be worried about that? And I was like, nah, but in my head I'm thinking, I don't know. So I wanted to birth the placenta quickly so that I could then take like a no bleed tincture. So I took a placenta release tincture. I was trying to birth a placenta. It wasn't happening for me. while we're sitting on the floor, I was trying to get her to latch, but I didn't know how to get her to latch. So unfortunately, like at that time sitting on the floor, it just didn't happen. And so I was like, all right, I took, I think I took two doses of the placenta release tincture. Nothing happened. I was squatting over a bowl, a massive, like something plopped out of me, but it was just a lot of blood and clots and stuff. And so then I ended up going to the toilet. Um, cause I had heard that that can help. So I went and sat on the toilet and as soon as I sat down and I put my hand down, it was sitting right there at my vagina. I just like, just put my hand in and I just like gently pulled it out and just like plopped it into the bowl while I holding my baby on the toilet. And again, it just felt like this is normal. It's just every day you pull the placenta out and you just plop it in a bowl. And then, um, And then, yeah, and then we went and hopped into bed and I felt quite lightheaded and dizzy. Like I was worried I was going to faint. But my husband laid out like a waterproof blanket on the bed so I could just like hop in naked and bleeding. And I just laid there and then I got her to latch. It wasn't a great latch, but she still got to have a feed. And we just, yeah, laid there in bed and... we started to, like we just took a couple little photos of her and of us in bed. And we wanted to keep, I wanted to keep the cord attached for a while, but it had gone white very quickly after the birth, like so quickly. And we wanted to like have the bowl in the middle of the bed. So my husband could be there laying with us, but it just made it all rocky and I didn't want it to, Um, cause there was also a lot of blood in the bowl. So we ended up cutting the cord and popping the placenta away. And, um, I think we both cut it. I don't even remember that. Um, but then, yeah, we just laid there and dead and like, um, Josh had a hold and, um, we sent messages to a few people and called a few people. Um, I called our families and. our close friends. And then he went and heated me up some soup and I ate soup in bed while I think he was holding her. Yep. And then we went to sleep. Wow. That is the normal, not boring, but boring compared to what it often is birth of your baby girl. Yeah. Wow. I'm just like so in awe of how Like your story is so powerful, Maddie, because like first time mom, free birth, the amount of trust that you have to have in your body, right? That's like so incredible. I think there'll be a lot of people that are inspired by your story when they listen to this. And I'm just so grateful for you reaching out to share it with me and with everyone that listens. Do you have anything else that you'd like to say, especially about like how, that your experience might have impacted your postpartum as a first time mom, your first postpartum coming into parenthood. Do you have any last words on that? So I still struggled a lot postpartum just because we had a lot of other stresses happening and I did end up struggling with postpartum depression. I thought that because I free birthed and I avoided birth trauma that I was going to avoid that. Um, I think I was like nutritionally depleted. So, uh, one thing is ensure that you have, um, a lot of like proper nutrition going into your body so that you can replenish and really just like, um, focus on your baby and your mothering journey. Um, but the one, like the main thing is that it just made me realize that we. We need to be trusting ourselves and we need to be able to trust our ability to do the things that we're supposed to be doing. We're supposed to be birthing at home. We're supposed to be birthing, not even necessarily without anyone because sometimes having that community support is beautiful. But this is what our bodies are made to do. You don't need a practice run in a hospital or with a midwife if you just need to. Really lean into that trust and trust your intuition for whatever it's telling you. And there's always the option to go and seek help and support if you need to. Yeah. But yeah, just lean into that trust initially and don't question it. Just trust yourself. Yeah, that's very beautiful. Thank you so, so, so much for sharing your story, Maddie. No worries. Thank you for having me.