Episode 20 is here! And what better way to celebrate than with TWO homebirth stories from Emma in Woollongong, NSW. This is a beautiful episode & I was so excited to hear the birth of Dara as well, because Emma listened to this podcast whilst she was pregnancy with Dara! How full circle.
Links to people/business/resources for this episode:
CHAPTERS:
03:18
Discovering Home Birth
06:11
Challenges with Hospital Birth
08:09
Choosing Home Birth
09:06
Pregnancy Experience
11:20
Declining Tests
14:21
Education and Preparation
23:00
Working During Pregnancy
28:48
Onset of Labor
31:02
Midwife's Arrival
36:37
Progression of Labor
41:14
Feeling the Baby's Head
45:04
Transition and Pushing
46:57
The Birth of Emma's First Child at Home
50:31
Deciding on a Home Birth for Emma's Second Child
51:26
Dealing with Morning Sickness During Pregnancy
56:43
The Role of a Doula in Emma's Second Birth
58:32
Declining the Glucose Tolerance Test
59:53
Finishing Work and Preparing for Birth
01:04:24
Emma's Waters Breaking and Waiting for Labor to Start
01:07:13
Contractions Begin and the Midwife's Advice
01:12:26
Emotional Challenges and the Midwife's Support
01:19:16
Active Labor and Getting into the Birth Pool
01:27:43
The Birth of Emma's Second Child at Home
01:30:26
The Afterbirth and Postpartum Experience
01:32:28
Difficulties during labor and recovery
01:33:54
Lack of appetite and dehydration
01:35:43
Factors contributing to the challenging labor
01:36:38
Importance of rest and recovery
01:37:38
Advice for women with pre-rupture of membranes
01:38:32
Home birth experiences
Episode 20 is here! And what better way to celebrate than with TWO homebirth stories from Emma in Woollongong, NSW. This is a beautiful episode & I was so excited to hear the birth of Dara as well, because Emma listened to this podcast whilst she was pregnancy with Dara! How full circle.
Links to people/business/resources for this episode:
CHAPTERS:
03:18
Discovering Home Birth
06:11
Challenges with Hospital Birth
08:09
Choosing Home Birth
09:06
Pregnancy Experience
11:20
Declining Tests
14:21
Education and Preparation
23:00
Working During Pregnancy
28:48
Onset of Labor
31:02
Midwife's Arrival
36:37
Progression of Labor
41:14
Feeling the Baby's Head
45:04
Transition and Pushing
46:57
The Birth of Emma's First Child at Home
50:31
Deciding on a Home Birth for Emma's Second Child
51:26
Dealing with Morning Sickness During Pregnancy
56:43
The Role of a Doula in Emma's Second Birth
58:32
Declining the Glucose Tolerance Test
59:53
Finishing Work and Preparing for Birth
01:04:24
Emma's Waters Breaking and Waiting for Labor to Start
01:07:13
Contractions Begin and the Midwife's Advice
01:12:26
Emotional Challenges and the Midwife's Support
01:19:16
Active Labor and Getting into the Birth Pool
01:27:43
The Birth of Emma's Second Child at Home
01:30:26
The Afterbirth and Postpartum Experience
01:32:28
Difficulties during labor and recovery
01:33:54
Lack of appetite and dehydration
01:35:43
Factors contributing to the challenging labor
01:36:38
Importance of rest and recovery
01:37:38
Advice for women with pre-rupture of membranes
01:38:32
Home birth experiences
Hi, welcome to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys. I'm a mental health nurse, a home birth advocate broadly, but also more specifically in the state of Victoria, and I'm an ex-student midwife. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Nam, Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have been birthing at home. country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledged that sovereignty has never been ceded. This is episode 20 of Birthing at Home, a podcast. Today Emma from Wollongong shares her two home birth stories with two-year-old Maeve and Dara who was born at home only six weeks before I recorded this episode with Emma. Emma's story again demonstrates the power of storytelling. Who knows what Emma would have chosen had it not been for a drunk conversation many years ago with a friend of a friend sharing their own home birth story. Emma also shares her challenges in pregnancy, including having a negative blood type. Enjoy these beautiful stories and please don't forget to share the podcast so others can hear how amazing and special birthing at home can be. Welcome Emma to the Birthing at Home, a podcast. Hey Elsie, how's it going? I'm going right. So it's eight o'clock at night and you're doing bedtime. Mom life. One baby strapped to my chest feeding. Yeah. Nice. Do you want to start off by telling the listeners a little bit about like who you are, who's in your family? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I'm Emma and my partner, he's Kieran and we have a daughter, Maeve. who's, you know, she was two in July. And our son, Dara, he's only six weeks old. Yeah. So cute, Dara, did you say? Yeah, Dara, D-A-R-A. That's a pretty cool name. Is there a Dara in like a movie or something? Yeah, we don't, I only know of one Dara, like an older dude, a comedian. an Irish comedian. Yeah, I'm sorry, does it have like an Irish history? Karen's family, they all got the Irish, well they're Irish and got the Irish names and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, his name's spelled the Irish way. Yeah, a weird way that nobody can ever pronounce. Yeah. Cool. Cool, so you had both Maeve and Dara at home, yeah? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, nice. Which is the best. Yeah. So I guess, yeah, I've talked about this before with mums who've had a home birth for their first pregnancy labor experience. How did you come to hear or know of home birth? Yeah, it was a pretty big fluke for us, but yeah, good one. I guess, well, years ago before we, you know. even when pregnant or thinking about it, actually had like a drunk conversation with a friend of a friend at a hen's party. She actually had both her kids at home. She's a little bit older and that was the first person I'd ever talked to about it or heard about it. So it was just, yeah, sparked something. So random. Yeah. And just hearing that positive. story and how empowering it seemed compared to the standard hospital setting. I didn't know much about it but just what I saw from movies and that just was like, oh, that would be so much nicer to stay home. Yeah, absolutely. Where did you say you live again, sorry? Oh yeah, near Wollongong. It's south of Sydney. It's a pretty big place. There's a big... like public and private hospital here. So it's pretty normal. That's where people go, I guess. Yeah. And so you become pregnant with Maeve. Did you know, apart from that very lucky random chance conversation about home birth, did you like meet any other home birth moms or anything? Yes. Later down the track, I guess, but not initially. When I went to the GP with Maeve's pregnancy, the initial sort of appointment, she mentioned our local hospital has an MGP program, like the midwifery grip practice. And that actually they can do home birth. When I saw that word again, home birth, through them, I was like, great, I reckon I'll get a home birth through that. But when 12 weeks rolled around, that's when you kind of find out if you get in or not. When you're 12 weeks pregnant, yeah, I didn't get in. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's pretty hard to get in where I live. Oh my gosh, it's like a lottery or something. Yeah, and like not everyone... goes to the MGP and wants a home birth, they can just do it at the hospital. Oh, that's actually kind of sneaky. Yeah, people apply and they want that continuity of care and they offer the home birth too, but I think there's so many loops and stuff to get through. So even if we got in, I think by the time I got to having Maeve, I would have probably not even been allowed a home birth through their system anyway. like I've heard that anyway. There's a handful of women that managed to tick all the boxes. I guess I still had this idea in the back of my mind, like, oh, it would just be so much nicer to stay at home. We were going to the public hospital for her. But then after watching Birth Time, that came out. Maybe I was in the second trimester, took my partner, Kieran, to it. That really got him keen. Yeah, yeah, on board, nice. Yeah. And then I was probably 24 weeks pregnant when I reached out to some local midwives via email. I think there was about four women I contacted or five. All of them I emailed to see if they would take us on. And only one had availability, which we were lucky. Yeah. She ended up, yeah, she's amazing. So it didn't matter. I didn't realize how lucky we got actually having her until maybe Dara's pregnancy. It's all been good, but you hear so many different stories now, I'm like, oh, we actually lucked out with her so much. Yeah. That's amazing. So you found out at 12-ish weeks that you get into the MGP. Had you already been reaching out to private midwives then, or you had been hoping to get in? Yeah, just hoping to get in. Yeah, okay. And you know, yeah, just was very, you know, naive about it and positive that, yeah, that will be us. Yeah, but also then it wasn't like, oh, we're gonna home birth. Because yeah, even once I got knocked back for that, it was like, okay, I'll do it at the hospital, we'll be fine. But then as I, you know, just read more and looked into it more and just listened to my gut, like actually, why do I wanna just risk maybe not having a great experience at the hospital? Yeah, I guess that's when I reached out to these midwives. And I kinda still thought like, you know, they're probably gonna come back and all be busy. And you know what, I tried, we did our best. But yeah, it worked. Like, that's what I mean, it just kinda was a lucky. Like it was a bit of a fluke, but it was for the best. Yeah. So fortunate. Yeah. And so what was your pregnancy like with Maeve? I was really sick for, yeah, probably the first half, like up until around 20 weeks, I stopped sort of throwing up. So, but I guess, yeah, nothing compared to like, you're not looking after a toddler. Like you can compare if you have the second and it happened again the second time. I don't know, yeah, I guess the first time you can just roll with it, it was shitty, really shit. But, and that not knowing when it would end, you know, when people would say, oh, 12 weeks or 16 or, I don't know, everyone has different things. But you do hear the odd story of, oh, some people are that sick for nine months. I was just manifesting like, yeah, no, like, I don't know. That's not me. really affected me like mentally. Yeah. So well, looking back, yeah, you're malnourished, but yeah, just you're just not yourself. I don't know. And yeah, just in a massive hole like in my head, like, yeah, pretty. But yeah, it was good to not be so sick the second half. And yeah, after that, like, Yeah, totally in comparison. Everything was fine. You know, you could drink water and keep food down and stuff. It makes a big difference. Yeah. And yeah, absolutely. Like the not knowing when this awful, atrocious feeling will end is so... like it just chips away at you and tell you like, oh gosh, this is horrible. Yeah, I know. It's a long time to be, yeah, it's months, you know, to be that sick. It's sort of, you feel quite alone in, well, I felt quite alone in it because it's for a good thing, you know, you're pregnant and yeah, I guess people, you know, oh, you got like morning sickness, yeah, but it's all day, it's all night. It's all day. Yeah. I didn't know anyone that I could talk to about it really properly. back then. And we didn't have the midwife on board with that, you know, nice support and talking every week or so until after I was feeling better. So yeah, it was like, yeah, very, yeah, you just got through it. But yeah, yeah. And so be pregnant again. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so you get through that first 20 or so weeks feeling so sick. Did you decline any tests or anything like that during your pregnancy with Maeve? Yeah, well, yeah later on once I had the midwives support, which yeah most of them were later on like the GBS swab we could chat about. Yeah, didn't think we needed to do that. I did do the gestational diabetes drink. But I think we just got on board with the midwife and she mentioned it and I was like, yeah, I'll do it. I had no real... I didn't look into what it was and she hadn't really explained it on that appointment either. I think maybe she thought I knew what I was getting into but I literally thought it was yeah go in the morning fast like with no food, fasting and drink a sugary drink and do a blood test and on you go but you know you have to do it two or three times so you're there for a few hours. Yeah but oh no, oh no Sue didn't realise. I didn't know. I told my boss I'd just be a bit late for work that day, but not. And then I texted like, yeah, no, I'm here for a few hours. Yeah. I even left the pathology after it because yeah, they told me, you know, we're doing this again and out. And that was the first time I heard of it after the initial drink. blood tests and I'm okay. And I just thought, oh, what am I going to do? I live five minutes away. I'm like, do I just go home and, or do I, I was like, no, I just get some groceries. And I just went and got some groceries and they called me while I was halfway through his shop, like, where are you? You're meant to be, you know, staying still and not burning it off. Yeah. I was just clueless. I'm like, oh, okay. But I was like, oh, and they were, yeah, get back here now. And I quickly finished the shop. Like. Yeah, they were a bit sort of like, you know, you might put this in your notes, we might need to do it again. Um, but, and I was like, I would not do this again. Yeah. I, I remember, um, also going to do it and, um, yeah, I'm not sure if I've told this story before, but, um, yeah, there was no like other parking, but the two hour parking. And I was like, oh, I'll just, or like, maybe it was one hour parking or something. I was like, oh, like It's only like 200, like less than 200 meters away. I'll just go and like move my car and they were really, really weird and funny and about that. And I was like, well, I'm not going to get a parking ticket for this stupid test. I know. So yeah, gosh. Anyway, so, um, you declined the GBS, but you did the GTT. Actually. Yeah. Another thing we declined. Um, I have a negative, I'm a negative blood type. And so is my partner O negative. Yeah. And he, um, but this is our midwife is so fine with us. Um, one, yeah, not wanting to do NTD. Um, but at the hospital cause yeah, the first half of pregnancy we were going there and we brought that up. Like I was, I wasn't, I just had questions about like if you're part, if the dad is also a negative blood type, like do I need to do this? Um, but yeah, yeah. Yeah. They were all grumpy about it. Um, that we wanted to possibly decline it. Like it was, it was pretty gross how they were acting. Like it was just this one doctor that we were talking to, um, in the antenatal clinic in the hospital was being just real weird in front of us. She was like, well, what if he's not the dad and stuff? Like. my arms. Like they said that like in front of you. Yeah and I've already had that. I had that chat on like phone call appointments with other midwives like I get it they need a whatever let you know of all the risks but the fact like they were just they just didn't like anything against the grain it seemed like. They're like it's standard practice any negative blood type woman we just give it to you but um you know maybe future pregnancies are with someone else and well I knew all that already you know, that's part of it. Like you just repeating yourself. Yeah. That's so like disrespectful as well. Like, I understand like, you know, okay, like say the risks, but then be like, well, if there's any chance that it's not your partner's baby, let us know. And then that should be that like not. Yeah. Cause it's, I had that chat two other appointments. before and on the phone and you know how they do those confidential ones like or whatever. But yeah, just you just feel like is anyone passing this information? Yeah. Is somebody documenting, you know, all the time that I'm spending here? Yeah, it was it was and that was like one of the first appointments we could go in and we're all excited like I had time off work so did Kieran and it was just yeah, not like fun and. And also, yeah, because she also wanted to just check with, she had an ultrasound scan of the thing. Yeah. She wanted to just check, I guess, a heartbeat or something. And, you know, first time parents and I guess it had the eight weeks, like the dating scan at that point, but I hadn't had the morphology one. So anyway, scans were just exciting when you see your baby if that's what you're into. And she was just so like, oh. rude and rushed about it. She didn't even say like, you know, there's your baby or this is a hobby. Like she just, it was just like a real negative experience after that. And it was a shame. That is such a shame. Yeah. Cause yeah, totally. Like you'd be excited. Like it's and cause any other, yeah. Scan we went to at like actual with a sonographer at our ultrasound place, you know, they really, they would see it every day. They probably mustn't care at all, but they're always really that email experience have been friendly and like fun about it and yeah kind that showing you your baby because it's been for you yeah I guess she was just having a bad day a bad day yeah I get it like yeah just another woman and her baby yeah and did you do any like particular like education kind of stuff for like the birth or whatever um we And one of those phone appointments early on, I think I was, yeah, around 15 weeks pregnant with the hospital the midwife mentioned, because I was so keen. I said, oh, and so when can you do, like I heard you guys have a class, antenatal class, and yeah, she was like, oh, you know, yeah, we have one, you've got to be like over 30 weeks, and you know, we can book you in the closer to the date. We're doing one for breastfeeding and one for. Yeah, the labor, but she was like, look, I'm just going to tell you, if you only do what we provide, you're not going to be, um, prepared at all. Like, oh my God, she said that. That's amazing. And okay. Her name, yeah, this midwife turns out fast forward, I guess, three years or whatever. She was our second midwife at Dara's birth. Oh wow. I know. So that was just really weird because she said that, um, which I was like, oh, okay. You know, I was just so. naive to everything and she goes look at the moment if you log on or just look on YouTube, you know, Corin Flores store, Bea the Aussie. Yeah, that is brilliant. Yeah, yeah. She goes look there's a free bunch of classes online at the moment, I can get you started, you know, because it was around, I think Bea put them out around that COVID time. Okay. I just wanted to let people learn not just to be left in the... Lurch, yeah. Yeah, totally. So I jumped on that and they all go, she has like eight videos, they all go for like at least an hour and that one week, every day I just watched one, I like binged it that week and just learnt so much. She's really enthusiastic about it and yeah, she's a midwife and she had both her bubs at home and I kind of started seeing that recurring theme, like a lot of midwives. Not a lot. just the fact that they were choosing that. And I was like, oh, okay. Like they would prefer to be at home. I guess they knew what they were doing, but yeah. So I just, yeah, devoured her info. And she made, she turned me from having this just, you know, kind of fear of the whole labor and thinking, it's, you know, the most pain and yeah, just, you know, quick shit situation that you gotta. get through to actually, I was so keen for it. I wish I could have just been in labor though, like next week. Wow. Like, yeah, I don't know. I just, something clicked. Like, and I, yeah, that was, yeah, the only education we did. I tried to get Kieran, like Kieran closer to, like, I guess Mavs due date listened to them while he was driving, like commuting for work, which I guess he picked up a lot on. Yeah. But yeah, didn't watch them, but. there was a lot of content like I don't think you went through that. Yeah. Um, yeah. As far as resources go, I've, I've not, um, seen or participated in, um, these resources, but I've heard a lot about them. And yeah, I think if that's, that's like quite incredible that I'm a hospital, a midwife that's working in the hospital at the time, basically says, our one's crap, go and do this instead. I know. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that makes me feel like B from the Great Birth Rebellion. That makes me feel like, oh, we're in a rebellion. Even the hospital midwives are rebelling. And another nice thing, it was a different midwife I spoke to around, I guess, 24 weeks. Once we chose and decided we've got private midwife were going with her from now on. I was super nervous to let the hospital know that, you know, their next appointment, I'm not coming in. That's why. Yeah. And this woman, it was a different midwife, but she was just so stoked and she was like, it's gonna be beautiful. Like she was just so happy that like. Wow. We chose that so I was like, okay, this is great. And I should know, yeah, knew of the woman, the midwife, maybe had worked with her too and she's just like, yeah. And I was like, okay. They get it, they're happy for me not to come to them and it's gonna be better I guess. Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. And were you working at the time? Yeah, yeah. work full time. What do you usually do for work? Yeah surveyor. Yeah surveying so outside a fair bit well yeah it's mostly out measuring stuff at construction sites or parks or wherever on the side of the road. Yeah I work at a local council but not the one I live in it's about a 50 minute drive so yeah the next council over. Yeah. So yeah, it's quite, which is, yeah, looking back, like, you know, working full time and being so sick at the start anyway, yeah, it's a lot, but yeah, you just, I was just doing it. Looking back now, I'm like, I wish I'd just used more of my sick leave or something, you know? But I just, yeah, you just think, no. Powered through. Yeah, you don't know what you don't know, and it's like, hindsight's great, but when you're in it. Yeah, you're just trying to get through the day. Yeah, yeah, totally. You're literally taking it. Yeah. Day by day or hour by hour. Yeah. Hour by hour. Yeah. But, and then, and then the, you know, second half of pregnancy, like even up until, um, yeah, her labor, like I'd never felt too crazy big and I could still kind of get around, I didn't have many on. you know, ailments like cooked, I don't know, back or swollen feet. So I was pretty lucky in that regard. So yeah, I could still work. Um, but I also put in my mat leave and like from 39 weeks on thinking, you know, this is before I, you know, just found I was pregnant pretty much and looked at my due date thinking, you know, you estimated due date like, yeah, it's around there and, um, but as I got closer, like, and especially since we hired the and she's like, oh, from 37 weeks, she could have your baby, and most likely not, but you might wanna be closer to home. And I felt like that too. I'm like, I just don't wanna be 50 minutes away. Yeah, 50 minutes, yeah, totally. Yeah, doing all this sort of. work. Yeah, like you just I was checked out like that sort of work by then. So it was cool. I could adjust those last two weeks and I just worked them doing the office stuff from home. So cool. Yeah, was sweet. And yeah, labor didn't start anyway. And yeah, well, yeah, she 40 weeks. So like on the estimated due date anyway, but yeah. Yeah. Well, so did you get like a week off or something you know, was great, like I could, yeah, just fully chill. I just went for heaps of walks and listened to the birthplace Lisa made and had all the affirmations up. And yeah, even those last two weeks doing the... from home was pretty crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's so good. Yeah. And also it was when it like kicked off that she was born in 2021 July. Yeah. It was this really strict lockdown where we live. So there was a few things I was hoping to do like, Oh, get like a massage or I don't know, get a pedicure or manicure or just something random like this time where I'm just waiting for Bob, but nothing, none of that was happening. Like I could go for walks or whatever. And like it was totally fine. but it was also another blessing because gosh all the women that like if we were going to the hospital it was just so stressful for those people like can you take your partner are you alone are you in a mask or do you have like COVID I don't know yeah I was just literally cruising like because people would message me because some people, most people knew we were having a home birth but like, I don't know, not a lot and yeah, it was just people are, you know, they've reaching out around that time, you're 40 weeks anyway, but just tripping out thinking you might have to go into the hospital with all these sick people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you had people messaging you kind of like worried that... like you were gonna have to give birth, like maybe without your partner, without Kieran or? Yeah, like they wouldn't really go into crazy detail like that. Though you know those standard messages you get closer to when your baby's due and they're like asking where the baby is. Yeah, yeah. But then it was weird times too. So they're just like, oh, thinking of you. And like, and like no one would wanna like hang really cause you know, you don't wanna be that person that maybe gets, yeah, it passes. you know, COVID to the pregnant woman, like before the due date. Yeah, so true. Yeah, but it wasn't like our full close circle knew and like my workmates knew we were doing it at home, but yeah, it was kind of the weird energy just in general at that time. But I was just felt, yeah, I was like, seriously, we could have... you know, I think that the rule at that time, you could have five people for family or something in your home. So I was like, oh wow, I could have five people at home at this birth where other people might not even have their support person. It was just weird. And like, yeah, no mask in here. Like, yeah. Yeah. I'd actually, that's so funny. I'd actually forgotten that, cause like here in Melbourne, we also had so much lockdown. I totally forgot about that rule about, remember like the rules, like not to go outside or five reasons or four reasons or whatever to go outside. But I totally forgot that you were like those rules on how many, as if there was like a little police person just in the corner counting how many people are in every, every house in Australia. Yeah, totally. Crazy. What crazy times. I know. And then you'd hear some random, um, the odd story of like in Sydney and someone did have a party and they all got busted and you got this crazy house fine, everyone. And you're just like, And that was, I guess, a bit of a scare one. Yeah, absolutely. I remember very vividly hearing about somebody that went out of their five K radius to pick up Indian food for dinner. Priorities. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So you went into labor, did you say, at 40 weeks? Yeah. Yeah, that morning. Wow. Yeah. Which was a surprise. I had no like. Yeah, I just didn't think, I was fully thinking, yeah, 40, 42 weeks or plus, like, I guess, I don't know, I'll just be that person. And cause I have the team support to go there, I reckon I'll be going that far. I don't know, I just thought that would be us, but yeah, in saying that two days before, you know, the labor started, I did notice some, the mucus plug. When I went to the bathroom in the morning, it wasn't like this crazy big mess, but it was something But I didn't think much of it. I didn't even tell the midwife I still went and saw my friends that day like it was just very like oh that was something different I've never seen but maybe it was a little sign Yeah, yeah just in denial of it all and yeah, just went to bed like normal and I was a bit like oh tomorrow I'm going to be, like it was a night before I went into labour and like, oh, I'm going to bed. Tomorrow I'm going to be 40 weeks, like the due date and then technically be over. And I know it's nothing and some women would go way over, but I was just had this weird thing in my head. Like people were already asking where the baby is like, yeah. Yeah. But then we, yeah, I dunno, had... had sex, went to bed, and I kind of had insomnia a bit at the end of pregnancy. So I was kind of up again at midnight, which wasn't abnormal for me back then, like in those times, but I was just like extra moody, maybe I put on like a guided meditation to try and go back to sleep. And yeah, like to... I was having a really vivid, kind of like a sexy dream. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then I, yeah, was about, yeah, just, it was weird timing because I was about to orgasm in the dream and I woke up to the waters, like full popping. Wow. Yeah, it was weird. That is pretty cool. Yeah, I just thought, oh, no, that's my water. Like it was, I just got up, like woke up. Yeah. Yeah, it was obvious. But yeah, I looked at my phone. It was 2.45am. And then I was just a bit in shock like, oh, it's actually the due date. And yeah, maybe. Yeah. And I was also naive like, oh, meeting the baby today or, you know, it wasn't that day. But yeah, just went and got to put a big pad on and try to get more sleep. But I did start feeling the first like contractions. But I. Looking back, I guess I was actually trying to pay, I was more aware, I was hyper alert, like, oh, the water's just broke. Like, probably if I was still sleeping, I could have slept through these ones, you know, they were just mild cramps. Yeah. Early, very early labor, but yeah, it was on. And I just was very much like to Kieran, I don't want to be on my, like, I don't want to do any of the messaging to the midwife or anyone. Can you do that all? didn't want anyone to know I was in labour, except for my wife. Yeah. I just, I was meant to see some friends that day and I just set up a scheduled text being like, Oh, I'm just super tired. I'm not going to come. Like, so they got that and yeah, Kieran, yeah, it just sort of started. I just, it was such a nice sunny, it was a winter, it was winter, but it was like a sunny day and yeah, just got to chill all day, labouring. And yeah, Kieran like. the midwife know around 7.30, just like, oh, well, the thing is he goes, because I've looked back at his messages with her, the correspondence and things. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Just I didn't want to let you know, Emma's labor has started, but it's super, it's all under control and it's all chill, she's fine. Yep. And she responds like, yeah, all good. Just let me know. Just tell her to rest as much as possible and let me know. Like, keep it up. at how you're going or something yeah when yeah when the contractions are getting more intense and then he texts her I think closer to 1 p.m like in the arvo like oh yeah forgot to let you know her waters did break like at 3 a.m pretty much yeah and then the text back is like oh good what color like she had a few more questions yeah let me know if anything changes with the color but yeah it was all clear nothing um nothing to worry about. So yeah. Um, yeah. I think like when that happens, like you're like, I, I really feel that like your intuition would have kicked in and been like, Hmm, that's a little bit weird. That's, that's like a, a weird color or something. I feel, yeah. So I think, yeah, like the fact that you were just like, yeah, it's just my waters. I'm going to go back to sleep. I think that's pretty cool. Let's just. Yeah, and I'd heard so much. You know, I did listen to a bunch of podcasts. Her pregnancy and read books and stuff. It's like, just rest as much as you can. It could be a long labor. So I was just like trying to get more sleep or trying to rest. Well, I didn't get much more sleep at all actually that morning, but I literally just chilled out all day and had the music on. And we watched like Shrek. I don't know, just something. Amazing. Easy watching. Kieran likes it. I don't know. I was laughing. just hung out, he did a few runs, little missions out to the shop to get some fruit and that, which I think came back, I was vomiting a lot later in the labour and I don't know if it was like, I've heard maybe since a fruit might not be the best for labouring with, but who, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was vomiting both times and I think it's, what can you do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But. Yeah, I had the 10s on as well close in the afternoon more because I started feeling a lot of just like the back, the contractions in my back. So it was cool. I had a 10s machine and had that on. But um. Yeah, I was kind of like, okay, this has been all day and they were getting ramping up. And also about this time, we lived around the corner from the midwife as well. You could walk to each other's house if you wanted, but it's a two minute drive. Yeah. So I was keen to see her. And I think knowing she was so close, because I knew like, okay, this baby's not about to come out of me anytime, like now. She doesn't actually have to be here. But I think because she was so close, I was like, can she just come over? Like I was telling Kieran, like, can you just ask her if she's free? Like, can she just come over and check on us? Like check in? Yeah, yeah. And she did. And it was weird because I was having quite like. I was very in it and like in the contractions, I was reading through them and maybe a bit vocal and, you know, having to lean forward and all that. But yeah, in between the gaps were quite decent. I think they were still like six minutes. I was reading these messages, you know, they were, it did feel long in between. And like then she arrived and she actually didn't see me have like a contraction. Like she was here for like half an hour. So yeah, it just sort of stalled. Yeah. can be disrupted and I guess that really showed me like okay yeah and she told me too like she didn't do any checks she just did that she did the Doppler on her heartbeat just looked at me sort of we talked for a bit and she was like you're in early labor and this is great this could go for a few days and I was like oh shit like yeah please phone what do you mean like yeah all night I gotta do this and tomorrow and da that was a bit of a wake-up call because I think I'm so in it and enjoying it and Thinking like it was progressing but I thinking oh gosh. It's a few more days of this like anyway. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, yeah, but so she goes just get me back when They're closer together like less than five minutes, but like for an hour, you know Like, you know not just one close together they were a bit random too they went it wasn't i wasn't really I don't even think we'll, I wasn't paying attention to the timing, but I could just feel they weren't close together. But yeah, she said, get me back when they're close together for like an hour. We know it won't like go backwards by then. And, you know, we'll be close. Yeah. But I just was up all night. Oh my gosh. They never seemed to get closer together. It was weird, but that was intense. And I was struggling to find place. Like I'd be in the shower for a bit and then out in the lounge room with the tens on for a bit. a bit and like Kieran would just kind of be sleeping. There's nothing he could really do, which is fine. We just had the music on or a guided meditation like you were having a calm and gentle birth like on for an hour. Just try our bath for a bit. Just because also we had Kieran that day blew up the pool, but didn't, we didn't want to put water in it way too soon and have to siphon it out. At one point it was like 4am and like yeah I guess in the early hours of the morning too, sometime before 4 because I was reading the messages like I was starting to vomit you know with these strong contractions and yeah it was all just kind of spiralling a bit like I was feeling like okay this is intense and yeah but they're not I don't know I guess I was so out of my head I was like what is happening? I don't seem that close together but I feel so weak like I don't know if I can keep doing so sick. And then so I said, Kieran just goes, look, I'll just half fill this pool up if you want to because I was like, I was just looking at it like a kind of maybe want to try get in there. I know. Yeah, he half filled it up and he let our midwife know I'd been throwing up a lot. So this was at about like 4.30 in the morning. And she goes, yeah, that can happen. How's the contractions going? And he told her like, still not that close apart, close together. Yeah. She goes, okay, that's fine. But if she's in the pool and they still stay that distance apart, like they don't slow down, let me know. Or if she feels heaps of pressure in her bum and Yeah, so I was just kept like chilling and I guess he texted her at 6 a.m. because I do remember feeling the pressure in my bum at that point. I was like, there it is, like, let her know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Finally. Yeah. Get her back, get her here now. Like, yeah, I didn't feel like, OK, I just felt that. I was like, oh, that's what they mean or she means. And yeah, I felt, yeah, like, yeah, she was coming out of my bum, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a lot. But. Yeah, there was moments where I must have been, yeah, before I knew she was coming and I was just in the bathroom looking in the mirror, Kieran was asleep, I'd been sick, I was just like, couldn't find a spot to get comfy anymore and I was just like, oh, I think I gotta go to, like, something must be wrong, like, I think my back is broken or yeah, is my back starting to break? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I was in hospital right now, like, give me an epidural, like, this is a lot and I felt very... Yeah, alone and no one was telling me, you know, you're doing great. Like I was just like, this is crazy. Like, why did I think I could do this? Something's wrong. Like, surely my back is broken. Like, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was still walking from spot to spot. But that's okay. Yeah, but I know something is cooked. Yeah. But it was crazy. As soon as she walked in, the midwife, I was just like, oh, relief. Like. I could just maybe, yeah, not hold back anymore or just, yeah, it just was like, okay, someone here that knows, knows it all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. do the same thing, but they're there telling, like, she's just watching, but yeah. And then it was so good. She came here, she got here at 6.30 in the morning and yeah, she was here for three, like Maeve was born three hours later. So we just sort of... I just was like, oh, I think I was in the water. She goes, you can feel that pull up more. Cause it was like half full. I was just like kind of flapping about in the bottom. She's like, oh, feel it up, get comfy. Like, you know, would have looked weird. But it's just nice. Like a beached whale. Yeah. I don't know. We just had no clue. It was just nice having her like, Yeah. Knowing like, okay, no, cause you know, she might have knowing, okay, well, if she's giving us all clear to keep filling it up, to close-ish, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, have some support for Kieran because he'd done so well like getting up all night or cleaning up my mom, just also not knowing. Like I was not complaining to him either. Like I didn't tell, like in the text to the midwife he's saying, oh you know she's still good, she's been throwing up, but no other complaints. But like that's at the same time in my head I was wigging out in the bathroom mirror thinking I need to go to hospital. Like I just didn't say it to him because He looked pretty, not worried, but he was just tired and he'd been, he drank so many iced coffees that day. He just looked cooked as well. He was trying to stay up and yeah. Oh, that's so sweet. So I just was like, I'm just not gonna bother you with what's going on in my head. And yeah. Yeah, yeah. But yes, he suggested, I was in the water and I said, oh, can I just, I think I, I gotta do a poo, like, I can't be bothered getting out of this pool though. Can I just like... I don't know, can I go in here? I know, is that really gross? Like, yeah, yeah. It's probably not a poo, like, it's probably you're feeling the baby's head, like, dropping down, like, I don't know. She's like, look, if you want, get out of the pool. If you want to sit on the toilet, that's fine. Let's just see, come out of the pool. She had, like, we had towels by the pool. Do you want to just see if you can feel the baby's head, like, on like all fours, on the floor? I'm like, oh, like, you're tripping, but okay. And I just put my finger, inside my vagina and I just hit her head not that far in at all really. Wow. I guess just maybe two knuckles. It was just a bit of a finger really, I don't know. And I guess yeah and I just thought hang on. I was like no you should check like maybe it's a foot. I don't know she's like no I believe you. Yeah yeah yeah. Hit like the head or something. Yeah. Or she knew. She could probably see. via different angles or whatever, but I just didn't believe it. And then, well I believed it, but then I was even like, I don't know, like, Kieran, you should have a feel, like, what's going on? And she's like, no. She said, no one needs like, else to have their fingers tied to you, it's fine. I believe you. And yeah, she did a few, while I was still on the floor, She got like just a sarong from our lounge and did some sifting with kind of like the technique of the robozo. The robozo, yeah. That jiggled my bum and then jiggled the other one under my belly. So that was cool because, and then she also told me, I don't know in the order if this was like a little bit before or not, but in the time that she was there she asked me to stand in the shower for a bit and lift up. I think she said like for six contractions. you know, hold your belly up during the contraction, up and in, you know, while you're standing or something. And it was horrible pain, like intense, you know, on top of the contraction. And I'm pretty, she asked me to go in for, do six of them and I literally did like two or three or something and just waddled out being like done. And she was like, oh, was that, did you do all six? And I just like lied to her face thinking, yeah, she won't know, but you're not. She's just like, okay, I'm like, yeah, I did it. Just wanted to get out of that activity. But yeah. But then looking back on it, you're like, of course she would have known. Like she would have heard me or just known I didn't have six contractions in for it. But yeah. So that was good. I think that helped her get into a better, you know, little position to come out because yeah, hop back in the walk, cause I was on the all fours and she goes, yeah, you don't want to go sit on the toilet, do a poo now. You might have your baby on the toilet, like you may as well get back in the water. That's probably what you're feeling. And yeah, I just was breathing. I was leaning over the edge of the pool on my knees. The second midwife rocked up at this kind of point. And yeah, it wasn't long. This would have been like, yeah, probably half for now before she was born or something. Like I... was just breathing through them and I could touch her head during the contraction um, had my hand on my perineum and I could feel the stretching and feel her come down but then you know go back up when the contraction stopped and it gave me a bit of like I was a bit like oh no and then she gave me advice like no this is that's good this is what you want this is normal next contraction you'll stretch a bit more like take your time it was so chill and then at one point I guess I did a few of them but Yeah, she goes, if you want, only if you want, in this next contraction, if you actually push a little bit with it, like give it some, cause I was just like breathing, I wasn't pushing. You know, you just, oh, I felt like I'm hesitant to, you know, you don't want to like tear, you got that stretching feeling. But she goes, if you want to, bub so close and you're so close, like you could actually give it a little push in the next contraction. I was like, oh, okay. And yeah, I did. Like I was holding Kieran's hands over the side of the pool. And... The contraction came the whole time. I actually just squished his whole head down the side of the pool and actually pushed and her head came out. And yeah, then he, the contraction ended and I let go of him and he had a breath finally. And he was like, oh, Kieran, do you want to come see the head or whatever? It's heads out. I was just like, wow, big relief. And then I guess, yeah, next contraction came pretty soon and her body came out. I had to kind of flip around and yeah, then mid-way I was like, do you want to pick, you can pick up your baby. She kind of, like, cause I was just a bit, I didn't, I was very like, whoa. And she kind of passed her to me and there was no nuchal cords or anything. And I just put it on my chest and I was like, ugh, like so munted. Like, I was like just natural high. Just like what I was holding her, but like just looking around like what? And yeah, she was perfect. I think I said like, yeah, I've never held a baby. Like, is this like right? And she's like, yeah, this is fine. You just hold it. Yeah, it was very surreal and just magic. It was really, yeah, there was no tearing and there was no blood in the water. It was just very like, whoa, and never been so high and just the best feeling. Yeah, it was incredible. Yeah, and it was just... Oh yeah, it was just Kieran and the midwife and the second midwife was really just like intimate and nice, yeah. Yeah. It was special. And it was sunny. By that time it was 9.30, she was born pretty much. So the sun was up again and it was just a crazy way to start the day. Yeah. Wow. So grateful. And for the, for Hopeless Centre, what did you do? Yeah. Yeah, we... got out of the pool and after a while, I don't know how long, but, and had to, because the person was born an hour and 20 minutes later, when I look at the birth notes. So yeah. Yeah, the birth notes, yeah. Yeah, oh yeah, so, yeah, I was, they asked me to like squat over like a bowl when I was sitting near the lounge, just like that, and I was like, I can't squat right now, like I'm so tired or. I've just done like a workout, really, really long work. Yeah, it'd been like, um, yeah, up for 31 hours, like since the waters broke. Yeah, yeah, I don't even squat on the best of days. I was just laughing. I'll be like, that's fine. They said you can just, we'll just go put this bowl, this container in the toilet and you can sit on the toilet and I'm sure that will do it. And yeah, it came out. So that was fine. And it was intact. And yeah, I got to just go walk. to the other end of the house, I have a shower by myself, wash my hair, like, get to just look at our baby and it was just so, I was felt, I didn't feel like I just, like I was cooked, but in comparison to this recent birth, like I was not rattled at all, like after the birth, like I just kinda could still do everything, I guess, a bit, like I just, maybe I was just so much oxytocin, it just rushed through my body, I could, I felt like, yeah, on top of the world. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And she was 3.72 kilos, so yeah. She did a nice size. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so then with Dara, so had you already? You know, it took a little bit to fully decide with me to have a home birth with Dara. Were you like, I'm definitely... Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And like, yeah, I messaged the midwife when I peed on the stick and saw a really faint line. I just thought, oh, you know what? This might be a thing in nine months. Which is like, cool, I'll keep your spot on hold. Like, yeah, it was just so nice to just know from the get go and... just have that path and not have to worry about all these other hoops and stuff to jump through. And it was just, yeah, so good. Yeah. Was Dara's, like the preq, were you like as sick with Dara? Yeah, same thing. Pretty much the same. A bit, I felt a bit sicker and worse. I don't know if it's because I was still breastfeeding Maeve as well. But that might've contributed to the, you know, depletion. But yeah, it's hard. It was hard and I was back working part time, so sort of juggling. Yeah, it was just, it was a lot, but it ended, yeah, again, around 20 weeks of vomiting and, yeah, slowly, like, you know, not back to your normal self at all, but yeah. Once you've passed that severe vomiting, good daily, multiple times, everything's better for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you, I guess? I want to say find it comforting, but maybe that's, I don't think that's the word. Maybe like, did you feel like more confident in yourself that, you know, the sickness would go away or that you would get through it all and it's okay. It feels crap at the moment, but it will be okay. Yeah, I was pretty confident again. I was like, get me to 20 weeks, like surely. And yeah, it's what happened. So I, but yeah, it's a long time when you're in it. Um, Yeah, so, yeah, but I didn't really think that it would go to nine months. Like, you know, I was just like, yeah, get me to 28, I can do this. But I, yeah, it was hard. Yeah, like with the toddler around, like she got used to it. Like she would, she would see me vomiting a lot or, you know, she saw, I said, oh, I'm just a bit sick. You know, there's a baby in my tummy. Like I'm fine. Like I'm not, you know. know, sick, you know, I'm fine. I'm just a bit sick because of this baby. Yeah, there's a, I would always go try and get to the garden, have like a little garden and try and vomit there because it was just nicer than, you know, the bathroom or something, the toilet, like, especially first thing in the morning, okay, yeah, and if my partner had weed in the night and not flush and then you're running in the morning to go vomit and it's just like, weed that had sat there all night. Yeah, and anytime, I don't know about you, but anytime I've gone to throw up in the toilet, just the thought that I've got my head over the bowl of the toilet makes me gag and it makes me actually vomit more because I'm like, this is so gross. Totally, yeah. I hate it. So yeah, I get it. So the garden sounds nice. Yeah, there's a spot in the garden and there's a blue tongue as well that used to, I mean, if I was there, kind of run away, but it would like... you know, chow down on the vomit every night. Like, it was just this weird little cycle and I'd just sit there going, okay, like birds come down. Like, cause it's like the closest spot like I could get to that wasn't deck or yeah. It was just, and yeah, it was just the spot for it. And yeah, it's so nice sitting near there now. And I go, oh. I knew I could sit there, because it's a little shady spot too under a tree, and I'm like, this isn't gonna always last, and in however many months, I'll be sitting here with a newborn in the shade, and it's all worth it, like, you know what I mean? Kind of thing. Yeah, the sickness and the smells, and having to get up early with your toddler and make them breakfast, oh my God, and opening any cupboard, any fridge, just smelling anything, oh gosh, it was so, I was like, and yeah, no. It was cold. Yeah, yeah. And so you reached out to the same midwife, so she was able to take you on again. Yeah, and we were so, yeah, because my mum saw how good our care was for the first time with her and with Maeve's pregnancy and the postpartum for sure. Like first time parents in the middle of COVID, she was busy and helping the whole time. We had a... could breastfeed and everything. So my mom witnessed all that from the sideline and was like, when it came around to this pregnancy, like we were straight up getting this midwife, no questions, like gonna pay for her, you know, they do payment plans and everything, but she was really kind and said she would help us out pay for her. She just knows like it was such a good experience and she just wants that again for us. It was the best, like so nice of her. And then that regard, it meant we had a bit like, heard about a student doula it was $500 and because we didn't have to pay all for the midwife I'm like okay I'm just gonna go all out and like we met her and you know I was like okay we were also getting a doula this time because we paid that extra for her like it was on a two per rate but she was amazing and yeah so we had a doula the second time too so yeah just sort of thought it would be nice with having the toddler around but you know I wasn't sure when I'd go on a labor or what sort of support. You know, just having that extra hands when you had to top the hair. And also, yeah, yeah. She filmed the birth, which was really nice because we got photos of Maeve's birth, but I was like, oh, if there was a spare pair of hands, if you can film that, it'd be really cool too. And now we have footage. Like, I don't know, she's amazing, yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. And sorry, how many, do you remember how many times you met with the... like in that antenatal kind of period? Yeah, we met probably, the package was, it was meant to be three times before birth and two times after, but we live so close together and she was so pumped to do a home birth. It was her first home birth, supporting. She's got two kids of her own, but yeah, all her other births were in hospital, so she came over here. Like I think she would have come over. five times, like we would have caught up five times I reckon before the birth, because yeah, she got to hang, like disconnect with Maeve and she came to some of the, well one of the midwives appointments. And like, I don't know, just, yeah it was a few times. It was just so good, because then when she rocks up, she was with me for Dara's birth, like we hit her up first before the midwife. I was like, yeah, come here, we can hang before I felt like the midwife needed to come, like at the pointy end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Amazing. So that was, yeah, something I never thought we would have. And then it just worked out. I was like, yes, super, super stoked. And she helped with like, she helped us with like a birth plan just in case we transferred. Like I know it was so rare, but just having this little thing and she helped me like. in case, yeah, a pack like a really, like a bag just in case she transferred but like then I could just use that bag. It gives all the things we needed for birth anyway. She just helped me get like organized in those last few weeks like little things that you just don't want to do but she's really helpful with. I'm like I didn't have to do those things but it was just yeah it was nice. And this time around did you decline the GTT? Yeah, well I didn't do the drink so I got a bunch of bloods done I guess in that early third or late second trimester and I did in the morning like fasted and did some sort of test for bloods but I mean for sugars or something without taking the drink and it would... um you know maybe flag if something was irregular and maybe we could investigate more but it came back yeah normal so yeah definitely recommend that yeah oh gosh it was nice to hear that's an option yeah not that you're going to be harassed whilst you're trying to do your superman and shot her hurry back yeah you're in trouble i know and like yeah the midwife is just so i could just chat and she was just so informative she goes you know let's look at the, like, is this sort of diabetes or something, does it run, is it in your history, your family, or has anyone had this? Like, let's just talk about it a bit more than just say like, you need to go get it. Like, yeah, maybe we can do this baseline sort of, if you want this one blood test with your other blood tests and just go from there. Like, it was just so much easier. Yeah. Yeah, yeah way nicer than some people say that they don't mind the drink but I personally hated the entire experience the first time I had to do it like the there's three blood tests! Yeah it's just it's extreme like it's over it seems really over the top that every woman needs to get that. Yeah every pregnant woman and yeah like and like the label if you get it. Like I obviously didn't get it, so I'm very fortunate, but you would probably know all the different, if you get labeled positive to gestational diabetes, you just have that big label on your head and all the numbers might have changed or whatever, or you might actually be fine, like come on. Yeah, it's such a massive bullshit. Yeah, absolutely. The blanket. That's what I think. Yeah, but like, I don't know, it's hard to say like, I want to sound like, yeah, yeah. Naive and that, but I think yeah, it's when it's just given to everyone. Yeah. Yeah, not individualised care at all. Yeah, I understand. So, um, and so in the lead-up to the birth of Dara, like where it's you working part time, when did you finish work? 37 weeks, I knew this time to stop. Didn't need to be driving nearly an hour. And yeah, so stopped then. And I knew I was again thinking, you know, I'll be over 40 weeks, you know, when labor starts all the longer, like I'll give myself all this time. But yeah, it was good to, wasn't as relaxing as, you know, that one week of mat leave the first time because you've got your two year old, which is fine. just soaking her up and enjoying it so much actually. Yeah. The hags with her and the everything, you know, sleeping next to her and stuff. I was like, this is a bad habit probably cause I'm gonna have to have a newborn soon and she'll be sleeping next to her dad. But I was like, I'm just gonna do it until the day we don't have to do it cause it was so nice. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, you never get those. Yeah, you never get those back. Somebody said in a in an early episode of the podcast, I think it was that they went to bed like the night before they gave birth or whatever. And they like consciously were like, this is the last time. Like I say good night to you. Like before, like I have like another baby. It's like the last time you're an only child. I know. All of her feels. And they're like, they're your baby. Like, they're, she's, and then it's like, hang on, next minute there's a bit actual newborn baby. It's like, no, here's the baby. And you look at how big you're. first child is and this is your baby but it's yeah it is yeah try to get but like the midwife is saying it's good all that oxytocin stuff yeah and I weaned her probably two months like before he was born so that was something I was trying to Yeah, I was kind of keen not to tend and feed. I don't know. I just couldn't imagine it. So, um, yeah, but I couldn't wean in those first half of the pregnancy when I was so sick. I wanted to because I was so sick, but like the effort to deal with the, I don't know, making milk or, um. from the free gel or getting up or dealing with a tantrum, I was like, no, you can just keep feeding. But when I finally got closer to due date and feeling better, I was like, I had to do our last feed, which I knew was our last feed and all that. Like, yeah, so, and it was, yeah, for the best for sure. But yeah, all those little moments, you... Yeah. End of a chapter, end of a chapter. And then you look down at your new baby. Yeah. But then you get to see your older one, you know. Yeah. Play with them or love them and it's just something else. Yeah. And how many weeks roughly did you give birth to the child? Well his water's broke at, I was there only nine weeks and I was asleep and my water's popped. I wasn't having like a dream or anything this time. Yeah. I was in a deep sleep but I woke up, I mean it was only 9pm, it was a Sunday evening and I went to bed at like 7.30 with my daughter. I was so tired from a big weekend socialising, we had a few events on and then I was fast asleep but I woke up. Same thing, water just like... popping down and gushing down to my legs. And I was like, in so much shock and I was so tired. I was just like, no, not tonight. And I thought it was gonna be like one in the morning or something and I look and it's only 9 p.m. Like, I was like, oh, so, so fast asleep. And she was asleep next to me. I had to, you know, move her, change the sheets. And I knew this time too, like, I just put the adult nappy straight on. Like if my waters were to break first, which they did. Because last time I was dealing with, I didn't say about the big maternity pads, which are big and good, but I don't know, it was easier to just wear nappy when you got waters constantly coming out of you. And Kieran, the first time was, you know, I was in labor with Maven, more waters would gush out and would go through my pad, Andi's pants, what I was wearing. And he, like... have to get clean ones for me and he'd never put a pad on undies before and here I am like in labor just trying to not think and he's like asking me questions like how do you put a pad on undies and all that so I was like next time I'll just get nappies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, straight put the nappy on. Texted the midwife because I was like shaking after I woke up to his waters breaking. Oh this time there was meconium too It was brown. It was a greeny brown. So I was like, okay Like it was just another thing but I wasn't yeah, and I was here It was just sort of something else, but I was a bit shaky and a bit in shock I just definitely didn't think I was going to be going into labour that week. I don't know. And like, yeah, we organised, we had everything, you know, at home, ready to go. But the place was just like a mess. You know, when you go to bed and everything's everywhere because you're like, I'll just do it tomorrow. Don't have any more like in the morning or whatever. But I was like, oh, no, like, I just was like, not tonight. Like, I don't know. And yeah. Anyway, just let the midwife and the doula know. And this time I was also keeping my mum in the loop just in case she had to come and be a support for Maeve. Yeah, it was just an extra support. So if need be. So let them all know, but I just let them know. I don't feel anything. I'm going back to bed. And yeah, well, we didn't get much. I was pretty wired, so was Kieran. We didn't get much sleep, but I had no contractions and finally got some sleep in the early hours of the morning. And yeah. like no contractions that whole next day either. I was just sort of like okay like the midwife came and checked on his heartbeat, checked on me, just told me like rest. stay hydrated, drink heaps extra than normal because your waters are leaking. He was head down, but still kind of floating up quite high. Not high, but he wasn't engaged. So if you feel like going for a walk, go for a crazy walk. And if you feel like cramps and that, just walk through them. You don't have to stop and turn around and come home. Just walk through them, which I did. And I like yeah this is it like they were coming and going kind of like contractions and I would come home and be like okay maybe my labor started and I would walk in the door and they would just stop like yeah it was so I'd go for a walk in the morning in the afternoon Went to bed that next night, woke up, no contractions, just like, oh, and still waters leaking. And yeah, I knew like if I was probably at the hospital or something, they would not, I'd be given maybe 24 hours, I don't know, like not that long if you have like your pre rupture of your membranes with no labor. But yeah, each day the midwife would check on us. So yeah, it was Sunday night. broke Monday nothing Tuesday still no contractions the midwife just checked his heartbeat yeah everything was still fine yeah I just had to just chill but it was getting to me probably by that evening because I'd kind of done all the things around the house and I was ready like I was like any day like any minute now any day now like I'm ready I'm not as frazzled like I'm ready yeah but yeah I went to bed that night and then woke up Wednesday morning no contractions I was like okay this is getting to me mentally now like um and on Wednesday when I went for the morning walk because as well it was quite warm these days, like it had a little heat wave around where we live. It was spring, but yeah, I didn't want to be like out in the middle of the day walking, so yeah, I did the morning one and I felt like no cramps. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going backwards. Like what? The midwife visited that day. She was always coming around like the middle of the day. He was still fine, not engaged, but like, you know, that she could feel not much. to not much different but um yeah and she suggested like maybe if you're keen like it just you might enjoy getting some acupuncture today so i called around all these places asking for an emergency acupuncture appointment because my waters had broken over 64 hours ago or something i got in somewhere went and visited them also yeah the midwife at this appointment mentioned you every day and checking on Bob, and I'll leave it as long as you want." She gave me also all this info about like, Naconium in your waters and articles to read, so we were all informed about that. But she goes, it's up to you how long you want to leave it because, you know, risk of infection and everything. Yeah. She goes, but maybe tomorrow's appointment when I come at 11, let's just have a little chat about possible plan. Maybe you choose a day. and we could let the hospital know about going in and having an induction to, you know, get your baby out. I was like, okay. But she's like, I can leave it as long as you want. But she's like, sometimes I just tell families because yeah, I was just... rolling with the fly. I didn't really, I wasn't asking, oh, what happens if it, if it takes forever. I kind of trusted it would be one day soon, but she kind of told me, she mentioned that, which I get. She goes, sometimes I know when families have a plan set in place, like maybe on the weekend you'll be going in, like you kind of relax and it will happen before then or I don't know. It's just something to get organized. I don't know, but that threw me. I was like, hang on, what? Like an induction, like in the hospital. How did we get to this? Yeah, but it was, she wasn't, I never felt like that's what she felt like we needed to do or she was stressed about it or anything. She was so relaxed. Like she's told us stories of people waiting over seven days and you know, as long as everything's fine, you know? So we were like, okay, we'll chat tomorrow about it. later that Arvo, like maybe we'd leave at seven days. I don't know, like we never really talked properly, we were going to wait, but yeah. So yeah, he did like come the next day, but yeah, it's just, it was just interesting. I wouldn't, that day was, I was so emotional. And yeah, I don't know if that was just because Labor was going to kick off that night anyway, but I was just so. Yeah, like I went and got acupuncture, which is cool. I'd never had that before. So I don't really, yeah, it was a bit, yeah, something new. But then, yeah, I went for a walk in the evening, like that Arvo too, and same thing, not many cramps. Like the other previous days, I was like, what is happening? Yeah, and she also suggested to have garlic because of the infection. Like I was taking this really strong vitamin C that she suggested. and also just like a clove of garlic at some point in the day to help with infection. I was like, yep, I'll do anything, which yeah, I had one in the evening. Yeah, then labor did start and I was just thinking, oh my gosh, my breath just smells like garlic. Oh. Yeah, I was vomiting and it was just garlic and that's when the door rocked up. And I'm like, I'm sorry, this is just garlic. It was just so red. I'm just like, whatever. But you know, the things you, but it was good. I was like, I'll do it. Like I did acupuncture, I'd never done that before. Like I'll do anything to, well, the other stuff was to help with infection, but yeah. Yeah, open mind. That's cool. So like, yeah, I was just so flat by the end of that day. I cried a lot with Kieran. He was so supportive, just being like, he was so good. He didn't like wig out with me, like while I was spiraling, like, oh my gosh, we're gonna have to go to this in hospital. He was just like, no, like he was, I can't believe how good he was at supporting me in that. Like how was he to know but he must have also just really trusted it. And trusted you as well. Like I've got this. Like the prolonged rupture of seeing of membranes or whatever happened to me with Frankie five or six months ago. like you would read, well I was like, wow, I did not expect this. And then I was reading the stats and I was like, okay, well by 24 hours, it's this. And then 24 hours went and I was like, well, okay. And then I was like, okay, well 48 hours then. And it was just like such a mental game because I didn't get any, by any sign, I was like just leaking. It was so annoying. I hate pads. I was having to change the pads all the time. It was just. It was horrible, it was like soul destroying. Totally. Like those hours and minutes felt so long, like longer than normal hours and minutes. Yeah, totally. Oh, it was fully in the land of in-between, but I wasn't, like the first day and a half or whatever was kind of like fine and enjoyable because I was just kind of doing, I had things. to do and I was being positive about it and I actually didn't know any of the, like, you know, with your background being in midwifery, you would know way more and all these risks and stuff. But I was like, oh yeah, it's just going to happen. Like she said, like most of them happen within 24 hours and then all 48 and I was just like waltzing around. But then I was just started actually thinking like, hang on, this is not as normal. Like you just don't hear of it as much. So yeah, it was definitely a mental. Yeah, I wouldn't wish that. I was like, I wouldn't wish this on anyone. These- That was like torture. Yeah. And I look back and I go in perspective, I go, of course I was going to go into the labor and I wish I could just, like that's the midwife checking in on every day was such a good like grounding thing because she was like, like just yeah, more Maeve cuddles, oxytocin, like it, like just try and enjoy and rest and enjoy these last few, who knows days, hours, whatever. But like, it was good to have that. recalibration because yeah, they're long nights and they're long when you're going for a walk and you're thinking you're going to start labour and it's just nothing. It's all in your head. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, you feel the same. Yeah, I'm sure most women might feel the same because it's hard to just let go of all that, the stats and the... And you just, you know, you're so close but you still don't know how close. Yeah, it's like the sickness, it's soul destroying because you're like... when is the thing gonna happen? I know, and I just couldn't wait to feel some pain. Like, give me a contraction, just bring it on. I was like, yeah, like it was wild. Like, oh, it was weird. And I, yeah, actually, so that evening, so it was like Wednesday evening by now, still that day was a bit massive flop, but I'd had the acupuncture in that and the acupuncture woman let me know some points. your partner or someone to press. Oh yeah. Which yeah, was good. So when we were watching a funny show that night, he was pressing them, which was pretty nice, like with massage oil. Yeah, and I was just chilling, I was just on the ball, I was just like, okay, I'm gonna go to bed. Like, was getting close to nine. And I felt like... maybe a few cramps and I was like a bit excited because that was the first time I felt any that wasn't like on a walk but I'm like, no, I'm going to go to bed and it could fizzle out but you know, at least that was something. I don't know, I was a bit more positive but I'm like, okay, I need to sleep and maybe it will be tomorrow or tomorrow night or I was just a bit like, that was something when he was doing those massages but it was so mild and then we're laying in bed and they were still there. and I'm like okay if you kind of still get them when you're just laying down like that's a good sign and yeah and then they And I was like, maybe Kieran, like maybe go blow up the pool. Like, just it might not happen tonight, but it could just, at least it's set up. And then all we have to do is fill it with water. Like, you're not trying to blow it up. And he was just like, ah, like, cause he was so tired. We're like, you know, about to go to bed. He's like, oh, I'll just do it if it happens. Like at that time. Like, and I was like, okay, but yeah, okay. But I guess I could feel them just keep coming. And I was like, and then he heard, I had to get up and I was like being vocal through them. And yeah, I was like, you know, they were getting quite intense. And I would just straight away be like, oh, like you want to say like no, because it's quite a pain in my back and my tummy. But then I was like, hang on, I've wanted this for how many days? I was just like, you know, I just turned it into a yes and just be like, yes, like this is what. I've been waiting for this so good, they keep coming, they keep coming. And he messaged the dula first, just because, yeah, she lives close and she mentioned I'll come, you know, any stage of labour and hang out, even if I need to go home or whatever. But she came, I think he messaged her around. I've got his message too, but it was like 11.30 and she came over. So she was probably here, yeah, close to midnight. And that was really nice, because at that point Kieran had got up and was blowing up the pool. Also doing all these other random, people moving all this random stuff up and down the hall. And then the doola came in and she was amazing. She knew, like I had the tens on by this point too. So that was great. And she knew, she was like, hang on, I'll bring your music in if you want. Like this little things I hadn't. because it just kind of started and they were quite close together compared to Mavs and they were intense and I was just leaning in the bedroom in the corner huddled up like leaning over the ball and pillow for like it was just this little creation I'd made and it was kind of comfy in between them so she put the music in and she would make sure I drank water like it was just really nice to have her there because Kieran was kind of busy or he wouldn't have maybe thought of those little things And then I started. because it's carpeted in that bedroom. had to crawl out like a cat onto the hallway where there's floorboards, because I was like, this is gonna be messy. And that's the start of the vomiting and the garlic. And yeah. Yeah, and it just kinda, I was just in there and the doula was timing them. So that was good, because I was just not even thinking about it. I knew they were closer than what I remembered maves ever being kind of, or yeah. It was like, yeah, they're getting, they're quite close together. But. I'm just in it. I wasn't having to think again. I don't want to have to try and talk to the, like get my phone and message the midwife. So that was really nice because she was. And yeah, she came over then. I think they were chatting like, oh get me over when they're like, you know, two minutes apart. And they were. So the midwife rocked up around 1am. And yeah, they were like filling up the pool. This was all going on in the background and I was kind of into it. I was like, it just felt like it just went. I'm like, this is all happening quite quick. And I was, and in between I felt very, I wasn't like in this weird labor land. Like I was with Mavs cause I've been for hours and it was just me and all night. And it was, I was very just like talk kind of, I was not really talking or anything, but I was like, is this happening? Like what the hell? And then another one would come and it was like, wow. And then... Yeah, the midwife came and she did a little Doppler check and I guess I was fine. Like, I don't know, she just, they were just filling up the pores in the bedroom. And then at not long after one, Maeve woke up from her room, which she does sometimes in the night. She doesn't always sleep through, but we just resettle her. Kieran went to resettle her and like, she was just wanting me. Like, I want mommy, I want mommy. So I go in with the tens on, full in... very deep labor trying to resettle her in between contractions which was nearly working like in that minute or two but then I would be moaning at the end of the bed like I was like one second like hopping off the bed just like roaring and then yeah just and she was just kind of like because she was half asleep like you know and they kind of wake up they're half asleep and they're pretty easy to get back down but that was just yeah That was a weird time in the labour, just thinking about it now, because then the midwife came in, in between, was like, Emma, maybe you want to get your mum here, because that was the idea. If Maeve was up or whatever, if we needed extra support, my mum could come, she doesn't live far. So yeah, she actually didn't talk to me. She's like, Karen, do you want to contact Emma's mum? She could come here. I reckon, like, Emma needs to come out of this room. It's kind of dry. And it was, like, dragging me out of labour. And I... was kind of like holding back. Like he was, it was so much pressure just everywhere. It wasn't like Mavs where I just was like, oh my bum, it was just like kind of everywhere low. It was just, I couldn't put my finger on it. Like I was like kind of in denial where I was at. And yeah, so I got out of there and she was like, well the pool's pretty much filled up, you can get in. And I'm like, what? Like, like what? Like, oh, I'm liking this 10s too much. Like, um. And I didn't think I was, I was like, I don't want to, I'll just get in when we're close. And she's like, yeah, no, let's, yeah, get in like, yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know, in the nicest, calmest way. She's like, yeah, if you don't like it, you know, you can get back out and put the tents on. But I got in and I loved it. Like I was like, oh, I can, you know, move around in between contractions. And yeah, it was nice. So, cause I liked it with Maeve's Labour. Yeah. So then. My mum and the second midwife rocked up just before two at the same time. They parked out the street and saw each other and walked in. At that point as well, Kieran and Maeve were out in the living room, which is where the pool was, and it's all one area. And we knew that she was where we weren't getting her back down. Like, she was out with us and looking at me in the water and, you know, holding my hand with Kieran. And there was a few moments of just like, what is going on? This is like... Yeah, so special like what you see in some of those videos or... Yeah. Yeah, just I was like this is happening and she's here and she's... I think I'm close, like I don't know but it's so cute and then I was... I just remember thinking... I said in one of the contractions, I was like I'm getting really frazzled in these contractions like I don't know what's happening like it's a lot and then the midwife said um just relax like she was you know relax your shoulders relax your face like relax everywhere relax your whole body and i was like okay i'll focus on that and she also mentioned um yeah my mom and she's like your mom and you know the other midwife is here now too i had my eyes closed like i'd go over the pool again on my knees like just gave him the thumbs up i was just very like okay that's nice but i think it was good to know too because maybe i was holding it back a bit maybe for her to come. Yeah. Because of Maeve, I don't know, because she was still a bit like, yeah. I don't know, up a bit like tired and wigged out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then when she said, just relax everything, I just go, oh my God, I'm just gonna do what she said, like really do it. And I just had my eyes closed in the contraction and just thought of, you know, there's like flowers blossoming, just opening. And it was cruel. I was like, let's just do that. And I let go of everything, like relax. My wife was like, because the main midwife was up near my head, kind of near my hand, but she's second, my wife was kind of looking from the back and she was had the camera, her phone. and was like, oh, head's out. And I hadn't even put my hand to feel where he was at or anything. I knew it was probably close and it was intense, but because of the stretching with Maeve and everything, the slowness of it, I was like, what? I was like, oh. First thing I was like, oh my gosh, I must have tore. I didn't even feel me slowly stretching or coming in and out. She was like, they're like, oh, head's out when I fully relax. And then I'm like, what? And then, yeah, that same contraction, like, his body came out. I just flipped. Yeah, it's wild. Like, it was, cause Kieran wasn't even, he was very close. Like, no one, I didn't even know it was about to happen. I guess the Midwives might have known, but like, the Dora didn't know. Like, Kieran wasn't even near me. Like, no one was like, it's happening, do you wanna see? He was just like doing something in the kitchen, like, very close to us. But like. I think he was trying to get the GoPro. They knew it was kind of close, because I think he was going to try film on the GoPro and set that up, but he kind of missed it, because it just happened. And we have footage from the phone anyway, which is perfect. But I was just like, what? And yeah, Maeve and my mum were in her bedroom just playing a puzzle, like keeping her busy or something, distracting her. And they missed it too, because yeah, it was just like... just happened. He just showed out when I just let go of everything. Yeah. And I didn't even tear. Like, I don't know what happened, but he was smaller than Maeve. He was only 3.11 kilos. But still he just somehow got to the right spot and just, yeah, was ready. Wow, you just out like that? Oh my gosh. It was bizarre. And I had this time, yeah, same position, but I rolled over to pick him up and I just did it all. very instinctively this time I picked him up. I think because he showed up so fast, I was like, maybe no one is ready. I've got this, got him and he had just one nuchal cord around his neck and I just put on, because he couldn't really come up out of the water, had to do that first and then bring him up. And the cord was still quite short. In comparison, he wasn't fully comfortable to bring him really high on my chest. Yeah, he was fine. He had heaps of vernex and just looked perfect as well and super fair compared to Maeve. Like blonde hair, not black hair. Yeah. And then my, in the video, like, yeah, Kieran was so close. Like he just walked around when it happened and saw me holding him. And then he made a few little cries. And in the video you hear Maeve and my mum, well you hear Maeve going... baby's here, baby's coming back and she's running down the hall because they heard the cry and then they come into the pool area, not into the pool and she's looking at him and yeah it was just insane it was really yeah really magic but really intense yeah oh that's so special oh my god yeah it reminds me of like Christmas and like going to get your presents in the morning but it's actually you being together. Totally yeah and because it was the evening like he was born at 2 0 5 a.m. like there was a little fairy light it was the night like yeah and yeah and like yeah we didn't know Maeve was a girl yeah and we didn't know he was a boy like they were both surprises and we did all that in the pool and but the thing with his was the other whole placenta thing was I lost heat like compared to like I was losing the blood cots were coming out when I went to step out of the pool. A blood clot came out and I was like, oh, it felt like it was the placenta. I was like, oh, yes, the placenta just fell out and then The midwife's like, oh, that was just a blood clot. OK, like she was so chill about it. I didn't think I wasn't worried about either, but I was like, oh damn. Thought I'd just finished the job so easily by getting out of the pool. But yeah, there was and she goes, I'll actually give if you're cool with it, I'll give you the needle because I like. Yeah, she's like, there's some pretty big clots. And I was like, yeah, I'm all cool with that. Yeah. And I had the needle and I was. laying on the lounge, I was like shaking, yeah, I guess from the blood loss and maybe a bit of the fastness and the intensity, I don't know, I was shaking, I was really cold, they had the heater on me with all these blankets and yeah, I was sort of, yeah, not like feeling, I wasn't in a good way in that moment, like I was just really faint, I guess, and I was still vomiting with after pains, like obviously they're still so painful. and especially compared to the first time around, but I was like, they were still making you vomit. Yeah, and I was just like, so you're holding a newborn baby, you're vomiting. Yeah, and I got the, yeah, stood up, I didn't walk to the bathroom this time, I just stood over the bowl and We've got the placenta out, just like a little sleazy squat. Like not really, I don't know. I had two women holding me either side, like, cause it was more effort to walk to the bathroom. I was like, let's just do this. And that was 50 minutes after he, or 40 minutes after he was born. Yeah, so that was all fine, but I still felt pretty super rattled after that. Like I went to the bathroom, they wanted me at one point, like. who knows how long after, but like, do you wanna go see if you can wee? And they walked me down to midwives to the bathroom. I was sitting on the toilet. I was like, I feel so faint sitting here. And they like laid me down on the floor and I just needed to lay like, and they fed me like toast on my bathroom floor, on my towels. I'd never been so comfy. I was like, this is cooked. Like, I just wanna stay here. Like I don't even wanna shower. I can't be bothered. Even though I'm like bloody and dirty and all the rest of it. I was like, Just this is it. They're like no you probably want to go to your bed. Like we'll get you to your head But yeah, I was really rattled I don't know just felt like and I felt sore like my whole body was just sore which is so weird because he just Pretty he just shot out and like yeah. Yeah, but I went yeah bad and then Yeah, didn't have a shower until I did. Yeah until the next afternoon before the midwife did an ex visit I was like a better have a shower and I just sat down in the shower. I was still so So it felt so rough, yeah. But yeah. Were you eating and drinking? Because you said with Maeve, you were having the fruit and it was still vomiting and whatnot. With the whole few days leading up to Dara and the labor and whatnot, had you been eating much or drinking much? I was trying to drink heaps and I was. Yeah. And but yeah, the food I didn't have much, especially by that Wednesday, I had like no appetite. I was trying to still eat because I knew like that was something that I would say, you know, try and eat if you can, for sure. It gives you energy whenever labor will start. But yeah, no, I didn't. And then like during the labor when I was drinking, because, you know, you're working so hard, I would have some water, but then it would just come up anyway. So I think I was just so dehydrated. Yeah, that was half of it. And they were on the borderline are going to give me fluids. They kept checking. Both my advice would come in and do a little check. And I didn't know they had these conversations like, oh, she needs it or anything. But the last one they did by this time as well, my mom had put Maeve in the car to go for a drive. Because this was around like nearly probably 4 or 5 AM. and she's still up and she was just so overtired at this point and just wanted to cuddle him and I like you would be like no and it was just she was really upset like just so mom took her for a drive to get some sleep and by the time it was only until she left and they did my obs like I was calm like because I just had this screaming toddler next to me that was really the hardest part yeah so the last check they did like no you got this like just If you keep vomiting, let me know. Like I will, I'm coming back this afternoon, but if you're going to continue with this vomiting, I'll come back sooner. But I, yeah, wasn't continuing with being vomit. So that was good. And just drink water. I just had to have like the little sips, kind of like back when I had the, you know, HD, the early pregnancy, like the little sips of, well, back then I figured out cold water I was helping in the H. Yeah, but. this wasn't good, I just needed to have little sips. Like, yeah. Yeah. Oh God. Yeah, that's so interesting. But yeah, if you're, yeah, probably just like a mix of different factors, hey, like, Yeah. The fact that you've been vomiting, the fact that you had been leaking fluid for days. The blood loss, I guess, cause I guess. Yeah, the blood loss. Yeah, I didn't have that last, yeah, just maybe, yeah. Bunch of things, yeah. So dehydrated, yeah, it was crazy. But I was, like, yeah, I was fine. Like, I guess, yeah, that was the hardest part of it all and the recovery, because yeah, since then, I've actually, yeah, just been doing nothing and feeling fine. Yeah, yeah, trying to get, yeah, all of that depleted stuff back on board so you can feel. somewhat like yourself, I guess. Yeah, and just meant I really did do, like didn't get up and didn't do much. Like, you know, maybe when you, yeah, maybe I did too much initially when Maeve was born because I just felt, yeah, on top of the world. So good, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, still not a lot to do in the middle of lockdown anyway, but yeah, this time it was like, no, you feel like, I felt like, yeah, my body was so, my whole body was sore. I was like, no, I'm not. Like it was a really good sign, like don't do anything. You might really do nothing. And yeah, that was another thing. The midwife was really nice saying when the whole like waters broke early, well not early, but like you're waiting for labor. She's like, no one really knows, we don't know why this happens to some women, but like I just tell them it's a big sign to say, like slow down, like your baby will come any day soon. And yeah, just take it easy. Like enjoy these last few moments, days or whatever. And yeah. I mean yeah, still, I was still neg spiralling for a bit of it but yeah that's probably one thing I'd say if anyone has that pre rupture of the membranes and they're waiting for contractions just enjoy it. Yeah. Just take it slow. Yeah like as with any pregnancy whether you're 40 weeks, 42, 43, 37, 38 or whatever. the baby will be born. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I know. It will happen. Absolutely, 100%. It will. I know, yeah. Believe that it will. It's okay. Yeah, wow. Yeah, so. Well, thank you for, thank you so much. Too big story, sorry. Yeah. But yeah, it's, like I said before, like it's not. super common, it's not, home birth isn't common at all, but it's also not super common to have a first time home birth and yeah you've just shared two fantastic home birth stories, thank you so much. Oh no worries, cheers Elsie, thanks for yeah having this platform because yeah I've lived off listening to like home birth stories, especially when we moved to home birth. in the first pregnancy. I just wanted to hear them and I wanted to hear first time pregnancy. Yeah, stuff that you can relate to. Yeah, so yeah, it's so good. And yeah, your podcast, I noticed it or it maybe came out when I was in my third trimester probably with Dara. So I was like, oh, this is great. And I was just so looking forward to listening to them all. And even since like, if I'm doing like, you know, midnight or 2am feed or whatever they are, I would like. when an episode comes out like yay get to listen to some like that's so cool yeah it's nice it's i love it thank you