In episode 19, Sarah walks us through her 7 year learning and unlearning around pregnancy and birth which led to her choosing a homebirth for her 2nd baby, Quentin. In the 7 years, Sarah experienced many challenges, including hyperemesis gravidarum (HG), postnatal anxiety, an ultra sound drama and an IGUR (Intrauterine growth restriction) scare. So many of these anxieties were created and perpetuated by the many attempts to pathologise and medicalise birth.
Homebirth story begins approx 45:00
Links to people/business/resources for this episode:
CHAPTERS
03:11
Choosing the Public System and Hyperemesis
08:18
Induction and Hospital Experience
13:24
Epidural and Pushing
17:34
Postpartum Experience and Mental Health
20:11
Finding Out About Second Pregnancy
28:15
Considering Home Birth
34:34
Misdiagnosis and Confirmation of Pregnancy
38:58
Telling Family and Friends
45:33
Support from Sister-in-Law and Mother
48:21
Education and Pre-Birth Counseling
49:19
Preparing for the Birth
52:10
Clearing the Mind
53:07
IUGR Scare
54:44
Preparing the Space for Birth
01:13:45
Going into Labor
01:18:13
Labor Intensifies
01:25:14
Transition and Pushing
01:29:58
Baby's Arrival
01:36:08
Birthing the Placenta
01:37:01
Exploring the Placenta and Baby's Size
01:37:56
The Birth of Quentin
01:38:46
No Tearing and Empowerment
01:39:17
Perception of Birth and Recovery
01:40:14
Empowering Women's Birth Experiences
01:41:06
The Impact of Continuous Care
01:41:21
Gratitude and Conclusion
In episode 19, Sarah walks us through her 7 year learning and unlearning around pregnancy and birth which led to her choosing a homebirth for her 2nd baby, Quentin. In the 7 years, Sarah experienced many challenges, including hyperemesis gravidarum (HG), postnatal anxiety, an ultra sound drama and an IGUR (Intrauterine growth restriction) scare. So many of these anxieties were created and perpetuated by the many attempts to pathologise and medicalise birth.
Homebirth story begins approx 45:00
Links to people/business/resources for this episode:
CHAPTERS
03:11
Choosing the Public System and Hyperemesis
08:18
Induction and Hospital Experience
13:24
Epidural and Pushing
17:34
Postpartum Experience and Mental Health
20:11
Finding Out About Second Pregnancy
28:15
Considering Home Birth
34:34
Misdiagnosis and Confirmation of Pregnancy
38:58
Telling Family and Friends
45:33
Support from Sister-in-Law and Mother
48:21
Education and Pre-Birth Counseling
49:19
Preparing for the Birth
52:10
Clearing the Mind
53:07
IUGR Scare
54:44
Preparing the Space for Birth
01:13:45
Going into Labor
01:18:13
Labor Intensifies
01:25:14
Transition and Pushing
01:29:58
Baby's Arrival
01:36:08
Birthing the Placenta
01:37:01
Exploring the Placenta and Baby's Size
01:37:56
The Birth of Quentin
01:38:46
No Tearing and Empowerment
01:39:17
Perception of Birth and Recovery
01:40:14
Empowering Women's Birth Experiences
01:41:06
The Impact of Continuous Care
01:41:21
Gratitude and Conclusion
Hi, welcome to Birthing at Home, a podcast. I'm Elsie, your host. I'm a home birth mom of two little boys. I'm a mental health nurse, a home birth advocate broadly, but also more specifically in the state of Victoria. And I'm an ex-student midwife. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people, who are the traditional custodians of the land I'm recording on in Melbourne, Australia. I would also like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres on country for tens of thousands of years prior to the British invasion and acknowledged that sovereignty has never been ceded. And this is episode 19 of Birthing at Home, a podcast. Today, Sarah from the Hunter Valley in New South Wales shares her incredible birth of Quinton, who was born at home just a few months ago. Sarah shares the challenges she faced in her first pregnancy over six years ago and how that impacted her hospital birth experience. And then she shares her amazing journey to having Quintin, which was also full of challenges, including a crazy ultrasound drama that goes to show the potential inaccuracies that are often not spoken about with ultrasounds. We talk about many great resources, so be sure to check them out in the description. Here we go. Welcome Sarah to the Birthing at Home, a podcast. Hi. Um, this has been a little while in the making because your, your littlest one is only three months. Um, and he's still, uh, acclimatizing to life, I guess. Yes. Um, do you want to give a little bit of backstory about who you are, um, where you live, et cetera, who's in your family? All right. Um, well, my name is Sarah. I have just moved up to the Hunter Valley at the start of this year. So originally we are from Sydney in New South Wales and I have two children with a very big age gap. My oldest is about to turn six and the littlest one is three months yesterday. So a bit of a Purposeful, but also surprised. Yeah. So we were one and done for a very, very long time. Actually on the 30th of October last year, we decided to have another baby. And here I am with a three-month-old year hater, which is a little crazy. Yeah. Yeah, so things happen very quickly, which is also very terrifying. I'm terrified of accidentally getting Oh gosh. Um, so I guess let's start with the story of six year old Addison because yeah, like one and one and done. Like, did you know, you know, six years ago, did you know about home birth? I knew it was an option, but I thought it was something that people did. Rurally, because you just live too far away from the hospital. Yeah. Um, we also didn't have that understanding of investing. in the birth. So originally I had wanted a private obstetrician because I couldn't imagine giving birth in the public system. Like who would do that? My mum had a private doctor with both me and my brother and it was just what you did. Like if you were well off and you had health insurance, you had a private obstetrician. I'm actually really grateful that we didn't have maternity cover, which I discovered when I was already pregnant. Like, oh, it's too late. Okay, shit. I guess I'm, Um, I guess I'm going to the public system. Yep. Um, so we did. Yeah. So I just thought it was something that people did really because you live too far from the hospital. Yeah. Um, ironically, I do live too far from the hospital for this birth. So even if I hadn't planned a home birth, I would have had him on the side of the highway, which is crazy. Yeah. But yeah. So I w I got a doula instead. Oh, cool. And, um, I read everything she gave me this massive, massive binder and I read it from head to toe. Um, and I still, I knew a lot, but I still didn't know enough about like that physiological process compared to like what I know now. Yep. Um, yeah. So I guess we just, I booked in with Black Town. Um, I had hyperemesis with Addison. Yep. Which was. Um, for those that don't know the vomiting sickness. Yeah. So I lost nine kilos in the first trimester with Addison, which I'm not a large person. I don't have a lot to spare. So that was pretty, uh, crazy. And then I gained those nine kilos back once I started being able to eat proper foods and everything. So that really affected how I felt about pregnancy, how I, you know, I was so limited, um, with working and. lot of resting and things like that. And it really affected my mental health. I went into the birth just already being so over it and so exhausted. And I was still vomiting up blood, like in labor and stuff as well. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was pretty intense. And I hadn't eaten for so long because, you know, nil by mouth and all that ridiculousness. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So her birth, I, she was actually born on her due date. Okay. Um, and it's quite, I don't even know where to start. It was a funny story. Like I had my, um, 40 week appointment a couple of days before she was due to be born. Yeah. And, um, she, I had, yeah, I was 30. I think I was 39 and five. Yep. I was 39 and five and I begged them for a stretch and sweet because that's just what you do. Like I'm so close to my due date. Yeah. I'm tired. I'm over. I'm exhausted. I cried in that appointment so much. I still remember that feeling of just, I was sore. She was a horrific side tangent, but she was a horrific. Mover in pregnancy. Yeah. So my husband used to hold my belly to give me some relief at night time. Oh my gosh. You know that scene from the movie? Um, I think it's Prometheus where like the alien is like moving inside her belly. Oh. And like bursts out. If she had burst out through my belly, I don't even think I would be surprised. She was insane. Absolutely insane. And especially if you're feeling so sick as well. Yeah. And I didn't gain much weight, so I didn't have a lot of stomach stretching space to be able to move. So she didn't really have a lot of space. Yeah. Oh yeah. So we had an IGR scare at like 38 weeks. My midwife had sent me for an emergency ultrasound within that hour because I was 38 weeks and measuring 34 centimeters. Okay. And so that was kind of indicative to be like wanting her out, worried about a small baby and like really being questioning like, should I be induced and all that? In the end, they decided that she was fine to stay in there. So they kind of just left me, which I guess was better, you know, natural and physiological processes and all that. But I was so over it, like just emotionally done. So I'm. I feel like that's important to the story because that's what I'm carrying into her labor. Yeah. So on 39 and six, I woke up at like 7 a.m. and my waters had broken. I really thought I'd peed myself. Yeah, yeah. But it just kind of kept coming and I had tested positive for GBS. So we went in. Yeah. And we went in there from 10 a.m. on that Saturday morning until she was born the next day. Yeah. But labor never started. being induced. Okay. Um, and they didn't induce me until 11 PM that night. Yep. Even though I'd agreed to it. And the midwife there was so rude. Like the chief midwife was like, by the time I finally agreed to be induced, she was like, now we don't have time for you. You could have agreed hours ago. You could have already had your baby by now. I'm doing the right thing by try. I was doing stair walking. with my drip, like carrying it up and down the stairs to try and get this natural labor started. And I was exhausting myself. I should have, I wish I had stayed home, but you know, doing the right thing with GBS and not knowing enough about that aspect either to know that it's really not as dangerous as people believe that we've been made to believe that it is. Like the infection itself is so dangerous. the chance of getting that infection, even if positive in labor, four weeks after testing is so, so minimal. Yeah. It's ridiculous. Yeah. I'll make sure to include, I know that, is it like Sarah Wickham or maybe Rachel Reid has some- Sarah Wickham. Yeah. I'll make sure I link that in the description. Yes. And Great Birth Rebellion does an amazing podcast on it. And so does a nutritionist by the name of Celine Douglas. Hey guys, just to avoid any confusion in case you go looking for the episode from Celine Douglas on GBS, it actually is about gestational diabetes and she does one on iron management as well. Okay. So I listened to three different podcasts on GBS for this pregnancy. So I didn't test for that. Yeah. So did you do any like education kind of stuff with the pregnancy of Addison? in terms of GBS. Just in general as well. Only what my doula had given me more about physiological birth and like exercise in pregnancy and staying upright and, you know, trying to avoid all those interventions and stuff like that. Yeah. Okay. Yep. I guess, yeah, in education, but at the same time, I still had never done it before, so in my own head, I'm like, can I even do this? Yeah. And I think like we're in such a, um, vulnerable state, but at the, at the moment we're in like, you know, the great birth rebellion exists, the midwives cauldron exists, like the right, no, like six years ago that's, um. Yeah. 2017. Yeah. So yeah, now in 2023, I feel like you have no excuse for not, like it's so accessible to find this information now. I really agree. And especially like if you want to test for GBS, I am so for that. If that is the right step for you. Yeah. But I knew based on what happened with Addison and I had so many antibiotics and went home from the hospital with thrush. Yeah. Well, I had some health issues already last year. regarding like overuse of antibiotics with my own personal history that I'm just like, I can't afford to have unnecessary antibiotics in my body. Yeah. And I, regardless of whether they reach my baby or not. Yeah. And yeah, I think that's still an ongoing thing about, um, yeah, antibiotic resistance and like how it actually impacts you long term. But, um, yeah. And there's so many things out there at the moment saying like, we're going to have zero antibiotics for us in like 2035. Yeah. And I'm like, that's not even that far away. Yeah. It's really scary. It is scary. Um, so you were walking, walking upstairs and doing all of the things with Addison. Yeah. And I finally agreed to be induced at like 6 PM at nighttime. My doula, we called her and she's like, no, like you're tired. Agree to the induction. Your waters have already broken. You'll be okay. Okay. And I, and I agreed. Yeah. And, um, They were like, Oh, we don't have time for you anymore. So I was still not even in a room at this point, just in the, I don't know, birth thing area, like pre-maternity. Yep. Um, so they finally found me a room at like 10 PM or something like that. And my daughter was so angry at this point. She's like, they should just let you go to sleep. You've had a baby already by 11 PM, 10 PM. If you have been induced at 6 PM kind of thing. Still hadn't eaten anything. Um. Yeah. And so they, they hooked me up. My husband actually was cold. My husband who sleeps in a pair of shorts in winter with zero blankets and gets upset at me was freezing. Yeah. In December in Australia, the hospital went to Kmart to go and get a jumper. He left me. Oh my gosh. It was only like an hour, but still it was a very long hour considering how close Kmart was. So I finally hooked up. I had that very first contraction and. I was on the floor immediately collapsed. Wow. It was zero to a hundred. I mean, also I had never felt a true contraction before. Yeah. I couldn't breathe. They were already 30 seconds apart, like instantly. Yeah. All high peaks, no break in between them whatsoever. I couldn't breathe. Of course I'm hooked up to the belly monitors as you do. And I tried to refuse. those because I knew, I knew enough that I could stand my own ground and say, no, it's unnecessary. I don't need it. Yeah. I had a student midwife as part of my midwifery group program. Okay. And she was actually on call. She was working when I was, had, when I was being induced, paid to be at my birth, which was pretty awesome for her. Yeah. And, um, She came back and she's like, it's hospital policy. And I just felt so guilty for like arguing with her, with her. I relented and agreed to be monitored. Yeah. They made it so much worse. Those belly monitors that contract like for the contractions. Yeah. They are so painful, so uncomfortable. Yeah. Well, you're like, it's like very restricting and like it's really is, um, really is. Like when I was a student midwife, you were constantly having to read, like read. attach them and move them around and then you, it's not listening to Baby's Heart Late. So you got to like move it again and reset it and tighten it and oh, we need new bands now and oh, It's so, so annoying. I hate them so much. Yeah. And I think there's so many like tangents I can go on. There's not even enough evidence to support them anymore and all that ridiculousness. Yeah. But yeah, so I had that and I think I labored for about an hour, but to me it felt like five minutes. And, um, I demanded they, they switch it off. I was like, turn it all off. I don't care. Like she can stay in. I don't care. Get rid of it. And my husband was back at that time and I was falling asleep on the bed, sitting up, um, because it was midnight. Yeah. And, um, he, thank God for him, because I made him read everything as well. And, um, the. Some doctor was trying to convince me to consent for a cesarean. Bearing in mind, I'd been one hour on the induction drugs, falling asleep. Yep. Falling asleep on the bed, sitting up and my husband said, enough, get outside. I need to talk to you. And he basically said, you were trying to get her to consent to something. She isn't even coherent enough to process, turn everything off, give us one hour. Get out, leave us alone. And that's it. God, that's amazing. Go him. Like he saved me from having a cesarean. What? Um, yeah. So, and he, the doctor offered an epidural and we called my doula and she said, if they're offering it to you right now, take it because the chances of you needing it. And if you had one available by the time you actually asked for it and all that jazz, so I got the epidural, which is, I didn't want it. But she said, if you're not coping with the contractions, you're not going to relax. You're not going to let your body do what it needs to do in conjunction with the induction drugs. Yeah. So I got the epi and, um, I slept immediately. And that was about, by the time that was all done and reset up, it was about one to 32 AM. Yeah. I woke up for every contraction. I held Robert's hands with the epi and went straight back to sleep in between each one. Yeah. It was wild. Like, I still felt every contraction, not to the same intensity, of course. Yep. But yeah, I, yeah, it was crazy. And my midwife sat there watching the computer, watching me the entire time. Um, so it was about 5.30 PM, 5.30 AM. Sorry. Yep. I woke up and I was like, My pelvis has opened, it's time to push. Yeah. There was another midwife in the room. She goes, no, it's not. It's been like three hours. And I'm like, no, no. I felt my pelvis completely. Like I'm talking with my hands. You can't see. Yeah. Completely just opened. I was like, it's, it's opened. It's shifted. It's time. So she checked me and she's like, Oh, you're 10 centimeters. Oh, we hadn't called my daughter. Like she wasn't there. Yeah. I had a birth photographer with the first hello. Yeah. So they hadn't come either. Yeah. We'd let them know that like things are happening. We'll call you when we need you and stuff like that. Yeah. And, um, I was like, okay, cool. Well, I'm going to wait. So I, we called them and I waited. I just held on. Yeah. Um, yeah. For about 45 minutes, maybe, or they got there about six 30. So about an hour by the time they got themselves organized, which I was fine. I was like, she's still going to move down the birth canal. She was still like right at the top of the canal. Yeah. I wasn't worried. I was quite happy to hold her in until they got there. Yeah. Um, yeah. So it was, I waited the hour and they both got there and, um, I had them switch off the epidural while I was waiting for them because I knew that I didn't want to push on my back. Um, and I wanted to get on all fours and you can do not a walking epidural, but yeah, being able to feel more. Um, especially since it was time to push, I really knew that I needed to feel things. I knew coach pushing was bad or not recommended. Um, and you know, in order to protect my pelvic floor and all of that. Um, yeah. So then I pushed for. 45 minutes, which apparently I feel like that's a long time, but apparently isn't for a first baby. My midwife's told me she pushed for four hours with her first and I was like, oh my God. I think I pushed for two, so for me that's short as well. Yeah, yeah. So 45 is pretty decent. It was a little bit of coach pushing. I couldn't feel as much, but I could still feel her. um moving it was quite funny because after every push i was like is the head out is the head out and my daughter's like honey you're not even close and i was like oh okay um i know i was just like one push right that's how it is in the movies right oh and they asked me and i feel like this is important um i was just felt so removed from pregnancy and like the labor process and vote so disconnected. They asked me if I wanted a mirror. They asked me if I wanted to touch and I was like, oh my God, no. Like why would anybody wanna look at anything that's happening down there? Yeah. And it was just so, yeah, I feel like it really spoke to how I felt about the whole process and how I was within that process. It just so removed emotionally and disconnected that I ended up, yeah, I just, yeah, I had undiagnosed antinatal depression for sure. Yeah. Okay. Which is unsurprising given everything. Yeah. So I ended up going on my side with one leg up slightly with my dula helping to hold my leg and yeah, and then she was born. Yep. So after 45 minutes. After more than one push. And I had... Yeah, after a lot more than one push. Um, and she was 2.9 kilos. Oh wow. Um, yeah. So six pounds, seven ounces. Yeah. Um, bigger than we thought. I was told, oh my gosh, side tangent, but I was told at my 38 week ultrasound that maybe I wouldn't have a small baby if I didn't starve myself. No, a hundred percent. That was by the black town. radiology ultrasound department. They said that. She had no idea why I was there. Just, you know, 38 week growth scan. She had no idea that I had hyperemesis, that I was actually eating better than I was in the first trimester. Um, and I had a lot of carbs. Like I should have been huge. That was all I could keep down. All I wanted was carbohydrates. Oh my gosh. Yep. So she, we thought she was going to be 2.5 kilos. So when she came out 2.9, I was like, holy crap. I mean, given the whole IV fluids and inflated birth weight and all that stuff, I think she probably was closer to 2.7. Yeah. Um, by the time you take all that into account. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I was pretty stoked. I know, I know, I know. And my husband and midwife were in the room and they didn't even hear her. Oh my God. I know I was, and to this day, my husband doesn't remember it, but I do cause I remember, um, Two weeks was last week or this week. I had a Facebook, I made a Facebook status about it six years ago, just in horror about how I was treated. And yeah, it was insane. But yeah, relevant because we thought she was only going to be so small, but she was way bigger than expected. So I was pretty stoked with that. Yeah. And I just remember. pulling her onto my chest and I just didn't feel anything. Yeah, well. I was so exhausted because I've been awake for, you know, 30, I don't know, 24 hours-ish. Yeah, I mean, I did sleep for the couple of hours in labor, but I don't think that counts. No, it doesn't. It really doesn't count. A restful sleep. No, it's not a restful sleep. No. Yeah, so I was just emotionally spent. I hadn't eaten anything. cause they were worried, you know, back then it was still like, you don't eat for risk of caesarian and aspiration and all of that stuff. And um, yeah, it was, so that was pretty much that. I had a small tear and which they sutured, which I learned afterwards should not have even been sutured. It was so minuscule. I had my private midwife look at it this time and she's like that, that's ridiculous. That could have healed naturally, but you know, hospital policy is anything more than a graze. Wow. Is sutured. Yeah. So that was Addison. And what was your like postpartum, you know, having... Oh yeah... postnatal anxiety, depression, what not. Yep. So I was diagnosed with postnatal at nine weeks. Put on medication. She... it didn't help either that she was a very challenging baby. She screamed for the first seven months of her life until we saw a baby Cairo. Yeah, I had her diagnose. Hello. I had a diagnosed, not diagnosed. I sought out a tongue tied diagnosis for her because I had such trouble breastfeeding. Um, at six weeks, they said she didn't have one and I cried because I just wanted that to be the answer. So, so much. It, I would have, she wasn't slow to gain. Yeah. She wasn't gaining heaps, but it wasn't awful. It was just average. Yeah. But I had such excruciating pain and she was feeding for like an hour at a time and then would scream all the time. My husband would let me sleep and he would pace the hallways with her at like four o'clock in the morning so that I could recover from, you know, the horror that is that childbirth. So that was unsurprising that it was, you know, moved into postnatal depression and severe anxiety because she just never slept and screamed all the time. Um, and I, I respect the medication. Yeah. I, it made me numb. So there's a lot of her first 18 months or so that I just can't really recall. Um, I respected in that it got me through where, what, where I need it because I was this close to leaving. Um, I actually called the doctor saying my baby won't stop crying and she wasn't concerned with that. She was more concerned with me. And then. called my husband at work who said, you need to go home to your wife immediately. So he packed up and left and I had just put her in her cot screaming as per the doctor's orders and just sat in her room. Just, I wasn't crying. I was just sitting there waiting. It was, yeah. I'm getting a bit emotional about it now, which is crazy because I didn't have any emotions regarding that. I just couldn't do it. Yeah. Well then, I guess, no wonder you waited six years. What? Like one and done for a reason, that's what a... One and done for a huge reason. Yeah. Wow. And I was just like, if this is what it's like, I don't want it. Yeah, totally understandable. Yep, yep. Wow. And she, once she started moving and talking and was on the go, every year has gotten better. Yeah. We didn't have the terrible twos because it can't possibly get worse than what it was. So to me she was amazing at two, amazing at three. Hey! And it just got better and she's so, so ridiculously smart. I know every parent thinks that about their kids, but people come up to me and they're just like, are you sure she's only five? And once she learned to talk, she just spoke in paragraphs from the get-go pretty much. She just observed everything around her and was like, okay, cool. I'm ready to start talking. And it was, yeah, full sentences, full paragraphs. It was wild. Yeah. And she was so happy after that. Yeah. And Kyra of course. But yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, so what did she, what was she like when she found out she was going to be a big sister? She was over the moon. Yeah. Um, Yes, we, she knew almost before we did. So I found out I was pregnant at about two and a half weeks. Yep. Cause my period was late and I had taken out my IUD for health reasons. Also it was going to come out regardless of whether we were having another baby. My husband was booked in for a vasectomy that month. as well and um so like November this time last year actually yeah and um yes i'd taken it out and i really thought i should have a period so i was just testing and testing and testing and i didn't get a positive test until i was six weeks pregnant technically from the date of my last period yeah and um i don't know how she knew she started talking about babies and we hadn't said anything to her and um she just I don't know. It was weird. She just was like, Oh, like, we're going to have a baby. And I was like, how do you know? Can you hear him? Yeah. This one's a very much a talker. Yeah. And she just, yeah, she just knew it was very strange. Yeah. Yes. So I took myself off to the doctor's, expecting to be six weeks pregnant. And I was so confused because I had got a positive test at the day after my period with Addison, because I hadn't tested early, I hadn't expected it to be the first time we tried, which we are extremely blessed and very scared. That had happened both times. Like I have conception dates marked in my calendar because I knew exactly when it was and it's very scary. Yeah, so they couldn't see anything. And they were like, no, you can't be passed four weeks, you must be wrong. Um, which I'm like, I'm not wrong. I track everything. Yeah. And, um, so I waited two agonizing weeks. Yeah. Oh, what's wrong? And I went back at six weeks and they're like, yep. Okay. You're now, I went back at what was then eight weeks and they're like, yep. Now you're six weeks pregnant. We can see something. So the, you know, gestational age, um, of the fetus is four weeks, six weeks when you take into account. period yeah I was like technically we're eight weeks but whatever yeah that's why it's a guest date right because there's so many different versions right ridiculous but I just think as well the IUD had made me ovulate later yeah and we just were lucky and happened to catch it at the right time yeah which yeah so very lucky yeah Cause I just assumed once you took it out, it would go back to normal. So I was like, yep, two weeks, you know, make a baby and um, yeah, very lucky. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I guess also going back to, you know, this experience with Addison, like I, I suppose like, you know, once you decided that you would have like, you know, a try for another baby. Yep. What kind of What's your thought process in? I don't want that to happen again. Like is that when you started to look at the home birth or? So I had started, I had been researching and learning everything I could about births for the last couple of years. Okay. Um, I learned so much about breech birth. No idea why it just fascinated me. Yep. Um, I could probably do a breech birth cause I know all the things that you're supposed to do. Yeah. Um, I just. In my mind or deep down, I was just like, my experience can't be the way that it's supposed to be. Yeah. And I had always said no, no to another baby because it was just easier than dealing with all the emotions that came with accepting to have one. Um, and, and dealing with all of that PTSD essentially. Yeah. Um, yes. So I had actually contacted. um a midwife or a bunch of midwives up here because we knew we were moving up to the Hunter Valley yeah um at the start of this year and I didn't want to give birth at Singleton Hospital yeah which would be my closest one which ironically is much nicer than Maitland now yeah um but I to me in my mind I was like oh my goodness that's a hole I can't possibly give birth there my experience would be even worse than Blacktown yeah um Yeah, you agree. And it's actually very nice now. It's been redone and it's apparently a very nice space. But yeah, I contacted, I think it's the Home Birth Movement Newcastle. And she sent me a bunch of people to get in contact with. I sent them all a really long text explaining what I wanted. Like I didn't want GBS testing. I didn't want to test for gestational diabetes because I've done a lot of reading on that as well. Yeah. And who I wanted a midwife that would support me in those choices or at least help me do more research and education as to why I would or wouldn't test for those. Yeah. And my beautiful midwife, Ineka, replied to me and I had two phone consults with two different midwives and I just. She she ordered me blood tests before even signing on with her. So we could get a baseline because she knew I didn't want to test for gestational diabetes. And I hadn't even said yes to her yet. Does that like, she didn't even know I was going to be a client of hers. And she was just so willing to help me. And for me, that's what sealed the deal. Like I just trusted my gut and was like, I think this is the right person for us. Yeah. And I still at that point hadn't even I planned for a home birth. I just knew I needed that continuous pre and postnatal care to make my experience different. Cause I wasn't sure if I was gonna have hyperemesis again and what my pregnancy was gonna look like and all of that jazz. So we moved, I was seven weeks pregnant on the day which was a story in itself because the night before we'd gone to pick up our six week ultrasound results from the doctor, you know, they get sent back and. We did that the night before. We didn't have Addison. She was sleeping at my mother-in-law's house just to make moving easier. And then we just collect her on the way up because it's a bit of a, it's about a two hour drive where we moved away from. And the ultrasound said there was no heartbeat. Oh, great. Yeah. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? What do you mean? She showed it to me. She said, congratulations. It was 140 beats a minute. I remember what it was. Yeah. And the doctor was like, I'm very sorry. And I'm like, fine, write me a new thing. I'm going for an ultrasound. I have to do it before I move because I was, I had no idea. I didn't have a GP up here. I had no idea where anything was. I just felt. lost when I was moving up here. I'm like, I have zero medical anything up here. If my baby has passed, that's fine. But I need to know, do I have to start this medical process? Am I going to suddenly get very sick moving house? Do we need to delay the move? We had the option too, because we're both on school holidays being teachers. I couldn't, I didn't want to be half through moving house. trying to clean a rental. I didn't want to be having this, you know, septic. Yeah. If I had no heartbeat, it was, had been a week already since that ultrasound. Why hadn't I miscarried? Why hadn't my body taken care of this process? That's so weird. I know. I know. I know. I know. This whole pregnancy has been wild. Um, so on moving day, I called all these places. And I got myself an ultrasound at 9 a.m. around the corner. And I was so heightened. Like you can hear it in my voice now. I was just like, Oh my God. Um, because I knew I needed it done there. I needed to stay like my husband could move, but I needed to take care of this process because I was terrified of getting sick and bedridden and everything. Yeah. Um, the lady was so beautiful and she gave me an ultrasound and she's like, I took the report with me and she said, we're going to ignore this. We'll just start from scratch and see how we go. And she showed me the heartbeat and she's like, no, that is a beautiful seven week old baby. And so, yeah, I was livid and relieved at the same time. So what the heck happened? How did that? I called the place that I went to because obviously I went to a different ultrasound place. Yeah. And I was so angry and explained the situation. Turns out they'd looked at the wrong ultrasound to write the report. So they've read someone else's ultrasound and I was like, I'm sorry. So you have different medical, like different medical files open in front of you while you're trying to do the job and cause me unnecessary stress. Oh my God. And I've never go back there. This same place then called me in May. So we moved in January. Yeah. I got a phone call in May saying I'd missed a doctor's appointment. And I'm like, what are you talking about? I. Or I had ultrasound results ready to pick up in May and I was like, I live two hours away. I have not visited you. What are you doing? And they're like, Oh, well, we must have assigned your phone number to someone else's file. I'm like, how the F do you do that? Like, what are you doing with these people's files? Honestly. So never going back there. Gosh, what the heck? So you had that whole awful skin experience, which I just, I. Like what the heck? What the heck because- I know right? Putting our faith in all these sounds. Because basically they were saying that your baby or the fetus was dead. Like- So what if I hadn't had sort had, yeah, sought out another opinion and just said, Oh yeah, okay. I'll just take a pill. Well, I can make it pass. Anyways. Yes. So I know, I know. So you got the confirmation. Yep. So we moved house. Yes. So we had a baby. You've moved house, told Addison on moving day and then regretted that choice. Cause I was like, Oh my God, she can't keep a secret. So we moved in with my mom and dad up here and I wanted to surprise them because, you know, we're one and done. No one is expecting this from us at all. And I wanted to take a photo with her holding a baby onesie that I bought on Etsy that said plot twist. And I'll send you the photo. It was so good. Oh, best ever. And I think I got a photo with him as well. Like, of course. And I'm like, I need to take the photo and print the photo and then find time to give it to them. And every day she's like, is it time yet? Is it time yet? I'm like, it's not time. Stop asking. We couldn't, I know, like we couldn't say anything without fear, but I think because we were so hyper aware and they just were so, you know, that's the last thing on their mind. They didn't pick up on any cues or signals or anything like that. She almost gave it away at Christmas as well. And she's like, can we tell everyone about the baby? And she's literally whispering that loudly. And I like freaked out and I'm like, Oh, about my friends, baby. Yeah. They already know about it. I just was panicked the whole time because I obviously wasn't drinking. Yeah. And around Christmas time. Yeah. And I put it down to like new medication that I was on for my health issues. And I'm like, I'm not supposed to be drinking and my one of my husband's brothers when we sent the announcement photo to him was like, Oh, see, I thought so. And I was like, no, you did not. And he's like, yeah, I did. You weren't drinking and I make myself sound like an alcoholic, which I'm not. But I was like, I told you, I was sick. Like there's a difference. And he's like, no, you were pregnant. So I was just like, Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That annoyed me so much. Um, anyway, yeah. And then, um, I met, finally met an Eka and, um, Yeah, things just, you know, we had a big birth debrief session similar to this, um, of how Addison's birth went and what I wanted differently. And she's honestly the most nurturing soul I've ever met. Um, which is so strange for me at first because I'm so not a nurture. Yeah. I'm not a guy. I'm kind. I'm not a gentle patient person and she is just breath of fresh air she is absolutely beautiful. Yeah. And yeah so then... So sorry was she a kind of like a... Private practicing midwife. Yeah cool so she works by herself and then gets other midwives to be the second. Yes yes so she has other... yes so I wasn't too confident with that in terms of who was gonna be there. Um, because you just never know who's available. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, you don't even know if your midwife is available depending on when you go into labor. Yeah. Um, but you know, I, I knew that I would get to know her and that would be the right choice and she was going to be there. So between her and my husband, I didn't really need anyone else. Yep. Um, so it didn't matter who was there and I still wasn't set on the home birth when we first met her, I think I was about nine-ish weeks. Yep. I just really needed to know a bit more about it. Yeah. And I can't even remember when that changed. I think it was just... I don't even think we discussed it. It just went from being unsure to prepping for a home birth. One day. It was just somewhere along the end of that first trimester. I was just like, well, yeah, I'll give birth here. Like, why wouldn't I? It was just so weird. I think because I started listening to all the Great Birth Rebellion and a lot of the Midwives Cauldron podcasts. And I love Rachel Reed so much. And yeah, I just kind of fell in love with the whole idea of I can do this and my body was made to do this and all of that. Yeah. And you said your husband's name is Robert? Yes, he is. And so what were his like initial thoughts about all of this? He was... He wasn't reserved. He is very much more scientifically inclined than I am. Okay, yes. So he was like, if the evidence is saying that this is a better process and there's enough evidence to support home birth and I would get, I would send in the podcast and say I need you to tell me the statistics, tell me what this means. Yeah. Because they would talk about it on the Great Birth Rebellion and I'm like, is this good or is this bad? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he was basically like, look, the science says you'll be fine. And I'm like, great, I'll be fine. Yeah. So he was really on board with that and he's very much a, this is your body. This is your choice. And I'll support you in that. I, he knows I'm not the person to be so risk adverse to make the wrong choice. Yeah. Um, Especially like we were faced with that towards the end of the pregnancy as well, where I was like, okay, do I need to give up my idea of a home birth to protect my baby? Yeah. Which I 100% would have done. Yeah. Devastating as that is. Yeah. If it came to it and he needed immediate after life care, yep, done, would have done it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, he trusted me and he's like, it's not, I can't force you to do anything. Like it's your body. You have to be comfortable and then I will support you in that. So I'm very lucky. Yeah. in that regard because I know not a lot of husbands are terrified. Yeah. And I think more because they're terrified of losing their partner. Yeah. In labor, because things do happen. Yeah. And but yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's really great that I would say, yeah, that kind of. Prevents just like passive listening, you know, if you're like, oh, by the way, I need you to actually tell me like. what this podcast is actually saying. I think that's empowering for him obviously as well. So that's awesome. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And like, what about family or friends? So my sister-in-law is a nurse and she actually had a home birth with her boy in June last year. Oh cool. And I was very lucky because obviously we moved in, I said earlier with my mum and dad and my mum was very, very terrified of my sister-in-law having a home birth. Yep. To the point where I actually, my sister-in-law would come to me and say, I need you, like, this is what's going on. I need you to step in again. And I'm like, yep, no worries. I'll do that. Yep. And I basically said to mom, it's not your body. It's not your baby. It's not even your daughter. It's not your choice. You have to back off. If I trust anyone to have a home birth. It would be her. She's a nurse. She's in the medical profession. Yeah. She she knows. Yeah. And yeah, once I think once he was successfully born my mom was like, oh, okay. Because I mean I me and my brother were born in the 90s and you just that was the era of blindly trusting the doctor and blindly trusting the midwives. And when they say you're not making enough milk. Okay, cool. You just do formula. Like that's the era that I'm from. Yeah. So it was a big learning curve for her. So I was very lucky that I didn't have to fight with her about that, because at the end of the day, this is their house and I wanted to birth here. Oh, of course. Yeah. I've actually seen. So she could have put her foot down. Yeah. I've actually seen. some, a question like that in the Home Birth Australia group recently and being like, Oh, my, my in-laws or my parents or something, they won't let us at home. And so people were like, Oh, go to an Airbnb. Yeah. Did you do any extra education or anything like that with the pregnancy of Quinton? Um, yes. So just, I listened to a podcast every time I was in the car on my way to work. Um, really just, and readings, the home birth Australia, uh, Facebook group for stories and just really learning about the physiological process. So a lot of, um, I know people dislike Facebook and Instagram, but I think there's such valuable tools to get that information out there. Um, especially for, you know, breastfeeding, birthing processes, antinatal depression, like all of those. Aspects that I just swept under the rug from my mom's era. Yeah, I Think there's such valuable tools. So a lot of learning on Instagram and reading and following midwives and birthing Pages and all of that stuff. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, I also did some pre-birth counseling sessions because It was quite it was funny. My midwife had said I was her easygoing relaxed, nothing phased me client until about 32 weeks and we had a meeting and she goes, oh I tell what you know what are you thinking and I just lost it. I broke down and I was like I am so terrified of not feeling anything when he's born because that was my experience with Addison and she goes oh there it is. And so she referred me to this amazing lady who I recommend to everybody. So I had my sessions with her via Zoom, even though she's in Newcastle. And she is a psychotherapist. Her name's Tamara. And I comment her on everything. I was like, go and see Tamara, go and see Tamara. She was amazing. And my first fear we talked about was me wanting time. alone. I knew my mum and dad will obviously meet the baby and be here like you know within that first day I didn't get a choice about that but I was worried that my mother-in-law would want to come up straight away and nothing against her she is amazing and was a little apprehensive about the whole home birth aspect but I was just you know this is her second grandbaby like ever as well. I just was worried that she would want to come up like literally the next day. And I just, I didn't want that. I wanted time. Yeah. I wanted to feel ready. So she helped me work through that. And our second session was envisioning the birth and I just couldn't envision how my birth would go. And I felt stuck and overwhelmed. And she had me close my eyes and it was amazing. And she's just tell me what you see. And I was in this super dark, grey, cloudy swimming pool in the middle of nowhere. So just in the middle of a field, like very vast expanse. And I was standing on the outside of the pool and she goes, OK, hop in the pool. And I go, I can't. It's not time yet. And for me, it was like, you know, I'm 32 or 34, 36 weeks. It wasn't time to get in the pool. It was not time for labor. I knew it wasn't coming soon. And she's like, who's there with you? And anyway, it was this big emotional uncovering, imagining what my birth would be like and so many metaphors that came out of that. So when I finally was like, okay, yeah, I can hop in the pool. Where's Rob and Ineka? And she's like, can they get in with you? And I was like, no, they can't hop in. And it was such a... metaphor in itself because while they can physically get in the pool, when in the actual birth, you're still doing everything on your own. Like you are alone in that birthing process, which sounds really depressing. But for me, it was just, uh, I knew they were there. They could pull me out of the pool. They could pull me, they could help me, but I was alone in that gray pool storm cloud. the whole flurry that is labor. Yeah. And that really helped me see that I was safe. Like they could pull me out. They could help hold me afloat above out of the pool. Yeah. And I was feeling really overwhelmed with all the podcasts that I was listening to at the time of this session. Yeah. And Tamara said, okay, we need to take some of that information out of your brain. What don't you need to know yet? What is past? Yeah. So, you know, you didn't test for gestational diabetes. We don't need that information anymore. How can we remove that? Where are we going to put it? And I have this problem where when I don't want to look at something anymore, I just go put it in the garage in my house. In my dream, right. There's that. That's a metaphor. She's like, where we got to put it in the garage. Yeah. Oh, we had the best session. It was so good. Um, yeah. And so she's like, why do you need to stop listening to podcasts? And I was like, yep, I do. I do. I have enough information required. I now need to almost hunker down. And I was getting so much outside stimulation from like girls chats and, and you know, I, um, and I was an admin for like a local page in my community, like a mom's group. And I just left. I was like, nah, I'm done. I'm done admitting. I said to the girls, I need to leave the group chat. I need to do it for me. And that was the day before. So we're tangenting into the next section. Yeah. Um, the day before I had the IGR scare with him. Yeah. So again, small baby. Um, and I'd have been having reduced fetal movements because I had an interior placenta, not that slowed him down because if I hadn't had an interior placenta, Oh my God, I definitely could have been the star on Prometheus again. Yeah. I was so grateful for that placenta. Thank God. Oh my goodness, because this kid does not stop moving. Even right now I'm watching him and he's just like, like a jelly bean, jumping jelly bean. He's ridiculous. And I'd had reduced movements and I'd brought it up to my midwife a couple of times and she's like, how do you feel about this? And I'm like, I'm okay. He moves. He's just moving less for him. I just want to sit with her and see how we feel. Yeah. Um, and all that. And then on the, I think I was 37 and Six? Yep. Oh no, 37 and three, I don't know. It was almost 38 weeks. Yep. Or almost 37 weeks. Anyway, it gets so fuzzy these days. Would you, were you back at work? No, so I'd stopped work now. Yep, yep, yep. Yep, so I worked about to 34 weeks, had a break for the school holidays, and then I went back and did one day just to maximize. the time between the Centrelink pay. I was worried if I'd gone, if I went to like 43 weeks, I wouldn't have worked enough and my break would have been too big to get the Centrelink money. So I had to do one day and I did my one day and I was like, I'm free. Done. So I was off work and she was like, look, your belly measurement's not great. We know he's so low. He was so, so low. I was surprised he was still in there. Um, she's like, if I could just look in and see a hedge, like, yeah, okay, cool. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Um, she's like, how are you walking? And I was like, I don't know. I really don't know. Yeah. And she's like, she's like, I'm starting to now get a little worried with the reduced movements, the lowered belly measurement. Yeah. And I said, yeah, I think so too. She's like, there's two options. You can do a full ultrasound. or you can just get the MCAs and the Dopplers. So I don't know if you know what those are. No. The Doppler is the measurement of the blood flowing through the cord from the placenta to the baby. Okay. And the MCA is the brain flow in the baby's brain. The brain flow, the blood flow in the baby's brain. So if those numbers, and there's a whole bunch of numbers that my husband did some research on for me as well. Yeah. as my midwife and I don't remember any of those numbers. I was just like, tell me what to do. Yeah. Um, and if those numbers look good, everything's fine. Your placenta is not failing. Um, your baby doesn't have a growth restriction. Um, and so we, we looked into Rachel Reed's research on that. And, um, yeah, I asked for her opinion on Um, she's like, I'm not giving medical advice, but look at MCAs and look at Doppler's and make your decision from there. And um, and then my midwife saw another very prominent person in the midwifery community. I can't remember who it was, but you know, we sat there and explained everything on what we should do. Yep. Um, yeah. So anyway, we did the, the growth scan the next day and um, another ultrasound story. So the lady in the ultrasound is like, should I be looking for a left kidney? And I'm like, um, yes, you should. Yes. Please find everything that is supposed to be there. I decided to go for everything. Okay. Yeah. And, um, she goes, I can't find it. I'm like, what do you mean you can't find a kidney? It was there at the, um, 20 week scan, which I also had two morphology scans because They predicted he was like, had weird growth then as well, like 90th percentile head. And oh my goodness, I had a marginal cord insertion. Oh yeah, yeah. And we were like, okay, that's weird. It wasn't picked up at 12 weeks. So my midwife was like, let's send you for another morphology scan. So I did that, wasn't mentioned. So I was like, okay, cool. Yeah. And the measurements for the baby came back 75th percentile. So I was like, great. Yep. Normal size baby all round, normal cord. Yeah. So yeah, no 37 week ultrasound had the marginal cord insertion picked up again. Yep. And the kid and new kidney issues. What the heck? And his abdominal circumference was 3% according to the ultrasound measurement. Yeah. And head was. I think head was 15, but by the time you average everything out, we were looking at a ninth percentile baby. Right. And I left. And anyway, she called in another ultrasound tech to find the kidney and they finally found it and it was like half the size that it was supposed to be. So I left there on the way to pick up Addison, bawling my eyes out on the phone to my midwife. Yeah. Being like, Oh my God, she's like, okay, all right. She got the report. called Maitland, no called John Hunter hospital and was like, what do we do? What do we need to do? Because this is now like a medical situation. She's like, we've got this ninth percentile baby with an extremely tiny abdomen. The Dopplers and MCAs look good, so we know everything's okay, but kidney issues, what is this baby's immediate birth care gonna look like, right? Yeah. So we traipse to Maitland the next morning. She met me there at like 9 a.m. And they weren't happy with the Cessna results. which is the hospital that I got it done at. Yeah. And um. they sent me for another ultrasound. I waited, so this is 9 a.m., I waited until 6 p.m. for that ultrasound. What? Oh my God. Yep, my midwife was like, I have to leave you. My dad came and hung out with me for a while and brought me like my iPad and snacks and stuff like that. What? Because I thought I would end up. Why did it take so long? Oh ho, Maitland, the worst hospital in New South Wales, even according to the birth stats. Oh my gosh. Yep. And he had to leave. He, I was like, go and get Addison from school for me. And then my husband left work. He works in the city, in Newcastle and came and met me at the hospital. Cause I wanted him and I was like, mom and dad can look after Addison, get her whatever she wants, McDonald's, whatever. I don't know how long I'm going to be. I don't know if I was going to be induced tonight. Like I had no idea what the situation was. Yeah. Um, that ultrasound lady. That Maitland Hospital was so rude to me as well. She held me down on the bed. I was having contractions of Braxton Hinks at the time. Held me down while I was trying to get comfortable. I had to lay flat for the ultrasound, which I never had to do. A Cessnox sat me up slightly. She made me lay flat on the bed and was holding my legs when I was trying to just shift through the uncomfortableness of the Braxton Hinks. What? Cried because she said I... I cried because she said I didn't need an ultrasound because I had one yesterday. And I was like, that's not for you to decide. The birth unit has ordered another one to see and get secondary measurements because they're not convinced of the findings of Cessna. Yeah. I have just so over ultrasounds. Oh my gosh. So yeah. Yep. So I was crying through this ultrasound. Yeah. We went back up to birth unit. Yeah, went back up to birth unit afterwards, waiting for the results. I had an obstetrician come in and was like, no, everything looks fine. The kidney looks fine. The baby's come back looking all normal. You can go home. And I was like, great. We went home at like, I don't know, 830, 9 p.m. at night. Yeah. So my midwife the next day and she was like, well, what do we do? And I was like. I don't like the fact that both ultrasounds are so different. I feel like we need a third one for more information. I don't know. I'm like, how? My baby can't go from being ninth percentile to baby to being like a 25th average percentile baby overnight. Like that doesn't happen. And I'm like, the kidney can't go from looking way too small to looking normal. Like, not. So she's like, all right, let's wait a week. and go back to Cessna because that was the weird ultrasound place. Yep. And I was like, yep, cool. So we did it on 38 and one, I think. Yep. Um, for that third ultrasound. Yep. On the Tuesday before I had a preeclampsia scare. Oh my gosh. I know. I'm like, we haven't even got to the birthing part yet. Um, so I, I just felt really dizzy and I took my blood pressure. My mom has a machine at home. and um Yeah, so it was really high for me and I sent a picture to my midwife and she knows that I have low blood pressure in pregnancy and she called me and she's like, I'm coming immediately to take your blood pressure. And I was like, oh, okay, great. That's where we're at. And it was really high again, it didn't go down. And she's like, I think we need to go to hospital for monitoring. Let's do the right thing. if this is pre-clamps, show you don't get to have a home birth anymore. And I'm like, yep. And I was actually okay at that point because I was so torn on what do I do for my, I wasn't ready to give up my home birth like emotionally, but for this IGR when like Addison, they said she had it and she came out totally fine. And I know that, you know, there's so many stories of the baby being too big and too small and all that ridiculousness. with ultrasounds and I'm just like, I don't want to blindly put my faith in this ultrasound. Yeah. So like if it was preeclampsia and I got that choice taken away from me, I was, I was okay with that. Yeah. Um, because then it became a medical situation. Yeah. Which is, and I think that's what, um, yeah, it's like such a common misconception about home birth that like, Oh, it's dangerous when you're putting yourself at risk and you're putting the baby at risk and blah, blah. We all know those stories. Um, but actually this like, you know, a wild pregnancy is different and, um, yes, I find those stories incredibly, incredibly empowering because there's so much noise that you have to tune out. But if you choose to have, um, uh, level of medical support during your pregnancy, like but the midwives are trained to like, it's like, you know, it's being monitored and if something medical does happen, it's not like the hospital is not an option. Like you can have the baby in the hospital. If there is an actual risk, a high risk to you, not just something that's like written in a research paper somewhere that 5% of all women and then it's just like, it's not individualized at all. But if there's an actual risk, like no one's saying, oh, I'm going to take this massive risk. So. No, no, exactly. And I am so risk adverse. Like I wasn't going to put myself in harm's way. Yeah. Just to avoid an induction or a caesarian or anything like that. Like, I'm not stupid. Yeah. Um, yes, so Yes, we had the, so we went into the hospital and they were looking at, you know, the ultrasound results and my monitoring and that all came back normal. My blood pressure was fine. Of course, by the time we got to the hospital and um. Oh, I had this OBG come to talk to me about induction and I was like, okay, here we go. Yeah. And, um, her reasoning for it was flawed in my opinion. It was specifically for the IEGR, um, issues. And um, not for the kidney issues. Whereas in my mind, IEGR is thrown around like, you know, like it's nothing these days. A true IEGR baby will show your MCAs and Dopplers failing long before you have a problem. A true IEGR baby will have been picked up at a morphology scan earlier. Like those babies are failure to thrive. The placenta doesn't make it. that far usually. I was 30, almost 38 weeks. Most IUGR babies are born at 34 to 37 weeks according to the research papers that I looked into. So I'm like, I am already past the danger zone for IUGR babies. This cannot be a true IUGR baby. Yeah. And her reasoning... Yeah, it was for the IGR and I was like, but what about kidneys? And she's like, oh, no, that's not really a big deal. I'm like, then what are we doing here? Yeah. Like you're holding me and I questioned, I spent 45 minutes questioning her. Yeah. My midwife was so impressed that I was asking her about all these procedures, all these policies I wanted a hands off if I was going to agree to an induction. I wanted to pull my own baby out. I wanted to birth my own placenta because I knew about my marginal cord. I was terrified of needing manual extraction because hospital policy is sinthosin and manual extract cord traction. And to me, I was just like, I'm going to end up in surgery anyway. I may as well sign up for a cesarean if I'm going to need that manually removed. She goes, Oh, you can't pull out your own baby. And I was like, I'm sorry. What? She's like, Oh, you're very noisy. Um, she goes, Oh yeah, you can't reach. And I was like, what, what? Oh, what do you mean? I was like, I'm sorry. Have you never touched your own vagina? Like what, what? Oh yeah. And she's like, no, you have to have a midwife delivery a baby. And I was like, I still can't even get over that. Like, I'm sorry. Have you never put a tampon in? Like, how do you not reach your own vagina? Oh my god. Like my belly's not that massive that it's in the way and you can go around like I'm not the size of a house. But like how are you also going to the toilet? And large women pull out their own babies all the time. That's right. How do you wipe? I didn't even think about that. Oh my god. Yeah it's just I was like what do you mean? What? It was the most effed up statement I have ever heard from a doctor this far. What? That's really sad actually because like it is it is. And she's a prominent doctor in Sydney. Yeah, like that's sad for her that she has this belief. But yes, all the women that like are under her care, that are disempowered. So you can't even touch your own vagina. She's yes. Yes. And I'm just, and she was just up there to cover, like they were short staffed. So my midwife was like, you're just wasting your time. She doesn't even know any of her hospital policies. So just let her go. Yeah. Um, and my midwife had to leave and in the end I ended up saying to her, because you couldn't, she couldn't give me the guarantee that I would be able to birth my own baby and pull out my own placenta. I said I'd decline induction at this point. She got really cranky and she left and we went home. And I went for a scan the next day. And I find cycling back to the Tamara thing, me stopping, listening to the podcast and clearing my mind of that space allowed me to take in the new information for the kidney and the IEGR and have the energy and the drive to fight against the hospital system. And the ridiculousness that is all of that. I just felt like... he was telling me you need to shut everything out, you need to hunker in and listen to me for, to prepare, to prepare for the birth and to find the courage in yourself to actually do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a really good point actually, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We had another ultrasound at Cessna the next day that came back matching the Maitland one. So ironically enough, I now had two good ultrasounds and one weird hinky one. Yeah, yeah, two out of three. Yeah. And I was like, great. I'm happy with that. We met with my midwife again. And she's like, because we saw Maitland, we need to sign a, not an against medical advice, but a risk of a risk assessment type thing. Okay. Yeah. So she typed up this massive document that basically said, here's the situation. Here's what's recommended by the hospital. Here's what our action plan is for the next week. And then we'll reassess in a week. And we signed that. So that we signed on like the Saturday before. Yep. Yeah. And my due date was the Tuesday. So we signed that on the Saturday. Yep. So I think I was at 39 and a half at this point and we were going to revisit on the Wednesday. So that was a week after the ultrasound, past the due day. I was very comfortable waiting to at least 40 and one till I saw her and got her opinion again. Cause I was like, I'm not even due yet. My placenta isn't failing. We can even then do another ultrasound later on. I guess through all of this, did you have any space to prepare your space for birth? Yes, yes, yes. So I hired a birth pool from this lady in Charlestown, or in Newcastle, who hires them out. I put up curtains, I had fairy lights. I had my dad help me set it all up and like pad the floor because we've got floorboards and everything And my mom had kept all these towels from my sister-in-law's home birth um, yeah, so I had just set that up and um, I'm not really an affirmation person. Yeah, um, so I didn't put anything like that up. I just knew I wanted a A white space a clear space Which is quite funny if you think about the birth pool vision being so like murky and I'm like, I want to remove as much visual noise as possible so I can just tune in to my space and just be here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I just, we have a little, what would be considered the kids rompus room and we've got that set up as like our little lounge room at the back of mum and dad's house. So that's where I set up the pool so I could have privacy. you know, if I wanted to be naked walking around, I didn't have to do it in the main lounge room and all of that stuff. And then I didn't want them, I didn't want mom and dad at the birth. Like I just wanted it to be Rob and me and my midwife. And so, yeah, mom and dad were obviously fine with that. Yeah. Yeah, so we were able to have that private space. Yeah, yeah. At the back of the house. Yeah, amazing. Yeah. And so when did you go into labor then? So, it's quite funny because I had an almost car accident on the Thursday, dropping my daughter from school and I had an almost, on the identical Thursday before she was born, had a car, ran a red light almost on a Thursday as well. The way their birth stories are was just so similar. It's so crazy. Yeah. Yeah, so had that and that freaked me out and I was just like, Oh my God, it's deja vu. Oh, it was wild. Anyway, so Monday morning woke up and I was like, well, I'm going to be pregnant for at least another week. There's no signs. I mean, I had been losing a little bit of my mucus plug here and there, but it was so little and just like the slightest hint of pink. I was like, no, nothing. Nothing is. You know, it's obviously regenerating every time. Yeah. Um, I started to put paint stripper on this bookshelf and, um, I, the project that I'd wanted to do before we even moved up here and I'd put it off all pregnancy and at 39 and six was like the best day to start doing that, obviously. And it was one, you had to wait an hour because it was like a slightly safer one. Yeah, yeah. So I put it on and then was sitting on the couch out in the family room, like the main lounge room, eating my lunch and mom was leaving for work. Yeah. And it was like 10 past or eight past two. And she left and I was sitting there and I was like, oh, I hate this couch so much. It's so uncomfortable. Wouldn't it be so funny if my waters broke all over it and you couldn't fix it? Not even two minutes later, I felt this huge release of pressure and I thought I'd peed myself so I ran down to our bathroom, dripping the whole way and then once I finally relaxed in the toilet, in the toilet little room, it was just this massive puddle at my floor and my husband was working from home and I was like, room, room! And he thought he came running out. He thought I was actually like giving a birth. And I was like, my hair broke. Oh my God. And, um, yeah, it's funny cause he's in a meeting at the time and I'm like hysterical and I was like, oh my God, oh my God. And I fully expected contractions to start and, um, I cleaned myself up, got changed and I was like, okay, I'm going to pick up Addison from school because you know, school finishes at three. So it's about 45 minutes before. Yeah. And, um, I called my midwife. who was on the phone getting another opinion about the ultrasounds and everything. Yeah. And she didn't answer the phone, so I texted her and I was like, my water broke. And she's like, oh cool, I can hang up. We don't need your opinion. She's in labor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yep, she called me. I sent her pictures of everything. And she's like, right, pick up Addy. I will come to you, take your blood pressure. Like, you know, game on now. We'll see where we're at. And... Yeah, go from there. And so I picked up Addison crying my eyes out the whole way, realizing that this is probably the last time I'm ever gonna pick her up from school without a baby. Took her for ice cream, went to McDonald's every time. It's so funny, every time I coughed or sneezed, and I had more fluid going on, so I was sitting in this puddle in the driver's seat. I know it was so gross. She had no idea. Yeah, and so then my midwife came and Addison got to listen to the heartbeat. And my midwife was like, I'm gonna go home. It was like six or 5.30 PM or something like that. She's like, I'm gonna sleep. Call me, don't text me. Call me when you need me. And that was it. We just went to bed and I woke up the next morning and I was like, I'm still effing pregnant. Yeah. Nothing happened. And, um, called her and was like, yeah, so nothing's happened. She's like, yeah, I woke up and was like, oh, I had a good night's sleep. Yeah. Um, yeah. And then so dropped Addison at the school and, um, thankfully my husband was at home because, you know, he told his team, yep, her waters have broken. We're on standby now. I'm going to work from home until things happen. So. I was very comfortable waiting longer this time. So I think I waited 16 hours before I was finally hooked up with Addison. And by the time labor started, it was about 20 hours after my waters had broken. I was comfortable waiting about 48 hours this time. Obviously if the fluid was still clean and I was, there's no weird smells and I'm not taking any baths and all that stuff. Um, so I put paint stripper on the shelf again after dropping her at school and I was like, I'm going to go for a walk. And it was about 20 past 10 in the morning and I had a tiny little twinge around the corner from my house and I was like, yes, it's happening. Things are happening. I'm going to give, make this walk the best walk I've ever done. And I got, um, a bit further on and I had my first contraction, like actual contraction. And I fell to the floor again. And I was sitting there and I said out loud, cause I was alone on this walk. And I'm like, Oh no, this was the wrong choice. Because in my mind, I was like, Oh, it just, you know, it's a little easing and you know, that classic story of like they ramp up and no, this was me unable to stand. on the floor, on the road, outside my like a neighbor's house being like, oh crap. Yeah. Oh my God. And like breathing through it. And she came out and she's like, are you OK? I'm like, yeah, I'm good. Just in labor. Don't mind me. Called Rob, being like, you need to come and get me immediately. Like, I'm having contractions. So he's rushed out. He's been in a meeting again, obviously. Yeah, yeah. rushed out, got in the car, had another one immediately as he went to take off. And I was like, stop this damn car because the forces with zero fluid as you take off in the car was so intense with a contraction. I still remember that feeling to this day. Oh, it was crazy. Um, yeah. Walked into the house, sat on the toilet. Mom's like, that was a quick walk. And I'm like, yep, I'm in clay bar. And she's like, Oh, okay, cool. Um, sitting on the toilet and I was crying through these contractions already. And to me, that was almost a failure. I was like, I'm three contractions in to the start of labor, which is how long could labor possibly be? You know? And I'm already not coping. Oh, crap. I can't do this. Yeah. And I my bow is emptied on the toilet, which I was so thrilled about. Yeah. Like, I don't have to worry about this at all anymore. Yeah. texted my midwife and was like, I'm crying. Um, do I put my tens machine on? And she's like, absolutely. Yeah. Um, and that was about 20 to 11. So it had only been 20 minutes. If that, um, yep. So put it on and Rob's like, I'm going to start filling up the pool. And I'm like, no, it's too early. Because the lady with the pool had told me, if you don't open the line, you can get $70 back. Yeah, I know. So I'm like, I need my $70 back. And Rob's like, are you, let go of the fucking $70. I was like, what is... Yeah. And I was like, it's too early, it's too early. He's like, it's not too early. Because he knew it would take like an hour to fill this pool. So I got the big one, I assumed that I would want him in there with me. Yeah. And I was over the couch, like in between contractions, trying to help him fit the liner to the pool. Cause he'd opened it. He's like, he's like, I'm doing it. And I was like, all right, well, I don't have the energy to fight you on this because it's too late. I can't do the liner back up. I'll just go with it. We're setting up the pool. And I'd get a part of the liner on and then I'd have to lean over the side of the couch, breathing with the tens machine on through contractions. Thank God mom was home and I'm like crying. I've got a photo of me that I sent to my girlfriend, tears streaming down my face going, it's happening. Yeah. Oh, I just, I'm, I don't do pain. I have such a low pain threshold. Um, my win by, I thought it was hysterical every time she would be like, we're going to take bloods today, get your numbing cream out. And I would numb my. vein so she could take blood. Yeah. Wow. So I don't do pain. Yeah. So my mom's trying to help set up the pool while I'm crying. And then I was like, I need to lay down. I need, I need, I can't do this anymore. So he took me to the bed and he's rushing out to finish setting up the pool between contractions. Yeah. And then I started sleeping, lying down on the bed between contractions. And now I realized that that's transition. So that was like, what? Quarter past 11 at this point in the morning. So only not that much longer at all. And I was asleep and I would make a noise when each contraction started and he would run back in, help me sit up, lean over him on the bed with a towel underneath me. And I would have my contraction and I would lay back down and go to sleep. And he would rush out and keep filling up the pool. And yeah, and then... Cause I texted my midwife before then she was like, I'm an hour away cause she was at the park with her little boy. And I said to her, I don't think I'll make an hour. Like emotionally, I knew I needed her. I wasn't dealing with it. Yeah. And um, she was like doing like a one 30 on the freeway being like, you can't get arrested if you're helping a woman in labor, right? Cause she's like a solid 45 minute drive. Yeah. By the time her husband came home to like, look after her boy. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, and she knew she was gonna be an hour. She got there. She's like, told me the second would get there first. Yeah. So when I opened my eyes on the bed, because she touched my shoulder and I thought it was my second midwife. Yeah. Fully expecting to see her. And it was her and I just relaxed so much. I was like, oh my God, thank God you're here. Yeah, wow. Thank God, because I was safe now. Yeah. It was safe to give birth. I could do it. Um, I knew I just couldn't do it on my own. Um, I still remember that it was such a physical, palpable feeling of relief. Like the whole atmosphere shifted. Yeah. Um, when she got there and when I knew that she was there and I had just had, or just about to have this super massive contraction on the bed still, and my body started pushing and I looked at her and I said, something's wrong. And she's like, what's wrong? And I'm like, he's coming, he's coming. I'm pushing. He's like, he's there. He's too high. I could feel where he was. And, um, and I was like, if I, in my mind, if I'm give birth on this bed, I'm going to tear six ways to Sunday kind of thing because the force was so intense. And she goes, yep, get in the pool. And I said, I can't, I can't move. I don't want to take the tense machine off. I'm terrified. This was my only uh, relief from the pain was to put this, use this tense machine. And she's like, I'll help you. So she basically like pushed me to the pool and like ripped off the tens and like pushed me in the pool. Like if I'd fallen in the head first, I wouldn't have been surprised. I found out later, she gave herself an electric shock cause she touched the pads because we were, she was so, uh, get Sarah in the pool. Yeah. that she just forgot that the TENS machine was on and knew that we couldn't get in with it on. So she just, yeah, she shocked herself, which the poor thing. And then she felt the pool and she's like, Oh crap, it's cold. So her and Robert were bucketing water out, running to my mom to ask for buckets from the laundry, bucketing water into the bath as the pool was then putting hot water back in. Thank God we have instant gas. Yeah. And she put the hose on my back, which was amazing. Amazing. That hot water while I was in the pool on my back was, oh, that in itself should be a labor trick. Yeah. Because it was like being in the shower, but in the pool. Yeah. And you've got the addition of like the buoyancy as well in the pool. Yes. I remember them feeling the bucketing out and that annoyed me to no end. It was so frustrating. Yeah. Cause the movement of getting the bucket of water out would make me, um, move like I was on a boat. Yeah. And I just, I remember in my mind being like, it's all right, just ignore it. Like they, we need to lower the water. Otherwise the water will be too high and it's too cold and you just have to deal with it. Yeah. And um, yeah. So when I got in the pool, it was about 12 o'clock. Yeah. So she'd been there for about 10 minutes at that point. if give or take by the time she's you know set herself up brushed in yeah grabbed everything from the car and all that jazz and um yeah and i was just laboring in the pool while they're still trying to bucket cold water out and um put more in and um my husband says i screamed through every contraction but thankfully my midwife says i didn't she said you weren't quiet yeah but i was vocal yeah and i was like yeah the movement the intensity has to go somewhere. Yeah. And yeah, like you don't have to be quiet. It's like, no, you don't. But I, yeah, I resent the fact I was screaming though. I was not screaming. I was just vocal. There's a difference. Yeah. I was hunched over the seat in the pool. I just didn't really move apart from those contractions while they're moving around me. Yeah. I was about 12, I didn't realize my midwife had put a mirror underneath me. Okay, yep. And I had, it was just after I had this insane contraction and I felt him move three to four centimeters. Wow. I don't know, it was 10 minutes prior. Yeah, yeah. So I felt him move about 12, 30-ish, several centimeters down the canal and I roared. I roared. in that contraction, it was insane. I still remember that one so vividly. And and then there was this lull and Rob was a little bit panicky. He's like, oh, my goodness, like it's been 10 minutes without a contraction. We've set up the pool. She's in the pool. We've stopped her labor. Yeah, OK. I knew, but I wasn't talking, obviously, at the time. And I knew that everything was OK. And my midwife knew everything was OK. And then I kind of sat back. I just didn't have, I knew his head was right there. No, I just remember feeling for his head and I was like, great, he's right there. I'll just wait till I have that next contraction. Yeah. And yeah, she didn't even realize that he was that close to the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She could see like a tiny peak of head but didn't realize that he was right there. Due to the kidney issues, I had agreed to 15 minute heartbeat checks. Okay, yeah. As a preventative if he started going down we had no idea what the kidney Was going to present In labor like would he get distressed and all of that especially since my waters had already broken He didn't have any of that protection. Yeah from the intensity of the contractions and I Started breathe pushing it was like a deep a deep push Less intense like It was so different compared to the contractions of when the process of moving the baby down the canal and into the pelvis and all of that. I was able to just breathe push as opposed to my body doing the fetal ejection reflex for me. I think he would have come out on his own had I just waited. But I was like, okay, well, we're having a contraction. I'll give it a push. He's right there. And I knew that I could get his head out in one go. I don't know why. I just. I just knew it could be done. He was right at that exit. He could just pop out. Yeah. And I didn't have enough space. I was still so hunched over, almost sitting like with my bum on the floor. Yeah. And so I let back to give myself more space in my perineum and I was supporting my own perineum because he just felt that little bit stuck. And I just kind of. push that little bit more and his head just popped out. Wow. And that was wild. That was, yeah. So that was the one out, head out in one push essentially. Cause I didn't really stop. Yeah. I just waited, I felt his shoulders rotate inside me, which was quite funny because that, the lady, the OBG who was like, you can't pull your own baby out was also going on about shoulder dystocia and how. dangerous it is and I was like, yes, it is a dangerous situation. But if I'm on my back in labor, yes, there's a very high chance my baby's shoulder is going to get stuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just knew I'm like, no, like the baby has seven pivotal movements to get out of your body and shoulder rotation is one of those movements. And I vividly felt so it's his he was his face was looking to my right side and in, and his body was curled around the left part of my body, like in pregnancy. So his, his right shoulder was at the front of my pelvis. So I vividly remember feeling that shoulder rotate around to align with the birth canal so that he could come out and I just breathed him out and his whole body was out on that next push. And that was about two minutes. So head out. Yeah. And from, yeah, so head out at 1240, body out at 1242. Oh my gosh. And then he was out and that was it. So from the first like contraction, I guess, like how, how would you like, what duration? First, yeah, so we say two hours because that first little twinge about 20 past 10, or 1030 ish was more of a Braxton Hinks, a little bit more intense. That first very, I'm in contraction labor was I called my husband at 10.38. Yeah. And he was out at 12.42. So it was pretty much two hours from start to finish. Yeah. I didn't have time to think about anything. Yeah. My labor. I wanted to put a different bra on one that had buttons so that I could open it. I wanted to do my hair differently. Yeah. Nope. I was just in that space. Yeah. Absolutely. And, um, like what, So you were in the pool, did you give birth to the placenta in the pool? How did that all go? Yes. So my husband had to get in the pool afterwards and support me. His cord was really short and I, one of the first things I said to my midwife was like, I'm pretty sure I tore my clitoris. And she's like, it's okay, it's going to be all right. Yeah. And I was just so in that. pain space. She had to remind me to say hello to him. She's like, say hi to your baby and like, wake him up. And I was like, oh, oh yeah, I have a baby. Cause I was just consumed with that pain. Yes. So he was in there to support me and help hold the baby up out of the water. Yeah. So it's a bit, the water was a bit high. The cord was a bit short. And I wanted that natural physiological process. and I wanted the cord attached and everything. And we were there for about an hour and I was having these very painful, intense contractions. And if anyone listening to this, the placenta doesn't feel like another baby, much to my surprise. I really thought I would have that same pressure because I had that manual placental management in hospital. Yeah. I really thought it would feel like another baby and it really doesn't. No. It just, it doesn't feel like anything. Yeah. You just have these contractions and I had such intense back pain. Um, and my midwife was like, that's there it is. That's the percentage has fallen off the wall and is sitting at the bottom of your. Yeah. And so it was finally about an almost an hour later and I, the cord was giving me so much grief and he was feeding and I was having these ridiculous contractions and she's like, what do you want to do? And I'm like, I want to cut the cord. I'm done. I can't. birthless placenta, I can't hold the baby up out of the water properly to even push out this placenta. I want a guide and support myself. I know I've torn. Yeah. Oh, I feel like I've torn. I'm sore. Cut it. So we did. Yeah. And I was able to move aside. So my husband did skin to skin with Quentin and I birthed the placenta in the pool and I was really scared. I, I let that OBG. and the fear of the cord detaching get in my head a little bit. So my midwife did gentle cord traction and she felt it. And when we, when we felt it engage, um, in the cervix, I was like, great, I can push it out now. And, um, she was almost just guiding it while I pushed and it got a little bit stuck. So my cervix had started to close around the placenta. So I'm so glad I trusted her. because the last thing I'd want to have to do is transfer for placenta again. Yeah. And then that was it. So we discovered that I actually had a velomentous called insertion. Is that like where it's on the side? On the edge? Yeah. So the, you've got the normal one in the middle. The marginal was where it's just touching right on the edge. And the velomentous is where it's in the membranes itself, not attached to the placenta. So That just reaffirmed my decision even more to have that home birth. Yeah. Because I would have a hundred percent, and my midwife agrees, needed manual extraction of that placenta for the filamentous cord. And she's got a beautiful video on her Instagram page and in my birth video as well. Yeah. Exploring the placenta and just looking at those beautiful, like, arteries and veins across the membranes. Yeah, wow. Yeah. And apparently it's quite a small percentile, which accounts for a slightly smaller baby. Yep. And to me he was skinnier, I guess because he wasn't puffy with fluid, like Addison would have been. And I was like, he's gotta be smaller. He's gotta be smaller. But he was 3.18 kilos. So he was actually larger, which was crazy to me. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So I guess that's- That's kind of it. That's the birth of Quinton. Yeah. So we moved to the bed and I didn't end up tearing. I had grazes. Yeah. So I had lateral grazes from his ears kind of down the inside of the vagina. And she said, that's what was giving you so much grief was the, the cord rubbing against those, you know, like when you graze your knee, like that's kind of what happened and a tiny little rip from his nose in my, at the end of my perineum. But. I was like, no stitches. That was my goal. It was like no stitching. The stitches gave me so much grief with Addison last time. They got infected. It was horrible. But I guess the moral of the story is you can't, well, at least you didn't rip your clitoris. No, I did not rip that. Thank God, because I was like... Again, I was like, this is the wrong choice. I've ruined everything. I've ruined my clitoris. Yeah. And so she's like looking at me on the bed and she's like, I don't see anything. And I was like, what do you mean? You don't see anything. She's like, no, there's like no bleeding. There's tiny little marks. That's it. Cause I made her inspect my tear before birth as well. I was so paranoid of tearing where with the existing scar. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. I guess like looking back on, you know, the past. I guess you could like say seven years of your pregnancy learning journey, everything that education, the whole thing with, um, like the whole experience with Addison, how do you, how do you like perceive birth now? You know, obviously it took you almost six years to overcome that experience really. Yeah. Well, I felt amazing afterwards. Like You really do get that birth high. I was running that birth high for a full month. Yeah. Um, and just the recovery as well. Like I didn't even feel like I'd given birth a week. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Like it was wild. Um, yeah, I just feel so a little sad. I won't be doing it again. That too is enough for me. I just don't do pregnancy or like newborn stage very well. Um, and it's so empowering to be like. you can have different options and just hearing the stories of these women who have similar stories to my experience with Addison and they feel so disempowered and neglected and alone. And I'm like, you don't, it doesn't have to be that way. Even if you still want to give birth in hospital, I'm like the continuing, I can't even say that word, the continuous care. provided from my midwife. I didn't have to see a GP. She can write prescriptions relevant to pregnancy for me. She can write all my ultrasound referrals. I didn't need to see a doctor the entire time. And the extra care afterwards has shaped that postpartum experience to be so different this time round. It's just been amazing. And the universe works in such... mysterious ways because a year ago I couldn't have imagined standing here talking to you about my home fair, holding my baby, like it's so wild. It is. Thank you so much, Sarah. Thank you for having me. Of course.